Character Discussion Thread

[Lilfut]

I just want a Cave Story trophy or music at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a feeling trophy or music assets are probably a lump sum payment, since it can be argued those don't make a large effect on sales. (Nobody is buying the game because a song from Culdcept is in it.)

But for characters, it's probably a lump sum and then a percentage of the back end residual, because characters can make or break sales, especially when the thing that is being sold is an individual DLC character.

Culdcept 3DS was published by Nintendo. Think that may have contributed to the trophy and music?

 

[BravadoMan_13]

Snake is the only 3rd Party DLC character I can see happening and that's just because he's lucky enough to be a veteran.

I definitely agree with you here. I don't see anymore third party characters being added after Snake DLC (if it happens). Though I wouldn't mind some other third party characters such as Rayman or Bomberman.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm well aware to expect the worst general outcome in case I'm wrong anyway. :U
If I'm wrong, then I'll just shrug and tell myself "I predicted wrong", and question Nintendo on why they didn't really take advantage of the opportunity.

 

[vaanrose]

Culdcept 3DS was published by Nintendo. Think that may have contributed to the trophy and music?

Probably. To be honest I don't know the first thing about Culdcept.

 

[AEMehr]

On Golden Sun: I think it's safe to say the series is dead. The last game came out like 4 years or so ago and we haven't heard anything of it since. It didn't sell well, review scores were poor and most people didn't care for it. The game ended on a big cliffhanger so another one should have come out by now. Issac is a character who's chances were overstated this time. It's more of a hold out from the Brawl days and I think some of the youngerster who are coming up in Smash today won't know why the old timers want Issac. Golden Sun came out in 2001, about 13 years ago. If we say the average Smash player today is 16-20, then they would have been 3-7 when the games came out. They may not know why it was awesome. I will suggest that if you've never played the first two Golden Sun games, get an emulator and go play them.

On another note, it looks like they are going to keep patching the game with a balance patch coming out. It seems that Sakurai and his team are more dedicated to post release content. We already know of some stuff being added after release but there is a patch to drop sometime this month as well. So I don't think it's Mewtwo and done, but there seems like there will be more. Mewtwo may be important because he's a promotion for buying both games. They may announce more content in spring as part of a direct.

As for character, I don't expect them to do too many, and that's fine. The roster is very big, it just has some other issues like series diversity and the lack of veterans. I think fixing that can be done with, say, 6 characters. Bringing back Mewtwo plus Lucas, Wolf and Ice Climbers will work the best and will be the easiest since these characters were all in Brawl. For additions, Vaanrose has the right idea. I think a Rhythm Heaven character and Dixie Kong will be the best. There aren't a lot of other characters who would feel like they should be in. Well, besides Ridley, but we all know how that will go. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they do this like Mario Kart 8 and make packs. It will encourage people to buy more. Some people may not want to shell out money for a veteran or Dixie and Chorus Kinds (unless they are very unique). Just my thoughts.

I'm not one to beat a dead horse, but four years without any news regarding a franchise means it's dead?
When the previous title came out seven years after the first one??

The franchise isn't dead because we haven't heard much about it, besides Camelot has stated that they're perfectly fine with making another Golden Sun if people ask for it. Unlike Fire Emblem, which was going down if it didn't meet sales regardless.

Yes? (But I don't expect "lotsa" DLC, just probably around 10-15) That's honestly how I feel. With the bigger team has for "Smash 6", there should be at least be less stress when developing newcomers. Now I feel more wary of my choices.

lot
pronoun: informal

1. a large number or amount; a great deal.

If that isn't a lot I don't know what is. We're not getting 10 characters, we'll be lucky if we even get five.
Two is a safe bet and, in my opinion, the most likely scenario.

 

[Kalimdori]

I'm seeing tons of claims by tons of people (Me included) of "Sakurai would have done this", or "Nintendo wouldn't do this", "this can't happen", "we can't get X many characters Y amount of reasons"

And I'm insulting myself as well by saying this is rather foolish of us.

We have no idea what is going on at Namco Bandai. We don't know what Sakurai's plans are for DLC. We don't know if they are only going to add Mewtwo and that's it, or if they will continue to make content for this game throughout it's lifespan. We don't know what is entailed in the agreements for third party characters and how much Nintendo/Sakurai is willing to go to get them, or if they are willing at all.

And yet some people here are talking as if they are part of the marketing/development team for Smash Bros.

Nearly everything we are claiming is assumptions. They are based off of facts and quotes from Sakurai, yes, (Though the two aren't always synonymous) but the conclusions are assumptions. Sakurai has gone against many things that the Smash community has considered "facts" in the past.

 

[Deleted member]

In other words, we should take the attitude that literally anything can happen because we don't know everything and should ignore anything we're told because Sakurai could just be trolling and do a complete 180 for no reason other than to troll us.


In that case, I hope I can have my wildest dream of playing as Godzilla in Smash come true.

 

[Rockaphin]

Nearly everything we are claiming is assumptions. They are based off of facts and quotes from Sakurai, yes, (Though the two aren't always synonymous) but the conclusions are assumptions. Sakurai has gone against many things that the Smash community has considered "facts" in the past.

Sakurai does indeed contradict himself. If we followed everything he said in the past, we would have to assume Ridley has almost no chance of being playable. Same with an Animal Crossing character. Sure we can use his past quotes as guidance, but that does not mean that it will remain a fact for sure which opens the imaginary door called speculation.

For some, this is Hell.

 

[Deleted member]

I love how people treat "changing his mind after years between development times of separate projects" as "contradicting".

It's as if people like to throw that word out without fully understanding what they're saying.


Here's a challenge: Someone give me a list of at least 10 legitimate contradictions (as in, I am unable to point how they're not contradictions).

 

[Rockaphin]

I love how people treat "changing his mind after years between development times of separate projects" as "contradicting".

It's as if people like to throw that word out without fully understanding what they're saying.

Contradicting can mean, "be in conflict with." or "assert the opposite of a statement made."

Removing a character because, "it does not seem plausible for them to fight" or, "wasn't suited for battle" in a previous installment of the same series and later adding them in the next seems contrary to me. Which goes back to, "anything can change!"

 

[Deleted member]

Contradicting can mean, "be in conflict with." or "assert the opposite of a statement made."

Removing a character because, "it does not seem plausible for them to fight" or, "wasn't suited for battle" in a previous installment of the same series and later adding them in the next seems contrary to me. Which goes back to, "anything can change!"

It's only contradictory if he had the same viewpoint and still added Villager anyway. Or denied Villager again for the same reason but added Wii Fit Trainer despite being within the same category of "not plausible for them to fight". Changing a viewpoint is not being contradictory. Or is anyone who has ever changed their mind on a subject guilty of contradiction now?

Now, you clearly don't understand the context of this whole discussion.
Read the previous page starting from here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-character-discussion-thread.347464/page-1544#post-17981297
And try to honestly tell me your "anything can change" about Sakurai's quotes legitimately applies to what is exactly being said.

 

[Rockaphin]

It's only contradictory if he had the same viewpoint and still added Villager anyway. Or denied Villager again for the same reason but added Wii Fit Trainer despite being within the same category of "not plausible for them to fight". Changing a viewpoint is not being contradictory.

Sakurai's new viewpoint is contrary to his previous viewpoint.

Now, you clearly don't understand the context of this whole discussion.
Read the previous page starting from here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-character-discussion-thread.347464/page-1544#post-17981297
And try to honestly tell me your "anything can change" about Sakurai's quotes legitimately applies to what is exactly being said.

I read it and I agree, but my "anything can change!" quote has nothing to do with that discussion. If so, I would've replied to that quote or someone that replied to that. I did not though, I only replied to the last segment of another user's quote.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think you may be expecting a little too much.
"Regular" Smash DLC honestly does not seem reasonable considering the amount of work involved with just a single character (especially when considering that it's more than just the character itself that needs to be taken into account).

I can see like maybe one or two more after Mewtwo, but anything over that is overshooting.

I can see upwards of 6 or so, depending on what they do with it. I can imagine 1 new character (MAYBE 2) in six months, along with one returning character. I don't anticipate more than 2 DLC packs, but I could see them doing more in the future. I don't expect 6 characters specifically; I do expect about 4 or so, and I expect the DLC packs to be released approximately six months apart and include more content.

Such content could include stages (maybe 1 or 2), expansions to existing modes (perhaps 5 Event Matches), and maybe 20 trophies or so. I don't think the DLC packs will just be a single character (except Mewtwo), but its also possible they'll release separate forms of DLC. Nintendo's policy on DLC tends to be big packs, though, rather than individual items. Do note that I said "could include," I think the DLC packs would include more content, but what exactly would be picked, I don't know.


I could see "regular" Smash DLC happening to extend the length of the game, but I do not necessarily see it happening. The absolute max I can see DLC going is up to two years after release. I only expect 1 year, though, like with MK8. But I definitely think any DLC packs will be on-par with the MK8 and Hyrule Warriors packs.


EDIT: As for third-parties:
I don't see third-party DLC characters happening at all. Nintendo has plenty of their own characters and games to add and promote.


EDIT 2: Perhaps saying "expect" isn't the right term here. What I mean is, I think it'd probably happen this way.

 

[Andinus]

lotsa is obviously 30-40. And I don't expect that amount like I said before, I'm really not sure where you are going with this. I say 10-15 mostly because of Nintendo and it's marketing to keep people's interest going with post-release content. (Assuming they are in separate character DLC packs.)

10-15, is a lot. I don't think it's gonna happen, and honestly, I don't want it to. Mainly because I think with that many additions there is a high probability it could break the game. Not that it couldn't be done, but it would take a TON of time and effort to get it right, and it just doesn't seem like a feasible endeavor that Sakurai would undertake. I think we should expect 1-2 more if any, and 4 as an absolute max.

 

[JaidynReiman]

10-15, is a lot. I don't think it's gonna happen, and honestly, I don't want it to. Mainly because I think with that many additions there is a high probability it could break the game. Not that it couldn't be done, but it would take a TON of time and effort to get it right, and it just doesn't seem like a feasible endeavor that Sakurai would undertake. I think we should expect 1-2 more if any, and 4 as an absolute max.

I keep seeing this 10-15 number flying around. Who first mentioned it? I missed that one.


I definitely think 10-15 is too high. I see 2-4, 6 at max. And the DLC packs can be padded out with other content, too.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I agree with Golden and False Sense here. Our third party lineup is JUST FINE.

 

[SmashChu]

I'm not one to beat a dead horse, but four years without any news regarding a franchise means it's dead?
When the previous title came out seven years after the first one??

The franchise isn't dead because we haven't heard much about it, besides Camelot has stated that they're perfectly fine with making another Golden Sun if people ask for it. Unlike Fire Emblem, which was going down if it didn't meet sales regardless..

The interviewer you posted was in 2012 and we're at the end of 2014. Dark Dawn ended on a cliffhanger, so a sequel should have come out by now. I think it's safe to say the series is dead. It's not just the number of years it's been dormant but also weak sales and not even a lot of interest from fans.

At the end of the day, Issac wont be in Smash as there isn't enough interest in Golden Sun in general.

 

[Burruni]

I keep seeing this 10-15 number flying around. Who first mentioned it? I missed that one.


I definitely think 10-15 is too high. I see 2-4, 6 at max. And the DLC packs can be padded out with other content, too.

That was BluePikmin11. "Yes? (But I don't expect "lotsa" DLC, just probably around 10-15). That's honestly how I feel."

My stance is, including Mewtwo, I see 3-6. Namely because of the wild uproar due to the cut of the Brawl semi-clones who I believe would be less overall work (Completed Brawl data and the characters with whom they share some base moves as resources, unlike Mewtwo).

Icies are a matter of if the team can figure out a way to get them to work on the 3DS, since they are basically handled on the WiiU version as far as we know. As they may be more "free" to work on them as a project in the DLC stage of work, it may become a priority and we have a situation that allowed Olimar and RosaLuma to work come up and save them for this installment.

Newcomers, 1 maybe 2 if we're lucky is the hopeful fan situation.

 

[False Sense]

I keep seeing this 10-15 number flying around. Who first mentioned it? I missed that one.


I definitely think 10-15 is too high. I see 2-4, 6 at max. And the DLC packs can be padded out with other content, too.

BluePikmin11. He said that he doesn't expect "lotsa" DLC characters; only about 10-15.

 

[JaidynReiman]

That was BluePikmin11. "Yes? (But I don't expect "lotsa" DLC, just probably around 10-15). That's honestly how I feel."

My stance is, including Mewtwo, I see 3-6. Namely because of the wild uproar due to the cut of the Brawl semi-clones who I believe would be less overall work (Completed Brawl data and the characters with whom they share some base moves as resources, unlike Mewtwo).

Icies are a matter of if the team can figure out a way to get them to work on the 3DS, since they are basically handled on the WiiU version as far as we know. As they may be more "free" to work on them as a project in the DLC stage of work, it may become a priority and we have a situation that allowed Olimar and RosaLuma to work come up and save them for this installment.

Newcomers, 1 maybe 2 if we're lucky is the hopeful fan situation.

10-15 IS "lotsa" DLC. I can see 10 only if Nintendo decides to add DLC characters up to two years after the game is released, and we get 4 returning characters (Roy [I DO NOT expect him at all, but he'd be far more likely to come back from Melee than Young Link/Pichu], Wolf, Lucas, IC's).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think 6-8 is possible assuming it ends up being something like a pack that features, say, Mewtwo, Wolf, Lucas, Ice Climbers (only in the very unlikely event that they finally managed to get them to work on the 3DS, which I don't expect at all), Roy and a couple of newcomer semi-clone characters. Or maybe my number is being unrealistic. Also, unique newcomers aren't characters that needs to be made from scratch, but Sakurai would also want them to have their own cinematic trailer like all the unique newcomers in this game so that's something to keep in mind, so I wouldn't expect that many unique newcomcers. In fact, personally, I don't expect any unique newcomers.

Regardless, I still expect the actual DLC to end up disappointing people with very high expectations.

 

[Burruni]

So, here is the list of Assist Trophies in Brawl that have not been present in the 3DS version. Not sure about which ones are Wii U Exclusive.

1. Barbara The Bat (Still a trophy)
2. ExciteBikes
3. Helirin
4. Isaac
5. Jill Dozer
6. Ray MK III
7. Gray Fox (3rd Party from a series dropped from SSB)
8. Little Mac ()

Of the remaining 7, the only ones with the remote hope of the Little Mac treatment of becoming playable are Isaac and Ray with little room for argument. I don't personally see either happening but I believe Isaac would have a better chance than Ray.

 

[YoshiandToad]

What if Mewtwo was the only DLC character?

I know I'm late to the party(and I only just realised this thread was back), but I'd be slightly surprised Nintendo weren't pushing the boat out further when they've set Smash up o be a big old money spinner with the Amiibos, and now Mewtwo DLC. Only slightly though.

That being said; Mewtwo was the only character I could see being DLC, since he's one of the few nearly everyone would happily pay to get back.

Third parties I see as pretty dang unlikely due to(as you stated), the legal hoops of which they'd need to leap through.

I'm also having a hard time seeing them bringing back all the veterans even through DLC. Whilst Wolf seems relatively likely(popular, not too hard to implement since Fox and Falco's bases are there, etc) I highly doubt Young Link, even with Majora's Mask's remake; the mask gimmick is an absolute ball ache from a dev point of view going by Pokemon Trainer in Brawl, and bringing him back in his Melee state would be the most pointless inclusion ever. Very few would probably bother buying a character they already have twice essentially.

Promotional characters for new game releases? I'd like to say I'd see that happening, what with Captain Toad being a prime candidate for cross promotion, but the sheer amount of time it takes to make a new character and balance them, by the time they're implemented the game will be out and most likely already seen as a success, a flop or something in between.

I guess it's probably best to be sensible regarding DLC. I don't see a reason for Ice Climbers to come back(them technical difficulties), nor Ridley(huge NPC inclusion) nor many other popular characters to be included this time round as DLC.

 

[BluePikmin11]

There you go, I boiled it down to 10 choices, it was pretty to eliminate some characters with a logical point of view.
It's really 8 choices if 3DS limitations still become an issue.

10-15, is a lot. I don't think it's gonna happen, and honestly, I don't want it to. Mainly because I think with that many additions there is a high probability it could break the game. Not that it couldn't be done, but it would take a TON of time and effort to get it right, and it just doesn't seem like a feasible endeavor that Sakurai would undertake. I think we should expect 1-2 more if any, and 4 as an absolute max.

With Namco Bandai, I think the game will have very minimal balance problems, and if a major imbalance comes up, then it can be simply be fixed in a small patch.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There you go, I boiled it down to 10 choices, it was pretty to eliminate some characters with a logical point of view.
It's really 8 choices if 3DS limitations still become an issue.

Remove Young Link and Professor Layton and you'll have a more realistic choice of DLC characters. Even though I would like to see Snake back, I still can't justify seeing him as likely, so removing him from your DLC prediction would also make sense. Outside of those, the DLC roster prediction is plausible.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think 6-8 is possible assuming it ends up being something like a pack that features, say, Mewtwo, Wolf, Lucas, Ice Climbers (only in the very unlikely event that they finally managed to get them to work on the 3DS, which I don't expect at all), Roy and a couple of newcomer semi-clone characters. Or maybe my number is being unrealistic. Also, unique newcomers aren't characters that needs to be made from scratch, but Sakurai would also want them to have their own cinematic trailer like all the unique newcomers in this game so that's something to keep in mind, so I wouldn't expect that many unique newcomcers. In fact, personally, I don't expect any unique newcomers.

Regardless, I still expect the actual DLC to end up disappointing people with very high expectations.

I disagree with the notion of not expecting new "unique" newcomers. The thing is, if all the newcomers were clones, they would not be popular at all. I can see some being semiclones, but I can't see any direct clones being added as DLC. Direct Clones are added to pad out the roster, but for DLC when they don't have to worry about time constraints, there is no reason for Direct clones to exist. And even Semiclones I think would be put alongside unique newcomers, too.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I disagree with the notion of not expecting new "unique" newcomers. The thing is, if all the newcomers were clones, they would not be popular at all. I can see some being semiclones, but I can't see any direct clones being added as DLC. Direct Clones are added to pad out the roster, but for DLC when they don't have to worry about time constraints, there is no reason for Direct clones to exist. And even Semiclones I think would be put alongside unique newcomers, too.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect semi-clone newcomers to be sold separately at all, but rather as extras, being part of a DLC pack similar to Tanooki Mario and Cat Peach- for example, getting a pack that includes Wolf, Lucas and then one semi-clone newcomer.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect semi-clone newcomers to be sold separately at all, but rather as extras, being part of a DLC pack similar to Tanooki Mario and Cat Peach- for example, getting a pack that includes Wolf, Lucas and then one semi-clone newcomer.

Yeah, see, I disagree with this notion. If anything, I imagine a semiclone newcomer being about the same as a returning veteran. Unless one DLC pack has a ton of additional content, I believe it'd be more like this: 1 unique newcomer, 1 semiclone, 1 returning veteran. Or just two of them, but I still think there'd be at least one unique newcomer to sell the pack. I also kinda believe Mewtwo won't be tied to a pack, because people who already got Mewtwo will have one less reason to buy that pack.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I agree with Golden and False Sense here. Our third party lineup is JUST FINE.

With Third Parties, I consider Snake a real contender, I really do. But, that's only because of that event and the fact he was in Brawl.

Other than that, yeah, the lineup is fine. It only feels like it's missing Snake because he was once there, which is only a personal thing as a fan.

 

[Arcadenik]

10-15 characters is a lot for DLC. When you have 10-15 characters, it is no longer DLC but a sequel. I would rather wait 5 years for 15 newcomers in SSB5.

 

[Curious Villager]

I wouldn't expect that many characters unless there are a number of clones/semi-clones among them. (I'm not sure how long the Brawl veterans would roughly take though) And depending how long they will carry on the whole DLC thing for.

But yeah, it's a bit unrealistic.

 

[LasermasterA]

@ BluePikmin11

That is a lot of characters you are suggesting. I doubt Snake and Layton since there are other 1st/2nd party characters more worthy of a spot plus Snake is not at all significant for Nintendo, he was in Brawl just because Kojima and Sakurai are best buds. Chorus Men probably won't be there if Ice climbers couldn't make it and it is too early for Inkling. People want K. Rool instead of Dixie and I don't think there should be a 3rd Link added. Plus it is missing Isaac.

I would go with K. Rool, Isaac, Wolf, Lucas, plus one (maybe Inkling) or 2 more. Mewtwo already confirmed.

The interviewer you posted was in 2012 and we're at the end of 2014. Dark Dawn ended on a cliffhanger, so a sequel should have come out by now. I think it's safe to say the series is dead. It's not just the number of years it's been dormant but also weak sales and not even a lot of interest from fans.

At the end of the day, Issac wont be in Smash as there isn't enough interest in Golden Sun in general.

I would have to disagree.

Golden Sun 2 also ended on a sequel hook if you watch the scene with Wise One, just not as blatant as Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Golden Sun was also not mentioned for a whole 6 years until we got a reveal at E3 2009. A cliffhanger ending does not mean a rush sequel. And considering how Dark Dawn was not as good as first 2, a sequel within a few years might be the worst thing to end the series permanently. Currently, it is probably in limbo, not dead. Metroid: Other M got a lukewarm response as well, sold around the same as DD and hasn't had a sequel in 4 years. It is nowhere dead. I obviously know that Metroid is an older series with representation already present in Smash so the situations are not exactly comparative but the example holds nonetheless.

Dark Dawn might have gotten a lukewarm response compared to the original 2 games but it did not perform extremely badly. It has probably sold around half a mil considering the original Golden Sun sold 1.1 mil in Japan and US alone. It is nowhere a small series. There are no official numbers for Dark Dawn and VGChartz is unreliable (which does say 730k but probably too high).

Camelot has been working on primarily 3 franchises for Nintendo since the Gameboy Advance Era. Mario Tennis, Mario Golf and Golden Sun. The interview was in 2012 I agree and now it is end of 2014.

Before this interview, Mario Tennis Open came out in May 2012 (which they were working on after Dark Dawn) and after this Mario Golf: World Tour in May 2014. Camelot is a small team and they can only work on one game at a time. Now that this is over, I doubt they would go back to a Mario Tennis or Mario Golf. They did help out in Smash as well. I would believe that Nintendo would make them prioritize Mario games over Golden Sun (sadly).

Plus Isaac has ONE of the biggest fanbases for possible newcomers for DLC. This is obviously not counting cut veterans. He was one of the most demanded characters for Project M as well.

Golden Sun fans still persist and are probably higher in number than a cult classic's following. Even on Smashboards, the Isaac thread has a fair amount of activity and Isaac still appears 4th to 5th for DLC. This included Ridley and Mewtwo, one of which has been mostly dis-confirmed and one wholly confirmed.

Also there is the case of Isaac AT suspiciously missing, a new Dark Dawn track on Palutena's temple, etc.

I think Isaac has a fairly good chance of DLC, not the highest maybe but definitely a good one.

#Isaac4Smash on #GoldenSunday

 

[Kalimdori]

Honestly, unpopular opinion here but I'm with @ BluePikmin11 on this.

Creating a character takes a ton of time and effort, yes. Sakurai said it takes about a year (In conjunction with making everything else though). Just making a character, model, animations, audio, testing, balancing, etc., would definitely take a lot of time, but nowhere near as long as a year as they aren't working on everything else the game has to offer at the same time. I don't know what your guys's background is when it comes to games, but I work and live with people who make games for a living. I'm confident I have a decent understanding of how long it would take them to make a character. And if it takes them an entire year, only focusing on one character, to make that character they need to hire better workers. Or have more then one person do all the work. And there is no way they are only working on one character at this time, they are probably working on several and have plans for more. Especially since Sakurai is implying that he still has a lot of work to do even though the game is releasing. ( http://www.gonintendo.com/s/240651-...-your-outlook-on-life-steals-your-social-life Poor guy, I love his games but he really needs to take care of himself)

I'm expecting, at the bare minimum, 8 characters, with all unique veteran characters returning (Mewtwo, Wolf, Lucas, Snake, ICs if they get them to work) and a few popular newcomers. If they plan on supporting this game with DLC in the long run/using Smash DLC as a sort of advertisement for other games, then I expect much more. We'll definitely get a lot of stages, those aren't nearly as hard to create.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai's new viewpoint is contrary to his previous viewpoint.

Yes, contrary. However, not everything that is contrary is a contradiction.
For a true contradiction, both viewpoints must exist at the same time. This is not the case.
For Brawl, Sakurai prioritized being suitable for combat ahead of uniqueness and standing out from the rest of the cast.
For Smash 4, Sakurai switched which quality was more of a priority.
Two different projects; two different viewpoints based on the direction intended for each project.

I read it and I agree, but my "anything can change!" quote has nothing to do with that discussion. If so, I would've replied to that quote or someone that replied to that. I did not though, I only replied to the last segment of another user's quote.

Said "another user's quote" was within context of the discussion.

I can see upwards of 6 or so, depending on what they do with it. I can imagine 1 new character (MAYBE 2) in six months, along with one returning character. I don't anticipate more than 2 DLC packs, but I could see them doing more in the future. I don't expect 6 characters specifically; I do expect about 4 or so, and I expect the DLC packs to be released approximately six months apart and include more content.

Such content could include stages (maybe 1 or 2), expansions to existing modes (perhaps 5 Event Matches), and maybe 20 trophies or so. I don't think the DLC packs will just be a single character (except Mewtwo), but its also possible they'll release separate forms of DLC. Nintendo's policy on DLC tends to be big packs, though, rather than individual items. Do note that I said "could include," I think the DLC packs would include more content, but what exactly would be picked, I don't know.


I could see "regular" Smash DLC happening to extend the length of the game, but I do not necessarily see it happening. The absolute max I can see DLC going is up to two years after release. I only expect 1 year, though, like with MK8. But I definitely think any DLC packs will be on-par with the MK8 and Hyrule Warriors packs.


EDIT: As for third-parties:
I don't see third-party DLC characters happening at all. Nintendo has plenty of their own characters and games to add and promote.


EDIT 2: Perhaps saying "expect" isn't the right term here. What I mean is, I think it'd probably happen this way.

So, and correct me if I'm misinterpreting, what you mean by "regular DLC" is more than just characters.
In that case, I fully agree that we'll be getting regular DLC, considering it's (sort of) already happening now with additions like Conquest, the Miiverse stage, Tournament mode, Mewtwo, etc.

 

[Rockaphin]

Yes, contrary. However, not everything that is contrary is a contradiction.
For a true contradiction, both viewpoints must exist at the same time. This is not the case.
For Brawl, Sakurai prioritized being suitable for combat ahead of uniqueness and standing out from the rest of the cast.
For Smash 4, Sakurai switched which quality was more of a priority.
Two different projects; two different viewpoints based on the direction intended for each project.

Yes, which is why I changed my statement. I agree with what you said so I fixed my statement.

Said "another user's quote" was within context of the discussion.

Like I said earlier, I replied to the last segment. I was giving my opinion solely to what I replied to. I do not care what was said earlier as I did not intend to join the former discussion.

 

[PSIBoy]

Why is it that everyone hates semi-clones? I get that they are not completely unique, but some semi-clones (namely Lucas and Wolf) play differently than their original counterparts. This may not be the case for maybe Toon Link or perhaps Falco and Ganondorf, but the more unique semi-clones require a whole different playstyle.

 

[Burruni]

Why is it that everyone hates semi-clones? I get that they are not completely unique, but some semi-clones (namely Lucas and Wolf) play differently than their original counterparts. This may not be the case for maybe Toon Link or perhaps Falco and Ganondorf, but the more unique semi-clones require a whole different playstyle.

It's namely newcomer DLC semi-clones that people are hesitant about.
Because frankly, here's the tiering of being a "clone"

How is this even a clone: from
Barely can tell:
Quasi-Clone (similar "feel" to specials but is largely different in moves):
"Stat" change and move differentiated semi-clone:
Move Differentiated Semi-Clone:
Significant "Stat" change clone:
Still feels different:
Somewhere in between:
Barely more than a color change:
Objectively Worse clone:

People a) don't want anything below the Lucas line, and most withdraw to the Falco-ndorf threshold. and b) are hoping for the King K. Rool unique character over the Dixie Kong semi-clone, for one example.

 

[PSIBoy]

It's namely newcomer DLC semi-clones that people are hesitant about.
Because frankly, here's the tiering of being a "clone"

How is this even a clone: from
Barely can tell:
Quasi-Clone (similar "feel" to specials but is largely different in moves):
"Stat" change and move differentiated semi-clone:
Move Differentiated Semi-Clone:
Significant "Stat" change clone:
Still feels different:
Barely more than a color change:
Objectively Worse clone:

People a) don't want anything below the Lucas line, and most withdraw to the Falco-ndorf threshold. and b) are hoping for the King K. Rool unique character over the Dixie Kong semi-clone, for one example.

I'd say bump Lucas up to Falco-Ganondorf or Wolf. His special moves are similar but have different effects, like PK Freeze freezes opponents instead of blasting them off at the speed of light and his PSI Magnet is only in front and has a hotbox. This is before we even get into his A moves. I think that is self-explanatory. Honestly, Lucas needs more love as a character instead of being just a clone of Ness when in reality he is only a semi-clone at worst. I feel he deserves his spot in Smash in general/DLC: he is unique enough like Wolf and more is debatably more unique than Falco and Ganondorf (even though I do not think he is likely at the moment).

Lol at the and comparison. Why do some people consider them clones? Like they are even remotely similar outside of jumps, b-air/f-air and d-air. I don't understand how they are even SEMI-CLONES of each other.

Sorry if anyone is offended by this.

 

[Burruni]

I'd say bump Lucas up to Falco-Ganondorf or Wolf. His special moves are similar but have different effects, like PK Freeze freezes opponents instead of blasting them off at the speed of light and his PSI Magnet is only in front and has a hotbox. This is before we even get into his A moves. I think that is self-explanatory. Honestly, Lucas needs more love as a character instead of being just a clone of Ness when in reality he is only a semi-clone at worst. I feel he deserves his spot in Smash in general/DLC: he is unique enough like Wolf and more is debatably more unique than Falco and Ganondorf (even though I do not think he is likely at the moment).

Lol at the and comparison. Why do some people consider them clones? Like they are even remotely similar outside of jumps, b-air/f-air and d-air. I don't understand how they are even SEMI-CLONES of each other.

Sorry if anyone is offended by this.

Personally, I agree to a degree. The issue is that Lucas in many of the basic stats of movement, air speed, weight, etc is a lot more similar to Ness than Falco is to Fox or Ganondorf to Captain.
His different d-air, vertical smashes, grab, and the differences in specials make him more differentiated than the Link clones who DO have stat differences that are significant but have the same moveset. That's my stance on it.
Falco now plays a LOT differently than Fox in this evolution of the game due to general speed and how Falco has a TON of multi-hit moves across his standard A moves that are different than Fox's and Ganondorf is a different beast than Falcon in a number of ways.
I know about Jiggs, people have tried to bring up them as a tier of cloning like Luigi but they're as much clones as Link is to Shulk.