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Character Discussion Thread

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Spazzy_D

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DLC wants excluding Third parties (and Ice Climbers):

All I need to be satisfied:

DK Rep
Wolf
Lucas

Things that would make me super happy:

Zelda Rep
Isaac
Another DK Rep
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Rhythm Heaven Rep
Fiora
Roy
Advanced War Rep

Thing I would put on the top of the list but I don't think have any real chance of happening:

Ridley

BONUS THIRD PARTIES

Anyone of these Konami reps - Snake, Simon Belmont, and Bomberman
Rayman
Shantae
 
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Solfiner

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DLC wants excluding Third parties (and Ice Climbers):

All I need to be satisfied:

DK Rep
Wolf
Lucas

Things that would make me super happy:

Zelda Rep
Isaac
Another DK Rep
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Rhythm Heaven Rep
Fiora
Roy
Advanced War Rep

Thing I would put on the top of the list but I don't think have any real chance of happening:

Ridley

BONUS THIRD PARTIES

Anyone of these Konami reps - Snake, Simon Belmont, and Bomberman
Rayman
Shantae
Wow, your list is almost exactly the same as mine. As of right now, I'm keeping my expectations low in order for me to not get disappointed in case we get very few characters, but I do think Lucas and Wolf have a great shot at making it.
 

Spazzy_D

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Wow, your list is almost exactly the same as mine. As of right now, I'm keeping my expectations low in order for me to not get disappointed in case we get very few characters, but I do think Lucas and Wolf have a great shot at making it.
GET BACK IN THE SHULK DISCUSSION FORUMS AND CONVERSATIONS! NO ONE SAID YOU COULD LEAVE!

(Also, I always new you had great taste!)
 
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D

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I suppose that's a fair point, but it's still Namco like Pac-Man and Pooka. Pooka isn't even marked as part of the Pac-Man franchise, despite having a lot of relations to it. I doubt we'd get the Bacura and Pooka if we didn't have Pac-Man too. So it's not like they're completely unrelated.
We probably would still have them, since Namco is the co-developer of the game. And we'd likely still have the Boss Galaga and S-Flag items.
Like I said, Namco likes to inject things from games they've worked on into other games. Including games they worked on with Nintendo. Star Fox Assault featured the S-Flag as a set of hidden items to collect in the story and Xevious was featured as an unlockable bonus game. I don't need to explain the Mario Kart Arcade GPs. Donkey Konga 3 featured songs from various Namco franchises to play.
Granted, the first two Donkey Kongas and the Mario Baseball games didn't have Namco content as far as I know, but my point still stands. Why do you think Namco is the only 3rd Party company that has items?


The last bullet point still suggests that Miis are a reason too. Miis are playable.
No, it doesn't.
"A series possible to choose" =/= "series with a playable character". It means that:
a) the series needs to be available for him to take an enemy from.
The series that have playable characters are, yes, easier to pull content from because they are already featured. That doesn't mean a series like Xevious, Rhythm Heaven, or Find Mii, which do not feature a character, cannot be chosen to feature an enemy.
Sakurai can't, for example, opt to have a Wyvern from Golden Sun if Camelot does not agree to it.

b) the series needs to have enemies to take from.
Series like Animal Crossing, Nintendogs, Wii Fit, etc. aside, franchises need to have viable enemies to take. Star Fox arguably doesn't have many options (arguably because some might make a case for the Aparoids), Fire Emblem typically has humanoid enemies (which Sakurai expressed were difficult), F-Zero can't really provide enemies, etc.

And it goes without saying that if there aren't resources available for those enemies, they'd require more workload, which Sakurai was trying to keep relatively low.

More than one difference.
- Comes from franchises that relate to Miis.
- Already has (and uses) existing 3DS models from the system.

Rhythm Heaven hasn't been on the 3DS yet, (aside from it's puzzle panel), so it's not like they could rip the Sneaky Spirit, Chrous Kids, and Karate Joe from anywhere (I'm pretty sure none of them are present in that Puzzle Panel anyways, cept for maybe Joe). I mean yeah sure, they're all 2D sprites pretty much but they still added in three trophies for a unplayable franchise. Your last bullet point for why the Find Mii ghosts are probably in would more than likely prevent the Sneaky Spirit for consideration in the first place (Comes from a series that is possible to choose).
Tell me.
What game does Wolf's model for his trophy come from? Same with Pigma, ROB 64, Leon, Panther, and Krystal? Star Fox Assault. A Gamecube game.
What about Glass Joe, Bald Bull, Mr. Sandman? Punch-Out!! for the Wii.
The Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks characters? Ripped from a DS.
Excitebiker? Excitebike World Rally for WiiWare.
etc.

So yeah, the "not on 3DS" excuse doesn't work.
Sneaky Spirits and Chorus Kids? Ripped from Rhythm Heaven DS. Karate Joe? Ripped from Rhythm Heaven Fever.
Being sprites doesn't matter, or should I point out the various sprite-based trophies?

I think it's more than fair to guess that we were getting a Rhythm Heaven character, and it was going to either be the Chorus Kids or Karate Joe. If it was Karate Joe, I doubt he would be cut because he would more than likely be an easy character to implement. Which then leaves the Chorus Kids. I believe they were meant to be playable, but were cut from the same reasons as the Ice Climbers. Too many things would be going on, and the 3DS simply wasn't strong enough to run that.
I find this hard to believe. It's one thing for the Ice Climbers, considering their two-as-one system and the fact it's two full models, but the Chorus Kids would more than likely be sprite-based and dissimilar to the Ice Climbers in how they function.
We can get away with 4 Rosalina & Lumas or 4 Olimars with 12 Pikmin; having 4 Chorus Kid trios that act as a single unit like Duck Hunt and take as much processing power as Mr. Game & Watch should be fine.
 

JaidynReiman

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So if unpopular or obscure characters are unlikely as DLC, is it pointless to support Mach Rider?
I don't see what's wrong in supporting characters for DLC. Just because some people (myself included) don't think they're all that likely doesn't mean its impossible. The main characters I want (K. Rool and Isaac) are popular, highly-requested candidates (yeah, Isaac's nowhere near the level of K. Rool, but he's still popular). However, I also really want Lip as well. I support Lip for DLC, and I hope she can potentially make it, but I will not get my hopes up at all for the possibility and do not think it will happen.


Is Rool so popular oustide Smash community too? Sakurai must think about other people than the extreme fans, like the usual casual group who also buys the game. How well known is Rool among those people?
Yes, of course he is. There wouldn't be so many requests for K. Rool if he wasn't. Before I even consider K. Rool for Smash, people were complaining left and right about the lack of Kremlings and K. Rool in DKC Returns, and it escalated in Tropical Freeze as well. The thing is, as a whole, K. Rool was a central part of Nintendo history as he was THE main antagonist of the DK franchise, so he was just seen as "normal."


A character doesn't become "only popular for Smash" if an overwhelming number of people support the character. That only goes for the more obscure characters, the unexpected ones. Those are the characters who become "only popular for Smash." Roy and Ice Climbers are excellent examples of this. Chorus Men could practically be considered this as well, they were only ever considered due to Gematsu Pt. 2.


I think you're completely overthinking this.
 

BluePikmin11

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I generally agree, although I would say make it more open to the smaller franchises. Characters like Isaac, Mallo, Andy/Sami, Chibi Robo, Ray etc. Sometimes it feel like they're the real impossible ones.....the ones caught in limbo between likely and unlikely.

To an extent I'd say Wonder Red and the Inklings too, even though they're not franchises yet.

I think these franchises could really add a breath of fresh air to the game if they were just given the chance.
To be clear, people always thought the smaller franchise characters had a good or great (especially when it came to Isaac) shot when it came to Smash 4 speculation.
Edit I read your post again, I'm basically repeating what you just said.

Yes, of course he is. There wouldn't be so many requests for K. Rool if he wasn't. Before I even consider K. Rool for Smash, people were complaining left and right about the lack of Kremlings and K. Rool in DKC Returns, and it escalated in Tropical Freeze as well. The thing is, as a whole, K. Rool was a central part of Nintendo history as he was THE main antagonist of the DK franchise, so he was just seen as "normal."


A character doesn't become "only popular for Smash" if an overwhelming number of people support the character. That only goes for the more obscure characters, the unexpected ones. Those are the characters who become "only popular for Smash." Roy and Ice Climbers are excellent examples of this. Chorus Men could practically be considered this as well, they were only ever considered due to Gematsu Pt. 2.


I think you're completely overthinking this.
There are also people who are just bandwagoners, they may not actually be fans of K. Rool himself. :p
 
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Spazzy_D

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I'm wondering if we might see a 4th Mii Fighter type be introduced as DLC. Seems like an easy addition, and a Mage type (even with the clothes and some of the moves being taken by the Gunner) would round out the Miis nicely.
 

Substitution

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The Mage type needs to happen, but we already have the long-ranged, in-between, and the close-combat fighter in the game. I feel like Sakurai won't see a 4th type as necessary.
What about the Jack-of-all-trades?
 
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D

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@ AEMehr AEMehr (Because I'm too lazy to add this to the end of my last post)
Futhermore, within the text data dump, we found a list of franchises that was presumed to be every franchise with an icon (since not all icons such as the Pilotwings icon are present in the 3DS texture data). In order to have an icon, a franchise has a character and/or a stage.
Despite not being on the 3DS version, Pilotwings, Wii Sports Resort, Wrecking Crew, and Miiverse were listed.
The 50-Fact Extravaganza revealed that there were in fact stages for Wii Sports Resort (Wuhu Island), Wrecking Crew, and Miiverse (Pilotwings was already shown).

Where am I going with this? Ice Climber was listed. Now, unless this is because Smash Wii U has Summit as a returning stage and we don't know about it yet, this is because the Ice Climbers were supposed to be returning characters (which Sakurai confirmed they were). Rhythm Heaven was not listed. If being planned as returning characters is why the Ice Climbers have their franchise in that list, wouldn't the Chorus Men being planned have meant Rhythm Heaven would also be listed?
 

False Sense

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I heard these were found in code. But that's a lie right? :
Well, I'm pretty sure that the Ice Climber symbol could be found in the code somewhere.

Not sure about the other ones, though (what's that last one supposed to be, anyway?).
 

aldelaro5

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Sometimes making movesets aren't worth making.. :p
They are likely to be ignored unless you do something to catch their eye.
Or just don't use spoilers, I found it more likely people read the moveset without it.
Even my complete moveset of Paper Mario?

I should ask before reposting this because I put a lot of TTYD input icons to make it


:awesome:
 

Solfiner

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I dunno, but I love that Golden Sun icon. :D

What's the center top, left bottom, and center bottom icons?
Center top is Nintendoland, left bottom is Chibi robo (I presume), center bottom is Wonderful 101.
 

JaidynReiman

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So, when Lana joins in via DLC, would Cia be a color swap or an assist trophy?
Good luck with that. I don't see Lana ever being added to Smash in any way, shape, or form. She's a character created entirely by a third-party to Nintendo, likely has no chance of appearing in future Zelda games whatsoever outside of Hyrule Warriors, and is not in any way, shape, or form important to the Zelda franchise. Although I don't think Ghirahim has any chance of being promoted from AT to Playable, I'd gladly take him over Lana.
 

Jason the Yoshi

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Good luck with that. I don't see Lana ever being added to Smash in any way, shape, or form. She's a character created entirely by a third-party to Nintendo, likely has no chance of appearing in future Zelda games whatsoever outside of Hyrule Warriors, and is not in any way, shape, or form important to the Zelda franchise. Although I don't think Ghirahim has any chance of being promoted from AT to Playable, I'd gladly take him over Lana.
Lana is not owned by Koei Temco. I see where you may be biased since it's kinda like Geno, but what a lot of people don't know is that Nintendo was involved in the development in Hyrule Warriors, wheras Square acted alone in the development of Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars.
 

JaidynReiman

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Lana is not owned by Koei Temco. I see where you may be biased since it's kinda like Geno, but what a lot of people don't know is that Nintendo was involved in the development in Hyrule Warriors, wheras Square acted alone in the development of Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars.
Doesn't matter. Nintendo owns most of the characters created in Zelda spinoffs by other companies. The fact is, Lana has no place throughout the rest of the series. Every game in the franchise has characters that never appeared again, even major characters in specific games. It doesn't matter who owns Lana (although regardless, I don't know where its stated that Koei Techmo doesn't own Lana and Cia).

Again, it has nothing to do with licensing. It has to do with how Nintendo deals with characters. They only use characters they created, and they tend to prefer creating new characters rather than reusing existing ones. Lana has nothing to do with the rest of the franchise, it is EXTREMELY likely she will never appear in a real Zelda game, ever. If future Hyrule Warriors games are created, she's basically guaranteed to return, but that has nothing to do with the main Zelda games, and Hyrule Warriors will never be mentioned in any main Zelda games at all, either.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Doesn't matter. Nintendo owns most of the characters created in Zelda spinoffs by other companies. The fact is, Lana has no place throughout the rest of the series. Every game in the franchise has characters that never appeared again, even major characters in specific games. It doesn't matter who owns Lana (although regardless, I don't know where its stated that Koei Techmo doesn't own Lana and Cia).

Again, it has nothing to do with licensing. It has to do with how Nintendo deals with characters. They only use characters they created, and they tend to prefer creating new characters rather than reusing existing ones. Lana has nothing to do with the rest of the franchise, it is EXTREMELY likely she will never appear in a real Zelda game, ever. If future Hyrule Warriors games are created, she's basically guaranteed to return, but that has nothing to do with the main Zelda games, and Hyrule Warriors will never be mentioned in any main Zelda games at all, either.
Although if hyrule warriors were to get a sequel I think she'd have a good chance of appearing in some form whether that be playable or an assist
 

ElPanandero

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Sakurai definitely tried to make Ridley playable, in the video, when he shows up on pyroshpere, he's definitely using what looked like an ftilt. I surmise he wanted Ridley, but just couldn't make it work, so made what moveset he had and pasted it into pyrosphere as a hyper mega stage boss.
 

Morbi

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Sakurai definitely tried to make Ridley playable, in the video, when he shows up on pyroshpere, he's definitely using what looked like an ftilt. I surmise he wanted Ridley, but just couldn't make it work, so made what moveset he had and pasted it into pyrosphere as a hyper mega stage boss.
I do not believe that Sakurai "definitely" tried to make Ridley playable. Surely, that would require more evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
 

JaidynReiman

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From what I get, you're saying that spinoffs get no recognition.

If that's true, then explain all the recognition Mario Kart gets in Smash.
Zelda spinoffs sure as hell don't. But that's not what I was saying at all. The chances of Lana ever appearing in Smash is slim at best if she never appears in a main Zelda game, and spinoff games are barely, if ever recognized in main Zelda games.


If we are to get a new Zelda character, it'd likely be a main Zelda character, or a recurring one in one of the main games, not a spinoff-exclusive character whose incredibly unlikely to ever appear in a main Zelda game. Saria is more likely to be playable in Smash than Lana (and Saria is incredibly unlikely to appear again as is, sadly; though I do have some hope she might be added as Hyrule Warriors DLC down the line).


I do not believe that Sakurai "definitely" tried to make Ridley playable. Surely, that would require more evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
I think he most likely did, but you're right in that we can't possibly know unless Sakurai tells us. And chances are, if he did try to make Ridley playable, he won't tell us because that would make Ridley extremely likely to be playable in the next Smash game, and ultimately it'd spoil him finally being made playable.
 

Substitution

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I'll admit, unless Sakurai comes out and says it, I don't believe there was a thought of him being playable. As admittedly, there's no evidence pointing to a playable status.

But I digress, it's simply an opinion.
 
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TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Zelda spinoffs sure as hell don't. But that's not what I was saying at all. The chances of Lana ever appearing in Smash is slim at best if she never appears in a main Zelda game, and spinoff games are barely, if ever recognized in main Zelda games.


If we are to get a new Zelda character, it'd likely be a main Zelda character, or a recurring one in one of the main games, not a spinoff-exclusive character whose incredibly unlikely to ever appear in a main Zelda game. Saria is more likely to be playable in Smash than Lana (and Saria is incredibly unlikely to appear again as is, sadly; though I do have some hope she might be added as Hyrule Warriors DLC down the line).



I think he most likely did, but you're right in that we can't possibly know unless Sakurai tells us. And chances are, if he did try to make Ridley playable, he won't tell us because that would make Ridley extremely likely to be playable in the next Smash game, and ultimately it'd spoil him finally being made playable.
Other than the ones we don't talk about, has Zelda ever had any spinoffs?
 

False Sense

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From what I get, you're saying that spinoffs get no recognition.

If that's true, then explain all the recognition Mario Kart gets in Smash.
To be fair, Mario is really its own unique situation in that its spin-offs are actually big, successful series within themselves.

Anyway, as a counterpoint to that, despite all the recognition Mario Kart receives in Smash, we have yet to get a true Mario Kart representative on the roster (in other words, no Waluigi). I don't see why that would be any different for one Legend of Zelda spin-off.
 
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