Character Discussion Thread

[The Light Music Club]

Wait is Shantae 1st or 2nd party? I thought she was 3rd.

 

[N3ON]

Wait is Shantae 1st or 2nd party? I thought she was 3rd.

She's third-party.

Shame too, because she'd fit great in Smash.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Source?

Well that's just going by leaks anyway.

 

[GunGunW]

Which is just as well considering that they have never been among the most heavily requested Smash characters among the more dedicated Smash fans. Considering these are the people that DLC is aimed at, this does make the Chorus Men extremely unlikely as stand-alone DLC. If they make it in, I expect them to be part of a bigger DLC pack.

I agree completely. The DLC characters they add are going to be ones that are heavily requested. If they add less popular characters, not as many people are going to buy them.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Is there going to be another "Rate their chances" thread? I have to admit the character discussion board looks a bit naked without that thread at the top.

Even though speculation is back, does anyone else feel like this forum is still somewhat subdued? I guess it's because a number of the bigger support threads are gone now by either being confirmed or deconfirmed. I suppose there also isn't the same boundless expectation either, no matter how many dlc characters we get the most recent one will probably be treated like the last one.

It was more fun when we knew there were at least 10 newcomers on the way.

 

[Deleted member]

Well that's just going by leaks anyway.

We have no way in knowing whether or not Gematsu's source was accurate past the first E3 list.
Until we have legitimate evidence that supports the Chorus Kids being an intended part of the game, you can't claim they were as if it were fact.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I agree completely. The DLC characters they add are going to be ones that are heavily requested. If they add less popular characters, not as many people are going to buy them.

Unless of course, they are added as part of a pack along with heavily requested characters. Potential clone additions added as extras are one possible way, like, say, Pichu being part of a pack along with Mewtwo.

Is there going to be another "Rate their chances" thread? I have to admit the character discussion board looks a bit naked without that thread at the top.

Do you want us to end up being wrong about many characters once again?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Do you want us to end up being wrong about many characters once again?

Yes. You can all give Isaac 0% chance and then I'll be laughing at you when he gets confirmed.

 

[Substitution]

Do you want us to end up being wrong about many characters once again?

But it was so much fun being wrong!

 

[BluePikmin11]

By the way, Sakurai has never said only popular characters will be DLC, don't spread that as fact yet.

We have no way in knowing whether or not Gematsu's source was accurate past the first E3 list.
Until we have legitimate evidence that supports the Chorus Kids being an intended part of the game, you can't claim they were as if it were fact.

Well the suspicious amount RH content comes to mind, I kinda feel that it's something that leads to Chorus Kids being planned, but yeah it's not fact yet, woops.

Is there going to be another "Rate their chances" thread? I have to admit the character discussion board looks a bit naked without that thread at the top.

Even though speculation is back, does anyone else feel like this forum is still somewhat subdued? I guess it's because a number of the bigger support threads are gone now by either being confirmed or deconfirmed. I suppose there also isn't the same boundless expectation either, no matter how many dlc characters we get the most recent one will probably be treated like the last one.

It was more fun when we knew there were at least 10 newcomers on the way.

Were going to wrong about a certain character's chances anyway. I recommend that kind of thread never happens.

 

[Deleted member]

Well the suspicious amount RH content comes to mind, I kinda feel that it's something that leads to Chorus Kids being planned, but yeah it's not fact yet, woops.

The only suspicious aspect is that the series got Smash Run enemy like Ice Climber did, and we know for fact the Ice Climbers were supposed to return.
But then there's the Xevious enemy and the Find Mii enemy (though that "series" got a stage).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

But it was so much fun being wrong!

Imagine how speculation for DLC could hypothetically go like?

"Roy is not happening. We are not getting two Marth clones!"
Sakurai: Wrong! Roy confirmed! Now with 100% more fire!

"Krystal is not happening. We only need Wolf. Besides, she's obviously going to be a semi-clone of Fox!"
Sakurai: Wrong! Krystal and Wolf confirmed! Also, Krystal is completely unique! Enjoy!"

"We are not getting another water-type Pokemon as DLC and nobody like Ivysaur. Neither Squirtle nor Ivysaur are happening!"
Sakurai: Wrong! Squirtle and Ivysaur confirmed!

"Surely Impa's the most likely LoZ character and she'll be the one to get in as part of a DLC pack."
Sakurai: Wrong! Toon Zelda confirmed! You'll have your chibi princess and you will like it, son!

"Sorry, but the Chorus Men are likely not happening"
Sakurai: Wrong! The Chorus Men confirmed! Let's Dance!

"Pichu is thankfully never happening and there is no way we will ever get anymore Pokemon characters at all"
Sakurai: Wrong! Pichu, Ivysaur and Squrtle confirmed! When you buy Mewtwo for just $15, you also get THESE characters! Pichu Pichu!

 

[BluePikmin11]

There's a Xevious enemy in the game?
There's not much plausible enemies (Going by Sakurai's enemy criteria) in Pac-Man, theoretically, it's probably the reason why they chose enemies from other Namco games too.
As for the Find Mii enemy, they are probably just the general enemies for the many games Miis starred in, I personally think it doesn't count.

 

[GunGunW]

By the way, Sakurai has never said only popular characters will be DLC, don't spread that as fact yet.

Why would they spend a long time working on someone who isn't going to sell as well as someone else? I mean, I'm not ruling it out, but it would seem pointless to me.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Why would they spend a long time working on someone who isn't going to sell as well as someone else? I mean, I'm not ruling it out, but it would seem pointless to me.

What about spending less development time on extra characters, namely clones, as part of a DLC pack where the main feature is indeed a heavily wanted character?

 

[GunGunW]

What about spending less development time on extra characters, namely clones, as part of a DLC pack where the main feature is indeed a heavily wanted character?

That could work, but I don't see them spending time working on "Savvy Stylist" as a totally unique character that takes months to develop. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but why would you spend a lot of time working on someone who people aren't as interested in? What you're suggesting is like the Mario Kart DLC pack where they added Link (someone cool) and yet another Mario and another Peach. So I wouldn't put that past them.

 

[Curious Villager]

I can see them doing like the Mario Kart 8 DLC packs. Include a very popular or more interesting character (Link) and add in one or two not-so-popular or easy to develop ones (Cat Peach and Tanooki Mario) all in one pack, with maybe a stage and a few other things too.

So yeah kinda like including Mewtwo and Pichu together with the return of Pokemon Stadium or Poke Floats as a part of a "Melee Pokemon Pack" or something. Just an example.

 

[Deleted member]

There's a Xevious enemy in the game?
There's not much plausible enemies (Going by Sakurai's enemy criteria) in Pac-Man, theoretically, it's probably the reason why they chose enemies from other Namco games too.

Pac-Man already had an enemy through the Pooka. Yes, those debuted in Dig Dug, but they've become integrated into the Pac-Man franchise as well.

Pac-Man is not any shorter of plausible enemies to work with than Mega Man or Sonic, yet they only got one enemy each (Met and Eggrobo).
So why Xevious got an enemy has less to do with because Pac-Man and more to do with because Namco.

As for the Find Mii enemy, they are probably just the general enemies for the many games Miis starred in, I personally think it doesn't count.

Or, the more plausible explanation based on how Sakurai picked out the enemies, they were included for a specific purpose (small enemy protected by shield that is more of a hindrance than a threat) and because they had a model ready to use (ripped right out of Find Mii).
Not every franchise that has a character has an enemy.

 

[AEMehr]

The only suspicious aspect is that the series got Smash Run enemy like Ice Climber did, and we know for fact the Ice Climbers were supposed to return.
But then there's the Xevious enemy and the Find Mii enemy (though that "series" got a stage).

They still are in reference to playable characters.
Xevious enemy is supposed to parallel with Pac-Man along with Pooka, and the Find Mii Ghost is supposed to parallel with the Mii Fighters.

The Sneaky Spirit just snuck it's way in, the fact that Rhythm Heaven has an extra two trophies with them (with the Chorus Kids being among them) can't be a mere coincidence.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I can see them doing like the Mario Kart DLC packs. Include a very popular character (Link) and add in one or two not-so-popular or easy to develop ones (Cat Peach and Tanooki Mario) all in one pack, with maybe a stage and a few other things too.

So yeah kinda like including Mewtwo and Pichu together with the return of Pokemon Stadium or Poke Floats as a "Melee Pokemon Pack" or something. Just an example.

Well, the thing is, here's how it works.


Link is a brand new character, he takes a lot more development time to configure. Cat Peach and Tanooki Mario? Not popular and not wanted, but easy to make because they're clones.


Smash DLC will likely be this way. We'll get one big new character, and 1-2 easier to make characters. So either a clone/semiclone, or a cut Brawl veteran. That's a better comparison to the Mario situation.


An obscure character that barely anyone knows or cares about STILL requires heavy development time to make. That's not the same situation at all as the MK8 DLC, not to mention the fact that the tracks are the bigger part of the MK8 DLC anyway. For Smash, the characters are the bigger part. Stages may take some development time, but the characters are the biggest bulk of the work.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah if they want to sell a more obscure character they should probably be sure to present them as interestingly as possible or bundle them with a more popular character, I'd suppose.

I guess we'll see how that would go..... :/

 

[WieldyMinotaur]

If the "one popular and 1-2 obscure/clones in a pack" theory is correct, then I can see fan favorites like for example Isaac or Dixie easily get in. Strange that Sakurai chose not to include Ridley then.

 

[JaidynReiman]

If the "one popular and 1-2 obscure/clones in a pack" theory is correct, then I can see fan favorites like for example Isaac or Dixie easily get in. Strange that Sakurai chose not to include Ridley then.

I still say he tried to, but had severe problems getting Ridley to work on 3DS. Not sure what limitations would've caused it, but whatever the case, he couldn't get Ridley to work, and they put so much time into him they added him as a stage boss instead. That's probably the best explanation.


I still say if they go by popularity (and importance honestly), K. Rool is in a much better position than Dixie. Dixie is the most popular playable DK character, but K. Rool is far more wanted as a whole in Smash Bros. Honestly I say we should get both, but there's no guarantee that kind of thing would happen.

 

[Substitution]

I still say he tried to, but had severe problems getting Ridley to work on 3DS. Not sure what limitations would've caused it, but whatever the case, he couldn't get Ridley to work, and they put so much time into him they added him as a stage boss instead. That's probably the best explanation.

If I could ask, what could said limitations be?

 

[Kenith]

If I could ask, what could said limitations be?

I'll give you three guesses...

 

[JaidynReiman]

If I could ask, what could said limitations be?

3DS doesn't have enough power to handle certain situations. Ridley may have had some problems due to his body build. Another possible explanation could also be his wings. Even resized, his wings would still be quite large and could prove cumbersome on the smaller screen. On Wii U they wouldn't be a problem, but the 3DS might've been an issue. There's any number of things that could've gone wrong, as Ridley was always seen as a rather tricky character to get working. Sakurai even said so himself. Maybe he felt that Ridley was too slow, but if he tried speeding up Ridley's attacks, it caused extra lag on the 3DS.


At first glance IC's wouldn't seem like a problem character, would they, especially with Rosalina? Problem with IC's is the AI to move the second character.

I'll give you three guesses...

Being "too big" could plausibly be an explanation, but not an explanation as to why he wouldn't be playable. Regardless of how Ridley would be resized, he'd still be one of if not the biggest playable characters. Slightly bigger than Bowser, likely. That is a plausible explanation for him not working on 3DS, but its a stupid argument entirely as to why any character would be skipped over (especially since Ridley's not that big in the Metroid games, in fact on average he's smaller than K. Rool).

 

[Substitution]

I'll give you three guesses...

Well, either they couldn't get the purple palette, time, or they needed Dark Pit to appease the war gods.

3DS doesn't have enough power to handle certain situations. Ridley may have had some problems due to his body build. Another possible explanation could also be his wings. Even resized, his wings would still be quite large and could prove cumbersome on the smaller screen. On Wii U they wouldn't be a problem, but the 3DS might've been an issue. There's any number of things that could've gone wrong, as Ridley was always seen as a rather tricky character to get working. Sakurai even said so himself. Maybe he felt that Ridley was too slow, but if he tried speeding up Ridley's attacks, it caused extra lag on the 3DS.

So what you're saying is they had issues due to size, he was "too big", so to speak.

 

[Deleted member]

They still are in reference to playable characters.
Xevious enemy is supposed to parallel with Pac-Man along with Pooka, and the Find Mii Ghost is supposed to parallel with the Mii Fighters.

Pookas have appeared in the Pac-Man games as enemies.
Bacura have not. The only connection is through Namco as a whole with nods and references to other games they made within games they make. So as I said to BluePikmin, it's less because Pac-Man and more because Namco.

And as I also said to BluePikmin, there's more reason to believe that the Yellow Ghosts were included because of ease of inclusion and their specific function as opposed to "because Miis are playable" based on what Sakurai said about how he picked out the enemies.

Spoiler

– serves well as a general enemy
– light processing of movement on 3DS (comes down to the system’s hardware)
– it is possible to create uniqueness for that enemy
– maintaining balance between big or small, weak or strong enemies
– reduction of the relative workload that is required
– comes from a series that is possible to choose

The Sneaky Spirit just snuck it's way in, the fact that Rhythm Heaven has an extra two trophies with them (with the Chorus Kids being among them) can't be a mere coincidence.

Yes it can.
Monster Manor has two trophies. Warrior's Way has two trophies. Mii Force has two trophies. Rusty's Real Deal Baseball has two trophies.
The only difference is that Rhythm Heaven also features an enemy with its own trophy.

 

[Kenith]

So if unpopular or obscure characters are unlikely as DLC, is it pointless to support Mach Rider?

 

[WieldyMinotaur]

I still say if they go by popularity (and importance honestly), K. Rool is in a much better position than Dixie. Dixie is the most popular playable DK character, but K. Rool is far more wanted as a whole in Smash Bros. Honestly I say we should get both, but there's no guarantee that kind of thing would happen.

Is Rool so popular oustide Smash community too? Sakurai must think about other people than the extreme fans, like the usual casual group who also buys the game. How well known is Rool among those people?

Ridley's not that big in the Metroid games, in fact on average he's smaller than K. Rool).

Now prepare for "King K Rool is too big"

 

[Substitution]

So if unpopular or obscure characters are unlikely as DLC, is it pointless to support Mach Rider?

Well knowing how many oddballs we've gotten. I still think they're likely.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think there's gonna be limitations for DLC characters such as only being playable in Versus Mode?

 

[WieldyMinotaur]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think there's gonna be limitations for DLC characters such as only being playable in Versus Mode?

I dont think so, why should there be?

 

[AEMehr]

Pookas have appeared in the Pac-Man games as enemies.
Bacura have not. The only connection is through Namco as a whole with nods and references to other games they made within games they make. So as I said to BluePikmin, it's less because Pac-Man and more because Namco.

I suppose that's a fair point, but it's still Namco like Pac-Man and Pooka. Pooka isn't even marked as part of the Pac-Man franchise, despite having a lot of relations to it. I doubt we'd get the Bacura and Pooka if we didn't have Pac-Man too. So it's not like they're completely unrelated.

And as I also said to BluePikmin, there's more reason to believe that the Yellow Ghosts were included because of ease of inclusion and their specific function as opposed to "because Miis are playable" based on what Sakurai said about how he picked out the enemies.

Spoiler

– serves well as a general enemy
– light processing of movement on 3DS (comes down to the system’s hardware)
– it is possible to create uniqueness for that enemy
– maintaining balance between big or small, weak or strong enemies
– reduction of the relative workload that is required
– comes from a series that is possible to choose

The last bullet point still suggests that Miis are a reason too. Miis are playable.

Yes it can.
Monster Manor has two trophies. Warrior's Way has two trophies. Mii Force has two trophies. Rusty's Real Deal Baseball has two trophies.
The only difference is that Rhythm Heaven also features an enemy with its own trophy.

More than one difference.
- Comes from franchises that relate to Miis.
- Already has (and uses) existing 3DS models from the system.

Rhythm Heaven hasn't been on the 3DS yet, (aside from it's puzzle panel), so it's not like they could rip the Sneaky Spirit, Chrous Kids, and Karate Joe from anywhere (I'm pretty sure none of them are present in that Puzzle Panel anyways, cept for maybe Joe). I mean yeah sure, they're all 2D sprites pretty much but they still added in three trophies for a unplayable franchise. Your last bullet point for why the Find Mii ghosts are probably in would more than likely prevent the Sneaky Spirit for consideration in the first place (Comes from a series that is possible to choose).

I think it's more than fair to guess that we were getting a Rhythm Heaven character, and it was going to either be the Chorus Kids or Karate Joe. If it was Karate Joe, I doubt he would be cut because he would more than likely be an easy character to implement. Which then leaves the Chorus Kids. I believe they were meant to be playable, but were cut from the same reasons as the Ice Climbers. Too many things would be going on, and the 3DS simply wasn't strong enough to run that.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Haven't been on this thread since it reopened. What's going on, just random DLC lists?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Haven't been on this thread since it reopened. What's going on, just random DLC lists?

Pretty much

I dont think so, why should there be?

i was just thinking it would be too much work for All Star Mode, and it's no use playing Classic Mode with them since you already got there trophies from who knows where in the game.

 

[WieldyMinotaur]

Pretty much

i was just thinking it would be too much work for All Star Mode, and it's no use playing Classic Mode with them since you already got there trophies from who knows where in the game.

I dont think that no use for Classic mode is a reason for not having them playable there. People may like them and want to take on Classic mode challenges with them anyways, even thought you do not get their trophy.
I can see your point in All-Star though.
In online and CPU modes they should defenitly be playable though.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I'm going to throw this out there.... Mewtwo was by far the hardest veteran to bring back as DLC. (Excluding, perhaps, Ice Climbers and Snake due to technical limitations and legal red tape.)

Every other cut character either has Brawl data that can be ported over or is a clone with an already preexisting template in the game. They would need work done to them (updated models, customs, new moves, balancing, play testing, etc.) but I would imagine that it would take FAR less work to bring them back then to create a single new character.

If we have extensive DLC (5-12 character range,) I would put money on around half or more being vets.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I personally want Sakurai to use the same criteria he used for the main roster, only it's more open to third-parties and Nintendo characters that were considered impossible (like Masked Man and Geno).

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I personally want Sakurai to use the same criteria he used for the main roster, only it's more open to third-parties and Nintendo characters that were considered impossible (like Masked Man and Geno).

I generally agree, although I would say make it more open to the smaller franchises. Characters like Isaac, Mallo, Andy/Sami, Chibi Robo, Ray etc. Sometimes it feel like they're the real impossible ones.....the ones caught in limbo between likely and unlikely.

To an extent I'd say Wonder Red and the Inklings too, even though they're not franchises yet.

I think these franchises could really add a breath of fresh air to the game if they were just given the chance.