Character Discussion Thread

[Kenith]

I'm a bit confused what you mean by that. Even in general, I can't say promotion is a defining feature of this game. They are revealing certain facets for releases, but that doesn't mean that it's a major feature that affects the game. For instance, going by to the characters, of the ones we have now, all of them had something going for them outside of just being promoted at the time. WFT and Rosalina were characters that added uniqueness to the cast, Villager was a highly requested character that also did the same and Megaman completely throws it out for getting in as a highly popular character. Even ignoring that, there's no reason to assume the same wouldn't hold true for examples like King K. Rool, Ridley or Little Mac who haven't appeared in games for some time but still have good things going for them based on Sakurai's criteria.

It means exactly what you're saying it means. All of those characters are promoting something.

Perhaps I should clarify. I think many characters being chosen have to have some credibility. As in, unlikely we'll get Dillon because he's in a small, somewhat coldly received series, even though he has a lot of potential.

Rosalina was in Super Mario Galaxy, which was extremely successful and well-recieved. Mega Man has his whole series behind him, specifically the classic series. WFT would never have been added if not for Wii Fit's ridiculous success.

I certainly agree with this sentiment, those who blatantly disregard this notion are fallaciously speculating. However, as you stated, it doesn't entirely dictate the roster. It is a factor, just as relevance IS a factor. Just as being a female character IS a factor. We aren't aware of the magnitude, everything is a factor though. It is quite annoying when people dismiss something as one part of the whole is erroneous. Like Ridley, sure the "too big" argument is utterly ridiculous. The extension of that, the "too hard to develop" argument actually has a lot going for it.

We aren't aware, that is a good point. As I tried to say before, I think since the new game's release is far away (i. e. we don't even know when it's coming out) Sakurai is revealing only characters that promote something, hence why the reveals have been so random.

However, once we get closer to SSB4's release, Sakurai will play some way more interesting cards, like Ridley, or Mewtwo.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I certainly agree with this sentiment, those who blatantly disregard this notion are fallaciously speculating. However, as you stated, it doesn't entirely dictate the roster. It is a factor, just as relevance IS a factor. Just as being a female character IS a factor. We aren't aware of the magnitude, everything is a factor though. It is quite annoying when people dismiss something as one part of the whole is erroneous. Like Ridley, sure the "too big" argument is utterly ridiculous. The extension of that, the "too hard to develop" argument actually has a lot going for it.

People tend to simply forget there isn't a factor, but many factors.

It's kind of like cooking. I mean it's more then just making food, it's about making food with excellent presentation, taste, texture, planning, and pacing. You need all those factors in order to serve high quality food, it's not just simply serving the food to the customers like people think it is.

 

[Morbi]

I don't understand the hard to develop part, can you explain it to me?

I would explain it to you, but I am feeling lazy. So instead, I will allow Sakurai to speak for me.

NP (Nintendo Power): There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?
S (Sakurai): I think that would probably be impossible.[laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that have been all right? [laughs]

If his words weren't concise enough, I could always elaborate, I suppose. I am an adamant believer that this is sufficient though. One thing that I personally see as detrimental... Donkey Kong. If you go to the official website, would you be so kind as to compare his 3DS model to his already lackluster Wii U model. I imagine the same fate for our favorite purple alien space dragon that is really a pterodactyl.

 

[Kenith]

I do wish this thread was more...lively.

 

[Gunla]

I do wish this thread was more...lively.

Don't mind me, I'm just lurking here. Waiting for a good time to post my current roster revision. Added a new... little change.

 

[Kenith]

Don't mind me, I'm just lurking here. Waiting for a good time to post my current roster revision. Added a new... little change.

That's ominous. I guess I should go revise mine...

 

[Arcanir]

It means exactly what you're saying it means. All of those characters are promoting something.
Perhaps I should clarify. I think many characters being chosen have to have some credibility. As in, unlikely we'll get Dillon because he's in a small, somewhat coldly received series, even though he has a lot of potential.
Rosalina was in Super Mario Galaxy, which was extremely successful and well-recieved. Mega Man has his whole series behind him, specifically the classic series. WFT would never have been added if not for Wii Fit's ridiculous success.

That's a rather generalized way of looking at it though, of course they promote something because they're from games and just by being there they represent them. Either way, my primary argument is that it's not the only thing they're here for. Sakurai has ignored popular or heavily promoted things for lesser known franchises before just as much as he's catered to the recent things that were out. Even now you can show multiple reasons for why each and every one of those characters are picked, whether it be uniqueness, popularity or otherwise. Hell, Sakurai has given reasons for picking WFT that didn't necessarily pertain to the success of her series.

As for Megaman, remember that he got in over characters that were much more heavily promoted in his company such as SF but got in because people wanted that character more and Sakurai was more interested in him.

I would explain it to you, but I am feeling lazy. So instead, I will allow Sakurai to speak for me.

NP (Nintendo Power): There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?
S (Sakurai): I think that would probably be impossible.[laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that have been all right? [laughs]

If his words weren't concise enough, I could always elaborate, I suppose. I am an adamant believer that this is sufficient though. One thing that I personally see as detrimental... Donkey Kong. If you go to the official website, would you be so kind as to compare his 3DS model to his already lackluster Wii U model. I imagine the same fate for our favorite purple alien space dragon that is really a pterodactyl.

Lets not use that quote, that's been argued to hell and back with so many interpretations that it'll make your head spin. One of which argues that it wasn't even a consideration for Sakurai, he was just going off the top of his head.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I do wish this thread was more...lively.

Oh I don't. Its nice to have a quiet character forum.

 

[Tepig2000]

I do wish this thread was more...lively.

Just wait a few more days and it will become as popular as the previous one.

 

[Morbi]

That's a rather generalized way of looking at it though, of course they promote something because they're from games and just by being there they represent them. Either way, my primary argument is that it's not the only thing they're here for. Sakurai has ignored popular or heavily promoted things before just as much as he's catered to the recent things that were out, and even then it's not the only reason he picks them. Even now you can show multiple reasons for why each and every one of those characters are picked, whether it be uniqueness, popularity or otherwise.

As for Megaman, remember that he got in over characters that were much more heavily promoted in his company such as SF but got in because people wanted that character more and Sakurai was more interested in him.



Lets not use that quote, that's been argued to hell and back with so many interpretations that it'll make your head spin. One of which argues that it wasn't even a consideration for him, he was just going off the top of his head.

I am not entirely sure what you are insinuating. It is a quote, made by Sakurai. It isn't open to interpretations. He literally implies that Ridley is difficult to develop, twice, this is prior to his fallacious proclamation. That is all I am getting at, I am not asserting that he is impossible. It satisfies the notion I am attempting to make blatantly overt, Ridley IS going to be difficult to develop, thus the quote is relevant to our discussion. It, alone, completely and utterly supports my argument. So I will use it.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The Ridley quote simply suggests he would be difficult to develop for Smash as a playable character. There is nothing brought up as to why that would be.

Really, it may not be that he's too big, but his Super Metroid proportions were crazy. With that though, I will recommend the glory that is Angelglory's newest size comparison for Ridley in his Other M incarnation. Check the Ridley thread for it.

 

[Kenith]

That's a rather generalized way of looking at it though, of course they promote something because they're from games and just by being there they represent them. Either way, my primary argument is that it's not the only thing they're here for. Sakurai has ignored popular or heavily promoted things for lesser known franchises before just as much as he's catered to the recent things that were out. Even now you can show multiple reasons for why each and every one of those characters are picked, whether it be uniqueness, popularity or otherwise. Hell, Sakurai has given reasons for picking WFT that didn't necessarily pertain to the success of her series.

As for Megaman, remember that he got in over characters that were much more heavily promoted in his company such as SF but got in because people wanted that character more and Sakurai was more interested in him.

Well, I never stated that was the only reason. As me and Morbid are saying, it is a factor.
Promotion is most certainly a factor. I'm not making a pessimistic, "Nintendo only cares about money" sort of statement.

Popularity and promotion go hand-in hand in some cases, other times they do not.

 

[Morbi]

The Ridley quote simply suggests he would be difficult to develop for Smash as a playable character. There is nothing brought up as to why that would be.

Really, it may not be that he's too big, but his Super Metroid proportions were crazy. With that though, I will recommend the glory that is Angelglory's newest size comparison for Ridley in his Other M incarnation. Check the Ridley thread for it.

That was my point precisely, in fact, that is literally what I stated, twice. I am starting to feel like Sakurai.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I just think that people treating Sakurai as a stereotypical power corrupted businessman are thinking in the wrong direction, because it's pretty clear he's doing it more for the art.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here is the size comparison Angelglory made. It compares Other M Ridley to Samus and Super Metroid Ridley. I think this seals the deal for me.

Clearly, I'm in the boat for a redesign of the Other M model, but to me it certainly looks easier to work with than the Super Metroid model.

 

[Gunla]

This might be a tad unexpected, but I'm posting a new roster.

I made this one last night. What is changed from my previous roster?
-Porky Minch. It was either that or Black Shadow.
-Everyone but ROB and Porky have Custom Icons or SSB4 Icons!
-RED IS STILL PT. I JUST USED THE ICON BECAUSE I LIKED IT.

Here is the size comparison Angelglory made. It compares Other M Ridley to Samus and Super Metroid Ridley. I think this seals the deal for me.

View attachment 8044

Clearly, I'm in the boat for a redesign of the Other M model, but to me it certainly looks easier to work with than the Super Metroid model.

Agreed. It's a great size that I agree on!

 

[Kenith]

Here is the size comparison Angelglory made. It compares Other M Ridley to Samus and Super Metroid Ridley. I think this seals the deal for me.
View attachment 8044
Clearly, I'm in the boat for a redesign of the Other M model, but to me it certainly looks easier to work with than the Super Metroid model.

I think the best route is to aim for a fusion of his Super Metroid and Other M designs, with the sleek look of Other M, and the feral aspect of his SM look.

 

[Morbi]

This might be a tad unexpected, but I'm posting a new roster.

I made this one last night. What is changed from my previous roster?
-Porky Minch. It was either that or Black Shadow.
-Everyone but ROB and Porky have Custom Icons or SSB4 Icons!

I am also one who supports Porky, although, against Black Shadow? F-Zero is going to get a second representative before Mother gets a third (IMO). Pokemon Trainer is probably not going to become Red, I wouldn't mind it at all though. I am loving the Waddle Dee and Tetra. I don't find Tetra entirely likely, but she might have some implied intent going for her. Overall, I really like it. Jigglypuff's icon is immaculate.

 

[Arcanir]

Well, I never stated that was the only reason. As me and Morbid are saying, it is a factor.
Promotion is most certainly a factor. I'm not making a pessimistic, "Nintendo only cares about money" sort of statement.

Popularity and promotion go hand-in hand in some cases, other times they do not.

You didn't say it was the only reason and I'm not trying to deny that may be a factor, my issue comes more from the idea that it's a particular factor that matters more then the others. There's still much more going into picking these characters then them just being promotable dolls for Nintendo, as Xenoblade said, Sakurai does this more for the art and that does show in how he picks and creates these characters for this series.

 

[Morbi]

You didn't say it was the only reason and I'm not trying to deny that may be a factor, my issue comes more from the idea that it's a particular factor that matters more then the others. There's still much more going into picking these characters then them just being promotable dolls for Nintendo, as Xenoblade said, Sakurai does this more for the art and that does show in how he picks and creates these characters for this series.

Again, that is entirely dependent on which franchise and what characters are in question. It would be blatantly obvious that Shulk or Chrom, for instance, would be included for more promotional reasons while characters like K. Rool and Ridley are more exempt from that specific factor. Some go hand and hand, such as Mewtwo, not only is he highly prominent with staggering Smash relevance, but he is promotional cat-nip.

 

[Kenith]

Again, that is entirely dependent on which franchise and what characters are in question. It would be blatantly obvious that Shulk or Chrom, for instance, would be included for more promotional reasons while characters like K. Rool and Ridley are more exempt from that specific factor. Some go hand and hand, such as Mewtwo, not only is he highly prominent with staggering Smash relevance, but he is promotional cat-nip.

Exactly as I would've said it had I not been doing to fifteen things at once.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Shulk could be used for promotion, however, he's by far more unique than Chrom could ever dream to be. In that way, Shulk is a great choice, and if Sakurai is truly looking at it as more of an art, then Shulk works out well.

 

[Gunla]

I am also one who supports Porky, although, against Black Shadow? F-Zero is going to get a second representative before Mother gets a third (IMO). Pokemon Trainer is probably not going to become Red, I wouldn't mind it at all though. I am loving the Waddle Dee and Tetra. I don't find Tetra entirely likely, but she might have some implied intent going for her. Overall, I really like it. Jigglypuff's icon is immaculate.

Just want to point out, I treat Red as PT. I just like the Red icon GoldenIcarus made better.

 

[Arcanir]

Again, that is entirely dependent on which franchise and what characters are in question. It would be blatantly obvious that Shulk or Chrom, for instance, would be included for more promotional reasons while characters like K. Rool and Ridley are more exempt from that specific factor. Some go hand and hand, such as Mewtwo, not only is he highly prominent with staggering Smash relevance, but he is promotional cat-nip.

You have a potential point with Chrom, but I don't agree with Shulk who would have more to add to the series then just promoting Xenoblade. Mewtwo's definitely a mixture of the two though.

 

[Kenith]

Shulk could be used for promotion, however, he's by far more unique that Chrom could ever dream to be. In that way, Shulk is a great choice, and if Sakurai is truly looking at it as more of an art, then Shulk works out well.

Of course you of all people would say that.

Just kidding. I think I have initiating a conflict by making everyone think I meant promotion is the only important thing.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Just want to point out, I treat Red as PT. I just like the Red icon GoldenIcarus made better.

I made a Red Icon

You have a potential point with Chrom, but I don't agree with Shulk who would have more to add to the series then just promoting Xenoblade. Mewtwo's definitely a mixture of the two though.

Honestly I like Isaac better than Shulk, mostly because I know Isaac better. And the AT

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Of course you of all people would say that.

Just kidding. I think I have initiating a conflict by making everyone think I meant promotion is the only important thing.

I support Chrom, but I have no problem that he simply doesn't offer the unique aspects that a character in the same archetype as him would offer. Shulk is an attractive option, not only for the promotion of "X", but the unique swordsmanship he can bring to the table, which would make him different from basically all swordsmen before him.

 

[SuperBrawler]

I support Chrom, but I have no problem that he simply doesn't offer the unique aspects that a character in the same archetype as him would offer. Shulk is an attractive option, not only for the promotion of "X", but the unique swordsmanship he can bring to the table, which would make him different from basically all swordsmen before him.

Can he do anything else? I heard he can look into the future or something.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Can he do anything else? I heard he can look into the future or something.

Manipulate ether, which in the context of Xenoblade Chronicles is the closest equivalent of magic.

 

[Kenith]

Okay, I have a topic that I really want to talk about, since there's no active music thread and I can talk about it this way.

What do guys think of this: Rather than stages having music set for it, instead each character has their own theme? Ala Soulcalibur V?
It would put more emphasis on characters, if they each had an associated music track.

Examples:

Mega Man: Dr. Wily Stage (Remix)
Rosalina: Gusty Garden Galaxy
Chrom: Destiny ~Ablaze

Lucario: Wild Pokemon Battle (Diamond & Pearl)
Sonic: Wonder World
Wario: Greenhorn Forest

 

[SuperBrawler]

Manipulate ether, which in the context of Xenoblade Chronicles is the closest equivalent of magic.

Ok. I don't really have anything else to say about it.

Okay, I have a topic that I really want to talk about, since there's no active music thread and I can talk about it this way.

What do guys think of this: Rather than stages having music set for it, instead each character has their own theme? Ala Soulcalibur V?
It would put more emphasis on characters, if they each had an associated music track.

Examples:

Mega Man: Dr. Wily Stage (Remix)
Rosalina: Gusty Garden Galaxy
Chrom: Destiny ~Ablaze

Lucario: Wild Pokemon Battle (Diamond & Pearl)
Sonic: Wonder World
Wario: Greenhorn Forest

How would it work? Would it play the music of a random character that is being used?

 

[Kenith]

How would it work? Would it play the music of a random character that is being used?

No, you would select the music before a match. Alternatively, you could set it to be a random track.
But each character has an associated theme, like in Melee with Young Link and Saria's Song, and Marth/Roy and Fire Emblem.

 

[SmasherMaster]

I am still making graphic changes to my roster.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Here is the size comparison Angelglory made. It compares Other M Ridley to Samus and Super Metroid Ridley. I think this seals the deal for me.

View attachment 8044

Clearly, I'm in the boat for a redesign of the Other M model, but to me it certainly looks easier to work with than the Super Metroid model.

I would like to see them merge both models. Other M's model looks....just odd but I think integrating them both would be good for the character. Maybe that would make the character look less awkward (as some may say) in terms of playability.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I would like to see them merge both models. Other M's model looks....just odd but I think integrating them both would be good for the character. Maybe that would make the character look less awkward (as some may say) in terms of playability.

Honestly, I think if they made the Other M version as dark as the Brawl model and then made the webbing of the wings orange, he would look badass.

 

[Kenith]

The only thing that makes Ridley awkwardly shaped is that pesky neck. Seriously, why does he have that?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Honestly, I think if they made the Other M version as dark as the Brawl model and then made the webbing of the wings orange, he would look badass.

Yeah, it would be pretty cool. I would like to see though more musculature on Ridley with his arms and neck. I can see why it might look a bit awkward in a Smash setting so many beefing them up (not to Other M levels) might help out a bit.

But seriously, I am not against a large Ridley. I know people say they can downsize him while others say they he can't. Why not make him the largest character, easy to hit but hard to juggle, and have air superiority?

The only thing that makes Ridley awkwardly shaped is that pesky neck. Seriously, why does he have that?

His father was a dragon and his mother was a goose?

 

[Kenith]

Yeah, it would be pretty cool. I would like to see though more musculature on Ridley with his arms and neck. I can see why it might look a bit awkward in a Smash setting so many beefing them up (not to Other M levels) might help out a bit.

But seriously, I am not against a large Ridley. I know people say they can downsize him while others say they he can't. Why not make him the largest character, easy to hit but hard to juggle, and have air superiority?

His father was a dragon and his mother was a goose?

I've always though this. Having Ridley as by far the largest character would make him unique, instantly.

A slug on the ground, a demon in the air. Nobody else does that. No one except...

Spoiler

Spoiler

But only in Melee.

 

[Xhampi]

I do wish this thread was more...lively.

I'm hiding personnaly, there is 2 Wesker here, too dangerous for me right now

I've always though this. Having Ridley as by far the largest character would make him unique, instantly.

A slug on the ground, a demon in the air. Nobody else does that. No one except...

Spoiler

Spoiler

But only in Melee.

Stay out of the way of this dragon you mean fairy D=<

 

[Jaedrik]

I find it hard to say about Anna because let's face it, in FE14 she could easily go back to Secret Shop/Link Arena thing girl and not do anything else.

The sum of her roles! Importance to the series! Not recency of defining roles! Surely that is what Sakurai cares about, aye? Relevance matters not a whit, as has been demonstrated innumerable times by our fine friends here at Smashboards.