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Character Discussion Thread

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N3ON

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I'm more surprised Saturn still thinks that Sakurai wouldn't use the staff for her moveset, the source material is there, why wouldn't he go for it at this point? Plus with the newcomers shown it's clear that he is focusing on making them stand out from the rest. So if Krystal does end up being playable, you can bet Sakurai is going to use that staff to it's fullest.
Exactly. Kinda silly to suggest Sakurai would give her a moveset any SF could have when she has so much potential unique to her because "it's not relevant", when even that part isn't true.

I wanted to bring up a different subject, If I could.

We all know that Smash Bros. 4 will also coincide with the 3DS. Now I was wondering if we would get a character to represent the handhelds that are available on the system. No, I don't mean someone from an already popular franchise, like Chrom ( please don't hurt me,) but I mean a character like Dillon, who has a succesful game in terms of e-shop standards. I'm not sure if this would happen, but it certainly would be a nice homage to the 3DS exclusives. (not to mention Dillon would work so well as a character.)
I don't see why Sakurai would change precedent over a character like Dillon (or any other character from an IP exclusive to the 3DS) considering previously characters have always been included due to who they are, not what platform they stem from, excluding G&W, who isn't comparable to Dillon. Of the characters from series solely on the 3DS Dillon is... probably the best choice, but in general he's a ways down, and given history I don't see Sakurai making such an arbitrary distinction.
 

andimidna

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I know I'm the only Zelda fan present, but I have to ask.
Which of these is a better choice?


Both one-offs that a lot of people like(d).
If you ask me about 2 characters and one of them is Midna, my inner bias will scream Midna without a 2nd thought. But I like the idea of her with Wolf Link, the moves she does without Wolf Link could all still be incorporated, and it's the form more common throughout the game. I don't think her true form needs to be in the game... so I have come to the conclusion that Link and Toon Link are too similar, and need to be differentiated. And the fact that we had TP Link doing a made up move as a Final Smash in Brawl makes me cringe, however, like Samus's Zero Laser, it could still return, and Link could transform into Wolf Link afterwards. Wolf Link and Midna makes more sense than people like to give credit for. Companions are a big part of the franchise, and representing the most hated one as a taunt isn't too exciting. Sheik and ZSS show how much of a possibility this still is. WW Link should also have a WW Final Smash... it makes more sense to represent one game rather than no games.

Ghirahim would be great as a 5th slot. It's up to Sakurai on this one. He's my 2nd most wanted Zelda newcomer. I could see SS Impa being added, my 3rd most wanted, but I just don't know... his moveset would definitely be easier to make.
I think a character from Skyward Sword is much better than another toon let-down. People give too much credit to the addition of Tingle, Toon Zelda, Tetra, and Vaati. They all have better reasons than being a one-time character to be not included.
 

Frostwraith

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As someone who's played almost every Zelda game (currently playing A Link Between Worlds), how about no Zelda newcomer?

That said, I wouldn't mind a newcomer, but honestly I'm not expecting one. I don't see any possible newcomer bringing something new, unlike the other newcomers.
 

G0LD3N L0TUS

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As someone who's played almost every Zelda game (currently playing A Link Between Worlds), how about no Zelda newcomer?

That said, I wouldn't mind a newcomer, but honestly I'm not expecting one. I don't see any possible newcomer bringing something new, unlike the other newcomers.
If we were to get a Zelda newcomer, I think Tingle would definitely be the most interesting.
 

andimidna

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I would actually disagree with this. I think the amount of representation a series receives is a rather important aspect. Sure, a series may have plenty of good characters that can be utilized in Smash. But does it really deserve all of them? Star Fox is still a pretty small series, and the only series to ever even reach four representatives are Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon, Nintendo's biggest series by far. If we start adding all these characters from smaller series, the roster starts to become a little unfocused and unbalanced. The actual character could be fine for Smash, as they could have plenty of popularity and potential as a fighter, but I think the issue of "is this character really necessary" plays a part as well (sort of like what happened with Ashley).
Sure, that could play a role in roster speculation by fans. But think about what Sakurai's perspective would be. I see no possibility that's taken into account.
The amount of series with 4 reps... we don't know yet. Maybe DK and FE could have 4 too, then it would look fine, not that it even needs to look fine.
It's all about the individual character. And I don't think this relates to Ashley at all...
 

MagnesD3

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Good roster. Just a few complaints

  1. Diddy & Dixie you can bet isn't happening considering there was a newcomer reveal on DKCTF that had nothing to do with them. Seems like the perfect time to reveal them if it was actually happening. I would put Dixie in K. Rool's spot.
  2. There exists no real reason for Sin & Punishment to get a character. There is nothing significant about this franchise.
  3. I don't see what is significant about Krystal either. She's not very important to her franchise and we're likely not getting another Star Fox character considering the last 3 were semi-clones of each other. Having Krystal in there just doesn't fit at all especially since she's the only character who you propose does not stay true to her modern scheme. As long as a character shares significant similarities and is perfectly capable of performing the same abilities, there has never been a case where they haven't. So I don't understand why Krystal would be the first exception to break this trend when she's basically a Female version of Fox with blue fur and a pink outfit. The only thing close to an exception was Rosalina, but she was never really capable of being a Peach clone to begin with so I don't think that really counts. Krystal on the other hand is capable of doing literally everything Fox can do and exactly as he does it. If you're going to propose Krystal's staff you might as well propose Luigi's entire move set be based on the Poltergust. Which it isn't so....
So yeah, I would replace Krystal with Samurai Goroh seeing as he's a moderately popular Nintendo villain from an underepped classic franchise that is popular in Smash. Sakurai certainly cares about representation, he stated that's practically why Zero Suit Samus got in.

Saki I would replace with Takamaru. You're kind of required to have at least one retro considering Sakurai is trying to bring back more old characters this time. So we might even get 2.
The diddy/dixie thing may or may not happen, it was sakurai's original idea for them as well as it being congruent with the actual game series.

Sin and punishment has 2 great games, both available on the wii system, saki has a cult japan following, saki was an assist trophy in brawl, saki would have a unique moveset, and Sand P has no character representation in ssb so far and it would seem that in ssb4 that he is targeting different series than ones already installed in the smash bros universe, so I consider saki to be a great pick.

As for Krystal Im not gonna try and change your mind since its already made up, she's popular, she has a unique and packaged moveset just sitting there waiting to be used, she has been playable in sf as well as being an important member of starfox with the use of telepathy and is fox's love interest in the series, and she also adds more female representation (which really doesnt matter but Id thought id put it down anyway). I think she has a fairly good shot of making it in, her problems are the fact there hasnt been a new sf since command and she has a ton of haters. She definately is staying.

As for takamauru I think he has a shot but there is no patterens you can form except that he might be the retro character so its hard to call with him. As for goroh he is worthy but he just doesnt have enough popularity to back him up as well as the f zero series being left alone in brawl kinda hurts him since his game is good but small, he does have the assist trophy going for him though, we will see where he ends up.
 

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I think I misunderstood the narrator in his trailer. I guess Megaman 2 is where the DESIGN came from.
His character design was the same in all of the NES games. If that's what you are talking about. Though Megaman does have quite a few attacks from Megaman 2.
 

andimidna

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If we were to get a Tingle newcomer, I think Tingle would definitely be the most interesting.
fix'd
I've argued this too many times.
Tingle would need to be based off his own games, therefore he would be classified as a Tingle character, as his series is not canon to Zelda.
It's very similar to Yoshi's situation.
Yoshi can't get a moveset based of Mario games, he doesn't have attacks. But in his own games, he does, and he works that way. So I think if Tingle were added, it wouldn't affect the 5th Zelda slot.
 

False Sense

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Sure, that could play a role in roster speculation by fans. But think about what Sakurai's perspective would be. I see no possibility that's taken into account.
The amount of series with 4 reps... we don't know yet. Maybe DK and FE could have 4 too, then it would look fine, not that it even needs to look fine.
It's all about the individual character. And I don't think this relates to Ashley at all...
Well, we can't really say for sure what Sakurai's thought process is for deciding how many reps a series gets, but I would be pretty hesitant to say that there's "no possibility" that that's taken into account.

Also, would you say that Ashley wasn't a unique and popular character? If it's all about the individual character, why did she not get in?
 

JamesDNaux

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So, including Dixie as part of a team is insulting her, but not including her at all is perfectly fine?
Source to how that alienates Diddy mains in the slightest?
DKC2 is enough reason, it worked then, and was supposed to be in Brawl.

She seems to be the 3rd most important DK character as of right now. And Cranky the 4th. If Nintendo doesn't even have the desire to return him in DK, I don't see him getting in for one reason only, being requested.

Where did you see he was the most requested newcomer? I'm pretty doubtful of that, but if its a poll started before the character reveals for tropical freeze, I'd be less surprised. If old games can't affect this one, why are you adding King K Rool?
See, this is the problem, you can't please everyone all of the time. I previously had both Dixie and K. Rool on my roster, but I dropped Dixie in favour of adding Shulk.

Yes, shoving Dixie on Diddy is insulting, as it implies she isn't good enough to be her own character, and yes, I'd much rather not have her at all than to have her stuck to Diddy. It would be like Luigi being shoved on Mario instead of being his own character, you would never be able to play as either one alone, you'd be stuck with one you don't want there following you.

I'm not even a Diddy main and I would be bothered by it, because I loved how Diddy was in Brawl. If he just randomly spouted an extra monkey that completely changes his mechanics then he would barely resemble his past self.

The thing I meant about it being in the old games, is that everyone thinks Dixie is more likely than K. Rool because she had a recent appearance in Tropical Freeze. Now if she's more likely because of a new game, then she's not going to be shoved onto Diddy like in an old game, particularly when they cannot pair up in the new game, if in fact the new game is why she's in.

She's certainly not the third most important character, and I'd say Cranky is more important than her too. K. Rool has been the main antagonist more times than Dixie has been playable. And Nintendo won't just stop him from getting in, remember this is Sakurai, not Nintendo as a whole here, Sakurai went as far as to include Snake just because his friend asked him to, so even if Nintendo doesn't want K. Rool around, surely Sakurai would add him because of his demand.

K. Rool, on average, is the most requested newcomer when combining multiple different results. Ridley would be very close to being more requested than K. Rool if it weren't for the fact that no one in Japan cares for him, but they do want K. Rool. And just because he's not in Tropical Freeze doesn't mean he's any less requested, remember that Mega Man was practically dead and a third party character to boot, but people kept hounding for his inclusion because they love him, the very reason K. Rool is on top right now is because everyone above him is already in, and there are still many people that love him from the original trilogy and who have wanted him in Smash for a very long time now.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Sin and punishment has 2 great games, both available on the wii system, saki has a cult japan following, saki was an assist trophy in brawl, saki would have a unique moveset, and Sand P has no character representation in ssb so far and it would seem that in ssb4 that he is targeting different series than ones already installed in the smash bros universe, so I consider saki to be a great pick.
Eh...I think you're overstating the importance.

I'd argue both Golden Sun and Xenoblade Chronicles have bigger followings, more requests (especially for Shulk in Japan) they would also have a unique moveset (like a lot of different newcomers) and neither of the previous two I listed have playable representation.

I see what you're getting at, but none of that give Saki a leg up on the other two. If I'm being honest, I think Shulk gets the upper hand here because of his prominence in Japan and the "cult" popularity in NA.
 

Kenith

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Out of those two, Ghirahim.

But Vaati over both, imo.
Didn't ask for Vaati, but thanks.
One time characters.

As someone who's played almost every Zelda game (currently playing A Link Between Worlds), how about no Zelda newcomer?

That said, I wouldn't mind a newcomer, but honestly I'm not expecting one. I don't see any possible newcomer bringing something new, unlike the other newcomers.
I'm not either. But I want one. Isn't that enough for you??

If you ask me about 2 characters and one of them is Midna, my inner bias will scream Midna without a 2nd thought. But I like the idea of her with Wolf Link, the moves she does without Wolf Link could all still be incorporated, and it's the form more common throughout the game. I don't think her true form needs to be in the game... so I have come to the conclusion that Link and Toon Link are too similar, and need to be differentiated. And the fact that we had TP Link doing a made up move as a Final Smash in Brawl makes me cringe, however, like Samus's Zero Laser, it could still return, and Link could transform into Wolf Link afterwards. Wolf Link and Midna makes more sense than people like to give credit for. Companions are a big part of the franchise, and representing the most hated one as a taunt isn't too exciting. Sheik and ZSS show how much of a possibility this still is. WW Link should also have a WW Final Smash... it makes more sense to represent one game rather than no games.

Ghirahim would be great as a 5th slot. It's up to Sakurai on this one. He's my 2nd most wanted Zelda newcomer. I could see SS Impa being added, my 3rd most wanted, but I just don't know... his moveset would definitely be easier to make.
I think a character from Skyward Sword is much better than another toon let-down. People give too much credit to the addition of Tingle, Toon Zelda, Tetra, and Vaati. They all have better reasons than being a one-time character to be not included.
I don't want three Links necessarily, I would like Midna to be on her own.

If we were to get a Zelda newcomer, I think Tingle would definitely be the most interesting.
He would also be the most divided. I don't hate Tingle. But I don't he should be playable. If he was grouped as his own series, like Yoshi or Wario, I'd be fine. But he's only a Zelda character, he's not nearly as deserving.
 

andimidna

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As someone who's played almost every Zelda game (currently playing A Link Between Worlds), how about no Zelda newcomer?

That said, I wouldn't mind a newcomer, but honestly I'm not expecting one. I don't see any possible newcomer bringing something new, unlike the other newcomers.
I could see at least 10 bring many new things... what are you even talking about?
 

MagnesD3

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Eh...I think you're overstating the importance.

I'd argue both Golden Sun and Xenoblade Chronicles have bigger followings, more requests (especially for Shulk in Japan) they would also have a unique moveset (like a lot of different newcomers) and neither of the previous two I listed have playable representation.

I see what you're getting at, but none of that give Saki a leg up on the other two. If I'm being honest, I think Shulk gets the upper hand here because of his prominence in Japan and the "cult" popularity in NA.
I didnt bring it up in that post but I have said in other posts I think Saki, Isaac and Shulk (the blonde trio) have the same chance of getting in, I feel only 1 will get in this time though (would love all of dem do). I want saki the most so I put saki.
 

Minato Arisato

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I don't care WHO they add if they put Chrom in. I've noticed a trend here. Spirit Tracks stage, we get Toon Link. Punch-Out stage, we got Little Mac. Now that I've seen what is unmistakably Arena Ferox, I'm just hoping to whatever deity is out there that Chrom is in.

Or...actually...whoever is a newcomer gets their own nifty video, like the other newcomers. I think I'll just sit back and enjoy whoever is revealed next.
 

Bowserlick

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I'd say Ghirahim or Tingle if there neeeeeeds to be another Zelda slot. Please no Toon Zelda.
 

N3ON

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Without starting an Isaac vs. Shulk thing, I will say both have much better chances than Saki. S&P is no where near the other two series, even with Xenoblade's sole game.
 

Will

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Without starting an Isaac vs. Shulk thing, I will say both have much better chances than Saki. S&P is no where near the other two series, even with Xenoblade's sole game.
Cogratulations.

I think you just started something that didn't even start yet.
 

Minato Arisato

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Without starting an Isaac vs. Shulk thing, I will say both have much better chances than Saki. S&P is no where near the other two series, even with Xenoblade's sole game.
Maybe they'll make an Assist Trophy again? Even though it might get a lot of grief and rage from some fans.
 

BluePikmin11

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Diddy + Dixie doesn't sound insulting to me, and I don't think Sakurai thinks the same.
Unless the character makes no logical sense such as Chrom+Starfy.
But then again we have Rosalina+Luma, but not from a very illogical standpoint.
I hate that when you say Ganon,people sort of agree,but when I do,I get insults. Insults everywhere.
The fact people say "Why not give Ganon a trident?" annoys me, when he's likely not going to have a trident at all.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I didnt bring it up in that post but I have said in other posts I think Saki, Isaac and Shulk (the blonde trio) have the same chance of getting in, I feel only 1 will get in this time though (would love all of dem do). I want saki the most so I put saki.
Ah. That's understandable. However, do consider that Xenoblade is getting a spiritual successor in "X", which Nintendo is taking pride in for sure. Not to mention that Xenoblade also received a Puzzle Swap board, something that Pandora's Tower, The Last Story, Golden Sun, nor Sin & Punishment were able to do. Not to mention that very few series outside the important series, such as Mario, DK, FE, Zelda...get those. The only notable ones not in that category are CHibi-Robo, and Xenoblade.

I'm not necessarily trying to convince you to replace Saki with Shulk, but I'm just showing the flip side of the coin.
 

Knight Dude

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Demise (or Demise/Ghirahim) or Impa or Midna/Wolf link for a Zelda character no one else.
Demise isn't even needed. We've got Ganondorf, and he's a pretty badass dude. All he needs is a few more original attacks and general buffs.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Without starting an Isaac vs. Shulk thing, I will say both have much better chances than Saki. S&P is no where near the other two series, even with Xenoblade's sole game.
I'd have to agree with @ N3ON N3ON here. While I personally think Shulk has the best chances, (I do support him after all) I think Sin & Punishment has little going for it. It's become pretty obscure if you ask me, and doesn't appear to garner a whole lot of interest. Not to mention there aren't any plans for the series to continue.
 

Fire Emblemier

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I don't care WHO they add if they put Chrom in. I've noticed a trend here. Spirit Tracks stage, we get Toon Link. Punch-Out stage, we got Little Mac. Now that I've seen what is unmistakably Arena Ferox, I'm just hoping to whatever deity is out there that Chrom is in.

Or...actually...whoever is a newcomer gets their own nifty video, like the other newcomers. I think I'll just sit back and enjoy whoever is revealed next.
Stages don't mean anything, look at the Animal Crossing Stage in Brawl. Plus, Chrom seems kind of redundant with Marth and hopefully Ike are in the game. If anyone represents the Arena, it should be Lucina, she was the boss there after all. And represents Awakening a lot more. With being used to promote it a lot and even on FE polls being the most popular lord behind Ike. She is also on polls the most popular character in Awakening.
 
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N3ON

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Why do you say that?
Well even though Isaac's popularity in Japan is not what it once was, pre-Brawl it was much higher than Saki's. Post Brawl Shulk's is much higher than Saki's.

In the west Saki is relatively (or at least comparatively) unknown, his series only had a measure of success on the VC, and both others are more popular.

Not to mention, at least with GS, that the series in terms of audience size is several times larger. Even Xenoblade's might be... it certainly fared better than Star Successor.

People like to bring up Sakurai's bias in regards to Saki... but Sakurai has never stated affinity for Saki personally or anything, and more importantly even the characters Sakurai does state he as an affinity for don't wind up included unless they have many other factors in their favour. I mean the character Sakurai wanted most in Smash since 64 still hasn't been included, and probably won't be this time either.

I don't see any area in which Saki has more in his favour than either Isaac, Shulk, or in many cases both tbh. I fully agree he'd be a cool character with a great moveset, but so would the other two, and they do have more going for them.
 

Will

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I really want demise, he is just as cool as ganon and if you want you can have ghirahim be apart of his moveset, (Jojo stances!)
Demise kind of gets the same treatment of Magnus.

Ike Syndrome.
 

Curious Villager

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Bleh, Zelda discussions.....

I agree with Andimidna. If Tingle were to be made playable, he'd most likely be representing his own series and not Zelda. So he'd be filling in the Zelda slot about as much as Yoshi fills in the Mario slot really. :/
 

N3ON

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Maybe they'll make an Assist Trophy again? Even though it might get a lot of grief and rage from some fans.
That would be my guess. Although I'd like to see Saki return as the AT, honestly I think Isa would make a better one, what with the jetpack and all.

Plus grief and rage pretty much comes with the territory, not all the series can get playable representation. Look at Starfy, and he had more going for him than Saki.
 
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