Character Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

Can someone please tell me why all of the sudden you have to have connections with Nintendo to be a third party addition. Last time I checked you had to be a popular, requested, and unique character that appeared on a Nintendo console.

THAT'S IT!

Because connections to the people making the game has gotten a character included in the past. There's no rules for third-party video game character inclusion past having to appear on a Nintendo platform, and being requested is one way to get included, but it's not the only way. You don't have to look past the first third-party character in Smash to see that.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Funny how Sakurai can pull material for movesets out of thin air and base movesets around attacks the character isn't even capable of in their game but Krystal wielding a weapon she's actually known to be capable of using in the game she played her biggest role in isn't "relevant" enough to base a moveset around for Saturn.

I don't find that funny at all. In fact it's completely accurate unless you've never played Smash before.

Also, BIGGEST ROLE? Wasn't her role reminiscent of Han Solo trapped in carbonite? As apposed to in the more popular titles known as Assault & Command where she was a part of the Star Fox team and actually significant to the plot? Both of which her staff and powers and practically anything from Adventures was non existent with the exception of a stage.

I find the claim you made to be rather funny.

Then how do you explain ****ing FLUDD?

FLUDD is one move. Maybe I should refer you back to the post you are ironically replying to.

You've heard wrong. Move sets are never entirely based on one irrelevant ability/weapon of a character. For good reason.

 

[Kenith]

Fun fact: Miyamoto had always said that Pac-Man was his favorite game not made by Nintendo.
When Shigeru Miyamoto of all people gives you props; you're pretty much a big deal.
Again; he also paved the way for video game mascots to come into being. Before him there was just fricking Pong and Space Invaders.
Even if that's the case; Snake. ****ing Snake. He has supporters and haters and even LESS connection to Nintendo.

He's also said he would make a Halo game if given the opportunity. Miyamoto is a great man, but his words aren't gold.

And whether or not someone "paved the way for video game mascots" seems subjective.

Just like with every other character that has a hatebase, Sakurai is unaffected.

Like who?

You know, Super Smash Bros. marketing Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, and Megaman in the game is a great way to make Smash Bros. sell millions.

According the most recent poll by Shortie (who's info I trust at this level, this is where Pacman sits: Low Tier:

Spoiler

Low Tier
· Waluigi 675
· Paper Mario 649
· Shulk (Xenoblade) 616
· Banjo & Kazooie 606
· Pac-Man 593
· Majora (Skull Kid) 564
· Ghirahim 556
· 2nd Sonic Character (Tails, Shadow, Knuckles) 524
· Bomberman 525
· Samurai Goroh 521
· Black Shadow 513

So Waluigi is actually more requested than Pacman? And Mega Man was at over 1000, the most requested character, where Pacman has always sat comfortably at the low end.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

So jetpack and peanut popper would be gone by default? No. Not in my ideas for the team anyways.
I see peanut popper now working as Diddy points the Peanut popper in one direction, and Dixie points the BubbleGun in the opposite direction. Diddy not affected, only enhanced. This is how I'd think most of the moves would work
If Sakurai has something against large rosters, we may see more things added to original characters, rather than new slots. Seeing as how the newcomers so far are so unique, the veterans will look uninteresting IMO.
And I've met some Diddy mains that request this as their #1 want. So don't think want vs not want is split up between Diddy main vs doesn't play as Diddy.

It's still very similar to ICs in my honest opinion. But, whatever floats your boat. I just don't see it happening.

Anyways, Krystal is a character I really would like to see in Smash Bros.

 

[Baskerville]

How do you explain missing the word entirely in that sentence?

Too slow on the draw there, kiddo.
@SaturnGamer64 Clearly you forgot the "never" part of that post.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The roster is unaffected by the most recent poll you know.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Speaking of Nintendo Direct reveals, it's between Takamaru and Corn an Awakening character because of their respective anniversaries being on the same month (April). I'm pretty 50/50 on what might happen, but FE logically gets the most priority because it is much more famous.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Because connections to the people making the game has gotten a character included in the past. There's no rules for third-party video game character inclusion past having to appear on a Nintendo platform, and being requested is one way to get included, but it's not the only way. You don't have to look past the first third-party character in Smash to see that.

That's actually not true. It's never been stated that Sonic and Mega Man's inclusion had anything to do with their ties to Nintendo and Sakurai actually has stated you have to have appeared on a Nintendo console.

@SaturnGamer64 Clearly you forgot the "never" part of that post.

Clearly you forgot the "entirely" part of my post. Which in combined with the term "never" is actually accurate.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Speaking of Nintendo Direct reveals, it's between Takamaru and Corn an Awakening character because of their respective anniversaries being on the same month (April). I'm pretty 50/50 on what might happen, but FE logically gets the most priority because it is much more famous.

In April I'm expecting Wario, since that's his only chance to be shown, to coincide with Mario Kart 8.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Yoshi needs to be revealed like now

 

[Gunla]

Yoshi needs to be revealed like now

March 14 or sometime this summer, likely the ladder. Release dates and all are Sakurai's metagame.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Speaking of Nintendo Direct reveals, it's between Takamaru and Corn an Awakening character because of their respective anniversaries being on the same month (April). I'm pretty 50/50 on what might happen, but FE logically gets the most priority because it is much more famous.

I expect a troll newcomer reveal on April 1st, just because.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Yoshi needs to be revealed like now

When does the new Yoshi game come out? Cause that's my bet on his reveal.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Just because something never happened before doesn't mean it can't happen in the future.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Yoshi needs to be revealed like now

Too bad, Yoshi's New Island won't be out until summer in Japan and Sakurai only focuses on Japanese releases for reveals. Sad, but true.

 

[Kenith]

The roster is unaffected by the most recent poll you know.

Well, the results have been similar for many of his earlier polls.

I'm getting a bit of a bias from your post. He's still a big gaming icon from the past and that does still carry a good amount of weight to it, particularly to older fans who did enjoy those arcade games and respect him for the contributions he's given to gaming. Yes, he wouldn't make as many people as happy as those two did, but he would still make a lot of people happy regardless and get a lot of attention to himself.

Likewise. Because why would someone be so adamant about Pacman's inclusion if not for their bias towards him? Don't belittle me with that word, we're all biased.

I don't hate Pacman at all. However, I do hate it when I list many big reasons why the other two important third-parties have good reasons for their inclusion, and the only thing anyone ever responds with is that he's "iconic" or that he was in Mario Kart.
They completely skip over key parts of my rant....

 

[BluePikmin11]

Too bad, Yoshi's New Island won't be out until summer in Japan and Sakurai only focuses on Japanese releases for reveals. Sad, but true.

But March 14 would mark the day Yoshi's New Island releases first in the U.S., and not in Japan.
So I think a Yoshi reveal is very much possible on that day, or at least around the week when the Year of Yoshi is announced.

 

[Gunla]

But March 14 would mark the day Yoshi's New Island releases first in the U.S., and not in Japan.
So I think a Yoshi reveal is very much possible on that day, or at least around the week when the Year of Yoshi is announced.

That is if Sakurai wants to take advantage of American release dates. Time will tell, especially tomorrow.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

But March 14 would mark the day Yoshi's New Island releases first in the U.S., and not in Japan.
So I think a Yoshi reveal is very much possible on that day, or at least around the week when the Year of Yoshi is announced.

The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds says hi!

 

[andimidna]

Twilight Princess Zelda, and she he has Dins Fire, Farore's Wind, and Nayru's Love. And she used none of that in TP. (I think)
Just saying.

That's true. In Twilight Princess, Zelda only really fights with her sword. She also has Light Orbs, Light Arrows, And Light Floor Triforce magic things. Her magic is all made up of one element. And it's the most she's ever fought. She uses magic only used by OoT Link in SSB. What isn't possible?

 

[N3ON]

I don't find that funny at all. In fact it's completely accurate unless you've never played Smash before.

What else is completely accurate is Sakurai typically includes characters with the fighting style they're most associated with (should they have one), bar clones. If he intends to include Krystal, and he intends to make her unique, you think he's going to pass up on a staff-based moveset no other character would have because she didn't use it in every appearance? When looking for original movesets, he obviously prioritizes individuality, and with her staff that's something Krystal is capable of and associated with that none of the other SF characters are. Why would he just give her a moveset any of the other three could have when she has her own material to work with?

Do you really mean to say if this were pre-Brawl you'd be calling the staff "irrelevant"? You'd be one of the only ones. Because it's just as relevant now to her character as it was then.

Also, BIGGEST ROLE? Wasn't her role reminiscent of Han Solo trapped in carbonite? As apposed to in Assault & Command where she was a part of the Star Fox team and actually significant to the plot? Both of which her staff and powers and practically anything from Adventures was non existent with the exception of a stage.

Yes, the importance the game gave her, and the fact that several parts of the game revolved around her to a much greater extent than Assault or Command does make it a bigger role than her two following supporting ones. Importance isn't measured solely in presence.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well there goes that plan for the 3DS game. :/
But there's still the inevitable Year of Yoshi for him to be revealed.

 

[andimidna]

Most, and that's still eight different weapons right there.

And I'm not complaining. I think it was the best way to go. Recent isn't always ideal simply because it's recent.

 

[YoshiandToad]

He's also said he would make a Halo game if given the opportunity. Miyamoto is a great man, but his words aren't gold.

And whether or not someone "paved the way for video game mascots" seems subjective.

Not that subjective really though KenithMyGoodSir.

Pac-Mania pretty much gripped the world at one point in the 80s much like Pokemon did in the late 90s, and influenced more and more video game mascots to be created based on just how damn marketable he was. Before his existence there weren't anything as lofty as video game characters, just functional sprites like a triangle that shot lasers or a line that was a paddle. Pac-Man was the trend setter for giving these sprites personalities and character.

Let's not forget each ghost was also programmed to behave in a unique way (at the time revolutionary) which gave them individual quirks actually in-game as well(and not just in a text screen like so many did before)
There were the very first video game cut-scenes in between each round that showed off some personality and character to each of the enemies and Pac-Man himself. He was very much THE first Video game Character.

Honestly Pac-Man's influence runs far deeper than many here give him credit for, and as such I do feel he deserves the spot more than any other third party not currently included.

Regarding Miyamoto's words; he's stated that Pac-Man is his favourite Video Game character of all time a few times. Even if he's also said a bunch of bizarre crap that's still a big deal considering he created Japan's number one video game character.

 

[N3ON]

That's actually not true. It's never been stated that Sonic and Mega Man's inclusion had anything to do with their ties to Nintendo and Sakurai actually has stated you have to have appeared on a Nintendo console.

I never stated that Sonic and Mega Man were included due to their ties with Nintendo...

Plus I said past appearing on a Nintendo platform, there are no rules. Perhaps re-read the post.

 

[Arcanir]

Likewise. Because why would someone be so adamant about Pacman's inclusion if not for their bias towards him? Don't belittle me with that word, we're all biased.

I don't hate Pacman at all. However, I do hate it when I list many big reasons why the other two important third-parties have good reasons for their inclusion, and the only thing anyone ever responds with is that he's "iconic" or that he was in Mario Kart.
They completely skip over key parts of my rant....

Personally I don't care either way for Pac-Man, the reason I'm arguing is that I don't agree with your points against the character. I'm not saying he matches Sonic or Mega Man, but I will say he does have his own good points in his own right and those could win him over in getting into Smash. Will they? I don't know, but they are present if Sakurai decides to pick him for those reasons.

 

[Joe D.]

I wanted to bring up a different subject, If I could.

We all know that Smash Bros. 4 will also coincide with the 3DS. Now I was wondering if we would get a character to represent the handhelds that are available on the system. No, I don't mean someone from an already popular franchise, like Chrom ( please don't hurt me,) but I mean a character like Dillon, who has a succesful game in terms of e-shop standards. I'm not sure if this would happen, but it certainly would be a nice homage to the 3DS exclusives. (not to mention Dillon would work so well as a character.)

 

[Kenith]

Not that subjective really though KenithMyGoodSir.
Pac-Mania pretty much gripped the world at one point in the 80s much like Pokemon did in the late 90s, and influenced more and more video game mascots to be created based on just how damn marketable he was. Before his existence there weren't anything as lofty as video game characters, just functional sprites like a triangle that shot lasers or a line that was a paddle. Pac-Man was the trend setter for giving these sprites personalities and character.
Let's not forget each ghost was also programmed to behave in a unique way (at the time revolutionary) which gave them individual quirks actually in-game as well(and not just in a text screen like so many did before)
There were the very first video game cut-scenes in between each round that showed off some personality and character to each of the enemies and Pac-Man himself. He was very much THE first Video game Character.
Honestly Pac-Man's influence runs far deeper than many here give him credit for, and as such I do feel he deserves the spot more than any other third party not currently included.
Regarding Miyamoto's words; he's stated that Pac-Man is his favourite Video Game character of all time a few times. Even if he's also said a bunch of bizarre crap that's still a big deal considering he created Japan's number one video game character.

So because Pacman is so iconic and was the first "character" in gaming, he automatically has to be in?
Well, I say they should put Superman in the next Avengers, since he was the first real "superhero". I don't get what you're saying.

I'll take your word for it on Miyamoto. But it's still doesn't make Pacman a given.

Personally I don't care either way for Pac-Man, the reason I'm arguing is that I don't agree with your points against the character. I'm not saying he matches Sonic or Mega Man, but I will say he does have his own good points in his own right and those could win him over in getting into Smash. Will they? I don't know, but they are present if Sakurai decides to pick him for those reasons.

And I'm saying subsequent third-parties are unlikely as is, and unless Pacman is on Sonic/Mega Man's level, he probably won't get in.

Can we stop talking about Pacman? It's a waste of time.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I wanted to bring up a different subject, If I could.

We all know that Smash Bros. 4 will also coincide with the 3DS. Now I was wondering if we would get a character to represent the handhelds that are available on the system. No, I don't mean someone from an already popular franchise, like Chrom ( please don't hurt me,) but I mean a character like Dillon, who has a succesful game in terms of e-shop standards. I'm not sure if this would happen, but it certainly would be a nice homage to the 3DS exclusives. (not to mention Dillon would work so well as a character.)

I was thinking the same too, personally I think it just makes handheld characters more notable to Sakurai.
If I were to choose, these would be the characters.
For retros:
Consoles: Takamaru
Handhelds: Prince Sable

And for Currently popular franchises:
Consoles: Wii Fit Trainer
Handhelds: Dr. Kawashima

And maybe for third parties:
Consoles: Bayonetta
Handhelds: Professor Layton

 

[Baskerville]

I'm more surprised Saturn still thinks that Sakurai wouldn't use the staff for her moveset, the source material is there, why wouldn't he go for it at this point? Plus with the newcomers shown it's clear that he is focusing on making them stand out from the rest. So if Krystal does end up being playable, you can bet Sakurai is going to use that staff to it's fullest.

 

[andimidna]

It's still very similar to ICs in my honest opinion. But, whatever floats your boat. I just don't see it happening.

Anyways, Krystal is a character I really would like to see in Smash Bros.

What is that similar to in their moveset? They don't have guns. It'd be less similar than Marth and Ike.

I also would like to see Krystal in Smash Bros... My bets on a new Starfox this E3... that'd take away the only reason to not call her likely. I don't think "4 reps is too much" is a convincing argument, I sure hope Sakurai doesn't add characters and not add characters simply because the franchise already has a good amount amount of reps. The actual character, fanbase, and moveset are much more important IMO. I do acknowledge those 3 aren't everything, but I think the focus is originality, and trying to make people happy.

 

[YoshiandToad]

So because Pacman is so iconic and was the first "character" in gaming, he automatically has to be in?
Well, I say they should put Superman in the next Avengers, since he was the first real "superhero". I don't get what you're saying.

I'll take your word for it on Miyamoto. But it's still doesn't make Pacman a given.

Agreed, it's not a given. But he's by far the most deserving.

My point is he's shaped Nintendo far more than Snake or Sonic have, and influenced a lot of Miyamoto's work overall. That's my point of why I think he's deserving.

 

[Arcanir]

And I'm saying subsequent third-parties are unlikely as is, and unless Pacman is on Sonic/Mega Man's level, he probably won't get in.

Can we stop talking about Pacman? It's a waste of time.

And how do you know they're unlikely? Sakurai has expressed disinterest in adding too many, but one more to the lot isn't going to kill the roster balance. Theoretically, he can easily get another third party if he feels said character adds enough to the casts, which could be Pac-Man or any other Third Party choice.

Regardless, it seems we're getting nowhere so I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Kenith]

I know I'm the only Zelda fan present, but I have to ask.
Which of these is a better choice?

Both one-offs that a lot of people like(d).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I wanted to bring up a different subject, If I could.

We all know that Smash Bros. 4 will also coincide with the 3DS. Now I was wondering if we would get a character to represent the handhelds that are available on the system. No, I don't mean someone from an already popular franchise, like Chrom ( please don't hurt me,) but I mean a character like Dillon, who has a succesful game in terms of e-shop standards. I'm not sure if this would happen, but it certainly would be a nice homage to the 3DS exclusives. (not to mention Dillon would work so well as a character.)

Eh. I suppose Dillon would be fine.

 

[Gunla]

I know I'm the only Zelda fan present, but I have to ask.
Which of these is a better choice?

Both one-offs that a lot of people like(d).

Little Debbie Ghirahim.
Despite loving Twilight Princess a bit more I feel that Ghirahim would be a better fit for Smash. More Villains and all.

 

[andimidna]

I don't really care for Pac Man, and I don't really like his 3d design. But I think it's going to happen, and I'm not against that. I think he's pretty deserving... and has both old and recent games going for him.

 

[Opossum]

I know I'm the only Zelda fan present, but I have to ask.
Which of these is a better choice?

Both one-offs that a lot of people like(d).

I say Ghirahim just for the potential of a dual-wielding sword user.

 

[Kenith]

Little Debbie Ghirahim.
Despite loving Twilight Princess a bit more I feel that Ghirahim would be a better fit for Smash. More Villains and all.

Well, lately, I've been leaning towards Midna because I have this perfect image of how she could work, and how she'd look,
and how she would play. I feel that uniqueness (and the fact that Link and Zelda use the TP artstyle) could carry her a long way.

 

[False Sense]

What is that similar to in their moveset? They don't have guns. It'd be less similar than Marth and Ike.

I also would like to see Krystal in Smash Bros... My bets on a new Starfox this E3... that'd take away the only reason to not call her likely. I don't think "4 reps is too much" is a convincing argument, I sure hope Sakurai doesn't add characters and not add characters simply because the franchise already has a good amount amount of reps. The actual character, fanbase, and moveset are much more important IMO. I do acknowledge those 3 aren't everything, but I think the focus is originality, and trying to make people happy.

I would actually disagree with this. I think the amount of representation a series receives is a rather important aspect. Sure, a series may have plenty of good characters that can be utilized in Smash. But does it really deserve all of them? Star Fox is still a pretty small series, and the only series to ever even reach four representatives are Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon, Nintendo's biggest series by far. If we start adding all these characters from smaller series, the roster starts to become a little unfocused and unbalanced. The actual character could be fine for Smash, as they could have plenty of popularity and potential as a fighter, but I think the issue of "is this character really necessary" plays a part as well (sort of like what happened with Ashley).