Character Discussion Thread

[Joe D.]

So, Diddy possibly revealed tomorrow? I'd expect at least something DK related.

I mean, we haven't even got a stage yet.

Most likely. Although Sakurai's tricked us plebty of times. However, it seems he's really been poking at scaling and sizes as of late. Do you think this is a hint at ridley?

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I am not a huge fan of Lucas but i don't want him to be cut completly

 

[Sehnsucht]

don't remind me ;_; I want some love for other franchises. The whole 3DS/Wii U thing is really worrying me. I was already disappointed when returning franchises didn't get two new stages each.

Actually, it seems that the central franchises are getting at least two stages per system.

For Zelda, we have Gerudo Valley and Spirit Tracks on the 3DS. On the other hand, we have Palutena's Temple for Wii U, and the Viridi stage for 3DS. This suggests that main franchises will get two stages per system, whereas secondary series will get only one per system (and Newcomers as well, since the Punch-Out Ring is on both systems).

So I'd expect two stages per system for the Big Ones (Mario, DK, Zelda, Metroid, etc.).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

So I'd expect two stages per system for the Big Ones (Mario, DK, Zelda, Metroid, etc.).

NOT AGAIN ;_;

then again that may give hope to some of the smaller franchises

seriously how metroid got two stages while kirby is still beyond me, but hey, kirby did get three characters

 

[AncientTobacco]

However, it seems he's really been poking at scaling and sizes as of late. Do you think this is a hint at ridley?

Maybe, maybe not. In any case Ridley probably isn't going to get revealed outside E3 and certainly not outside a Direct.

It's all about veterans until the next Direct rolls around in April.

 

[Bowserlick]

A Mii or Dixie Kong might be suitable for April. I think heavy hitters (like Ridley, Pac-Man, King K. Rool) should be saved for E3.

 

[Kenith]

A Mii or Dixie Kong might be suitable for April. I think heavy hitters (like Ridley, Pac-Man, King K. Rool) should be saved for E3.

Pacman is a heavy hitter? It would certainly make headlines...but there would be haters in those comment sections.

I wouldn't care, I just want my Zelda newcomer.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

My prediction roster again

Good roster. Just a few complaints

1. Diddy & Dixie you can bet isn't happening considering there was a newcomer reveal on DKCTF that had nothing to do with them. Seems like the perfect time to reveal them if it was actually happening. I would put Dixie in K. Rool's spot.
2. There exists no real reason for Sin & Punishment to get a character. There is nothing significant about this franchise.
3. I don't see what is significant about Krystal either. She's not very important to her franchise and we're likely not getting another Star Fox character considering the last 3 were semi-clones of each other. Having Krystal in there just doesn't fit at all especially since she's the only character who you propose does not stay true to her modern scheme. As long as a character shares significant similarities and is perfectly capable of performing the same abilities, there has never been a case where they haven't. So I don't understand why Krystal would be the first exception to break this trend when she's basically a Female version of Fox with blue fur and a pink outfit. The only thing close to an exception was Rosalina, but she was never really capable of being a Peach clone to begin with so I don't think that really counts. Krystal on the other hand is capable of doing literally everything Fox can do and exactly as he does it. If you're going to propose Krystal's staff you might as well propose Luigi's entire move set be based on the Poltergust. Which it isn't so....

So yeah, I would replace Krystal with Samurai Goroh seeing as he's a moderately popular Nintendo villain from an underepped classic franchise that is popular in Smash. Sakurai certainly cares about representation, he stated that's practically why Zero Suit Samus got in.

Saki I would replace with Takamaru. You're kind of required to have at least one retro considering Sakurai is trying to bring back more old characters this time. So we might even get 2.

 

[Kenith]

Good roster. Just a few complaints

1. Diddy & Dixie you can bet isn't happening considering there was a newcomer reveal on DKCTF that had nothing to do with them. Seems like the perfect time to reveal them if it was actually happening. I would put Dixie in K. Rool's spot.
2. There exists no real reason for Sin & Punishment to get a character. There is nothing significant about this franchise.
3. I don't see what is significant about Krystal either. She's not very important to her franchise and we're likely not getting another Star Fox character considering the last 3 were semi-clones of each other. Having Krystal in there just doesn't fit at all especially since she's the only character who you propose does not stay true to her modern scheme. As long as a character shares significant similarities and is perfectly capable of performing the same abilities, there has never been a case where they haven't. So I don't understand why Krystal would be the first exception to break this trend when she's basically a Female version of Fox with blue fur and a pink outfit. The only thing close to an exception was Rosalina, but she was never really capable of being a Peach clone to begin with so I don't think that really counts. Krystal on the other hand is capable of doing literally everything Fox can do and exactly as he does it. If you're going to propose Krystal's staff you might as well propose Luigi's entire move set be based on the Poltergust. Which it isn't so....

So yeah, I would replace Krystal with Samurai Goroh seeing as he's a moderately popular Nintendo villain from an underepped classic franchise that is popular in Smash. Sakurai certainly cares about representation, he stated that's practically why Zero Suit Samus got in.

Saki I would replace with Takamaru. You're kind of required to have at least one retro considering Sakurai is trying to bring back more old characters this time. So we might even get 2.

I agree about Dixie/Diddy and Saki, however I partially disagree about Krystal. While I would agree Star Fox is overstepping it's boundaries with four characters, I think Krystal could have enough unique qualities to warrant it. Also, you said she's insignificant to the series, but she's had a significant role in three main releases, which is essentially over half the series if I'm not mistaken.

For Goroh, I just don't know. On one hand, he certainly deserves it, but on the other, I can't see him happening. One thing is that Black Shadow is close to his popularity, but unlike Goroh, Black Shadow could easily take Ganondorf's moveset so Ganondorf can get a new moveset. I know that's cliche, but it's a popular idea for many reasons.

Takamaru is a given, but I want Mach Rider

 

[andimidna]

That's the spirit.

He's the most requested newcomer, the most requested character is Mewtwo, but K. Rool comes in second place there.




Firstly, Diddy was already in Brawl and shoving Dixie on him will alienate just about everyone that played him. Second, it would be an insult to the both of them because they are both deserving characters in their own rights, shoving Dixie on Diddy is like saying that she wasn't good enough to make it on her own. And it doesn't fit with the series, if you really want to try and go there, they only ever paired up in one game, and in Tropical Freeze, they can't pair up at all. So if you say she's likelier than K. Rool because of that game, then you shouldn't say she'll be shoved on Diddy, because she wasn't in that game.

I'm not being blind, the only thing I'm doing is not following the sheep. The odds aren't really in their favor, people just think they're going to get in because of that "leak." Miss Fit already fulfills the role of a character for casual gamers, and Villager already fills the role of a generic avatar character, hell, he looks just like a Mii and his "everything and the kitchen sink" moveset makes Miis redundant as well. Unless Sakurai is going to make an exception for just Miis, they won't show up because they aren't unique enough. The only way I could see Miis happening is if they were some special option away from the roster where you could make a single, customized moveset for your Mii and only use it for certain situations.

So, including Dixie as part of a team is insulting her, but not including her at all is perfectly fine?
Source to how that alienates Diddy mains in the slightest?
DKC2 is enough reason, it worked then, and was supposed to be in Brawl.
It's not unusual for Nintendo to revisit unfinished ideas. Like WWHD.
Or Sakurai with the Smash Ball.
She seems to be the 3rd most important DK character as of right now. And Cranky the 4th. If Nintendo doesn't even have the desire to return him in DK, I don't see him getting in for one reason only, being requested. Where did you see he was the most requested newcomer? I'm pretty doubtful of that, but if its a poll started before the character reveals for tropical freeze, I'd be less surprised. 2 characters together is far from offensive. You can't just defend her character and then keep her off your roster. The thing is, it could easily work without making Diddy too different. She wouldn't have to change him entirely. It's not like I'm saying Mewtwo should become all of Pikachus special attacks.
And I wouldn't dis it for being an old concept, even though it has returned, supporting characters don't team up anymore, but I wouldn't be surprised if it represented the present concept slightly differently, as there's no SSB canon. If old games can't affect this one, why are you adding King K Rool?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

So since we have a Fire Emblem thread, who's up for a general Mario RPG thread for representation?

 

[Kenith]

So since we have a Fire Emblem thread, who's up for a general Mario RPG thread for representation?

If general Mario RPG's includes Paper Mario I am all kinds of in.

Sorry, off topic.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

If general Mario RPG's includes Paper Mario I am all kinds of in.

Paper Mario + SMRPG + Mario & Luigi games only.

i'll do it when i get home and have time

 

[Fire Emblemier]

So, including Dixie as part of a team is insulting her, but not including her at all is perfectly fine?
Source to how that alienates Diddy mains in the slightest?
DKC2 is enough reason, it worked then, and was supposed to be in Brawl.
It's not unusual for Nintendo to revisit unfinished ideas. Like WWHD.
Or Sakurai with the Smash Ball.
She seems to be the 3rd most important DK character as of right now. And Cranky the 4th. If Nintendo doesn't even have the desire to return him in DK, I don't see h

I mained Diddy and I would be upset about Dixie being a duo with Diddy, as Diddy's moveset is already completely original and represents the 64 game very well with the Jet Pack and Peanut Popper. Dixie being shoved in would destroy the already great moveset and making them a Ice Climbers 2.0, which isn't needed. It also takes up more work than needed.

 

[Arcanir]

Pacman is a heavy hitter? It would certainly make headlines...but there would be haters in those comment sections.

I wouldn't care, I just want my Zelda newcomer.

To be fair, he is a third party character that has a lot nostalgic value to him. Announcing him at E3 surely won't make as many waves as Sonic, Snake or Megaman did but it would still get a lot of people interested I'd assume.

 

[Kenith]

To be fair, he is a third party character that has a lot nostalgic value to him. Announcing him at E3 surely won't make as many waves as Sonic, Snake or Megaman did but it would still get a lot of people interested I'd assume.

If it isn't as big of a deal as Sonic or Mega Man, I can't see it happening.
Sure, he may have a lot of nostalgic value to people, but does he have nostalgic value to Nintendo fans? Probably some, but not nearly as much as Mega Man.

Pacman's fame comes from the arcades, Mega Man was part of the generation of games that completely defined Nintendo's console.
There's a difference. And then everyone in the world wanted Sonic and SEGA and Nintendo are, like, best friends now.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I agree about Dixie/Diddy and Saki, however I partially disagree about Krystal. While I would agree Star Fox is overstepping it's boundaries with four characters, I think Krystal could have enough unique qualities to warrant it.

Going off the Command design of Krystal (which is what Sakurai is going off of) she actually has no unique qualities to warrant it. Even if she had a staff it wouldn't be more than one move seeing as it's not relevant enough to be more than that. And again, that's not enough.

 

[Baskerville]

So relevance applies to movesets now? Now I've heard everything.

 

[Arcanir]

If it isn't as big of a deal as Sonic or Mega Man, I can't see it happening.
Sure, he may have a lot of nostalgic value to people, but does he have nostalgic value to Nintendo fans? Probably some, but not nearly as much as Mega Man.

Pacman's fame comes from the arcades, Mega Man was part of the generation of games that completely defined Nintendo's console.
There's a difference. And then everyone in the world wanted Sonic and SEGA and Nintendo are, like, best friends now.

I think you're underplaying the value and attention Pac-Man would have. He's still a popular third party from back in the day that many do remember, and he's had ties with Nintendo such as appearing in a Mario Kart game. Sure he's not Sonic or Mega Man (but those two are on the top in terms of recognition anyway), but he's still a notable character and probably would garner more attention then a majority of other newcomers, particularly when it comes to the media which Nintendo would want to get attention from.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Pretty sure the reason Lucas got in alongside Ness is the same reason Kirby is considered among the "big four" and was the base of the SSE, bias on Sakurai's part. Of course, there's no way to prove this, but you'd think that as he worked for HAL at the time, and HAL was one of the developers of the Mother series, that the only reason Ness is part of the original twelve is because of that. And that of course, works towards Lucas' inclusion as well. Say, if Intelligence Systems had made Smash Bros. instead of HAL, someone from Fire Emblem would have been in the first game instead of a Mother character.

And didn't Sakurai say he was fond of rail shooters? Even if he didn't, it's pretty apparent that he is because of Uprising. He just probably loves Star Fox.

Edit: Looks like one of the mods got rid of it, was it you Scoliosis? Thanks for covering that one up.

Wait a minute, fond of rail shooters, thinks Saki is cool and has no problem fitting in Smash, is bias?SAKI CONFIRMED!

 

[Kenith]

I think you're underplaying the value and attention Pac-Man would have. He's still a popular third party from back in the day that many do remember, and he's had ties with Nintendo such as appearing in a Mario Kart game. Sure he's not Sonic or Mega Man (but those two are on the top in terms of recognition anyway), but he's still a notable character and probably would garner more attention then a majority of other newcomers, particularly when it comes to the media which Nintendo would want to get attention from.

Has had ties with =/= entire history tied with.

As I said before, if he's not going to make as many people happy as Sonic or Mega Man, he's probably not getting in, on account of Sakurai not wanting to add third-parties to his game celebrating Nintendo's history if they don't make millions of people happy and sell a billion copies.

Pacman would make some people happy, and others furious, and no one wants that.

 

[FinalStarmen]

If a third-party newcomer like Pac-Man were to be included in this installment, especially one of a legendary status, then E3 2014 would be the most (dare I say only) advisable course of action to undertake, considering what mainstream attention E3 actually brings in its commercial advertisement. Otherwise, I just cannot envision, with full confidence, Pac-Man would be revealed in any other matter.

Note I am saying if and not when.

Pacman would make some people happy, and others furious, and no one wants that.

To be fair, R.O.B. (and I believe Wii Fit Trainer) have done so likewise.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Pacman would make some people happy, and others furious, and no one wants that.

Just like with every other character that has a hatebase, Sakurai is unaffected.

As I said before, if he's not going to make as many people happy as Sonic or Mega Man, he's probably not getting in, on account of Sakurai not wanting to add third-parties to his game celebrating Nintendo's history if they don't make millions of people happy and sell a billion copies..

You know, Super Smash Bros. marketing Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, and Megaman in the game is a great way to make Smash Bros. sell millions.

 

[Kenith]

To be fair, R.O.B. (and I believe Wii Fit Trainer) have done so likewise.

You're taking what I said out of context.

I said that would be problem for Pacman because he isn't a Nintendo character in a game celebrating those.
ROB and WFT are Nintendo characters.

 

[andimidna]

I mained Diddy and I would be upset about Dixie being a duo with Diddy, as Diddy's moveset is already completely original and represents the 64 game very well with the Jet Pack and Peanut Popper. Dixie being shoved in would destroy the already great moveset and making them a Ice Climbers 2.0, which isn't needed. It also takes up more work than needed.

So jetpack and peanut popper would be gone by default? No. Not in my ideas for the team anyways.
I see peanut popper now working as Diddy points the Peanut popper in one direction, and Dixie points the BubbleGun in the opposite direction. Diddy not affected, only enhanced. This is how I'd think most of the moves would work
If Sakurai has something against large rosters, we may see more things added to original characters, rather than new slots. Seeing as how the newcomers so far are so unique, the veterans will look uninteresting IMO.
And I've met some Diddy mains that request this as their #1 want. So don't think want vs not want is split up between Diddy main vs doesn't play as Diddy.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So relevance applies to movesets now? Now I've heard everything.

You've heard wrong. Move sets are never entirely based on one irrelevant ability/weapon of a character. For good reason.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Fun fact: Miyamoto had always said that Pac-Man was his favorite game not made by Nintendo.

When Shigeru Miyamoto of all people gives you props; you're pretty much a big deal.

Again; he also paved the way for video game mascots to come into being. Before him there was just fricking Pong and Space Invaders.

You're taking what I said out of context.

I said that would be problem for Pacman because he isn't a Nintendo character in a game celebrating those.
ROB and WFT are Nintendo characters.

Even if that's the case; Snake. ****ing Snake. He has supporters and haters and even LESS connection to Nintendo.

 

[N3ON]

Funny how Sakurai can pull material for movesets out of thin air and base movesets around attacks the character isn't even capable of in their game but Krystal wielding a weapon she's actually known to be capable of using in the game she played her biggest role in isn't "relevant" enough to base a moveset around for Saturn.

 

[andimidna]

You've heard wrong. Move sets are never entirely based on one irrelevant ability/weapon of a character.

Don't all of Megaman's moves come from Megaman 2?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Can someone please tell me why all of the sudden you have to have connections with Nintendo to be a third party addition. Last time I checked you had to be a popular, requested, and unique character that appeared on a Nintendo console.

THAT'S IT!

 

[Joe D.]

Going off the Command design of Krystal (which is what Sakurai is going off of) she actually has no unique qualities to warrant it. Even if she had a staff it wouldn't be more than one move seeing as it's not relevant enough to be more than that. And again, that's not enough.

...and how do you know that Sakurai would use the Command look of Krystal? Is it because it's the last installment of her franchise? If that's your basis, then look at Link. Besides, Smash and characters games aren't exactly perfectly canon, so I see no reason for her tonot wield the staff. Not to mention there are plenty of options for moves with her staff, as shown in adventures. Although she wasn't using them, it's still HER weapon, so it makes sense that those specific moves could be implemented into her character. I think she'll make the cut, one reason is simply because she would break the trend of 2 other aggravating trend of similar move sets. (Although I main with one of those characters.)

 

[Arcanir]

Has had ties with =/= entire history tied with.

As I said before, if he's not going to make as many people happy as Sonic or Mega Man, he's probably not getting in, on account of Sakurai not wanting to add third-parties to his game celebrating Nintendo's history if they don't make millions of people happy and sell a billion copies.

I'm getting a bit of a bias from your post. He's still a big gaming icon from the past and that does still carry a good amount of weight to it, particularly to older fans who did enjoy those arcade games and respect him for the contributions he's given to gaming. Yes, he wouldn't make as many people as happy as those two did, but he would still make a lot of people happy regardless and get a lot of attention to himself.

Pacman would make some people happy, and others furious, and no one wants that.

That can be turned and twisted on almost any other newcomer. There's always going to be a group of people who do not like certain characters and would much rather them not be in.

 

[FinalStarmen]

You're taking what I said out of context.

I said that would be problem for Pacman because he isn't a Nintendo character in a game celebrating those.
ROB and WFT are Nintendo characters.

Except you are still dealing with initial reactions towards...

Even if that's the case; Snake. ****ing Snake. He has supporters and haters and even LESS connection to Nintendo.

Oh, there is that, as well. You would have explained it better than I.

 

[YoshiandToad]

All this Krystal wearing a different outfit to when she wields a staff is crazy.

Better remove FLUDD; I don't see no rolled up sleeves on Mario.

 

[andimidna]

If Krystal didn't have her staff, I doubt she'd be made very unique. If your saying she'd be a clone because she can't use an old, iconic weapon, well, you're crazy. That's the same thing as saying Bowser Jr couldn't use his paintbrush because it's from a game 2 generations old, and argue he'd be a clone of Bowser. Not that I'm arguing for a 6th Mario character, I just like the idea of a staff based moveset.
Doesn't Anna have a staff as well as her sword?

 

[Baskerville]

You've heard wrong. Move sets are never entirely based on one irrelevant ability/weapon of a character. For good reason.

Then how do you explain ****ing FLUDD?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Twilight Princess Zelda, and she he has Dins Fire, Farore's Wind, and Nayru's Love. And she used none of that in TP. (I think)
Just saying.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Don't all of Megaman's moves come from Megaman 2?

Most, and that's still eight different weapons right there.

 

[Gunla]

Twilight Princess Zelda, and she he has Dins Fire, Farore's Wind, and Nayru's Love. And she used none of that in TP. (I think)
Just saying.

Zelda has rarely used any of those techniques in game. Link has though, but it makes more sense on Zelda.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Then how do you explain ****ing FLUDD?

How do you explain missing the word entirely in that sentence?