Character Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

Tetra, cause lets have 3 characters that are Zelda on the roster; Tetra.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Maybe even 4 considering Pokemon trainer

I doubt Sakurai will care about that considering it's just a character in the background

However I'd love to see a second Pokemon Trainer with Gen 6 starters and a female trainer.

 

[Starcutter]

I'd honestly expect Pokemon trainer to do the same this time around, no matter which Pokemon he/she comes with.

And you know, Luigi don't look too bad in that Peach outfit from the NP comics. Ooh. Now I want Peach in the Luigi overalls. Dang that'd be fun. And the Koopa kids.

Luigi was also in peach's dress in superstar saga.

(Which is a great game hyped for virtual console)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Then we'd have 3 characters that do that.

Possibly 4.

Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Robin
Pokemon Trainer

They could all easily switch gender.

 

[BKupa666]

To many Zelda fans Skull Kid is one of the most significant characters, featuring in some capacity in all 3 games the Hero of Time was present in, being the centerpiece of a fan-favourite entry in the series as well as being arguably the most fleshed out antagonist within a single Zelda title, also a character with a very wide scope for an incredible and unique skillset
He's an assist though and I'm happy, why so? Because like Little Mac in Brawl I'd rather see the character crash the fight as an AT or hazard than as a fighter with a poorly developed skill-set simply because 'we had to include him instantly because the fans want him in'

Ashley I wouldn't be as sure of not being as knowledgeable of the Wario games but certainly know enough that she could fit in some opinions Sakurai's stance that unique skill-sets are key

However I can't disagree that Ridley makes perfect sense, especially with Melee's opening even highlighting how well he'd fit

Taken from the leaks thread to the thread where it's actually on topic...

I recognize he's important to the fans of the Zelda franchise, as are a great number of characters, but in the grand scheme of the series, he's a Zant or a Ghirahim. Although I hear he was sort of a sleeper pick for Melee era fans, he's certainly not a character one would expect to see in the game at all, if not as an AT. Contrast that with Ridley, where he's easily on the level of the currently playable characters (past the level of several), and has been among the top character requests for closing in on a decade. While others may disagree, I certainly don't think it's entitled to expect this one character in the game when even Sakurai has acknowledged it being possible to make him work. In contrast, seeing lesser characters at all instead of ignored or designated to trophy status is more along the lines of a pleasant surprise.

My initial point, however, was that, if Sakurai crams Ridley into a stage hazard role, it would take an extraordinary level of delusion from him to assume that fans will be happy to see Ridley not playable yet again, this time even more tantalizingly close but yet so far away from the roster.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Actually, A gen 6 Pokemon Trainer could definitely happen if we have a 45 slot roster. Would explain why Sakurai was unsure about adding Mewtwo.

 

[JamesDNaux]

You mean that movie with Billy Bob Thornton?

Oh yep, found it. Ironically, the movie is called "The Astronaut Farmer" how did I forget a name like that?

And who would be revealed next? Most likely Yoshi and Snake.

I'm just hoping Snake comes sooner rather than later.

They could all easily switch gender.

Well, it would be a neat touch if Pikachu had one alt with the heart shaped tail, Sakurai might think to do that now that he's got gender swaps on the mind.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I've noticed that everytime The Legend of Zelda is brought up, nobody bothers to try and justify it. It's as if people are just labeling characters from The Legend of Zelda as if it's some sort of arbitrary criteria or something.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Would explain why Sakurai was unsure about adding Mewtwo.

He was sure.

He was just dodging the question.

"We're thinking about it," is most certainly a lawyer's dodge, especially since the roster was already decided at that point.

 

[Espio264]

I doubt Sakurai will care about that considering it's just a character in the background

But if he did, it would just show that he loves us!

However I'd love to see a second Pokemon Trainer with Gen 6 starters and a female trainer.

See and that's where you lose me. Lady trainer. fine. Gen 6. Not... as fine. They need time to become All Stars. I couldn't name any of them if I really tried. But Blaziken was after my time, and I'm fully aware of what it is. Iconic Pokemon serve better than recent Pokemon. Lucario stands out as the icon of that whole generation before he was even included in Brawl. I'm fine with the newest Fire Emblemer, but I'd feel bad knocking around a tiny water panda/weasel with Mewtwo and Ganondorf and Ike. Especially if it's at the cost of Ivysaur and Squirtle.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Unsure about Adding Mewtwo...are those words even possible to use together in a sentence at this point? It's like saying he hesitated to include Mario, Mewtwo's chances are simply just that high.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think I'm the only Smash fan with a remotely clear understanding of the concept of how clone/semi-clones are decided...

 

[Starcutter]

I think I'm the only Smash fan with a remotely clear understanding of the concept of how clone/semi-clones are decided...

What, time constraints?

 

[Sehnsucht]

I think I'm the only Smash fan with a remotely clear understanding of the concept of how clone/semi-clones are decided...

I'd be interested in knowing more.

Especially since I'm not a clone myself.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Unsure about Adding Mewtwo...are those words even possible to use together in a sentence at this point? It's like saying he hesitated to include Mario, Mewtwo's chances are simply just that high.

The only situation where I can see that happening is if Sakurai and co. are really that paranoid of creating the same situation from Melee, where Mewtwo was lackluster and people hated him for it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'd be interested in knowing more.

Especially since I'm not a clone myself.

I don't want to get too into it because people will actually try to argue it somehow. Just wanted to throw that out there.

But, everyone seems to be under the impression that if a character has something different that they will automatically be their own unique character. Despite that this has not been the case for 9 characters.

The truth is that you don't automatically become a clone if you share major similarities. You don't automatically become a clone if you're originally capable of performing the same moves as another character.

But, characters who are both of those things have always shared moves with the other character. There has yet to be a character who hasn't.

The only exception is Rosalina who even though did not have the second criteria which is originally being capable of performing the same moves as Peach, there are a few minor moves she could have shared, but didn't. So this is a minor exception

I'm sure there can be exceptions, but it would have to be something plausible. Lucina, Samurai Goroh, or Krystal being the first to break this trend does not seem plausible though.

The only character I think might be an exception is Mach Rider. But, even that's debatable. He's very similar to Captain Falcon.

 

[SmashChu]

Well, when it comes to Ridley haters, it's kind of hard to say what they think of him. Most of them usually brush off any defense of Ridley with Lols or LMAOs, but there are a few that give a bit more reasonable answers. A bit. I do see some say that they actually love Ridley but think that having him playable would be an injustice to the character, mostly because he would be shrunk down. They would rather have the character as a boss to preserve his character. But then there are others that hate him as a character because he's "too big."

Ironically, Shokio does actually acknowledge Ridley as the best Metroid representative.

Best rule for Smash: the irrational people tend to be wrong. Ridley fans use to be VERY irrational. Now, they are calm and well mannered. Ashley fans were also bad. The same is true of the Ridley haters. You see a certain kind of loathing in their talk. The reason I suspect this is the case is because they don't have a leg to stand on, so they become like zealots to defend their point.

Ridley stands a good chance. Forget the crazies.

 

[Hotfeet444]

The only situation where I can see that happening is if Sakurai and co. are really that paranoid of creating the same situation from Melee, where Mewtwo was lackluster and people hated him for it.

Actually, wasn't Mewtwo still one of the games most used characters? I mean, it's Mewtwo, alot of people are going to jump on the fact that they can play as a legendary pokemon, as lackluster as it may have been. It was still quite a bit jarring to stop and realize you were playing as a Mewtwo, and to be honest, no other character to me has had that kind of effect on me when it comes to Smash. Maybe Sonic to a lesser extent, but nothing really compared to knowing you were playing as the strongest pokemon of all time.

Besides, alot of advances have been made to the psychic type since Melee's release, and considering how limited Mewtwo's overall play-style was in earlier pokemon days, it is a little understanding. However, now that we've had so many advancements with the Psychic type and pokemon in general, Mewtwo can be made into a pokemon that's overall even more love than before. Also, Project M Mewtwo uses the exact same moveset with only a few tweaks, and from what I've seen, it's been quite accepted overall.

I think I'm the only Smash fan with a remotely clear understanding of the concept of how clone/semi-clones are decided...

Just sounds like you just playing to your ego...again.

 

[False Sense]

Unsure about Adding Mewtwo...are those words even possible to use together in a sentence at this point? It's like saying he hesitated to include Mario, Mewtwo's chances are simply just that high.

You seem awfully confident in Mewtwo's chances. I hate to be the one to mention that there really is no such thing as a shoo-in character, but... Well, I'm pessimistic like that.

So, would you care to elaborate a little on why you believe Mewtwo is such a guarantee? If only to put my pessimism at ease.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I don't want to get too into it because people will actually try to argue it somehow. Just wanted to throw that out there.

But, everyone seems to be under the impression that if a character has something different that they will automatically be their own unique character. Despite that this has not been the case for 9 characters.

The truth is that you don't automatically become a clone if you share major similarities. You don't automatically become a clone if you're originally capable of performing the same moves as another character.

But, characters who are both of those things have always shared moves with the other character. There has yet to be a character who hasn't.

The only exception is Rosalina who even though did not have the second criteria which is originally being capable of performing the same moves as Peach, there are a few minor moves she could have shared, but didn't. So this is a minor exception

I'm sure there can be exceptions, but it would have to be something plausible. Lucina, Samurai Goroh, or Krystal being the first to break this trend does not seem plausible though.

The only character I think might be an exception is Mach Rider. But, even that's debatable. He's very similar to Captain Falcon.

To reword this for my own comprehension, you're saying that a clone constitutes the following:

A) A character who shares major similarities with an existing character (from the same franchise or not);

B) A character who, in canon, was once capable of performing the same or similar moves as an existing character (from the same franchise, generally).

A semi-clone represents a degree of separation in terms of the above, and a luigified character is a (semi)clone who has been made more distinct over a subsequent Smash iteration.

Your position, then, is that just because a character has one or two certain unique gimmicks compared to others in their franchise (e.g. Krystal, Chrom, etc.), it does not mean that they are anything other than (semi)clones.

Rosalina represents an exception, because relative to Peach, she does not satisfy B), but also has ended up not satisfying A).

Is this the right of it?

 

[Hotfeet444]

You seem awfully confident in Mewtwo's chances. I hate to be the one to mention that there really is no such thing as a shoo-in character, but... Well, I'm pessimistic like that.

So, would you care to elaborate a little on why you believe Mewtwo is such a guarantee? If only to put my pessimism at ease.

Alright, it's overall pretty simple...

#1: Mewtwo is one of the most popular, recognizable, and overall most loved pokemon of all time
#2: The recent years of having another movie, a part in Origins, and a main representative of the Mega Evolutions for X and Y has turned Mewtwo into a poster boy for the Sixth Generation, adding onto his already outstanding position in the Pokemon universe.
#3: Was never intended to leave, and Sakurai loves to visit old ideas (Is actually also one of the few characters to have been in all games in the franchise at one point)
#4: Represents a part of the Pokemon universe nobody else can, the legendary pokemon.
#5: Is already a unique fighter and having an even better moveset is indeed very possible.
#6: Most importantly...IT'S MEWTWO! The fact he's almost on Pikachu's level of iconic surely stands out as the only other pokemon in the game to even get close to said iconic level is Charizard.

So yeah, there's no reason Mewtwo shouldn't make it...the backlash would CRUSH this game's reputation by quite a bit...imagine the Brawl backlash x50 million at this point.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Actually, wasn't Mewtwo still one of the games most used characters? I mean, it's Mewtwo, alot of people are going to jump on the fact that they can play as a legendary pokemon, as lackluster as it may have been. It was still quite a bit jarring to stop and realize you were playing as a Mewtwo, and to be honest, no other character to me has had that kind of effect on me when it comes to Smash. Maybe Sonic to a lesser extent, but nothing really compared to knowing you were playing as the strongest pokemon of all time.

Besides, alot of advances have been made to the psychic type since Melee's release, and considering how limited Mewtwo's overall play-style was in earlier pokemon days, it is a little understanding. However, now that we've had so many advancements with the Psychic type and pokemon in general, Mewtwo can be made into a pokemon that's overall even more love than before. Also, Project M Mewtwo uses the exact same moveset with only a few tweaks, and from what I've seen, it's been quite accepted overall.



Just sounds like you just playing to your ego...again.

NVM!...

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Lucas the only clone character to not be added last minute?

 

[Minato Arisato]

Whoa, WHOA, WHOA...Robin having Grima as his/her Final Smash? That is a HUGE spoiler for those that haven't played FE: Awakening.

 

[False Sense]

Alright, it's overall pretty simple...

#1: Mewtwo is one of the most popular, recognizable, and overall most loved pokemon of all time
#2: The recent years of having another movie, a part in Origins, and a main representative of the Mega Evolutions for X and Y has turned Mewtwo into a poster boy for the Sixth Generation, adding onto his already outstanding position in the Pokemon universe.
#3: Was never intended to leave, and Sakurai loves to visit old ideas (Is actually also one of the few characters to have been in all games in the franchise at one point)
#4: Represents a part of the Pokemon universe nobody else can, the legendary pokemon.
#5: Is already a unique fighter and having an even better moveset is indeed very possible.
#6: Most importantly...IT'S MEWTWO! The fact he's almost on Pikachu's level of iconic surely stands out as the only other pokemon in the game to even get close to said iconic level is Charizard.

So yeah, there's no reason Mewtwo shouldn't make it...the backlash would CRUSH this game's reputation by quite a bit...imagine the Brawl backlash x50 million at this point.

Well, I guess all that boosts my confidence a little. As a huge Pokemon fan myself, I can't see why they wouldn't add Mewtwo back in at this point. However, I still have that small fear that they'll do something really weird... like add in Sylveon over Mewtwo.

Er, no offense to all the Sylveon supporters out there....

 

[FlareHabanero]

Actually, wasn't Mewtwo still one of the games most used characters?

Mewtwo was widely hated, until he was scrapped for Brawl and people started to feel pitty for him.

Same for Roy.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

To reword this for my own comprehension, you're saying that a clone constitutes the following:

A) A character who shares major similarities with an existing character (from the same franchise or not);

B) A character who, in canon, was once capable of performing the same or similar moves as an existing character (from the same franchise, generally).

A semi-clone represents a degree of separation in terms of the above, and a luigified character is a (semi)clone who has been made more distinct over a subsequent Smash iteration.

Your position, then, is that just because a character has one or two certain unique gimmicks compared to others in their franchise (e.g. Krystal, Chrom, etc.), it does not mean that they are anything other than (semi)clones.

Rosalina represents an exception, because relative to Peach, she does not satisfy B), but also has ended up not satisfying A).

Is this the right of it?

Finally. Somebody understands.

EDIT: Although while Rosalina did not satisfy B, she did satisfy A. But, unfortunately both A & B must be satisfied in order for a character to become a semi-clone (with the exception of Ganondorf who became a semi-clone regardless of not living up to A. But, it's obvious why he became a clone.)

 

[Starcutter]

Whoa, WHOA, WHOA...Robin having Grima as his/her Final Smash? That is a HUGE spoiler for those that haven't played FE: Awakening.

Anyway let's talk about something new.

 

[SmasherMaster]

The number one rule in Smash speculation is that there are no rules.

On the semi clone thing, Sakurai could give Dark Paper Toon Baby Metal Mario a unique moveset or make Darkrai a clone of Peach if he want to.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Lucas the only clone character to not be added last minute?

Lucas isn't a clone, he can barely even be called a semi clone. Every one of his normal attacks bar one is completely different from Ness'.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Mewtwo was widely hated, until he was scrapped for Brawl and people started to feel pitty for him.

Same for Roy.

Really? Odd, never knew that. Well, the hate couldn't be that wide when the backlash against his non-inclusion was almost legendary in size. Pitty or not, the backlash was indeed quite understandable.

Well, I guess all that boosts my confidence a little. As a huge Pokemon fan myself, I can't see why they wouldn't add Mewtwo back in at this point. However, I still have that small fear that they'll do something really weird... like add in Sylveon over Mewtwo.

Er, no offense to all the Sylveon supporters out there....

If any pokemon in the roster truly had a chance of getting cut, it's Lucario, and he's already announced, and let's just say his chances were pretty miniscule compared to Mewtwo's chances of returning, and Lucario was a character who was very likely I might add. Mewtwo is wanted colossally by both sides of the world, I highly doubt Sakurai would go against such a request when both sides of the world feel as strongly as they do towards his return.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Mewtwo was widely hated, until he was scrapped for Brawl and people started to feel pitty for him.

Same for Roy.

Melee is my least played Smash, but I totally dug Mewtwo, and used him profusely. His playstyle agreed with me greatly.

This was why the absence of Mewtwo in Brawl was woeful. My teleport-all-over-the-place floaty badass was gone.

Mewtwo for SSB4!

Finally. Somebody understands.

EDIT: Although Rosalina did satisfy A

Cool beans.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Lucas isn't a clone, he can barely even be called a semi clone. Every one of his normal attacks bar one is completely different from Ness'.

I knew someone would do this. I know he is very different, when I said clone characters I was referring to characters whose movesets are based on another character's, which Lucas's is obviously based on Ness's. Reffering to them as clone characters makes it easier, and by clone I meant all types of clones, including semi clones.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Really? Odd, never knew that. Well, the hate couldn't be that wide when the backlash against his non-inclusion was almost legendary in size. Pitty or not, the backlash was indeed quite understandable.

The reason why people were upset over his exclusion is because he didn't really have an excuse.

He wasn't one of the six last minute clones included, so he wasn't exactly extendable. I mean you can easily remove Young Link and Dr. Mario with no repercussions, but with something like Mewtwo that's a lot more hard to swallow.

 

[Gune]

Mewtwo was widely hated, until he was scrapped for Brawl and people started to feel pitty for him.

Same for Roy.

Are you f*cking serious? Pity is all it was?

 

[pikachugamer21]

I think I'm the only Smash fan with a remotely clear understanding of the concept of how clone/semi-clones are decided...

noooo i understand

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Whoa, WHOA, WHOA...Robin having Grima as his/her Final Smash? That is a HUGE spoiler for those that haven't played FE: Awakening.

The game has been out for over a year.

 

[MagnesD3]

My prediction roster again

 

[FlareHabanero]

Are you f*cking serious? Pity is all it was?

Never touched Mewtwo in Melee, so I cannot say how painful it was.

Marth and Captian Falcon for me.

 

[Hotfeet444]

The reason why people were upset over his exclusion is because he didn't really have an excuse.

He wasn't one of the six last minute clones included, so he wasn't exactly extendable. I mean you can easily remove Young Link and Dr. Mario with no repercussions, but with something like Mewtwo that's a lot more hard to swallow.

Not having an excuse or not, Mewtwo's heavy amounts of popularity had to have had something to do with how it got to be such a hugely spoken issue. I mean I highly doubt people saying that Mewtwo's non-inclusion being a major issue with Brawl is just thanks to pity. I mean, we're talking about a character who's one of the most iconic characters in the second largest videogame franchise in the world, Pity may have played a part at the beginning, but it's the fans loving this character that carried it as far as it has come, especially to the point where he's the most wanted character the world over this time around.

As a huge Mewtwo fan in general, the character being cut wasn't just a sting because he had no reason to leave, but it came from the fact that Mewtwo's level of iconic is just too high to be brushed off, and from what we've seen of his character model, an actual texture skin, details on a final smash and a Victory theme, it was anything but being brushed off. In fact, it was never intended to happen in the first place. Which brings me to the fact that I find it incredibly ironic my Brawl Main was the true reason Mewtwo was never completed.