Character Discussion Thread

[JamesDNaux]

It's obvious that Sakurai is going for far more unique characters this time, but he has always had unique choices before, many people seem to forget certain things.

To further put down the idea of any clones being added this time:
[collapse=]Initially during Melee's development, all the added characters were completely unique:
Bowser
Peach
Ice Climbers
Zelda/Sheik
Mewtwo
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
None of these characters were clones of anyone, in addition to the twelve characters from SSB64, this made 20 characters in total. Sakurai however, felt that this wasn't enough of an upgrade from the previous game, so he added the clone characters for the sake of padding the roster:
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Young Link
Falco
Pichu
Roy
None of these characters would have gotten in during Melee's development if it weren't for the fact that they were easily made into clones. Ganondorf is only a clone because of this reason, and he is only in because of being a clone. If he were added under different circumstances, he would have been completely unique.

No characters added in Brawl were clones, other than Toon Link as he was a replacement for Young Link. If you think Wolf and Lucas are clones, then you've never used any attack other than the specials, because 99% of the rest of their movesets is completely different.
Diddy Kong
Wario
Pit
R.O.B.
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Olimar
Wolf
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Ike
Lucas
Snake
As we all know, late into development, Sakurai decided to add Sonic due to his sheer massive demand, this caused the game to be delayed and veterans such as Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario to be cut. As Wolf seems to have been added after Sonic was, it's very likely that he was planned to be more unique from Fox than he ended up, but was kept as a "clone" due to time constraints solely so they could keep him in the game.

Now as we know, with the roster already being relatively large in Brawl, there is absolutely no reason for Sakurai to add clones to pad the roster, so the circumstances of the Melee clones is not possible this time. As we also know, both Sonic and Mega Man are already in the game, thus, unless by some insanely unlikely chance that the game might get delayed like it was with Brawl, there will not be another situation like that either. As such, it's just asinine to think that we'll get clones or semi clones this time because we got them in Melee and Brawl, where we got them under two extremely different circumstances, one being extra development time and a need for more characters, and the other being a lack of development time for more characters. This game has been in development for longer than Brawl, with a larger team, and without the SSE taking up over half of their time, does anyone honestly think we're going to get clones for the sake of clones? [/collapse]

 

[Starcutter]

If Tetra doesn't need to be a Sheik clone, neither would Impa.

This is kinda flawed.... For obvious reasons.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He's right though.

If people keep saying Tetra would be completely unique then they should argue the same for Impa.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why likely? He doesn't have canon abilities making him unique, so I wouldn't suspect him. Impa has abilities of her own, and a lot of other stuff to create a moveset out. I don't see why you compare them. Impa has more source material than Tetra even.

Also, Giygas could be a Mewtwo clone. Ninten a Ness clone.

If you wanna play it that way.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This is kinda flawed.... For obvious reasons.

No, I understand it entirely. If Meta Knight is not a clone of Kirby, then Louie doesn't have to be a clone of Olimar.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I like Tetra... paired with T. Zelda or not (and vice-versa). I'm pretty sure Hotfeet posted a moveset for Toon Zelda based on her bow that I really liked. And I also love his new Tetra moveset. #***kissing

 

[Diddy Kong]

No, I understand it entirely. If Meta Knight is not a clone of Kirby, then Louie doesn't have to be a clone of Olimar.

Whenever you try to make sence I keep remembering you think Mario and Dr.Mario are completely unique characters. In which case, I can't ever take you seriously.

Toon Zelda is pretty much out since we saw Phantom. Don't see why people would be in denial about this.

Nice how many birds the Phantom killed in one strike.

 

[Deleted member]

He's right though.

If people keep saying Tetra would be completely unique then they should argue the same for Impa.

While I'm on the side that neither have to be cloned, this doesn't make sense.
It makes a lot more logical sense for Impa to clone Sheik than Tetra.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oi...

Any character can be made unique...

We really need to stop using that as a point....

 

[Starcutter]

He's right though.

If people keep saying Tetra would be completely unique then they should argue the same for Impa.

Here's the flawed part of the argument:

Pirate =/= Ninja

Honestly Tetra would probably be a TL clone before a sheik clone.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I still support Vaati instead of Tetra or Impa, but I'm sure we all knew that by now.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Oi...

Any character can be made unique...

We really need to stop using that as a point....

I think there's a difference in "unique" and "adding something completely new to the table".

 

[Hotfeet444]

I like Tetra... paired with T. Zelda or not (and vice-versa). I'm pretty sure Hotfeet posted a moveset for Toon Zelda based on her bow that I really liked. And I also love his new Tetra moveset. #***kissing

I did, but that was really old. Basically she was designed conceptually off of Hawkeye from UMVC3, using Bow and arrow attacks for almost everything while adding in Spirit Tracks Musical magic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Without Sheik, there's room for both Impa and Tetra.

 

[Espio264]

Here's the flawed part of the argument:

Pirate =/= Ninja

Right. Cause, Ninja kills Pirate, Pirate kills Cowboy and Cowboy kills Ninja. Or was it the Cowboy kills the Rockstar?

We need a cowboy now. I guess Sheriff has just gotta happen now. And where would Takamaru fit into all of that?

Falco's kind of a cowboy. Space cowboy. Cowboy bebop. Bebop and Rocksteady. Arkham Asylum. Batman. Batman and Robin. Robin wins. Sorry Chrom.

I'm actually interested in Robin now, to get back on topic. Does anybody wanna tell me wonderful things about him/her?

 

[TumblrFamous]

Without Sheik, there's room for both Impa and Tetra.

Your anti-Sheik propaganda... it pains me...

Though your pro-Impa propaganda is delightful.

 

[Starcutter]

Without Sheik, there's room for both Impa and Tetra.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!


don't even know where that quote comes from

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why likely? He doesn't have canon abilities making him unique

Sure he does. He has the Titan Dweevil, exlplosives, and can recover health with Pik Pik Carrots. So given Pikmin's major success combined with your strange "canon abilities cancel out similarities" logic. Louie should be on everyone's roster right?

mpa has abilities of her own, and a lot of other stuff to create a moveset out. I don't see why you compare them. Impa has more source material than Tetra even.

I'm wondering why YOU are comparing them Tetra and Sheik share literally NOTHING besides that they are the same blood.

And to review source material:

Tetra: Cannon, Pirate Sword, Grappling Hook, could make a parachute out of a hanker cheif.

Impa: Everything Sheik does, Deku Nuts (which is an item), and sword which is not unique.

Also, Giygas could be a Mewtwo clone. Ninten a Ness clone.

You're not understanding. You're saying that because a character with no similarities to Sheik isn't a clone, that somebody with almost every possible similarity to Sheik wouldn't.

That's why am asking if you're logic supports the claim that because Giygas is not a clone of Ness who shares no similarities, that Ninten who shares every similarity to him wouldn't have to either

He's right though.

If people keep saying Tetra would be completely unique then they should argue the same for Impa.

How does this make ANY sense? Tetra resembles Sheik in NO way whatsoever. Where as Impa resembles Sheik and her abilities in practically EVERY way whatsoever.

Sakurai doesn't make a character a clone because they are the same person. They have to be actually capable of performing those moves you know.

That's why Zero Suit Samus is not a clone and Toon Link is.

Without Sheik, there's room for both Impa and Tetra.

How unfortunate for Impa.

 

[TumblrFamous]

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!


don't even know where that quote comes from

I was very close to posting that, but posted something else instead. Don't remember where the quote comes from, but I know Robot Chicken parodied it with Lindsay Lohan.

Anyway, to answer the Robin question, many people believe she (or he) is a very popular choice for a FE character as she has access to a stance change mechanic in Awakening, allowing her to play as two classes or types of characters. Plus, it just adds a bit of diversity to the FE cast in Brawl.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Your anti-Sheik propaganda... it pains me...

Though your pro-Impa propaganda is delightful.

He really makes a ton of sense doesn't he? It's just like all of this:

Without Sheik, there's room for both Impa and Tetra.

Yes, let's get rid of Zamus so we can have Ridley.

Or how about we get rid of Falco so we can have Krystal?

Why not get rid of Lucario so we can ha-oh wait...

Better yet, let's get rid of Diddy so we can have K. Rool.

I'm fine with the Impa love, but the Sheik hate is intolerable.

 

[Espio264]

I was very close to posting that, but posted something else instead. Don't remember where the quote comes from, but I know Robot Chicken parodied it with Lindsay Lohan.

Anyway, to answer the Robin question, many people believe she (or he) is a very popular choice for a FE character as she has access to a stance change mechanic in Awakening, allowing her to play as two classes or types of characters. Plus, it just adds a bit of diversity to the FE cast in Brawl.

Highlander.

And, stance change. sweet. Let's get ourselves a Robin then. Just as long as he/she plays nice alongside Ike.

Here's a tangent. If we got Robin and you had the choice of male or female, wouldn't most of us choose the female? I mean really? And I have no desire to try out Man Fit Trainer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Who would donate me money for a Wii U if Impa actually gets in?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Right. Cause, Ninja kills Pirate, Pirate kills Cowboy and Cowboy kills Ninja. Or was it the Cowboy kills the Rockstar?

We need a cowboy now. I guess Sheriff has just gotta happen now. And where would Takamaru fit into all of that?

Falco's kind of a cowboy. Space cowboy. Cowboy bebop. Bebop and Rocksteady. Arkham Asylum. Batman. Batman and Robin. Robin wins. Sorry Chrom.

I'm actually interested in Robin now, to get back on topic. Does anybody wanna tell me wonderful things about him/her?

Everyone says Cowboy Bebop when I personally found Outlaw Star the better Space Western.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Whenever you try to make sence I keep remembering you think Mario and Dr.Mario are completely unique characters. In which case, I can't ever take you seriously.

Except you are entirely aware that is not true and that I actually don't think that. Thus this proves you are actually in denial and support lying and purposely misreading quotes to prove points you know are wrong.

Toon Zelda is pretty much out since we saw Phantom. Don't see why people would be in denial about this.

Please explain why...

Nice how many birds the Phantom killed in one strike.

Still doesn't cancel out Tetra.

 

[Espio264]

Everyone says Cowboy Bebop when I personally found Outlaw Star the better Space Western.

I love me some Cowboy Bebop, but I really have no preference between the two. Considering I dropped Goo Goo Dolls, Ninja Turtles and Batman references that nobody else pointed out, you win the prize for acknowledging something.

I really kinda want Robin now. I'm doing crazy research on him/her/thems. Expect to see a new addition to my next roster.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Everyone says Cowboy Bebop when I personally found Outlaw Star the better Space Western.

I prefer that one movie where the farmer builds his own rocket. Err, I can't remember what it was called...

Anyway, how about a new topic? If Diddy is revealed this week, who might be revealed next? Ike? Ice Climbers? Meta Knight? Sheik?

 

[TumblrFamous]

Who would donate me money for a Wii U if Impa actually gets in?

Sorry, I'm broke.

Though if Impa does get in, I will try my hardest to get a job and give you all of my money from that job until you get enough to buy a Wii U.

 

[Mario.Man]

Here's a tangent. If we got Robin and you had the choice of male or female, wouldn't most of us choose the female? I mean really?.

I'm a bit weird but my preference would be Robin with a hood over him/her so as to make him/her more mysterious.

But if I had to choose between the two I'd go male just because that was my first experience with the character.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Let's get back on topic:

What is everyone's opinion on Tetra's chances and if she should or would be paired with Toon Zelda.

Having a Toonverse character to bolster the Zelda gang would be a sensible move, since we only have one Toonverse character at the moment (whereas the Mainverse has four).

The current Zelda roster covers all of the bases, I find. We have the Triforce Trio (Link-Zelda-Ganondorf), with Sheik as a bonus and Ganon represented via Dorf's Final Smash (though it remains to be seen if this will be modified in Smash 4). Then we have Toon Link, the poster boy of the Toonverse line of Zelda games.

With this in mind, does the Zelda franchise need another character? And does a Zelda Newcomer have more urgent priority, relative to other non-Zelda Newcomers? I'm undecided, but perhaps you have more to say on this topic.

In any case, Tetra seems a viable candidate. She is at the forefront of the supporting cast in the Toonverse, and is a recurring figure; and by adding her, you help bolster the Toonverse side of the Zelda roster. I'd imagine that she would be a pretty nimble character, using her pirate-y tools and her feisty strength to capitulate whatever foe stands in her way.

Pairing her with Toon Zelda seems iffy, though. What would Toon Zelda offer that Main Zelda does not already? I suppose you could make that same argument for Link and Toon Link. But then, this equivocation could easily justify Ganondorf and Toon Ganondorf. If Toon Zelda is to be a carbon copy of Zelda, distinguished only by visual aesthetic and minor tweaks in the physics, then I'd rather not tack her on to Tetra.***

Tetra, Vaati, and Tingle appear to be at the forefront for Zelda Newcomers - that is, supposing we even get one. I'm rooting for Ghirahim as the Dark Horse candidate, but his inclusion is not vital. Right now, the most pressing Zelda news I'm waiting for is an official confirmation on the good ol' Gerudo King.

***I can see why some prefer Toon Link over Link, since their moveset is mostly identical, but their properties are different (speed, weight, strength, etc.). Likewise, Toon Zelda could offer a smaller, faster, lighter Zelda. But still, the clone-ness turns me off from the notion.

 

[Espio264]

I prefer that one movie where the farmer builds his own rocket. Err, I can't remember what it was called...

Anyway, how about a new topic? If Diddy is revealed this week, who might be revealed next? Ike? Ice Climbers? Meta Knight? Sheik?

Falco in a Snake costume. And I don't mean Metal Gear. He'll be a Boa Constrictor.

Honestly, Yoshi is really overdue.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm a bit weird but my preference would be Robin with a hood over him/her so as to make him/her more mysterious.

But if I had to choose between the two I'd go male just because that was my first experience with the character.

I like your first post... good job.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I love me some Cowboy Bebop, but I really have no preference between the two. Considering I dropped Goo Goo Dolls, Ninja Turtles and Batman references that nobody else pointed out, you win the prize for acknowledging something.

I really kinda want Robin now. I'm doing crazy research on him/her/thems. Expect to see a new addition to my next roster.

Well people tend to build preferences between the two since they're both made by the same Studio, and I will honestly go on a tangent to say that Outlaw Star has the more likeable main cast of characters. I mean c'mon...who on Cowboy Bebop is as awesome as Aisha?

I already designed a moveset for Robin, but I have a question...would be odd if he/she had a Final Smash featuring Grima?

And who would be revealed next? Most likely Yoshi and Snake.

I prefer that one movie where the farmer builds his own rocket. Err, I can't remember what it was called...

You mean that movie with Billy Bob Thornton?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sorry, I'm broke.

Though if Impa does get in, I will try my hardest to get a job and give you all of my money from that job until you get enough to buy a Wii U.

Well, that's nice of you.

 

[Espio264]

I'm a bit weird but my preference would be Robin with a hood over him/her so as to make him/her more mysterious.

But if I had to choose between the two I'd go male just because that was my first experience with the character.

Hooded guy, hooded girl. Either way, you're absolutely right. Mysterious is better. Good point.

I like your first post... good job.

Indeed.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I would deem Tetra herself deserving enough to be on the roster even if we end up with only 48 characters

 

[Mario.Man]

I like your first post... good job.

Thanks. Robin would be a good addition to the game and a situation like WFT, being able to choose between Male/Female, is probably the best option for him/her if he/she were to be in the game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Thanks. Robin's a good addition to the game and a situation like WFT, being able to choose between Male/Female is probably the best option for him/her if he/she were to be in the game.

Then we'd have 3 characters that do that.

 

[Mario.Man]

Then we'd have 3 characters that do that.

Yep, not much wrong with that IMO.

 

[Starcutter]

Then we'd have 3 characters that do that.

Maybe even 4 considering Pokemon trainer

 

[Espio264]

Then we'd have 3 characters that do that.

I'd honestly expect Pokemon trainer to do the same this time around, no matter which Pokemon he/she comes with. - Sheik'd

And you know, Luigi don't look too bad in that Peach outfit from the NP comics. Ooh. Now I want Peach in the Luigi overalls. Dang that'd be fun. And the Koopa kids.