Character Discussion Thread

[NickerBocker]

The only way Doc Mario can be better than his melee appearance and be a clone is if FLUDD becomes a Pepto Bismol gun.

I will accept nothing less

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Indeed, our opinions have no impact as it seems that Dr. Mario has been soft-confirmed over Mewtwo.

But seriously, there is still a chance for Mewtwo to return; in fact, I am positive that he will return. The main point here is this...

I understand completely. I just hope that Mewtwo gets in along with Dr. Mario, because Mewtwo is an all-star, and for Sakurai to not treat him as such would be a criminal act. Although that is an opinion, I think that man people would agree, like you. I guess I was just hating on Dr. Mario earlier due to feeling sour, but I do firmly believe that he could have been an alt for Mario, since unlike Dark Pit or Lucina, they are the same person. But, regardless, what's done is done, Dr. mario is his own character.... and now I hope Mewtwo is as well.

 

[Morbi]

How about Option C:

I'd want a different clone over Dr. Mario.

Which is fair, there are many great options (Black Shadow, for instance); however, Dr. Mario being a variant of Nintendo's mascot along with the notion that he is a returning veteran makes him an ideal choice. Not only is he prominent with his association to Mario, but he has Smash relevance. He does not even technically represent the Mario games, he has his own franchise. I am just saying that he is not a bad choice. There are better choices, sure (Black Shadow for instance). I just fail to see the problem. I suppose I do not understand the complaints regarding his inclusion. They are about as petty as the Lucina complaints if you ask me.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Dr. Mario is a pretty big franchise in its own right so in all honesty Doc getting a spot isn't unwarranted regardless if he's just Mario in a different coat of paint.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I might be misconstruing your sentiment, but... could you clarify this for me?

Also, Wolf is not a clone just because he shares the Landmaster.

Neither Wolf or Lucas are clones, hence the quotation marks, as many people mistakenly label them as such.

I was just expressing my confusion at the lack of Wolf and Lucas. If the Ice Climbers/Snake are gone due to technical issues/licensing issues respectively, that's understandable. But what reason is there for Wolf and Lucas to be gone? The game isn't rushed, so it's not a Mewtwo situation. They obviously had enough time to add three clone characters, but not two veterans?

 

[Weeman]

How about Option C:

I'd want a different clone over Dr. Mario.

Doc also has the advantage of being a veteran, also would you rather have 'MURICA Mario?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Neither Wolf or Lucas are clones, hence the quotation marks, as many people mistakenly label them as such.

I was just expressing my confusion at the lack of Wolf and Lucas. If the Ice Climbers/Snake are gone due to technical issues/licensing issues respectively, that's understandable. But what reason is there for Wolf and Lucas to be gone? The game isn't rushed, so it's not a Mewtwo situation. They obviously had enough time to add three clone characters, but not two veterans?

I'm guessing time constraints and those two were a lower priority.

Also veterans take as much time as newcomers since you have to animate them again and such. The work is there already for Doc, Dark Pit and Lucina, however.

 

[Second Power]

Doc also has the advantage of being a veteran, also would you rather have 'MURICA Mario?

Shoots eagles instead fireballs.
Uses the american flag instead of a cape.
Does a slam dunk instead of the super jump punch.
His FLUDD shoots beer instead of water.

 

[~Krystal~]

USA... All the way.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'm guessing time constraints and those two were a lower priority.

Also veterans take as much time as newcomers since you have to animate them again and such. The work is there already for Doc, Dark Pit and Lucina, however.

They aren't clones, but they are still very similar in terms of proportions and specials. Do you really believe that they make everything from scratch? I'd think it's pretty clear that they ported Brawl over and started from that. It would be far easier to spiffy up Lucas and Wolf than it would be to make unique models and slap them over an existing character (well besides Dark Pit, there's barely a difference). Mind you, I'm not blaming the clones over this, it just seems odd that they would get priority over veterans.

 

[NickerBocker]

The one thing that irks me about the whole situation is, earlier in development, Sakurai said he wanted to avoid cuts as much as possible. Another thing he said was he was only going to add characters that bring something new to the game.

He went back on both of those things by removing characters who are, allegedly, fairly unique when compared to the new additions. Unless DP and Doc are somehow much more unique than anticipated (which I and many others doubt) then its strange Sakurai went against something he mentioned. It is especially frustrating when these characters coukd easily be alt costumes.

I understand the limitations of the 3DS for removing IC's, I just dont understand removing Wolf and Lucas.

 

[Spinosaurus]

They aren't clones, but they are still very similar in terms of proportions and specials. Do you really believe that they make everything from scratch? I'd think it's pretty clear that they ported Brawl over and started from that.

Yes, that's how it works. You can't just port everything over, especially not the animations.

Also, Lucas and Wolf have completely different animations, so they take work.

 

[NeonBurrito]

How about Option C:

I'd want a different clone over Dr. Mario.

If we're getting a clone character, it better be Mewtwo.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Yes, that's how it works. You can't just port everything over, especially not the animations.

Also, Lucas and Wolf have completely different animations, so they take work.

Yes, you can just port it over. What makes you think they can't do that? I'll eat my hat if they actually started from scratch.

Different animations, yes, but what I said was similar proportions. Ganondorf has different animations, but he's still a blatant clone.

 

[pupNapoleon]

So you like straight up clones/ripoffs better than unique characters? Have fun in the minority pal...

You must not have been formerly introduced.

Zeldamaster, meet my buddy, Morbie.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Yes, you can just port it over. What makes you think they can't do that? I'll eat my hat if they actually started from scratch.

Different animations, yes, but what I said was similar proportions. Ganondorf has different animations, but he's still a blatant clone.

Alright, here you go:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126202238&postcount=16684

There's a reason why the Project M team had to devote 700 hours into animating Mewtwo instead of just porting over his Melee animations.

 

[Weeman]

So you like straight up clones/ripoffs better than unique characters? Have fun in the minority pal...

Without clones we wouldn't have had Ganondorf, Falco or Roy in Melee, nor Lucina right now, seriously where do you get the idea that they take someone else's slot? It's either them or no one on their place, since they are late development additions.

 

[Kenith]

Dr. Mario is a pretty big franchise in its own right so in all honesty Doc getting a spot isn't unwarranted regardless if he's just Mario in a different coat of paint.

This is what I've been trying to tell people forever.
Since Tetris isn't owned by Nintendo, Dr. Mario is technically Nintendo's biggest puzzle game series.
There has been a Dr. Mario game on most of Nintendo's consoles.

 

[Niala]

Yes, you can just port it over. What makes you think they can't do that? I'll eat my hat if they actually started from scratch.

Different animations, yes, but what I said was similar proportions. Ganondorf has different animations, but he's still a blatant clone.

Maybe you can just port it over, but...

"Although the pace of the game had to be lowered compared to Melee in order to achieve this balance, we have managed to keep the dynamism because we didn’t have to gear towards novice players like we did with Brawl. In fact, we recreated all characters almost from scratch. Also, I feel on a personal level that this game is more interesting than the three previous games in the series."

(Full quote found here: http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...-smash-bros-more-interesting-than-the-others/)

Now you can say "almost" means they might have been able to take some aspects from Brawl, but by majority it seems they truly did recreate almost everything.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Alright, here you go:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126202238&postcount=16684

There's a reason why the Project M team had to devote 700 hours into animating Mewtwo instead of just porting over his Melee animations.

A bunch of blokes modding a game =/= an actual development team.

Anyway, this is a completely different development team than any of the previous games, just because different teams started from scratch previously doesn't mean the new team did as well. Really, as the games become bigger, it makes more sense to reuse assets to reduce development time. Though the main point I was making is that it is possible to just port things over.

Maybe you can just port it over, but...

"Although the pace of the game had to be lowered compared to Melee in order to achieve this balance, we have managed to keep the dynamism because we didn’t have to gear towards novice players like we did with Brawl. In fact, we recreated all characters almost from scratch. Also, I feel on a personal level that this game is more interesting than the three previous games in the series."

(Full quote found here: http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...-smash-bros-more-interesting-than-the-others/)

Now you can say "almost" means they might have been able to take some aspects from Brawl, but by majority it seems they truly did recreate everything.

From the guy that likened cutting characters to a "near death experience?" Developers like to say things that make them look good. It wouldn't look very good if he said "Yeah, we just reused everything from Brawl," it would make him sound lazy.

But yes, the "almost" is accurate, as they do tweak the veterans, but if anything it proves that they do just port them over.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Why are you insisting so hard that they ported them when I just linked you an explanation on why that's a really bad idea and when there's a quote straight from the horse's mouth saying they didn't?

Please tell me how they ported them over. Surely you must know about game development to know for sure that they did. Personally, I'd like to know if the animation files are the exact same as Brawl.

 

[Niala]

A bunch of blokes modding a game =/= an actual development team.

Anyway, this is a completely different development team than any of the previous games, just because different teams started from scratch previously doesn't mean the new team did as well. Really, as the games become bigger, it makes more sense to reuse assets to reduce development time. Though the main point I was making is that it is possible to just port things over.

From the guy that likened cutting characters to a "near death experience?" Developers like to say things that make them look good. It wouldn't look very good if he said "Yeah, we just reused everything from Brawl," it would make him sound lazy.

But yes, the "almost" is accurate, as they do tweak the veterans, but if anything it proves that they do just port them over.

I agree, it is possible to port things over and work from there.

I disagree with your assessment, however, although I'll abstain from saying why to avoid an argument. Maybe in some cases they took models or other aspects, but I truly believe the legitimacy of the statement, that he took some aspects, but recreated much of it.

 

[Muster]

From the guy that likened cutting characters to a "near death experience?"

Yeah, I doubt he actually meant anything close to this if he's doubled his cutting of unique characters from the last game.
The saddest part about smash 4 is that it will be the first time a veteran is cut and the first time an entire franchise is cut, with Icies and Snake causing the former and latter.

Regarding character porting, I'd say that the fact that most animations are 1:1 with brawl counterparts down to the frames would be an indicator that they are not taken from scratch.

 

[ElPanandero]

... and unnecessarily bring Mario to 7 characters (not even counting Yoshi)? You honestly think a pair of Doctor's clothes and a stethoscope are more necessary than the strongest Pokemon of all time, who introduced Mega-Evolution, is perhaps the third most popular Pokemon, and would represent the ensemble of legendary Pokemon. Look, I know Dr. Mario is not the reason as to why Mewtwo isn't in, but why someone would want him over Mewtwo makes little to no sense. But what's done is done, and we each have our own opinions, none of which will have an impact at this point. So let's stop arguing.

He didn't take MEwtwo's spot. He didn't take Mewtwo's spot. He didn't take mewtwo's spot. Is three times enough to get people to understand? Do I need more? Clones aren't added in over other characters. At most you could be mad Doc is in over some other clone you really wanted, but Not mewtwo. This is probably the most frustrating thing in the entire smash community.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

It's either Doctor Mario or no additional character, not Doctor Mario or Mewtwo.

Unless you'd rather we don't get Doc at all.

How about Option C:

I'd want a different clone over Dr. Mario.

Option D, maybe?

Not getting clones in the first place, Dr. Mario as an alternate costume for Mario. You guys can't tell me all the collective effort of Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit wouldn't have given us enough time to get Lucas and/or Wolf back instead. 2 semi-clones are much preferred over 3 regular clones any day of the week.

 

[BluePikmin11]

To continue with @ Morbi , I was literally banking on the Ninka_kiwi leak for my prediction the moment the leak appeared despite the minimal evidence it showed to be real, I banked on it's newcomers before the evidence of the leak has shown. I feel really accomplished.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I realized something everyone.

I honestly, of course have preferences to the roster. I want the big three- Ridley, K Rool, Mewtwo.
I want a lot more. Dixie. Sceptile. Captain Toad. And then other series. Ray MK. Chibi-Robo. Isaac. Lip. Chorus Kids. Banjo-Kazooie! Probably too many more to name.

What I want more than any of those characters...

Well, I hope Sakurai....I really, really hope he figured out how to give me that secret 'Warning: Challenger Approaching' moment. again. If he did that, I don't care if it is a playable Pink Gold Peach, and I will be excited! I simply want a character I did not know about to challenge me!

 

[Weeman]

I realized something everyone.

I honestly, of course have preferences to the roster. I want the big three- Ridley, K Rool, Mewtwo.
I want a lot more. Dixie. Sceptile. Captain Toad. And then other series. Ray MK. Chibi-Robo. Isaac. Lip. Chorus Kids. Banjo-Kazooie! Probably too many more to name.

What I want more than any of those characters...

Well, I hope Sakurai....I really, really hope he figured out how to give me that secret 'Warning: Challenger Approaching' moment. again. If he did that, I don't care if it is a playable Pink Gold Peach, and I will be excited! I simply want a character I did not know about to challenge me!

Then leave the internet until october 3rd

 

[The Light Music Club]

My ranking list:

Super Duper Excited For:

Palutena, Ike, Robin, Pikachu, Duck Hunt Dog, Lucina

Glad They Made It:

Bowser Jr., Bowser, Charizard, Jiggs, Yoshi, Game and Watch, Falco

Yeah They Deserve It. Whatever:

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Wario, DK, Diddy, Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Samus, Zero Suit, Kirby, Dedede, Meta Knight, Fox, R.O.B., Ness, Falcon, Villager, Olimar, Lucario, Sonic

Could Do Without:

Pit, Villager, Shulk, Toon Link

I Really Don’t Like You:

Rosalina and Luma, Little Mac, Greninja, Wii Fit Trainer, Megaman

Punching Bag/ Worthless to me:

Pac Man, Mii, Dark Pit


I honestly don’t know where to put Dr. Mario… I mean I love the dude but he doesn’t deserve to be in before Lucas and Wolf.


Characters that’d I’d be fine with not being in if Ice Climbers were back (All of them combined):

Rosalina and Luma, Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt Dog, Little Mac, Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Shulk, Pac Man, and Mega Man.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I honestly don’t know where to put Dr. Mario… I mean I love the dude but he doesn’t deserve to be in before Lucas and Wolf.

These kind of statements really confuse me, you say you love the character but you don't want him/her in Smash. It's extremely ironic to me.

 

[Weeman]

These kind of statements really confuse me, you say you love the character but you don't want him/her in Smash. It's extremely ironic to me.

Deserving doesn't mean wanting, though i don't think they can be compared, seeing that Wolf is a unique character, while Dr. Mario was probably worked out from an alternate costume.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Been gone all day. Someone help summarize what happened? I'm too lazy to read 15+ pages

 

[Weeman]

Been gone all day. Someone help summarize what happened? I'm too lazy to read 15+ pages

Shulk reveal, leak is real, Shrek is dreck, Dr. Mario being a waste of a slot rants and speculation about today's event at PAX.

 

[The Light Music Club]

These kind of statements really confuse me, you say you love the character but you don't want him/her in Smash. It's extremely ironic to me.

I loved Dr. Mario in Melee, and I was furious at Lucas' inclusion to Brawl. However, I still think Lucas deserves it more. I'm not going to be bias about it.

In my opinion this is it:

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yes, you can just port it over. What makes you think they can't do that? I'll eat my hat if they actually started from scratch.

Different animations, yes, but what I said was similar proportions. Ganondorf has different animations, but he's still a blatant clone.

Well, Sakurai claims he started from scratch for each character.
Just google 'character selection,' it is the predominant article.

 

[Masonomace]

I realized something everyone.

I honestly, of course have preferences to the roster. I want the big three- Ridley, K Rool, Mewtwo.
I want a lot more. Dixie. Sceptile. Captain Toad. And then other series. Ray MK. Chibi-Robo. Isaac. Lip. Chorus Kids. Banjo-Kazooie! Probably too many more to name.

What I want more than any of those characters...

Well, I hope Sakurai....I really, really hope he figured out how to give me that secret 'Warning: Challenger Approaching' moment. again. If he did that, I don't care if it is a playable Pink Gold Peach, and I will be excited! I simply want a character I did not know about to challenge me!

I want more than just the Warning!: Challenger Approaching moment. As an old Smash player, I've been hurt from removals development teams & Sakurai took out. BOARD THE PLATFORMS! That's only been in Smash 64 & if not brought up again to return for Smash 4 & 5, it will forever stay in Smash 64. Race to the Finish! This mode was simple yet grew on me after Smash 64 returning to Melee, now forever gone unless brought back for Smash 4 & 5. I'm hoping that these modes can be returned for WiiU's SSB5 to differentiate as a bonus hype, I'd surely buy the game for these returning fable game modes!

My favorite Warning moment from Smash Brothers is probably Melee's Warning clip. The silhouette, the BG SFX, the color, the danger, the surprise, all the elements put in those tiny clips made it exciting to get on with fighting the characters & beat them.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I want more than just the Warning!: Challenger Approaching moment. As an old Smash player, I've been hurt from removals development teams & Sakurai took out. BOARD THE PLATFORMS! That's only been in Smash 64 & if not brought up again to return for Smash 4 & 5, it will forever stay in Smash 64. Race to the Finish! This mode was simple yet grew on me after Smash 64 returning to Melee, now forever gone unless brought back for Smash 4 & 5. I'm hoping that these modes can be returned for WiiU's SSB5 to differentiate as a bonus hype, I'd surely buy the game for these returning fable game modes!

My favorite Warning moment from Smash Brothers is probably Melee's Warning clip. The silhouette, the BG SFX, the color, the danger, the surprise, all the elements put in those tiny clips made it exciting to get on with fighting the characters & beat them.

Dude, I'm 95% sure Board the Platforms will be some how in this game. At least the Wii U version. But it will be "Across the Platforms"

 

[~Krystal~]

In addition to the silhouettes with accompanying warning siren for unlockable characters, I want the giant Donkey Kong battle in classic mode again. Piggybacking off of what @ Masonomace said, the return of boarding platforms would be splendid as well. I'm already pretty satisfied with the rest of the extra content in this game.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

In addition to the silhouettes with accompanying warning siren for unlockable characters, I want the giant Donkey Kong battle in classic mode again. Piggybacking off of what @ Masonomace said, the return of boarding platforms would be splendid as well. I'm already pretty satisfied with the rest of the extra content in this game.

Giant DK is already confirmed.

 

[The Light Music Club]

In addition to the silhouettes with accompanying warning siren for unlockable characters, I want the giant Donkey Kong battle in classic mode again. Piggybacking off of what @ Masonomace said, the return of boarding platforms would be splendid as well. I'm already pretty satisfied with the rest of the extra content in this game.

Yeah I think Giant Donkey Kong has been confirmed. And I'm 95% sure "Across the Platforms" is a thing.