Character Discussion Thread

[domokl]

yeah im thinking its real at this point.. especially since there seems to be 3 different leakers leaking all of this apparently

 

[Burruni]

There's a number of really odd design choices and inconsistencies that make me question a lot about this roster ontop of the true selection we have for newcomers. I'm un-watching this thread for a few days because there's nothing that's going to be gained by those who point out several things wrong in what has been presented and those that go with what could be right.
This roster is a new Ridley/DarkPit/Gematsu argument. I am in utter disbelief of this roster until it is inarguably proven real.
So I apologize for those of you who enjoyed my participation of this thread, trying to be a fairly neutral person with proper evidence and explanation to anything I added to discussions. I've said all that I need to or want to about this "leak" and I doubt we will differentiate from this for a week or two an acceptable amount to properly discuss other characters.

 

[Link Sharingan]

Could it be?

Spoiler

Look at Wario in this one.

I did all I could, I hope this sort of helps.

they probably did something similar to this

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Man, we're STILL talking about it? Well, it does give me the chance to bring up another killer aside from the ESRB stuff.

Ice Climbers being DLC can't be right. It simply can't be. It directly contradicts Ice Climbers being left out due to technical issues. Sakurai all but proved they were higher priority by talking about the technical problems with them. If they were overcome, they'd be on the roster. If they weren't, the wouldn't be DLC.

While it's hard to scramble together absolute 100% concrete proof that this is fake, why do we need to? I don't care enough to list every reason we found, but there is no doubt enough to form a more than solid basis to believing that this is fake.

 

[Shorts]

Doesnt the ICs being DLC only further prove he had problems with them? They were so behind in development they had to be DLC / Wii U characters?

The game's roster is super awesome, and I'm excited.

It fits well with the Sal leak, who obviously had some sort of inside info. Even if dated / slightly incorrect.

 

[T-Hell]

they probably did something similar to this

Yeah they probably made simple drawings and old models look like HD models and tweak some aspects to look like slightly different to existing models.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Man, we're STILL talking about it? Well, it does give me the chance to bring up another killer aside from the ESRB stuff.

Ice Climbers being DLC can't be right. It simply can't be. It directly contradicts Ice Climbers being left out due to technical issues. Sakurai all but proved they were higher priority by talking about the technical problems with them. If they were overcome, they'd be on the roster. If they weren't, the wouldn't be DLC.

While it's hard to scramble together absolute 100% concrete proof that this is fake, why do we need to? I don't care enough to list every reason we found, but there is no doubt enough to form a more than solid basis to believing that this is fake.

???

Ice Climbers weren't even mentioned in the interview. That's something the translator added in later.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

???

Ice Climbers weren't even mentioned in the interview. That's something the translator added in later.

Since when? I've never heard that ever since the interview came out. Not saying you're wrong, but I'm gonna need a source.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Since when did Ice Climbers being DLC become contradictory?
If they were left due to technical issues, they can later be in the game as DLC. It's pretty straight-forward.

 

[Arcadenik]

But his special moves would be different than Mario's! That's against the rules!

Maybe Dr. Mario's Down+B is F.L.U.D.D. and it still makes sense because Dr. Mario could be giving enema to butthurt patients.

 

[Champ Gold]

Christ I thought this **** would drop but does anyone have the translated Famistu article back around mid July with Sakurai talking about Lucina?

I got somethings to investigate. Gonna go Pheonix Wright all over this leak

 

[TylerBlackRunIt]

I honestly despise that "leaked" roster. I still hoping Impa, Bandana Dee, Mewtwo, Ridley, King K. Rool, and Paper Mario become playable.

Duck Hunt Dog is a masterpiece.

 

[---]

http://smashboards.com/threads/potential-roster-stage-leak-thread.364914/#post-17339973

If you wish to discuss the potential leaks please refer to this thread now.

 

[Masonomace]

Afternoon thread, how about discussing about a charac--- @ --- is on top of changing the subject well done.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Since when did Ice Climbers being DLC become contradictory?
If they were left due to technical issues, they can later be in the game as DLC. It's pretty straight-forward.

It does seem quite silly to see a fighter who appeared in Melee AND Brawl to get removed from Smash 4 though.

 

[ElPanandero]

So we can't discuss characters in terms of this leak, but we had to sit through Gamatsu is god for like 3 weeks here? malarky.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It does seem quite silly to see a fighter who appeared in Melee AND Brawl to get removed from Smash 4 though.

So Ice Climbers being removed automatically means they are gone forever since they are not in the final roster? Technical difficulties IMO take priority more than all the support arguments and reasons the Ice Climbers have.

 

[Masonomace]

As far as IC's game-play, it's silly to avoid being grabbed to win the MU. . .that's ridiculous. Fixing that plus the technical issues is a lot of tweaking for a character. It's not like a Rosaluma scenario wehre the Luma can grab.

 

[Rockaphin]

I honestly despise that "leaked" roster. I still hoping Impa, Bandana Dee, Mewtwo, Ridley, King K. Rool, and Paper Mario become playable.
Duck Hunt Dog is a masterpiece.

Wow, you literally named off my most wanted unannounced characters.
Your post deserves a medal. So you get a Rockaphin's Picks Medal.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So Ice Climbers being removed automatically means they are gone forever since they are not in the final roster? Technical difficulties IMO take priority more than all the support arguments and reasons the Ice Climbers have.

I still can't see why the Ice Climbers can't work on the 3DS though, since Popo and Nana use the exact same moveset, unlike with Rosalina and her Luma partner.

 

[NickerBocker]

Since when did Ice Climbers being DLC become contradictory?
If they were left due to technical issues, they can later be in the game as DLC. It's pretty straight-forward.

Okay, im not a game programmer, but I have done my fair share of programming in the past so maybe I can clear this up.

There are most likely 2 reasons why Ice climbers have a technical issues: RAM requirements or Memory requirements. If it is the latter, then it could be easily alleviated through DLC. The one character we can compare this to is Rosalina, which requires more memory. It takes less memory to have a model follow another model and mimic It with a slight delay as opposed to having a different model with different abilities being controlled by the player as well as the base model. Im not 100% sure on how these characters are programmed, but I think thats how it works.

However, if the RAM is the issue, which makes more sense, as the game has to process 2 models at once, DLC will not fix the problem. This is why ATs and other things have a lower resolution, and the game runs at 30 fps during 3d. I mean, he could technically do that with the ICs to fix the problem.

It is hard to determine what the problem exactly is. Sakurai may have made that statement about the ICs because that was a short term problem he was having at that exact moment. He could have fixed it, or it could have been a serious problem.

It seems weird that Sakurai would mention the ICs problems so early in development and not try and fix the problem initially, considering he is trying to include as many characters as possible. Adding them as DLC after seems weird considering how long he has been working on them.

Tldr: if Rosalina works, then ICs should too. If Sakurai has been working with ICs for over a year, adding them as DLC after release seems like a money grab.

 

[Diddy Kong]

???

Ice Climbers weren't even mentioned in the interview. That's something the translator added in later.

And then why would the Polar Bear still be an enemy in Smash Run?

Also, if Ice Climbers where so difficult to port to the 3DS, what about Rosalina?

This "leak" is some real bull****.

 

[ElPanandero]

And then why would the Polar Bear still be an enemy in Smash Run?

Also, if Ice Climbers where so difficult to port to the 3DS, what about Rosalina?

This "leak" is some real bull****.

Sigh, they didn't plan of scrapping them, it was a matter of difficultires ergo IC's and their enemies were planned from the start. Why would you scarp a smash run enemy for no reason?

Rosuma and IC's are different cases, one has two complex models, the other has a hilariously simple one. One is harder to generate on the ****ty DS than the other.

 

[Rockaphin]

I think the Ice Climbers would use more RAM than Rosalina and Luma. I'm not 100% sure how Luma works but I could see eight Ice Climbers causing more issues than four Rosalina's and four Lumas. That is, if every Luma is out.

 

[Deleted member]

PSA: We don't know if the Polar Bear is actually still an enemy at this point.
We've only had what, two images?
One of which was intended for the PotD but suspiciously taken down and replaced with pics of the Bullet Bill item?

 

[Rockaphin]

PSA: We don't know if the Polar Bear is actually still an enemy at this point.
We've only had what, two images?
One of which was intended for the PotD but suspiciously taken down and replaced with pics of the Bullet Bill item?

Also, just because we see the Polar Bear in Smash Run doesn't mean the Ice Climbers will return. Sure it hints towards the series being recognized and they were veterans and all, but it could just be that.

 

[GunGunW]

Maybe the Ice Climbers could be like the start of the DLC, and possibly be free where as the others aren't?

 

[NickerBocker]

Rosuma and IC's are different cases, one has two complex models, the other has a hilariously simple one. One is harder to generate on the ****ty DS than the other.

Depends on how you use the term complex.

ICs probably require more RAM, and Rosalina probably requires more memory.

Think of ICs as the copy paste function. A simple command that requires few lines of code, but takes quite a bit of power to perform.

 

[ElPanandero]

Depends on how you use the term complex.

ICs probably require more RAM, and Rosalina probably requires more memory.

Think of ICs as the copy paste function. A simple command that requires few lines of code, but takes quite a bit of power to perform.

Yea that's what I meant, I was going off your argument. The graphical limitations of the DS are my concern, and even a simple Ice climber model, done twice seems like the limit (of course done 4 times)

 

[Weeman]

So, how have things gone with this leak? have we got anything new?

 

[Masonomace]

So worse-case scenario, IC's for WiiU no doubt?

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Since when did Ice Climbers being DLC become contradictory?
If they were left due to technical issues, they can later be in the game as DLC. It's pretty straight-forward.

If the technical difficulties could be overcome easily enough to make them DLC, why wouldn't the team just make them instead of making, for example, the clone-characters?

So worse-case scenario, IC's for WiiU no doubt?

The games were confirmed to have the same roster a long, long time ago.

 

[Link Sharingan]

I still can't see why the Ice Climbers can't work on the 3DS though, since Popo and Nana use the exact same moveset, unlike with Rosalina and her Luma partner.

both Nana and Popo are bigger than Luma.

 

[Croph]

@ NickerBocker
Do you think transformation characters (like Pokemon Trainer) perhaps faced a similar RAM problem to the ICs? Which may be a reason why Sakurai separated them?

I've always worried that the ICs may become separated if Sakurai cannot solve the fighter's issues (could also be because of gameplay, it does need some tweaks. Idk how Sakurai feels about those 0% --> death chaingrabs). Sure, you lose the IC's main novelty (which could be a reason not to add them altogether), but I personally don't mind. To me it's better than not including them (Nana or Popo could appear in a FS or something).

I could have really done without a 3DS Smash or at least have of both versions' character roster be slightly different. Alas, unless if Sakurai changed his mind, different rosters is not what we're gonna get.

 

[Weeman]

Wasn't the DLC part supposed to be fake though? at least that's what people were saying.

 

[NickerBocker]

@ NickerBocker
Do you think transformation characters (like Pokemon Trainer) perhaps faced a similar RAM problem to the ICs? Which may be a reason why Sakurai separated them?

I've always worried that the ICs may become separated if Sakurai cannot solve the fighter's issues (could also be because of gameplay, it does need some tweaks. Idk how Sakurai feels about those 0% --> death chaingrabs). Sure, you lose the IC's main novelty (which could be a reason not to add them altogether), but I personally don't mind. To me it's better than not including them (Nana or Popo could appear in a FS or something).

I could have really done without a 3DS Smash or at least have of both versions' character roster be slightly different. Alas, unless if Sakurai changed his mind, different rosters is not what we're gonna get.

Definitely. The wii had increased load times for Shiek when compared to Melee, so pokemon trainer faced the same issues. I dont know if thats the full motivation for removal, but it could very well be. The models are only going to get harder/longer to load.

I dont think its the exact same, but gaving to load the characters every time a transofrmation comes about is pretty demanding on the system.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Definitely. The wii had increased load times for Shiek when compared to Melee, so pokemon trainer faced the same issues. I dont know if thats the full motivation for removal, but it could very well be. The models are only going to get harder/longer to load.

I dont think its the exact same, but gaving to load the characters every time a transofrmation comes about is pretty demanding on the system.

This information is very appreciated.
I think we have the solution regarding IC.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

There's too much wrong with this leak. Maybe a block of flaws thrown at you at once will get you to realize that? Introducing:

God Robert's Long Post of Why This Leak is Bull****
Credit goes to a YouTube comment by "Fabel Go" on Relax Alax's newest video for having originally said most of this, by the way.

Start off by appreciating this piece of evidence right here that goes with these images. I'll let all of this speak for itself.

Next, it's rather convenient that Shulk's face is the exact same shape, size, and angle as Little Mac's.


Next, this is the very same model for Doctor Mario in his portrait:

Compared to his portrait's render at the bottom right. Apply shading and edit the pose. Bam, it's the exact same.

This also shows the levels in the Duck hunt, Diddy, and Ness picture even though they're colored as if controlled by human players. In the Bowser Jr. picture, it shows levels of other players but they're grayed out to signify that they're CPU controlled.

Look again at Diddy, Duck Hunt, and Ness. There are no series icons behind the characters.

And who can forget about Ness's shirt? Read everything down below and then go back up to compare it with the new render of Ness above. You'll see it doesn't stay with his design.

Additionally, let's compare all of this to the Palutena Leak.

This has been the only "leaked" image to come true thus far. Notice the quality on the image. See how it's actually within a 3DS screen. It's not compressed and small. Throughout WEEKS of nitpicking, we couldn't find a single thing wrong with it, as the model was new and didn't match up with anything we had seen before. Even Mario, in a remarkably similar pose, was in a different frame altogether. This should be our standard.

Compare to the various screenshots we got. The screens are connected as if they're on a computer, leaving question as to why one couldn't get higher quality images in the form of a screenshot. This is on top of all the consistency errors pointed out above. Again, we've found out all of this within a day. If a leak is real, it wouldn't have all of these flaws to point out in the first place. This isn't talking about our roster of characters or stages. This is speaking entirely on objective terms of inaccurate UI, similar character renders, and formatting issues of the actual photos themselves.

And to those of you still in love with the whole "muh new Duck Hunt and Jr. renders", it's not like we've never had new renders before that end up fake in the first place. Even the Chrom Leak, that beautifully done thing, was a fake. So your precious Dunk Hunt be damned, new renders will contribute towards the strength of a leak, but sure as hell don't cover up anything else wrong with it.

So, in conclusion:

 

[TumblrFamous]

There's too much wrong with this leak. Maybe a block of flaws thrown at you at once will get you to realize that? Introducing:

God Robert's Long Post of Why This Leak is Bull****
Credit goes to a YouTube comment by "Fabel Go" on Relax Alax's newest video for having originally said most of this, by the way.

Start off by appreciating this piece of evidence right here that goes with these images. I'll let all of this speak for itself.

Next, it's rather convenient that Shulk's face is the exact same shape, size, and angle as Little Mac's.


Next, this is the very same model for Doctor Mario in his portrait:

Compared to his portrait's render at the bottom right. Apply shading and edit the pose. Bam, it's the exact same.

This also shows the levels in the Duck hunt, Diddy, and Ness picture even though they're colored as if controlled by human players. In the Bowser Jr. picture, it shows levels of other players but they're grayed out to signify that they're CPU controlled.

Look again at Diddy, Duck Hunt, and Ness. There are no series icons behind the characters.

And who can forget about Ness's shirt? Read everything down below and then go back up to compare it with the new render of Ness above. You'll see it doesn't stay with his design.

Additionally, let's compare all of this to the Palutena Leak.

This has been the only "leaked" image to come true thus far. Notice the quality on the image. See how it's actually within a 3DS screen. It's not compressed and small. Throughout WEEKS of nitpicking, we couldn't find a single thing wrong with it, as the model was new and didn't match up with anything we had seen before. Even Mario, in a remarkably similar pose, was in a different frame altogether. This should be our standard.

Compare to the various screenshots we got. The screens are connected as if they're on a computer, leaving question as to why one couldn't get higher quality images in the form of a screenshot. This is on top of all the consistency errors pointed out above. Again, we've found out all of this within a day. If a leak is real, it wouldn't have all of these flaws to point out in the first place. This isn't talking about our roster of characters or stages. This is speaking entirely on objective terms of inaccurate UI, similar character renders, and formatting issues of the actual photos themselves.

And to those of you still in love with the whole "muh new Duck Hunt and Jr. renders", it's not like we've never had new renders before that end up fake in the first place. Even the Chrom Leak, that beautifully done thing, was a fake. So your precious Dunk Hunt be damned, new renders will contribute towards the strength of a leak, but sure as hell don't cover up anything else wrong with it.

So, in conclusion:

PREACH.

Thought the render of Shulk is beautiful.

 

[ElPanandero]

Man, we're STILL talking about it? Well, it does give me the chance to bring up another killer aside from the ESRB stuff.

Ice Climbers being DLC can't be right. It simply can't be. It directly contradicts Ice Climbers being left out due to technical issues. Sakurai all but proved they were higher priority by talking about the technical problems with them. If they were overcome, they'd be on the roster. If they weren't, the wouldn't be DLC.

While it's hard to scramble together absolute 100% concrete proof that this is fake, why do we need to? I don't care enough to list every reason we found, but there is no doubt enough to form a more than solid basis to believing that this is fake.

There's a lot of inofrmation that it is true, or partially true, or at leasr accurate information. But we're not allowed to discuss the leak anymore here, so let's talk about characters, or movesets, or why Palutenua is silly

EDIT: I should say as much info, both side shave inconclusive evidence that supports their argument, but neother side has enough apparently