Character Discussion Thread

[Curious Villager]

Sorry, I was trying to showcase how Ridley could work as a playable character in Smash Bros. I guess I should have made that more clear.

Oh I see, then yeah, you should have made that a bit more clear then. Sorry for the misunderstanding. ^^

 

[Hotfeet444]

As far as playable characters go, I think Mac is fine on his own, even though Punch-Out is my favorite series.

We haven't talked about Shulk much yet. I think he has very decent chances, and he'd be really fun to play. He's still on my roster, anyway.

I think Shulk would be one of the most unique additions to Smash 4, especially in the style I designed him in, having a RPG-esque level up system for his blade, the Monado.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I know a lot of his detractors think he's just another swordsman, but he really isn't. Anybody who knows anything about Xenoblade Chronicles knows that.

Also, I may not be the owner of it, but I'd like to see the Shulk thread get more traffic. Visit it guys! It needs moveset ideas, and I think he'd garner a lot more supporters through watching gameplay or seeing some ideas.

I still think the fact that Xenoblade Chronicles was straight up mentioned by Iwata, and given it's own Puzzle Panel (I don't necessarily know the significance of this. Someone care to elaborate?) give some idea of how important Xenoblade has become. There is a series starting based around gameplay from Xenoblade. Shulk is a perfect figurehead character.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I always imagined Shulk to be Super Smash Bros. answer to Sol Badguy.

Gameplay wise, not character, for obvious reasons.

 

[?????????????]

I know a lot of his detractors think he's just another swordsman, but he really isn't. Anybody who knows anything about Xenoblade Chronicles knows that.

Anyone who thinks he's "just another swordsman" has done less than minimal research on the character.

If anyone has truly made this statement about Shulk...I...really don't know what dumber thing could be said!!

Like, I can understand someone saying that about Chrom. He's a pretty basic swordsman. But Shulk has so many special abilities and the sword itself is nothing like a regular sword!

 

[Hotfeet444]

I always imagined Shulk to be Super Smash Bros. answer to Sol Badguy.

Gameplay wise, not character, for obvious reasons.

He always seemed more akin to Ragna the Bloodedge thanks to the size and style of his sword.

I know a lot of his detractors think he's just another swordsman, but he really isn't. Anybody who knows anything about Xenoblade Chronicles knows that.

Also, I may not be the owner of it, but I'd like to see the Shulk thread get more traffic. Visit it guys! It needs moveset ideas, and I think he'd garner a lot more supporters through watching gameplay or seeing some ideas.

I still think the fact that Xenoblade Chronicles was straight up mentioned by Iwata, and given it's own Puzzle Panel (I don't necessarily know the significance of this. Someone care to elaborate?) give some idea of how important Xenoblade has become. There is a series starting based around gameplay from Xenoblade. Shulk is a perfect figurehead character.

I'll look at it in a bit and leave my moveset video there.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Anyone who thinks he's "just another swordsman" has done less than minimal research on the character.

If anyone has truly made this statement about Shulk...I...really don't know what dumber thing could be said!!

Like, I can understand someone saying that about Chrom. He's a pretty basic swordsman. But Shulk has so many special abilities and the sword itself is nothing like a regular sword!

As someone who has seen only a little in-battle gameplay of Xenoblade Chronicles, I still don't see the appeal. From what I understand, his sword can transform and he has access to magic. What else makes him so unique? Does a unique weapon necessarily translate into a unique playstyle?

Video examples would really help.

 

[Luigi#1]

I don't see the point of the Pikmin Captains being playable.

 

[?????????????]

As someone who has seen only a little in-battle gameplay of Xenoblade Chronicles, I still don't see the appeal. From what I understand, his sword can transform and he has access to magic. What else makes him so unique? Does a unique weapon necessarily translate into a unique playstyle?

Not necessarily; not as a generality anyway. But a transforming sword and access to magic should automatically tell someone that Shulk is not "just another swordsman," and that was my main point.

Regardless, I do think this translates well for Shulk in SSB4 since his blade can change size and shoot ether blasts. It makes him a melee-based ranged character...like Dhalsim in Street Fighter.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Anyone who thinks he's "just another swordsman" has done less than minimal research on the character.

If anyone has truly made this statement about Shulk...I...really don't know what dumber thing could be said!!

Like, I can understand someone saying that about Chrom. He's a pretty basic swordsman. But Shulk has so many special abilities and the sword itself is nothing like a regular sword!

Exactly what I think.

I just looked up the info on Puzzle Swap. Xenoblade Chronicles, a one shot title, was given a Puzzle Swap game, which is only done otherwise by Mario, Star Fox, Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Chibi-Robo, Donkey Kong...the titan series. That's quite a feat to be honest if we're looking at it comparatively. The Last Story, nor Pandora's Tower achieved that. That's something for Xenoblade.

 

[FlareHabanero]

He always seemed more akin to Ragna the Bloodedge thanks to the size and style of his sword.

Ragna is also another good choice, but it's probably just a prospective thing.

I do like to compare potential newcomers to other fighting game characters, to form a basis. Hence why I compared Little Mac to Dudley and Balrog and Ridley to Sentinel.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Video examples would really help.

Er...Look about 5 posts up.

Ragna is also another good choice, but it's probably just a prospective thing.

I do like to compare potential newcomers to other fighting game characters, to form a basis. Hence why I compared Little Mac to Dudley and Balrog and Ridley to Sentinel.

Ridley to Sentinel? I always found him more akin to Firebrand myself.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ridley to Sentinel? I always found him more akin to Firebrand myself.

Conceptually.

A large character that is surprisingly lethal with aerial combos.

Moves would be more akin to Firebrand for obvious reasons.

 

[?????????????]

I once used Sentinel as an example of why Ridley was not too big, given that Sentinel is usually larger than portrayed in MvC3. I was told to stop comparing Ridley to characters in other fighting games because they weren't Nintendo.

Yeah, cause NINTENDO NEVER RESIZES CHARACTERS!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think Shulk would be one of the most unique additions to Smash 4, especially in the style I designed him in, having a RPG-esque level up system for his blade, the Monado.

I do like the concept you have with the leveling up gimmick. It sounds like it could work well. The only thing I would change would be that at the basic level, specials can't be used.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I once used Sentinel as an example of why Ridley was not too big, given that Sentinel is usually larger than portrayed in MvC3. I was told to stop comparing Ridley to characters in other fighting games because they weren't Nintendo.

Yeah, cause NINTENDO NEVER RESIZES CHARACTERS!

Which is ironic considering we're getting characters that are influenced by other fighting games.

For example, Rosalina's gimmick with controlling a puppet is similar to Zato-1 and Eddie, and Little Mac's meter is on par with the power meters you'd traditionally see in fighting games.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I do like the concept you have with the leveling up gimmick. It sounds like it could work well. The only thing I would change would be that at the basic level, specials can't be used.

Specials can't be used at the start level, but once the player deals 20% damage, the specials are activated as the Monado itself opens up and activates.

Conceptually.

A large character that is surprisingly lethal with aerial combos.

Moves would be more akin to Firebrand for obvious reasons.

I understand, it's kind of how I compare Takamaru to Mitsurugi and Bishamon...less Bishamon.

I once used Sentinel as an example of why Ridley was not too big, given that Sentinel is usually larger than portrayed in MvC3. I was told to stop comparing Ridley to characters in other fighting games because they weren't Nintendo.

Yeah, cause NINTENDO NEVER RESIZES CHARACTERS!

Well, not only did Capcom resize a Sentinel, but they actually built their own, proudfully named COTA-1994 (The name being a reference to Children of the Atom, the first X-Men Fighting game made by capcom, and 1994 being the game's release date) This was the first game after Darkstalkers to take advantage of the new style of 2D fighting the former introduced as well.

Basically, it'd be no different for Sora LTD. to create their own specially sized Ridley clone.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

People come up with terrible reasons as to why things can't be applied to Smash Bros. Mainly because people don't want to be wrong that Ridley can't work.

But whatever. Let them be wrong. They decide what applies and what doesn't apparently.

Just like how Shulk is just another swordsman.

 

[BKupa666]

Perhaps people don't literally mean Shulk's sword capabilities are generic when they call him "just another swordsman," but are rather dismissive of his character or personality, which falls in line with that of your typical blonde JRPG protagonist for the most part. I imagine that's all the more easy when he was lumped in alongside Isaac and Saki as a part of some fan-made trio back in the day (before people stopped promoting the other two for "muh relevance" reasons).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Really, most detractors are contradictory.

Some say Ridley is too big. If they support K.Rool, who is literally twice the size of Donkey Kong, they are a hypocrite.

Take Shokio for example. Claims that Dragons have to be big, and that Bowser can be small because...he's a turtle? WHAT?! What a terrible argument. Anybody who takes that seriously is just not thinking clearly. How about Game of Thrones? There's a tiny dragon in there. It's small because it's a baby? Doesn't matter. It's a dragon, and it isn't big.

If it was a general understanding that all dragons needed to be big at all times, then why are Charizard, Salamence, Dragonite...etc..., hardly that large compared to the human characters?

Sheesh. Some Smash fans are idiots. If you're going to make an argument, actually make sense while doing so.

 

[JamesDNaux]

How do people view me based on my avatar than?

"Yellow characters." [laughs]

God do I feel awkward now. Not because of your own beliefs of yours...but everyone's beliefs of mine.

Well I always like yours.

And here's that Ganondorf moveset I was working on:
[collapse=Decloned Ganon]
Standard Attacks
Jab- Single strong thrust like in Brawl, but can be charged by holding down the button, resulting in a mini-Warlock Punch.
Combo- Continues from his jab with continuous sword stabs for as long as the button is mashed. This cannot be performed if the jab was charged.
FTilt- Same as in Brawl, performs a Sparta kick, angle-able like in Project M.
UTilt- A dark uppercut, similar to Snake's Project M UTilt.
DTilt- Same as in Brawl, but with added dark magic effects.
Dash- Same shoulder bash as Brawl, but with an added sword swipe quickly afterwards.

Smash Attacks
Forward- A two part attack, does his elbow bash as in Brawl, but then swings out with a wide sword strike upon a second press of the button.
Up- Swings his sword upwards and ends in a thrust like Marth's Up Smash, has a dark electrical effect as a callback to Demise.
Down- Does his own small version of Link's spin attack, swiping his sword in a low spin. Leaves a dark trail that causes damage. Functions the same as his previous down smash.

Arials
Nair- Spins around swinging his sword, covers himself in damaging dark magic.
Fair- Swings his sword forward in a downward arch.
Bair- Swings his sword back with a dark magic effect and then kicks once.
Uair- Same as in Brawl.
Dair- Same as in Brawl.

Specials
Neutral- Dead Man's Volley: A projectile attack that can be controlled similarly to Din's Fire on the initial release, but can only be charged while Ganondorf is holding it. It can be reflected back with attacks, but will still cause damage if it hits shields, this can lead to the classic "tennis match" between Ganondorf and an opponent. Has slight homing properties.
Side- Dark Choke: Same as in Brawl, but with added armour frames, can be canceled into a kick similar to Wizard's Foot by holding the button.
Down- Warlock Slam: A similar move to Wizard's Foot in the air, it causes Ganondorf to slam down to the ground with a kick. On the ground, he will stomp the ground and slam down his hand with a shockwave that can stun enemies.
Up- Gerudo Dragon: An upgraded version of Ganondorf's previous recovery, he will still perform the dark uppercut if he misses and will still grab when he hits, but the height of his leap is greatly increased and ends in a slight hover.
Final Smash- Beast Ganon: Ganondorf transforms into his dark beast form which is now controllable this time, it lasts about as long as Giga Bowser in Brawl. His sword attacks are now replaced with trident strikes while his other attacks are replaced with ramming attacks. His special attacks are changed to reflect his beastly form:
Neutral- A stronger version of the Dead Man's Volley that doesn't need a charge and won't be reflected back at Ganon, but only dissipates if attacked or reflected.
Side- A charging ram, similar to the movement his original final smash from Brawl did.
Down- Slams the ground, burying opponents.
Up- A giant leap that causes Ganon to fly off-screen before slamming back down with a shockwave. [/collapse]
I feel this would be a perfect combination of swordplay, brute force attacks with his bare hands (and feet), and use of his magical prowess. It fits his character far better than Falcondorf.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Really, most detractors are contradictory.

Some say Ridley is too big. If they support K.Rool, who is literally twice the size of Donkey Kong, they are a hypocrite.

Take Shokio for example. Claims that Dragons have to be big, and that Bowser can be small because...he's a turtle? WHAT?! What a terrible argument. Anybody who takes that seriously is just not thinking clearly. How about Game of Thrones? There's a tiny dragon in there. It's small because it's a baby? Doesn't matter. It's a dragon, and it isn't big.

If it was a general understanding that all dragons needed to be big at all times, then why are Charizard, Salamence, Dragonite...etc..., hardly that large compared to the human characters?

Sheesh. Some Smash fans are idiots. If you're going to make an argument, actually make sense while doing so.

We need to take this, copy it, and plaster it on pretty much every request/discussion video on youtube regarding Smash Bros...ever.

Perhaps people don't literally mean Shulk's sword capabilities are generic when they call him "just another swordsman," but are rather dismissive of his character or personality, which falls in line with that of your typical blonde JRPG protagonist for the most part. I imagine that's all the more easy when he was lumped in alongside Isaac and Saki as a part of some fan-made trio back in the day (before people stopped promoting the other two for "muh relevance" reasons).

Well, when you think about it, having a personality doesn't really matter much in Smash Bros. Mega Man is literally the most stone-faced character ever and yet he was the most likely newcomer. Not to mention nobody really talks in battle.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I understand, it's kind of how I compare Takamaru to Mitsurugi and Bishamon...less Bishamon.

I'd imagine Takamaru being inspired by characters from the Samurai Shodown series. Like Tachibana Ukyo for example.

Also relating to this, but i'd imagine Zoroark being conceptually similar to Kurokouchi Yumeji.

 

[?????????????]

Really, most detractors are contradictory.

Some say Ridley is too big. If they support K.Rool, who is literally twice the size of Donkey Kong, they are a hypocrite.

Take Shokio for example. Claims that Dragons have to be big, and that Bowser can be small because...he's a turtle? WHAT?! What a terrible argument. Anybody who takes that seriously is just not thinking clearly. How about Game of Thrones? There's a tiny dragon in there. It's small because it's a baby? Doesn't matter. It's a dragon, and it isn't big.

If it was a general understanding that all dragons needed to be big at all times, then why are Charizard, Salamence, Dragonite...etc..., hardly that large compared to the human characters?

Sheesh. Some Smash fans are idiots. If you're going to make an argument, actually make sense while doing so.

Dude, I have made all of these arguments in my videos, and people still comment that Ridley is too big, and that Shokio's argument is superior to mine.

...Most people who actually watch my videos agree with me on Ridley, though.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Dude, I have made all of these arguments in my videos, and people still comment that Ridley is too big, and that Shokio's argument is superior to mine.

...Most people who actually watch my videos agree with me, though.

Welcome to my world!

I'd imagine Takamaru being inspired by characters from the Samurai Shodown series. Like Tachibana Ukyo for example.

Also relating to this, but i'd imagine Zoroark being conceptually similar to Kurokouchi Yumeji.

I could see a few similarities between Zoroark and Kurokouchi conceptually. I also take a heavy conception from Kilik when it comes to Krystal. A character like Pac-Man however is harder to find a conceptual character for however, so I basically went off of randomness when it came to him.

 

[?????????????]

I'd imagine Takamaru being inspired by characters from the Samurai Shodown series. Like Tachibana Ukyo for example.

I thought Takamaru would be more like Haohmaru than Tachibana. Or maybe even Genjuro?

 

[BKupa666]

Well, when you think about it, having a personality doesn't really matter much in Smash Bros. Mega Man is literally the most stone-faced character ever and yet he was the most likely newcomer. Not to mention nobody really talks in battle.

Personality doesn't matter once you're playable in Smash, but during the request phase, it can be tough to stand out when your personality isn't that of a ruthless DRAGON (DRA-GON), or a bat**** cosplaying reptile, or the underdog of all underdogs, or a snarky goddess. I think Shulk's moderate prowess thus far has largely been thanks to his series and his sword, rather than who he himself is, per se.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Perhaps people don't literally mean Shulk's sword capabilities are generic when they call him "just another swordsman," but are rather dismissive of his character or personality, which falls in line with that of your typical blonde JRPG protagonist for the most part. I imagine that's all the more easy when he was lumped in alongside Isaac and Saki as a part of some fan-made trio back in the day (before people stopped promoting the other two for "muh relevance" reasons).

The irony of course is that Shulk is more developed then a lot of Nintendo protagonists, which isn't surprising considering titles developed by Monolith Soft tend to put more emphasis on story. Though I wouldn't exactly call him generic, considering he's not a hot blooded idiot like a large portion of the RPG protagonists tend to be.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Shokio is just a joke in general.

He makes all of his terrible points, but then goes and says that the Melee intro size could work. Then why even bother making the argument that he can't work? Then he uses fan made hacks of Ridley in Brawl. Of COURSE it isn't going to look good. It was a bad FAN MADE RIDLEY HACK. That's like saying that because Roy and Mewtwo were in Project M, it reflects their movesets or chances for Wii U and 3DS.

Not to mention, something being too big to be in something is completely subjective. Ridley might be too big to Shokio, but that doesn't mean he IS too big. However, based on experience with detractors, they will act as if it is fact. But it always boils down to, " I don't think it would do Ridley justice" which is just opinion. Not fact. So the argument that he is too big isn't an argument. It's an opinion that would get thrown out in a court trial because your average joe can't just make that mean something. Now, if Sakurai himself came out and said that Ridley is too big, then that would be the equivalent of an Expert Witness giving his opinion.

The facts are that characters in ANY video game can be resized. It happens to characters all the time. Just because people really like a character, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen to Ridley. It can happen. It all just depends on what Sakurai thinks.

 

[BKupa666]

Now, if Sakurai himself came out and said that Ridley is too big, then that would be the equivalent of an Expert Witness giving his opinion.

Not even. If Sakurai's arm falls off or something to that effect that results in him being replaced, the next guy in line could easily have a different opinion or different priorities for characters. So long as there's a single potential developer out there that could make Ridley work in Smash, the character is not inherently TOOBIG.

 

[?????????????]

As long as Honey Queen is allowed to be in Mario Kart, Ridley is not too big to be in SSB.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The irony of course is that Shulk is more developed then a lot of Nintendo protagonists, which isn't surprising considering titles developed by Monolith Soft tend to put more emphasis on story. Though I wouldn't exactly call him generic, considering he's not a hot blooded idiot like a large portion of the RPG protagonists tend to be.

Pretty much this. As a character, Shulk is a pretty level headed character who, in a way, fights for his friends just like Ike.

Spoiler

He loses his best friend (girlfriend?) early on in the story, and seeks vengeance on the Mechon.

Later on, he realizes that he can relax his wanting of vengeance, and seeks to bring down the being that ruined everything for everyone, and attempted to show the Homs AND the Mechon why we can't have nice things.

Shulk is actually a pretty cool character.

@ ????????????? I am truly sorry if I spoiled that for you. I have corrected my mistake. However, mark my words, there is far more to know about the story. It's really great!

 

[False Sense]

Dude, I have made all of these arguments in my videos, and people still comment that Ridley is too big, and that Shokio's argument is superior to mine.

...Most people who actually watch my videos agree with me on Ridley, though.

If I recall, it was actually your videos discussing Ridley as a character that made me think of him as a workable character, rather than as a giant boss.

I feel blessed knowing that I didn't watch Shokio's arguments first and get brainwashed by his incompetence as a debater.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Shokio is just a joke in general.

He makes all of his terrible points, but then goes and says that the Melee intro size could work. Then why even bother making the argument that he can't work? Then he uses fan made hacks of Ridley in Brawl. Of COURSE it isn't going to look good. It was a bad FAN MADE RIDLEY HACK. That's like saying that because Roy and Mewtwo were in Project M, it reflects their movesets or chances for Wii U and 3DS.

Not to mention, something being too big to be in something is completely subjective. Ridley might be too big to Shokio, but that doesn't mean he IS too big. However, based on experience with detractors, they will act as if it is fact. But it always boils down to, " I don't think it would do Ridley justice" which is just opinion. Not fact. So the argument that he is too big isn't an argument. It's an opinion that would get thrown out in a court trial because your average joe can't just make that mean something. Now, if Sakurai himself came out and said that Ridley is too big, then that would be the equivalent of an Expert Witness giving his opinion.

The facts are that characters in ANY video game can be resized. It happens to characters all the time. Just because people really like a character, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen to Ridley. It can happen. It all just depends on what Sakurai thinks.

The thing that I think causes this "Too big" talk the most is that overall, people just aren't used to seeing Ridley said size. Thanks to the expanding Mario Bros franchise, we've seen the giant Bowser be all over the place, and we've come to accept the fact that he can be small thanks to many years being given to let us feel this way. However, if we were to get a smaller Ridley, it'd probably be thought of as odd for a bit, but after a bit of time we'd come to accept it. Hell, I'm sure before K.Rool was made playable in Sluggers and Barrel Blast that he was deemed too large as well, but we were given a chance to adapt to change and we did nicely. The only problem is that Metroid doesn't have any opportunity to give us this chance since it's a franchise that has almost no spin-offs, aside from Metroid Prime Pinball (Which I got LAUGHED AT for even mentioning) where Ridley's smaller than usual.

People just need to be optimistic and give the idea a chance...

 

[JamesDNaux]

So no one likes Ganondorf then? I'd main him like crazy if he had that moveset.

With Bowser and Pit getting new moves, I'm really hopeful that Ganondorf will finally play like Ganondorf. Or Sakurai could just say "**** you" to everyone.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I thought Takamaru would be more like Haohmaru than Tachibana. Or maybe even Genjuro?

Well, like I said, general characters from Samurai Shodown.

So, yeah, more like a hybrid of different ideas. Considering the flexibility the character sports to begin with, it shouldn't be an issue. My favorite version to point out is a character that is designed with a flow mechanic, lightning fast attacks that sync into each other for maximum combo capabilities.

 

[Shorts]

I do like to compare potential newcomers to other fighting game characters, to form a basis. Hence why I compared Little Mac to Dudley and Balrog and Ridley to Sentinel.

I'd rather have a smaller Ridley who plays like Firebrand. Firebrand is the reason I think Ridley could be cool to play as. Also if we're talking about Ragna, I'd love to see a character play like Makoto.

 

[?????????????]

@ ????????????? I am truly sorry if I spoiled that for you. I have corrected my mistake. However, mark my words, there is far more to know about the story. It's really great!

Y'know what? I actually have no idea why I cared, cause I already knew all that. It was just an instinctive response.
Heh heh?

 

[Autumn ♫]

As a person who originated from Youtube Smash Speculation, I still have no idea how I was lucky enough to be in the small smart group from the very start, and always argued towards Ridley not being too big, but with that said, I'm glad I did. No telling what would have happened if I was part of Shokio's group of too bigots.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Also if we're talking about Ragna, I'd love to see a character play like Makoto.

I second this, Makoto Nanaya is awesome! Although her drive attack, power bar on certain attacks and overall punching style could be drawn to be a contrast to Little Mac.

Actually, now that I think about it, her drive attack being a dashing punch with heavy power, an Uppercut, a counter attack and mid-air dashes...I think Little Mac actually does borrow conceptually from Makoto Nanaya.