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Thirdkoopa

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Chrom can definitely be unique but it depends on how he's done. If you said Rosalina or Luma on their own that's one thing but combined they add a lot

Talking move changing, only things I'd really consider that far are final smashes and b moves

Finally, people really undermine Robin/The Avatar's chances for no particular reason. Just figured I'd say that.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Welp, looks like Oppo & Shorts said what I wanted to say.
People immediately dismissed Rosalina and outright assumed she would be a Semi or full on clone of Peach before she was revealed, and look what happened there. I find it kinda funny you're doing the same thing only with Chrom.
That's because those people were being naive.

Rosalina was never capable of becoming a semi-clone of Peach. She was unable to use Parasol, Vegetables, or Sports gear.

Chrom on the other hand can replicate literally everything that Marth can do.

I wouldn't use other people being wrong as a basis to say that I might be wrong. When I did not share the same naive assumptions that they did.
 

pikachugamer21

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Only if there was a desire to piss off people, maybe.

(Being serious here considering this unstable fanbase)
No matter what Fire emblem is in this game someone is gonna get upset over it so might as well reveal it and get it over with
 

Hotfeet444

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Chrom can definitely be unique but it depends on how he's done. If you said Rosalina or Luma on their own that's one thing but combined they add a lot

Talking move changing, only things I'd really consider that far are final smashes and b moves

Finally, people really undermine Robin/The Avatar's chances for no particular reason. Just figured I'd say that.
I don't undermine his chances, in fact he's my overall preferred choice (Actually it's Tiki and I find her a better choice than any of them as she's got consistency, recency AND Uniqueness. :p) but I can see Chrom being done well and unique, just like I can see the same being done for Roy.
 
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TheLastJinjo

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Saturn, if you watched competitive videos of Diddy, he is very reliant on his bananas, without them he wouldn't be as good as he was.
His move set does not revolve around banana peels. That's just something competitive people take advantage of. Seriously what are you talking about? You're saying that because people take advantage of one ability that it is the same thing as taking something as insignificant as it and making every move in the move set revolve around it.

Last time I checked, Diddy's Rocket Barrel and Peanut Popgun did not revolve around his banana peels

@ Opossum Opossum : I'd seriously like you to explain this.
 
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Opossum

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Except that she has control over Lumas.


...The fact that Wii Fit Trainer does yoga didn't suggest that she would do yoga if fighting as a playable character???
Be real here, Saturn. Nothing suggested that Rosalina would use Lumas as a puppet fighter. No one saw that style coming. And yoga's not meant to be weaponized. If ANYONE brought up Wii Fit Trainer prior to her reveal, it'd be taken as a joke.

Then there's your proof.

Still under Roy.
And still way above the Avatar's placement. You're making it sound like he's below every other Fire Emblem character in existence. He's not.

But, why is Chrom now important all of the sudden? Why is he suddenly more important than other characters?
Main character of a critically acclaimed Fire Emblem game. Plus, IS definitely thinks he's important. After all, it's not the Avatar they're advertising everywhere: they're advertising Chrom and Lucina. Calling Chrom unimportant shouldn't be a thing.

Because it's actually important to Fire Emblem. WAY more than Chrom is.
Two out of thirteen games isn't "extremely important to the series."


Again, what does this have to do with Sakurai giving characters insignificant source material?
Read what I quoted.

I'm sorry..............what are you talking about!? One move = an entire playstyle???
Yes, an entire playstyle. Have you seen any competitive Diddy Kong players? They rely on the banana more than anything else.
 

Baskerville

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I could just quote what I already said to you Saturn.
Yes, that is Diddy's most successful tool and he is entirely reliant on it, without the bananas he wouldn't be a top tier character. However, that doesn't mean his ENTIRE move-set was BASED around a banana. There is a difference.
I think you're mixing up playstyle with moveset.
 

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I could just quote what I already said to you Saturn.

I think you're mixing up playstyle with moveset.
I suppose I am to an extent as I am an adamant believer that every character has tools and ignoring them is fallacious. That being said, Diddy's entire play-style doesn't revolve around one move, as Saturn mentioned, you still need the peanut pop gun to adequately zone and you still rely on his KO moves. His banana is how he controls the stage, which by extension is how he plays, but it obviously isn't the only thing he does. If his ENTIRE play-style revolved around the banana, he would throw out his bananas and only use that move. He doesn't.
 

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This is getting painful to deal with now, can we please change the subject?

Oh, I got one, Mother Brain, although being an assist trophy, how would you turn her into a playable character?
 

TheLastJinjo

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Be real here, Saturn. Nothing suggested that Rosalina would use Lumas as a puppet fighter.
Several things suggested it. Please don't lie to prove your point.

No one saw that style coming.
That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And yoga's not meant to be weaponized.
Mr. Game & Watch's abilities weren't meant to be weaponized. Just because YOU can't see things doesn't mean you can say "Well, WE thought this wouldn't happen and it did. So the same will probably apply for YOU!"

If ANYONE brought up Wii Fit Trainer prior to her reveal, it'd be taken as a joke.
Maybe to you people yes. I would assume that given how easily people on this site dismiss characters. I never thought of Wii Fit Trainer, but believe it or not I would have been on board with the move set she has if suggested.

Maybe not the character, but I'd be on board with it just as much as I would be with Duck Hunt Dog's suggested move set.

Main character of a critically acclaimed Fire Emblem game.
Many of them are critically acclaimed.

Plus, IS definitely thinks he's important.
Everytime a new Fire Emblem game comes out they think the star of that game is important,

After all, it's not the Avatar they're advertising everywhere: they're advertising Chrom and Lucina. Calling Chrom unimportant shouldn't be a thing.
Like I said in the last reply...

(And why do you seem to think it's all about advertising?)

Two out of thirteen games isn't "extremely important to the series."
More than 1/13. And I said several times that Sakurai would obviously see this as important if it is going to be in future installments. Which it most likely is. And might I say 2/13 games makes it more important than most contenders. Who are 1/13 games.


Yes, an entire playstyle. Have you seen any competitive Diddy Kong players? They rely on the banana more than anything else.
And yet his other moves do not compliment that move. It is simply one move that competitive people take advantage of. It has no comparison to your proposal of Chrom using a lance for a majority of his moves.

You're comparing a competitive play style to a move set.
 
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Opossum

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This is getting painful to deal with now, can we please change the subject?

Oh, I got one, Mother Brain, although being an assist trophy, how would you turn her into a playable character?
Well, she has a form with legs. So I'd probably use that form.
 

Kenith

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I suppose I am to an extent as I am an adamant believer that every character has tools and ignoring them is fallacious. That being said, Diddy's entire play-style doesn't revolve around one move, as Saturn mentioned, you still need the peanut pop gun to adequately zone and you still rely on his KO moves. His banana is how he controls the stage, which by extension is how he plays, but it obviously isn't the only thing he does. If his ENTIRE play-style revolved around the banana, he would throw out his bananas and only use that move. He doesn't.
Diddy's moveset is bananas. Lol.

I don't undermine his chances, in fact he's my overall preferred choice (Actually it's Tiki and I find her a better choice than any of them as she's got consistency, recency AND Uniqueness. :p) but I can see Chrom being done well and unique, just like I can see the same being done for Roy.
How would Tiki work?
 

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Well, she has a form with legs. So I'd probably use that form.
Really? I'd take its Zero Mission form, shrink the size a bit, put it in a mobile command base that can command different tendrils, tourian turrets and more to battle. Think something similar to this guy:

I'm actually designing a moveset for it...it's kind of fun to design to be honest. :p

How would Tiki work?
Simple, would command Dragon powers through the means of her Dragonstone spirit, which will appear behind her in an ethereal form to shoot out crystalized blasts, using the Book of Naga, transforming into a dragon for a recovery, and of course a final smash of calling upon Naga herself to cleanse the battlefield. Her standard attacks could be kicks infused with dragonstone magic, and even the dragon spirit attacking by the use of wing attacks and tail attacks.
 
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Morbi

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Diddy's moveset is bananas. Lol.



How would Tiki work?
I believe the operative term here is "entire." One could assert that his competitive move-set is predominantly banana based; however, it isn't his entire move-set. Again, without his peanut pop-gun and knock out moves, he would not even have a play-style. There are more play-styles to a character than just the competitive interpretation. I would love to see a FFA Diddy Kong in casuals using banana peels. I would love to see a Diddy Kong use his "entire play-style" in a coin match. The most prevalent play-style is not the objective play-style.
 

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Really? I'd take its Zero Mission form, shrink the size a bit, put it in a mobile command base that can command different tendrils, tourian turrets and more to battle. Think something similar to this gu
I'm actually designing a moveset for it...it's kind of fun to design to be honest. :p



Simple, would command Dragon powers through the means of her Dragonstone spirit, which will appear behind her in an ethereal form to shoot out crystalized blasts, using the Book of Naga, transforming into a dragon for a recovery, and of course a final smash of calling upon Naga herself to cleanse the battlefield. Her standard attacks could be kicks infused with dragonstone magic, and even the dragon spirit attacking by the use of wing attacks and tail attacks.
I would have to see it to comprehend it.
 

Opossum

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Several things suggested it. Please don't lie to prove your point.
Watch your mouth, Saturn. Don't go around calling people liars without found proof. Look around. No one thought that Rosalina would use a puppeteering playstyle.


That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Mr. Game & Watch's abilities weren't meant to be weaponized.
You're proving my point. Sakurai could easily come up for something that the hive-mind doesn't think of immediately.

Maybe to you people yes. I would assume that given how easily people on this site dismiss characters. I never thought of Wii Fit Trainer, but believe it or not I would have been on board with the move set she has if suggested.
No one did. Not just "we people." I would have enjoyed the moveset, as you said you would, but honestly, no one would have thought it was likely.

Maybe not the character, but I'd be on board with it just as much as I would be with Duck Hunt Dog's suggested move set.
And you're not on board for Chrom because...?



Many of them are critically acclaimed.


Everytime a new Fire Emblem game comes out they think the star of that game is important,


Like I said in the last reply...

(And why do you seem to think it's all about advertising?)
Recency partly affects RPG character selection. Obviously you aren't going to choose a fighter from, let's say, Sacred Stones over Awakening. I never said it's all about advertising, but looking at the past, especially Ike's selection, it does play a part. Sakurai went to IS for suggestions, and they picked Ike. If he did that again, why would they pick anyone but Chrom, the one they've been pushing for?



More than 1/13. And I said several times that Sakurai would obviously see this as important if it is going to be in future installments. Which it most likely is. And might I say 2/13 games makes it more important than most contenders. Who are 1/13 games.
You're making assumptions for the future of Fire Emblem. That shouldn't be taken into account, as it's not confirmed. I'm saying the concept of an avatar has been in two Fire Emblems. The Awakening one's been in one. It's not over all important to the series.

And yet his other moves do not compliment that move. It is simply one move that competitive people take advantage of. It has no comparison to your proposal of Chrom using a lance for a majority of his moves.

You're comparing a competitive play style to a move set.
The playstyle comes from the moveset. That much is obvious. With the banana being a useful and integral aspect of Diddy in Smash, yet it's not canon to his character. Chrom at least uses the lance in his game. It is by no means too large of a stretch for him to be built around weapon switching since he's notable for doing that in-game.
EVERY - MOVESET - IS - LEMONS!!!

OTHERWISE KNOWN AS EMIL!!!!!
Please stay on topic.
 

Gunla

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Premium is blue? This will take some getting used to...
Really? I'd take its Zero Mission form, shrink the size a bit, put it in a mobile command base that can command different tendrils, tourian turrets and more to battle. Think something similar to this guy:

I'm actually designing a moveset for it...it's kind of fun to design to be honest. :p
How you are managing to make a MODOK moveset surprises me.
 

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Well, here it is...Mother Brain's moveset. How do you take an AI like Mother Brain and make it playable? Like this! :p




Mother Brain:
Appearance: Designed after Super Metroid size but Zero-mission look, Mother Brain is in a glass case with an opening panel on the front to allow Mother Brain to launch eye blasts. Her glass case is design with anti-grav hovering and many hidden weapons, like turrets and tentacles, which is seen being controlled in the Manga.



Standard A combo: Eye Spark (x1, 7% total, small range blast of energy from the eye)

Side + A: Tourian Turret (Launches out a total of three short-range energy blasts from summoned Tourian turrent, arched downward. 12% total)

Up + A: Explosive Burst (Summons a ground turret that explodes, knocking the opponent upward, does not work well against airborne characters and is better at knocking the opponent off the ground, 12%)

Down + A: Commanding swipe (Two clawed-tendrils extend from the back of the hover case and swing along the ground in an x-like pattern, going back into the case when the attack finishes, 10%)
Dash Attack: Booster System (Bursts ahead slightly in a burst of fire, dealing damage to any opponent in the way, 10%)



Aerial Attacks:
Neutral A: Shield Reinforcement (Case will be surrounded momentarily by a glowing blue shield with spikes, dealing damage to opponents around it, 13%)

Forward + A: Brain Pulse (Will release a burst of energy in front of self, damaging opponents in front of it. 13%)

Up + A: Cross Shooter (Two small turrets appear above it, shooting in a cross pattern to damage opponents above it, shoots two shots per turret, 12% total)

Back + A: AI Breaker (Tendrils extend from the back of the case, curling around and dealing a piercing strike to an opponent behind Mother Brain, 14%)

Down + A: Afterburner (Hover jets on the bottom of the case release a burst of fiery plasma energy, being able to meteor smash the opponent. 13%)



Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash: Brain Blast (Charges up energy within its body and releases, causing a small plasma explosion in front of it, doing more damage depending on how close the opponent is to the initial explosion, 21-27%)


Up Smash: Nervous System (Top of the case will recede as it extends its cybernetic spikes extend, dealing heavy shock damage to an opponent caught in the attack. 28% total)



Down Smash: Integration (Will fall to the ground, tendril cords going through the ground to attack opponents on both sides of Mother Brain. 25%)



Grab/Throws:
Grab: Grabs with twin tendrils

Pummel: Shoots once with Tourian Turret (4%)

Front Throw: Knocks the opponent away with a burst of energy from its eye (12%)

Up Throw: Shoots the opponent with Tourian turrets then tosses them upwards (10%)

Down Throw: Will throw the opponent on the ground then drop an explosive turret on top of them. 10%)

Back Throw: Will spin the opponent around and throw them behind it. (10%)



Special Moves:
Standard B: Laser Brain



A charge special, will charge up a blast of energy inside its eye then release a large fireball projectile almost similar to Samus’ charge shot, but larger in size but slower in speed, 30% max



Side + B: Membrane Wall



Will summon a Membrane wall in front of it similar to the walls that have to be destroyed in Tourian on the final dash to fight Mother Brain, can take up to a total of 3 different attacks, both physical and special, to help cover Mother Brain’s advance on opponents.


Up + B: Hover System



The hover system of Mother Brain’s mobile command base will kick in, allowing her to do a large boost up into the air, Mother Brain then going into a helpless state once the attack ends. Will rapidly damage opponents caught in the way. 20% total



Down + B: Turret Set



Will set down a turret to shoot disc-like projectiles, these projectiles doing minimal damage but can stun opponents. Turrets can only take 15% of damage before they’re destroyed. 5% per projectile



Final Smash: Chozo Upgrade



The command base will break apart and Mother Brain will become Dino Brain, being able to attack with Stomp attacks, poisonous breath attacks, claw attacks, and even more powerful laser brain attack. Lasts for a few seconds before Mother Brain goes back to normal. 15% per stomp attack, 20% per poisonous breath attack, 10% per claw attack, 40% for Laser Brain attack.
 
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pikachugamer21

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Well, here it is...Mother Brain's moveset. How do you take an AI like Mother Brain and make it playable? Like this! :p




Mother Brain:
Appearance: Designed after Super Metroid size but Zero-mission look, Mother Brain is in a glass case with an opening panel on the front to allow Mother Brain to launch eye blasts. Her glass case is design with anti-grav hovering and many hidden weapons, like turrets and tentacles, which is seen being controlled in the Manga.



Standard A combo: Eye Spark (x1, 7% total, small range blast of energy from the eye)

Side + A: Tourian Turret (Launches out a total of short-range energy blasts from summoned Tourian turrent, arched downward. 12% total)

Up + A: Explosive Burst (Summons a ground turret that explodes, knocking the opponent upward, does not work well against airborne characters and is better at knocking the opponent off the ground, 12%)

Down + A: Commanding swipe (Two clawed-tendrils extend from the back of the hover case and swing along the ground in an x-like pattern, going back into the case when the attack finishes, 10%)
Dash Attack: Booster System (Bursts ahead slightly in a burst of fire, dealing damage to any opponent in the way, 10%)



Aerial Attacks:
Neutral A: Shield Reinforcement (Case will be surrounded momentarily by a glowing blue shield with spikes, dealing damage to opponents around it, 13%)

Forward + A: Brain Pulse (Will release a burst of energy in front of self, damaging opponents in front of it. 13%)

Up + A: Cross Shooter (Two small turrets appear above it, shooting in a cross pattern to damage opponents above it, shoots two shots per turret, 12% total)

Back + A: AI Breaker (Tendrils extend from the back of the case, curling around and dealing a piercing strike to an opponent behind Mother Brain, 14%)

Down + A: Afterburner (Hover jets on the bottom of the case release a burst of fiery plasma energy, being able to meteor smash the opponent. 13%)



Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash: Brain Blast (Charges up energy within its body and releases, causing a small plasma explosion in front of it, doing more damage depending on how close the opponent is to the initial explosion, 21-27%)


Up Smash: Nervous System (Top of the case will recede as it extends its cybernetic spikes extend, dealing heavy shock damage to an opponent caught in the attack. 28% total)



Down Smash: Integration (Will fall to the ground, tendril cords going through the ground to attack opponents on both sides of Mother Brain. 25%)



Grab/Throws:
Grab: Grabs with twin tendrils

Pummel: Shoots once with Tourian Turret (4%)

Front Throw: Knocks the opponent away with a burst of energy from its eye (12%)

Up Throw: Shoots the opponent with Tourian turrets then tosses them upwards (10%)

Down Throw: Will throw the opponent on the ground then drop an explosive turret on top of them. 10%)

Back Throw: Will spin the opponent around and throw them behind it. (10%)



Special Moves:
Standard B: Laser Brain



A charge special, will charge up a blast of energy inside its eye then release a large fireball projectile almost similar to Samus’ charge shot, but larger in size but slower in speed, 30% max



Side + B: Membrane Wall



Will summon a Membrane wall in front of it similar to the walls that have to be destroyed in Tourian on the final dash to fight Mother Brain, can take up to a total of 3 different attacks, both physical and special, to help cover Mother Brain’s advance on opponents.


Up + B: Hover System



The hover system of Mother Brain’s mobile command base will kick in, allowing her to do a large boost up into the air, Mother Brain then going into a helpless state once the attack ends. Will rapidly damage opponents caught in the way. 20% total



Down + B: Turret Set



Will set down a turret to shoot disc-like projectiles, these projectiles doing minimal damage but can stun opponents. Turrets can only take 15% of damage before they’re destroyed. 5% per projectile



Final Smash: Chozo Upgrade



The command base will break apart and Mother Brain will become Dino Brain, being able to attack with Stomp attacks, poisonous breath attacks, claw attacks, and even more powerful laser brain attack. Lasts for a few seconds before Mother Brain goes back to normal. 15% per stomp attack, 20% per poisonous breath attack, 10% per claw attack, 40% for Laser Brain attack.
nicely
 

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any character can have a good moveset if people try hard enough, look at phoenix wright in UMvC3
 

Thirdkoopa

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Any character can, but what Saturn is saying will happen with Chrom is that he'll use his swords - not eggs and bacon.

...on the flip side just because he's using his sword doesn't mean anything in either direction. We had Ike. Guess what? Completely unique from Marth. Chrom's not even the one we should be egging as a possible clone - that'd be Lucina.
 

False Sense

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So, Robin discussion?
Well, we sort of just came from something akin to a Robin discussion. Although that was more Chrom hate than discussion on Robin him/herself...

As Morbid said, I believe Robin would be the best character choice for a new Fire Emblem character. Do I think he/she's the most likely? Probably not, I would say Chrom has a better shot. However, I do think Robin has a fair shot at Smash, being a great addition to what is currently a somewhat dull roster of Fire Emblem characters, and fits in perfectly with Sakurai's criteria of choosing unique characters for the roster.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Watch your mouth, Saturn. Don't go around calling people liars without found proof.
Opossum that is WHY I say you are lying. You are not using found proof.

No one thought that Rosalina would use a puppeteering playstyle.
This is such a terrible argument. Because nobody thought of it, it was never likely?

You're proving my point. Sakurai could easily come up for something that the hive-mind doesn't think of immediately.
Except what he made for Wii Fit Trainer wasn't hive minded. The issue is Smash fans are hive minded. If you dug through all the source material for Wii Fit Trainer you would have come up with this because it's in plain sight. Nobody just ever took the oppurtunity.

Saying that something nobody thought was likely would happen is not a basis to say that Chrom will get this nonsensical move set (that everyone thinks is likely for some reason by the way).

Are you saying I could suggest a non clone move set for Toon Zelda or Ninten and deem it plausible because nobody else thought of it?


And you're not on board for Chrom because...?
Because there is no non semi-clone move set for him that makes sense. Unlike Duck Hunt Dog and Wii Fit Trainer.


Recency partly affects RPG character selection.
A citation for that is needed. Lucas, Roy, and Ike have all been given reasons for inclusion, none of which were recency.

I could say that having a red hat partly affects character inclusion only because coincidentally 4 characters have red hats. But, I'd need an actual source to prove that's WHY those red hatted characters were included.

Obviously you aren't going to choose a fighter from, let's say, Sacred Stones over Awakening. I never said it's all about advertising, but looking at the past
Once again, you need a citation. Sakurai didn't know who to add, but he chose Ike because of popularity. He could have easily ended up picking Lyn


especially Ike's selection, it does play a part.
Sakurai went to IS for suggestions, and they picked Ike. If he did that again, why would they pick anyone but Chrom, the one they've been pushing for?
  1. Because there are 2 main characters in Awakening. One which is arguably more important to the plot and is clearly more unique
  2. Why is what IS suggests the final deciding factor all of the sudden? They SUGGEST characters and Sakurai chooses. What if the main character of Awakening was Ike's identical twin brother? Would Sakurai mindlessly pick him because he's the face of awakening despite that he's just a second Ike? You give Sakurai less credit than he deserves to assume he'd not take into account that a character should probably bring something different to the game play. As much as possible.




You're making assumptions for the future of Fire Emblem. That shouldn't be taken into account.
That's your opinion. I'm pretty sure Sakurai takes the future into account somewhat. And even if it wasn't in the future, it was in 2 games. So it's clearly more important than Chrom.

I'm saying the concept of an avatar has been in two Fire Emblems. The Awakening one's been in one. It's not over all important to the series.
Yet you argue that Chrom is? Because he was in one which is teh must resint? Then shouldn't this make the Avatar even more important considering he is both that AND in 2 games.


The playstyle comes from the moveset. That much is obvious. With the banana being a useful and integral aspect of Diddy in Smash, yet it's not canon to his character. Chrom at least uses the lance in his game. It is by no means too large of a stretch for him to be built around weapon switching since he's notable for doing that in-game.
Not really. And certainly not enough to be more than one move.

But, you don't seem to want to look at it from any other perspective so I think I'm done arguing this.
 
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Morbi

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Jun 21, 2013
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Speculation God, GOML
Also, as a small point, Robin would be able to be a different gender like WFT and probably Villager out of prefer ability; not a point in his/her favor, but hey, nothing counts against the option being there.
I honestly view it as an aspect of inclusion, her inclusion would advocate aesthetic diversity to a great extent. We would receive our first female lord, she isn't a blue haired lord, and she has the option to be a male character. Her pallet swaps would most likely also alter her appearance significantly. You could actually change Robin's hair color without it being extremely awkward. So Sakurai may favor Robin just because of all the options available. She has a free alternate costume and he can actually drastically change the pallet swaps thus retaining a unique feel. Robin mains wouldn't grow tired of her appearance too often. It isn't the most prominent factor in her favor, but I would certainly assert that it is something favorable.
 
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