Character Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

"I don't really like Chrom"

That's all you had to say, you know.

Chrom is cool. Are you saying I hate King Boo because I'd argue against him? Do you hate Toad?

 

[Hotfeet444]

This is not improvising.

This could make Chrom unique.

Er, I think your picture comes from a site that doesn't allow hotlinking there pal.

That being said, I already designed Chrom to be unique, I've also designed Roy to be unique, these characters being made unique is far from impossible while staying true to the franchise.

 

[Morbi]

"I don't really like Chrom"

That's all you had to say, you know.

To be fair, I am certain that Saturn doesn't have anything against Chrom. He just doesn't like what the character offers in comparison to other feasible choices.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Er, I think your picture comes from a site that doesn't allow hotlinking there pal.

That being said, I already designed Chrom to be unique, I've also designed Roy to be unique, these characters being made unique is far from impossible while staying true to the franchise.

It was a Chrom + Lucina picture.

 

[Opossum]

I don't think it makes a difference if you're a veteran or a newcomer. Like at all. It's still the same thing.

Especially if you're implying that being a newcomer makes you less likely to be a semi-clone. That is simply not true.

Sakurai was on the record during pre-Brawl about not wanting to alienate people who liked veteran playstyles by radically changing them, so yes, it matters.

 

[Hotfeet444]

It was a Chrom + Lucina picture.

Oh...well, just make that Chrom's final Smash. A duo final smash would be showing off a strong new mechanic Awakening introduces without having to feed off of it for everything. In short...picture something like this...

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I think Chrom as a stance charcter would work out very well or as a said on Gamefaqs make him like Captain Commando from MVC2..

 

[Kenith]

Okay, normally it would not bother me, but literally no one acknowledged what I said...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Couldn't the same be said for Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer?

Um, no. They had PLENTY to work from. That should be obvious.

At least Chrom has more appeal as a Smash character, going by popularity polls. I have no doubt in my mind that Sakurai could make Chrom unique.

Sakurai can make anybody unique. That is NOT a good enough basis to say he will. And what is significant about Chrom's requests? It's low compared to other FE contenders.

Chrom's not unimportant. He's Awakening's main character, alongside Robin.

So Eirika is important? She's Sacred Stone's main character.

Avatars have only been in two Fire Emblem games thus far. That's definitely not a "staple." And even then, Robin himself wouldn't be the staple, just the archetype.

I don't recall Avatars being in other games. And it's pretty safe to say they will continue to appear in future Fire Emblem games. That is not a concept they are just gonna get rid of. And who cares if it wouldn't be the same as Robin. Robin is still a tactician/avatar

Requests definitely matter, and Chrom is continuously in the Top 10 when it comes to them.

Uh, no. But, this guy is

Sakurai was on the record during pre-Brawl about not wanting to alienate people who liked veteran playstyles by radically changing them, so yes, it matters.

What does that have to do with making it okay to have something hardly notable at all into part of an entire move set of someone who would easily just be made a semi-clone.

And I sure hope you're not implying this is why Falco isn't his own unique character.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

What are the Chances of someone from the Magical Series?
Y'know, Magical Vacation, Magical Starsign?

 

[BluePikmin11]

What are the Chances of someone from the Magical Series?
Y'know, Magical Vacation, Magical Starsign?

You mean those characters with the weird hats, very unlikely.

 

[Hotfeet444]

What are the Chances of someone from the Magical Series?
Y'know, Magical Vacation, Magical Starsign?

Probably low to non-existant at this point...however, one could be made as an assist trophy if we're lucky. However, the only real Japanese-only character that stands a real chance at this point is Takamaru.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I have no doubt in my mind that Sakurai could make Pichu unique...

 

[Morbi]

Okay, normally it would not bother me, but literally no one acknowledged what I said...

I agree with that sentiment, Lucina would probably be the more ideal stance swap character based on her disguise. Although, if I recall correctly, she used the same swordplay in both variations, didn't she? I don't feel as though it is entirely relevant, but it doesn't necessarily make her the MOST ideal.

Personally, I find Robin to be the best stance swap character. One stance for magic and another for swordplay. Overall, it is easy to assert that Robin contributes more aesthetically and in regards to move-set potential. Masked Lucina, while having the potential to be a stance swap, is better suited as an alternate costume in my honest opinion.

But yeah, she would probably pull of the stance swap better than Chrom.

 

[Baskerville]

Um, no. They had PLENTY to work from. That should be obvious.

As I said to you in the Social: Try and tell that to people before they we're revealed.

 

[Tepig2000]

You mean those characters with the weird hats, very unlikely.

At least they're more likely than Kawashima.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

People always defend what characters could have and ignore what they most likely will have. It's so naive.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

You mean those characters with the weird hats, very unlikely.

Ahh, What a shame, I've personally always had a small hope for Miss Madeline or Mokka.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

As I said to you in the Social: Try and tell that to people before they we're revealed.

Why do you keep using this like this is some sort of counter argument? You're saying that because I can easily recognize a character's potential which is so clearly obvious, that it doesn't matter because others can't?

So because other people can't realize how likely a character is, that they are automatically not likely?

 

[Opossum]

Um, no. They had PLENTY to work from. That should be obvious.

Here's what you said.

It's just hard to even imagine Sakurai looking at Chrom and thinking "Oh, yeah! This character would bring a lot to the game." I would imagine Sakurai would take somebody who is ALREADY promising. Not that he has to MAKE promising.

Nothing in Galaxy ever suggested a puppeteer moveset for Rosalina, nor in Wii Fit was it suggested that the Wii Fit Trainer could fight using yoga. They weren't exactly promising beforehand.

Sakurai can make anybody unique. That is NOT a good enough basis to say he will. And what is significant about Chrom's requests? It's low compared to other FE contenders.

Source? To my knowledge, he's only behind Roy as far as requests are concerned.

So Eirika is important? She's Sacred Stone's main character.

In a Smash context, no. Recency is obviously not the be-all end-all, but common sense dictates that Sakurai wouldn't choose Eirika at this point over Chrom.

I don't recall Avatars being in other games. And it's pretty safe to say they will continue to appear in future Fire Emblem games. That is not a concept they are just gonna get rid of. And who cares if it wouldn't be the same as Robin. Robin is still a tactician/avatar

Fire Emblem 12 had a character creation system. It wasn't as in depth as Awakening's, but it was still there. And why would that be a good thing? Just replace the character with a new version each time a new Smash comes out, because there's a new avatar? That's not exactly something I see happening.

Uh, no. But, this guy is

Yep, he actually is. Give Shortie's polls (the most recent and the past poll, especially) for proof. Last I checked, Chrom sat comfortably at Number 10.

What does that have to do with making it okay to have something hardly notable at all into part of an entire move set of someone who would easily just be made a semi-clone.

And I sure hope you're not implying this is why Falco isn't his own unique character.

You said it didn't matter if you were a newcomer or veteran. It's been said that Sakurai feels it matters. That was his basis behind not de-cloning Ganondorf in Brawl, if I remember correctly. Pretty sure people can back me up on this.

And may I add that Diddy's entire playstyle revolves around banana peels, something that he's canonically used less than Chrom has used a lance?

 

[BluePikmin11]

At least they're more likely than Kawashima.

Nah not really, at least the Brain Age series are more notable to Sakurai than the Magical Starsign franchise.

As I said to you in the Social: Try and tell that to people before they we're revealed.

It's just a simple case of not trying hard enough.

 

[Shorts]

You're saying the same thing. He doesn't like Chrom in Smash, which is the only Chrom that matters in this discussion. All the reasonings he stated that I quoted were more or less boosh.

1. Assuming what Sakurai thinks
2. Stating Chrom is insignificant
3.Saying he's not special/unique

The only argument which is worth looking at is the last one. Which he has a point, Chrom seems like a bland choice. But that's just it. Seems. It doesn't mean he will / would be. He was also going out of his way to dismiss any efforts for us to say "Well he could use this or that and it would help diversify him". Which, at the end of the day, he doesn't need a lance or Lucina to be unique. All it takes is different sword slashes than other characters. So, it seems like you don't really like Chrom.

 

[Tepig2000]

What are the Chances of someone from the Magical Series?
Y'know, Magical Vacation, Magical Starsign?

Really small, but there is an outside shot since Sakurai knows the series exists.

 

[pikachugamer21]

I have no doubt in my mind that Sakurai could make Pichu unique...

yeah cause it worked so well the first time

 

[Kenith]

You mean those characters with the weird hats, very unlikely.

Wow, and that's coming from a Harry supporter.

Why do you keep using this like this is some sort of counter argument? You're saying that because I can easily recognize a character's potential which is so clearly obvious, that it doesn't matter because others can't?

So because other people can't realize how likely a character is, that they are automatically not likely?

I agree with the argument that Lances would be unfitting for Chrom.

I would also like to point out Saturn can predict correctly;he guessed Mac's Specials.

 

[Morbi]

Nah not really, at least the Brain Age series are more notable to Sakurai than the Magical Starsign franchise.


It's just a simple case of not trying hard enough.

I don't think it is a simple case of not trying hard enough. Wii Fit Trainer fights using Yoga which is entirely antithetical to the purpose, intent and design of Yoga. Rosalina uses some form of mind control to force Lumas into battle. Most people, even if they were trying really hard, probably wouldn't have ended up with these quite strange move-sets.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

People always defend what characters could have and ignore what they most likely will have. It's so naive.

Iunno, I don't think anyone could predict "Ganondorf is a captain falcon clone"

 

[BluePikmin11]

Wow, and that's coming from a Harry supporter.

At least he's more notable for being from a failed Nintendo system.

I don't think it is a simple case of not trying hard enough. Wii Fit Trainer fights using Yoga which is entirely antithetical to the purpose, intent and design of Yoga. Rosalina uses some form of mind control to force Lumas into battle. Most people, even if they were trying really hard, probably wouldn't have ended up with these quite strange move-sets.

Few of her moves were inspired from Galaxy's physics.

 

[Hotfeet444]

*Sigh* I could have told you people this was going to happen, I could tell you from the moment the shackles came off that this was going to happen...nice job mods.

Anyways, since we're talking about Chrom...I wanna talk about Roy...here's Roy's moveset:

Spoiler

Roy:





Gameplay Ability: Burning Touch (Roy’s blade, like Marth and Ike’s, has a sweet spot, but instead of dealing extra damage, the sweet spot will set the opponent on fire, leaving them easier to combo and juggle. The sweet spot differs depending on the attack, so knowing which attacks are best for each situation is best. The attacks, if the opponent is set on fire, will still do the same amount of damage, but deliver it in more than one hit to hold the opponent in place longer and allow for follow-up attacks easier)
Standard A Combo: Sealed Slash (x1, 7% total, deals fire damage)


Forward + A: Blazing Pierce (A thrust attack, middle of blade will ignite opponents and cause a burning effect, 11%)


Up + A: Sealed Arch (Will slash in an upward arch, the tip of the blade at the beginning of the slash will ignite opponents on contact, 10%)


Down + A: Heel Poke (Will strike the opponent low with a jabbing poke, same as in Melee. The sword’s lower blade, near the hilt, will ignite the opponent if hit, 9%)


Dash Attack: Sealed Crescent (The same dash attack as in Melee, this attack cannot ignite the opponent. 12%)





Aerial Attacks:
Neutral A: Ignition Circlet (Will spin around in the air, swinging his blade twice. This blade will ignite the opponent on the second hit, 13% total)


Forward + A: Blazing Seal (An arching slash downward, the entire slash being able to engulf the opponent in fire. 11%)


Up + A: Fiery Flip (Will do a backflip in the air with his blade extended, the middle of the blade being able to ignite the opponent. 10%)


Backward + A: Thrusting Fire (Will turn around in the air and thrust his blade forward, the tip able to ignite the opponent in fire, 11%)


Down + A: Sealed Meteor (A powerful slash downward, being able to meteor smash the opponent. The entire attack can ignite the opponent, but does not hold the opponent in place and hits all at once. 13%)





Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash: Fiery Blade (Taken from his original Standard special, Roy will do a hard slash attack forward, the attack being able to release a burst of fire when it hits the ground, if the smash attack is charged up all at once. Can not insta-KO like the original Fiery Blade. 27%)





Up Smash: Heroic Blaze (Will kneel down, blade in sheath, before leaping up into the air and coming back down. Can hit opponents both up in the air or below him mid-attack, cannot meteor smash opponents over edges. 24% total)





Down Smash: Blazing Circlet (Will spin around, sword ignited, and deal damage on both sides of him. Gains extra reach thanks to fire surrounding the blade. 28%)





Grab/Throws:





Grab: Grabs the opponent with his free hand


Pummel: Knees the opponent (3% per pummel)


Front Throw: Throws the opponent over his shoulder (8%)


Up Throw: Throws the opponent upward and slashes them (9%)


Back Throw: Throws the opponent behind him (5%)


Down Throw: Throws the opponent onto the floor (5%)





Special Moves:
Standard Special: Sol





Roy’s new Standard special is the sol ability, which allows Roy to charge up the power of his blade while kneeling and sword sheathed. Once the attack stops charging, Roy will unsheathe his blade and deliver a powerful Horizontal slice with his sword encased in fire. If the attack is fully charged, Roy will be able to heal 15% damage upon contact, much like the actual Sol ability in Fire Emblem. 30% max, heals 15% at maximum charge





Side Special: Blazing Strike
A new side special, almost in the same vein as Ike’s side special, Roy will get into a battle stance with his blade facing behind him. With this attack, Roy can do a lunging strike that can deal fire damage upon contact with the ground, creating a quick flame burst. Roy will lunge farther depending on how long the B button is held. Roy can also use this attack to horizontally recover while in the air. 18% max





Up Special: Blazer





Roy’s up special returns to Smash Bros, but gets a couple of upgrades to differ itself from Marth’s Dolphin Slash. Instead of being a quick slash upwards, this attack is now a spinning ascension as Roy cloaks himself in fire on the way up, rapidly damaging opponents. This attack still mostly goes upward instead of to the side, making Roy better at recovering from a vertical distance than a horizontal distance. 15% total





Down Special: Counter





The counter is a staple of Fire Emblem, and Roy can do it as well like Marth and Ike. Roy’s counter will ignite the opponent on fire to leave them open for combos, making it overall more useful than Marth or Ike’s counter, although slower overall. 10% total.





Final Smash: Sealed Inferno





A quick final smash, Roy will raise his blade above his head as it becomes engulfed in fire, the fire becoming twice as long as the blade before Roy slashes down onto the ground, a huge wave of fire racing forward to deal damage to opponents in front of him. This huge blast of fire will do huge amounts of damage quickly and can very easily KO opponents. 50% total





Color Scheme:





#1: Navy Blue/Black/White (Awakening Roy Standard)


#2: Blue/Gold (Classic Roy)


#3: Red/Black/Gold (Classic Alternate Roy)


#4: Green/Black/Gold (Classic Alternate Roy #2)





Taunts:
#1: Raises blade upward, embers flying off the blade


#2: Original Taunt from Super Smash Bros Melee


#3: Swings and sheaths blade





Victory Circle:
#1: Roy will release do a couple of swings with his blade, giving one of his quotes from Super Smash Bros Melee


#2: Roy will Sheath his sword and cross his arms, giving one of his quotes from Super Smash Bros Melee


#3: Roy will brush his cape aside, his sword becoming ignited as he gives one of his quotes from Super Smash Bros Melee

 

[Baskerville]

Why do you keep using this like this is some sort of counter argument? You're saying that because I can easily recognize a character's potential which is so clearly obvious, that it doesn't matter because others can't?

So because other people can't realize how likely a character is, that they are automatically not likely?

Welp, looks like Oppo & Shorts said what I wanted to say.
People immediately dismissed Rosalina and outright assumed she would be a Semi or full on clone of Peach before she was revealed, and look what happened there. I find it kinda funny you're doing the same thing only with Chrom.

 

[Tepig2000]

You're saying the same thing. He doesn't like Chrom in Smash, which is the only Chrom that matters in this discussion. All the reasonings he stated that I quoted were more or less boosh.

1. Assuming what Sakurai thinks
2. Stating Chrom is insignificant
3.Saying he's not special/unique

The only argument which is worth looking at is the last one. Which he has a point, Chrom seems like a bland choice. But that's just it. Seems. It doesn't mean he will / would be. He was also going out of his way to dismiss any efforts for us to say "Well he could use this or that and it would help diversify him". Which, at the end of the day, he doesn't need a lance or Lucina to be unique. All it takes is different sword slashes than other characters. So, it seems like you don't really like Chrom.

No one likes Chrom, the hot choice is Robin.

But jokes aside, I agree with you. It is not because a character looks bland that they will be. Rosalina is the perfect example.

 

[Groose]

It's just hard to even imagine Sakurai looking at Chrom and thinking "Oh, yeah! This character would bring a lot to the game." I would imagine Sakurai would take somebody who is ALREADY promising. Not that he has to MAKE promising.

And picking such an unimportant character over say the Avatar who is promising and most certainly going to become a staple in the franchise? No.

I don't see what's so special about Chrom. I don't think the game being popular is anything unique about him and popular request doesn't really mean anything considering how many other characters are requested and more than him.

And again, he's not unique to begin with. He's only unique when people improvise using stuff that isn't even notable.

I completely agree with you on Chrom's lack of uniqueness. Inventing a stance-based moveset could definitely work and it may be unique in the context of Smash, but it's not so inherent to Chrom himself that he deserves to be considered a unique character for it.

However, I do think you underestimate him. His chance doesn't stem from being recent, it stems from being a character that a lot of people know and love. People who have just entered the Fire Emblem franchise see him as its flagship character, and I could potentially see confusion were he not a playable character. Other Fire Emblem candidates are completely foreign to the rather large batch of new Fire Emblem fans. I'd say Chrom's lack of uniqueness isn't an insurmountable problem--if they really want to put himn in for marketing or relation purposes, they could invent something for him--just look at how they did Rosalina. At the very least, I expect Chrom will get the Assist Trophy treatment--I actually think that's the most likely scenario for him, actually.

As this is a unique dilemma for this series alone, it's just really tough to predict. Personally, I have Chrom off of my prediction roster, but I view him as the most likely character not on it. Whether you'd like Chrom or absolutely hate him, you have to admit he has a pretty decent shot.

 

[Opossum]

I would also like to point out Saturn can predict correctly;he guessed Mac's Specials.

Many people predicted Little Mac's specials correctly. Right, @ManlySpirit ?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Nothing in Galaxy ever suggested a puppeteer moveset for Rosalina

Except that she has control over Lumas.

nor in Wii Fit was it suggested that the Wii Fit Trainer could fight using yoga.

...The fact that Wii Fit Trainer does yoga didn't suggest that she would do yoga if fighting as a playable character???

Source? To my knowledge, he's only behind Roy as far as requests are concerned.

Then there's your proof.

In a Smash context, no. Recency is obviously not the be-all end-all, but common sense dictates that Sakurai wouldn't choose Eirika at this point over Chrom.

But, why is Chrom now important all of the sudden? Why is he suddenly more important than other characters?

Fire Emblem 12 had a character creation system. It wasn't as in depth as Awakening's, but it was still there. And why would that be a good thing?

Because it's actually important to Fire Emblem. WAY more than Chrom is.

Just replace the character with a new version each time a new Smash comes out, because there's a new avatar? That's not exactly something I see happening.

Then don't see it happening. They'll probably just stick with the Awakening one because that would be a veteran.

Yep, he actually is. Give Shortie's polls (the most recent and the past poll, especially) for proof. Last I checked, Chrom sat comfortably at Number 10.

Still under Roy.

You said it didn't matter if you were a newcomer or veteran. It's been said that Sakurai feels it matters. That was his basis behind not de-cloning Ganondorf in Brawl, if I remember correctly. Pretty sure people can back me up on this.

Again, what does this have to do with Sakurai giving characters insignificant source material?

And may I add that Diddy's entire playstyle revolves around banana peels

I'm sorry..............what are you talking about!? One move = an entire playstyle???

 

[Morbi]

yeah cause it worked so well the first time

That is his point precisely. A character CAN be unique, that doesn't mean they WILL be unique. I am not insinuating that it is the most plausible argument, but that is exactly what he was implying.

 

[Baskerville]

Saturn, if you watched competitive videos of Diddy, he is very reliant on his bananas, without them he wouldn't be as good as he was.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think it'll be Chrom. Anniversary, and all.

Only if there was a desire to piss off people, maybe.

(Being serious here considering this unstable fanbase)

 

[pikachugamer21]

That is his point precisely. A character CAN be unique, that doesn't mean they WILL be unique. I am not insinuating that it is the most plausible argument, but that is exactly what he was implying.

ohhh ok gotcha but still Pichu is pretty impossible to make unique that's a challenge not even Sakurai can handle

 

[Morbi]

Saturn, if you watched competitive videos of Diddy, he is very reliant on his bananas, without them he wouldn't be as good as he was.

Yes, that is Diddy's most successful tool and he is entirely reliant on it, without the bananas he wouldn't be a top tier character. However, that doesn't mean his ENTIRE move-set was BASED around a banana. There is a difference.

 

[Kenith]

I completely agree with you on Chrom's lack of uniqueness. Inventing a stance-based moveset could definitely work and it may be unique in the context of Smash, but it's not so inherent to Chrom himself that he deserves to be considered a unique character for it.

However, I do think you underestimate him. His chance doesn't stem from being recent, it stems from being a character that a lot of people know and love. People who have just entered the Fire Emblem franchise see him as its flagship character, and I could potentially see confusion were he not a playable character. Other Fire Emblem candidates are completely foreign to the rather large batch of new Fire Emblem fans. I'd say Chrom's lack of uniqueness isn't an insurmountable problem--if they really want to put himn in for marketing or relation purposes, they could invent something for him--just look at how they did Rosalina. At the very least, I expect Chrom will get the Assist Trophy treatment--I actually think that's the most likely scenario for him, actually.

As this is a unique dilemma for this series alone, it's just really tough to predict. Personally, I have Chrom off of my prediction roster, but I view him as the most likely character not on it. Whether you'd like Chrom or absolutely hate him, you have to admit he has a pretty decent shot.

This is not good for me as I am quite pro-Lucina.