Character Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

Midna instead of Debbie.

Wait...

Who the heck is Debbie?

 

[Morbi]

Wait...

Who the heck is Debbie?

I looked it up, I think that is Ghirahim's real name or something.

 

[Curious Villager]

Wait...

Who the heck is Debbie?

Ghirahim.

Some guys at Zeldauniverse nicknamed him Debbie and thus the whole internet started calling him that until his official name was known.

 

[Kenith]

I will accuse you of being biased, once again! You are biased by definition if you blatantly disregard an argument because you do not like the implications, it is truly that simple. I did attempt to make it more concise. Ghirahim, has less perceived prominence as he was in the most recent console Zelda, the worst selling console Zelda, and the was his only appearance. Tingle has been a prevalent character for over a decade (if I recall correctly), this entails appearances in some of the most well-regarded Legend of Zelda titles. Tingle has his own spin-off series. Tingle has Smash relevance (background character in Melee, and Assist Trophy in Brawl). If we are using rationality as an aspect of this discussion, Tingle is going to have the larger fan-base. Ghirahim appearing in one title, a recent title, a bad-selling title isn't going to amass a larger fan-base than Tingle. It is quite literally impossible. That being said, he isn't unpopular, I just believe Tingle to be the more popular candidate. The exposure is much more overt. Ghirahim has a louder Smash fan-base, Ghirahim has more dedicated fans, Ghirahim procured his popularity much more quickly than Tingle could ever hope. That doesn't change the notion that Tingle has had more time, more appearances, and more exposure. I also find that Tingle is MORE popular in Japan, which is relevant. Empirical evidence versus an assumption based on logic. None of us are more correct, we simply disagree.

Ghirahim is also a lot more popular in Japan, as both characters are based on Japanese character tropes. All of Tingle's games sold poorly as well, sans Wind Waker, which is the role he is most reviled for.
I will now accuse you of bias, as there have been many points I have shared you have completely disregarded in favor of explaining to me why Tingle is the more popular character. Go back and read my posts, and the links, if you want evidence. Because I certainly am not going to, I'm sick of having to read walls of your text...

Wait...

Who the heck is Debbie?

The most beautiful woman you will never meet.

edit: Where do these Ninjas come from?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ghirahim.

I looked it up, I think that is Ghirahim's real name or something.

Seriously?

Okay....

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I'm sick of arguing with people who will never agree with me. How about this roster?

View attachment 8770

50 slots, as opposed to fifty actual characters. Hey, it could happen.
The main change is two DK characters, Krystal, and Midna instead of Debbie.

That is a roster that i could agree on..though i still think Chrom should be in other Lucina

 

[Curious Villager]

Seriously?

Okay....

Yeah, it was with the whole fabulous vibe he gave everyone back when he was first revealed.

 

[Morbi]

Ghirahim is also a lot more popular in Japan, as both characters are based on Japanese character tropes. All of Tingle's games sold poorly as well, sans Wind Waker, which is the role he is most reviled for.
I will now accuse you of bias, as there have been many points I have shared you have completely disregarded in favor of explaining to me why Tingle is the more popular character. Go back and read my posts, and the links, if you want evidence. Because I certainly am not going to, I'm sick of having to read walls of your text...



The most beautiful woman you will never meet.

I am not well-versed in Zelda sales, it is hardly a subject that pertains to my interests. However, Wind Waker and Majora's Mask, regardless of sales, are some of the most well-regarded Zelda titles. So at that point, I would assert that sales aren't relevant in that context (as we are alluding to sales operating under the assumption that the lend to exposure; clearly, the persistent of time is the more pertinent notion in regards to Tingle's games). That might be the case of Skyward Sword; however, it hasn't had enough time to become a "classic" and fans weren't entirely receptive to the game.

That being said, I don't find sales to be the predominant argument in question. Sales only measure the games exposure, not necessarily the characters role. In that respect, it is quite clear why Tingle took so much longer to amass his fan-base.

I didn't disregard anything you stated, I addressed everything. If you would so kindly reiterate what I am biased about, I will be sure to respond to it. The links, as you yourself stated, weren't evidence relevant to the discussion at hand. If that is what you are alluding to, I surmised them as empirical evidence. I don't necessarily take that into account as it isn't plausible.

You don't have to read my walls of text, I am just doing this for fun. If it is bothering you to a significant degree, I highly suggest that you stop responding.

 

[Kenith]

You don't have to read my walls of text, I am just doing this for fun. If it is bothering you to a significant degree, I highly suggest that you stop responding.

That suits me just fine.
I want to incite discussion on the roster I made...

That is a roster that i could agree on..though i still think Chrom should be in other Lucina

Okay. But you also want Virtual Boy to be playable.

I feel Lucina has more uniqueness potential than Chrom and I like her more as a character. But that is me.

 

[N3ON]

Wait...

Who the heck is Debbie?

Would you like to field this question @Holder of the Heel?

 

[Morbi]

I'm sick of arguing with people who will never agree with me. How about this roster?

View attachment 8770

50 slots, as opposed to fifty actual characters. Hey, it could happen.
The main change is two DK characters, Krystal, and Midna instead of Debbie.

I honestly don't see multiple Donkey Kong newcomers in Smash 4. It is fine on your roster, as you aren't capping the roster at 50 characters (more rather, 50 slots). So it gives you room to add an additional Donkey Kong character. However, in the grand scheme, Donkey Kong would be fairly complete with just King K. Rool. You would represent the main protagonist, the side character/secondary protagonist, and the main antagonist. That being said, Dixie Kong is probably the more realistic choice, which is where many fall in the notion of including both. It is entirely possible, I used to be an advocate of such. Once one considers that we are probably only going to get 5 more newcomers (not including Mewtwo, who I already consider to be on the roster), we are already almost out of space.

At that point, we are most probably going to get a retro character, we can't dismiss another 3rd party character like Pac-man, or new series representation on top of every other present series, this is including franchises that many see another character for (such as Fire Emblem or Legend of Zelda). So it is certainly possible to see two Donkey Kong characters, but I don't personally see it happening.

Krystal. As many are aware, I find that many underestimate her value.

Midna instead of Ghirahim is more plausible than many give credit (as you yourself made apparent). Many cite 3 Link's as not entirely feasible; however, they completely and utterly disregard that we were about to get 4 Zelda's. At that point, 3 Link's doesn't seem as redundant... especially if one is a wolf. Hardly the same thing at all.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

People here just really hate Miis...

I understand not liking the character, but what's with the hatred?

Personally, I think they are lame.

That said, yeah, it's hard to deny their importance and icon status.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I'm sick of arguing with people who will never agree with me. How about this roster?

View attachment 8770

50 slots, as opposed to fifty actual characters. Hey, it could happen.
The main change is two DK characters, Krystal, and Midna instead of Debbie.

No Bomberman 0/10.

In all srs bsns, DK is fine, I'm indifferent to Krystal, and I lament the loss of Demon Dame Debbie.

 

[Morbi]

Personally, I think they are lame.

That said, yeah, it's hard to deny their importance and icon status.

I wouldn't actually mind Mii characters in Smash if it wasn't for Villager. I already feel as though Villager isn't as unique as he could be as he draws inspiration from the random, he is obviously a "everything and the kitchen sink" character, just like Game and Watch. So this attenuates his value. Villager, aesthetically, is reminiscent of a Mii as it already is. So Miis at this point would be entirely redundant. I doubt they would have a cohesive move-set and Villager already draws inspiration from Wii Sports (Bowling Ball and Punching Gloves)... so I don't want them in the game.

That being said, it is almost impossible to disregard their iconic nature and inherent prominence. So I sort of expect them to an extent, I honestly don't envision them in the game, but I could see it happening.

 

[Kenith]

I honestly don't see multiple Donkey Kong newcomers in Smash 4. It is fine on your roster, as you aren't capping the roster at 50 characters (more rather, 50 slots). So it gives you room to add an additional Donkey Kong character. However, in the grand scheme, Donkey Kong would be fairly complete with just King K. Rool. You would represent the main protagonist, the side character/secondary protagonist, and the main antagonist. That being said, Dixie Kong is probably the more realistic choice, which is where many fall in the notion of including both. It is entirely possible, I used to be an advocate of such. Once one considers that we are probably only going to get 5 more newcomers (not including Mewtwo, who I already consider to be on the roster), we are already almost out of space.

At that point, we are most probably going to get a retro character, we can't dismiss another 3rd party character like Pac-man, or new series representation on top of every other present series, this is including franchises that many see another character for (such as Fire Emblem or Legend of Zelda). So it is certainly possible to see two Donkey Kong characters, but I don't personally see it happening.

Krystal. As many are aware, I find that many underestimate her value.

Midna instead of Ghirahim is more plausible than many give credit (as you yourself made apparent). Many cite 3 Link's as not entirely feasible; however, they completely and utterly disregard that we were about to get 4 Zelda's. At that point, 3 Link's doesn't seem as redundant... especially if one is a wolf. Hardly the same thing at all.

Midna could work well on her own as well, in my opinion. Considering she is about the size of Mario as an imp, size is not an issue.
I feel she could go Rosalina's route and take some of Link's unique abilities from TP (which she grants anyway).

Krystal is actually really popular, so I kind of think she's really likely now. The general consensus here is that she is a terrible character who is only liked due to her sexual appeal, however I think there's more to it than that.

I think two DK newcomers is likely, as during Melee and Brawl's development, the series had not seen major releases since DK64, but in the years since Brawl, Donkey Kong Country has become one of Nintendo's biggest sellers for the Wii/Wii U. So I believe that the series's overall prominence may finally be recognized.

I tried to cover all bases on this roster, which I why 50 slots was the best way to go.

 

[Manny Toons]

True. With Villager already in, there's not much need for the Miis. Sure, they have the more customizational factor, but Villager is already the quintessential "avatar" character. His moveset is also pretty much what we're expecting from Mii, so it's basically as if Villager beat the Miis to the punch. ...No pun intended.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I wouldn't actually mind Mii characters in Smash if it wasn't for Villager. I already feel as though Villager isn't as unique as he could be as he draws inspiration from the random, he is obviously a "everything and the kitchen sink" character, just like Game and Watch. So this attenuates his value. Villager, aesthetically, is reminiscent of a Mii as it already is. So Miis at this point would be entirely redundant. I doubt they would have a cohesive move-set and Villager already draws inspiration from Wii Sports (Bowling Ball and Punching Gloves)... so I don't want them in the game.

That being said, it is almost impossible to disregard their iconic nature and inherent prominence. So I sort of expect them to an extent, I honestly don't envision them in the game, but I could see it happening.

What if we got a Mii Assist Trophy?

It could be like a Mii Parade thing, wherein a legion of Miis traverse and trample those in their path (some of them possibly taking the appearance of custom Miis found on your system). Given that they are the mascots of the Wii console line, they have enough significance to at least make it to Assist Tropy status, for better or worse.

 

[Deleted member]

Villager already draws inspiration from Wii Sports (Bowling Ball and Punching Gloves)... so I don't want them in the game.

Animal Crossing features bowling balls through the Ball Return furniture item, and there is an entire theme set of furniture for Boxing. Though it excludes boxing gloves, it isn't a stretch to imagine that the Villager's boxing gloves in Smash are inspired by the furniture in his home series as opposed to Wii Sports, especially when considering that Sakurai thought up of moves for Villager before Wii Sports was a thing.
EDIT: Then there's the fact that the original game featured Punch-Out!! as one of its NES games...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This...

"Too many kitchen sink characters"

is sounding like...

"Too many swordsmen"

Really. It's crazy. We wouldn't say something like that for any other character.

People say Chrom of all people can be unique.

So what's the problem with Miis when they have ten times more material to work with?

 

[Morbi]

What if we got a Mii Assist Trophy?

It could be like a Mii Parade thing, wherein a legion of Miis traverse and trample those in their path (some of them possibly taking the appearance of custom Miis found on your system). Given that they are the mascots of the Wii console line, they have enough significance to at least make it to Assist Tropy status, for better or worse.

I wouldn't mind that at all. I would actually thoroughly enjoy that. As I stated, I just find them redundant as playable characters, not only because of Villager (although he is the primary reason) but because of Game and Watch. We don't really need another "everything and the kitchen sink" character.

 

[Hotfeet444]

It's been a while since I've made a new roster...

 

[Kenith]

No Bomberman 0/10.

In all srs bsns, DK is fine, I'm indifferent to Krystal, and I lament the loss of Demon Dame Debbie.

I have actually always liked Midna more, but the fact that the character use the TP designs and the signs that Sakurai is looking hard for unique newcomers makes me have hope once again. If Ghirahim gets in however, I will be equally happy.

 

[Morbi]

This...

"Too many kitchen sink characters"

is sounding like...

"Too many swordsmen"

Really. It's crazy. We wouldn't say something like that for any other character.

People say Chrom of all people can be unique.

So what's the problem with Miis when they have ten times more material to work with?

It is most certainly the equivalent argument, so it is inherently fallacious. That being said, I am not really a fan of those ("everything with the kitchen sink") characters. I believe that one is sufficient and I don't mind Villager as much because he already has some unique aspects that make his character more cohesive. I just feel as though Miis would be slightly redundant (mostly aesthetically), it is entirely subjective and I can see why you don't agree. But I can't get past this bias.

Animal Crossing features bowling balls through the Ball Return furniture item, and there is an entire theme set of furniture for Boxing. Though it excludes boxing gloves, it isn't a stretch to imagine that the Villager's boxing gloves in Smash are inspired by the furniture in his home series as opposed to Wii Sports, especially when considering that Sakurai thought up of moves for Villager before Wii Sports was a thing.
EDIT: Then there's the fact that the original game featured Punch-Out!! as one of its NES games...

I apologize, I was mistaken. I recall a discussion where someone asserted that Animal Crossing didn't have anything to do with Bowling. I suppose, with the omission of boxing gloves and the presumption that Bowling wasn't alluded to in Animal Crossing, I associated the items with Wii Sports.

 

[BluePikmin11]

This...

"Too many kitchen sink characters"

is sounding like...

"Too many swordsmen"

Really. It's crazy. We wouldn't say something like that for any other character.

People say Chrom of all people can be unique.

So what's the problem with Miis when they have ten times more material to work with?

This statement proves were just not trying hard enough.

 

[Manny Toons]

What if we got a Mii Assist Trophy?

It could be like a Mii Parade thing, wherein a legion of Miis traverse and trample those in their path (some of them possibly taking the appearance of custom Miis found on your system). Given that they are the mascots of the Wii console line, they have enough significance to at least make it to Assist Tropy status, for better or worse.

I like this idea a lot. It allows a way for the Miis to get that attention they deserve, but also keeping them from (inevitably) muddling the online experience.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I have actually always liked Midna more, but the fact that the character use the TP designs and the signs that Sakurai is looking hard for unique newcomers makes me have hope once again. If Ghirahim gets in however, I will be equally happy.

Midna would probably have been a prime choice for Brawl, given the more gritty realist palette and how the Zelda cast (minus Toon Link) had appropriated their then-recent TP designs. I suppose there's nothing preventing her from joining SSB4, but she's in the same boat as Ghirahim, I'd expect - a one-off character from a console Zelda who has a sizeable amount of popularity backing them.

OOT's Zora King is the most popular character, though, so I think he's got the highest chances of getting in, if a Zelda Newcomer is decided to be necessary.

 

[Opossum]

How about we switch the subject?

Which character do you think will be revealed as a newcomer in April?
Personally I'm placing my bets on Takamaru, because his game has an anniversary in that month and Mac was similarly revealed for the anniversary of Punch-Out.

I think it'll be Chrom. Anniversary, and all.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I like this idea a lot. It allows a way for the Miis to get that attention they deserve, but also keeping them from (inevitably) muddling the online experience.

Still, you'll see pingas faces and Hitlers during the match if you summon them.

 

[Bowserlick]

Could Mii make it in with a moveset borrowing heavily from PilotWings?

 

[Kenith]

I think Lucina has more potential to be unique than Chrom.

Firstly, Chrom is somewhat meant to be a fusion of elements of Marth and other FE lords (since Awakening is reinventing the series), while Lucina, while bearing a Marth disguise, has a unique backstory and motives from Marth.

I also think that her standard moves would be different too, due to the unique way she wields her sword. Her specials could be based off
of different Skills from Awakening, for example, as dashing stab based on Luna.

The biggest thing, however, is the Marth disguise. I think that having the ability to swap between normal Lucina and disguised Lucina, each with unique sword attacks and properties, would be really cool and would represent the "stance character" everyone talks about.

And she's female! Girl power!

 

[Manny Toons]

Still, you'll see pingas faces and Hitlers during the match if you summon them.

Oh god... you're right. IT'S UNAVOIDABLE.
(Unless if... you know, simple, generic Miis rampage across the screen instead)

 

[N3ON]

Could Mii make it in with a moveset borrowing heavily from PilotWings?

If it did that'd be a lot of wasted potential considering all the other games Mii could draw from. I'd hope the Pilotwings references will maybe be limited to the Mii's recovery or something.

I think it'll be Chrom. Anniversary, and all.

I'm not looking forward to when all this FE madness comes to a head; whatever happens there's going to be a lot of anger and even dumber theories than we have now. Especially if we get Chrom before Ike.

 

[Morbi]

I think it'll be Chrom. Anniversary, and all.

I honestly don't see any newcomers until E3. We had to wait 6 months for Rosalina, I highly doubt another 4 months is going to be that absurd. I can see Ike for the anniversary though. Assuming we only have 5 more newcomers in the game (not including Mewtwo), one reveal prior to E3 and a lackluster E3 of only 2 newcomer reveals would result in 2 or 3 secret characters. Either we are going to get more characters than we originally anticipated... or we aren't going to be getting a lot of newcomer reveals prior to launch. That being said, I am sure we will get more than a few veteran reveals before the game launches.

 

[Dairz]

Still, you'll see pingas faces and Hitlers during the match if you summon them.

Exactly, then everyone can send Sakurai pics of their Jesus parades and then Sakurai will be confused as to what he created.

 

[Curious Villager]

This...

"Too many kitchen sink characters"

is sounding like...

"Too many swordsmen"

Really. It's crazy. We wouldn't say something like that for any other character.

People say Chrom of all people can be unique.

So what's the problem with Miis when they have ten times more material to work with?

Yeah it's kinda running down to bias at this point when people say that there will be too many kitchen sink characters when there is really only one or maybe two and yet want more characters who use swords and such commonly previously used weapons and all. Or even want one swordless character gain a sword.

But eh.... :/

 

[Opossum]

I'm not looking forward to when all this FE madness comes to a head; whatever happens there's going to be a lot of anger and even dumber theories than we have now. Especially if we get Chrom before Ike.

I wouldn't worry about anyone who claims Ike won't get in, regardless if Chrom enters. In my opinion, Ike is in the same boat Lucario was in. We can just ignore those who think Ike won't get in.

Except not really, since we're mods.

 

[RouffWestie]

One just wasn't enough

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Kenith]

Yeah it's kinda running down to bias at this point when people say that there will be too many kitchen sink characters when there is really only one or maybe two and yet want more characters who use swords and such previously used weapons and all. Or even want one swordless character gain a sword.
But eh.... :/

I don't want him to have a sword, especially if it's the Sword of Sages.
I would rather he has a physical and magic based moveset.

 

[Sehnsucht]

We should get a Kitchen Sink item.

The effect/use that it has is totally random (Attack? Status? Heal? SD?), and you'll only find out when you pick it up.

 

[N3ON]

I wouldn't worry about anyone who claims Ike won't get in, regardless if Chrom enters. In my opinion, Ike is in the same boat Lucario was in. We can just ignore those who think Ike won't get in.

Yeah, I agree. But we're still gonna hafta hear from those who think otherwise.

Except not really, since we're mods.

Welcome to the party, here's your complementary bottle of aspirin.