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Arcadenik

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She was intended to be a character paired with Diddy, which was scrapped and eventually led to her data going unused as Diddy became his own playable character.
Not denying that... however, Sakurai tends to add scrapped ideas in the sequel... so Dixie may be scrapped in Brawl... but she might come back in SSB4... just like how he decided Villager wouldn't be plausible as a fighter in Brawl.
 

Kenith

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Not a chance, Little Mac's reveal basically shot Dixie's chances down faster than Sonic the Hedgehog himself. Think about it, the only reason people truly believed Dixie was more likely was thanks to Tropical Freeze. That Direct was the perfect time to reveal Dixie, the new game coming out in less than a week, it was a perfect moment. Why wasn't it jumped on? Perhaps it's because recency isn't enough to give a third wheel more importance than the main villain of the franchise. Dixie missed what was easily her perfect chance.
I could see that, but I think two DK newcomers is possible if the roster is big enough.

While I don't agree with the removed statement, you do have a good point here. Miis weren't in Brawl at all were they? I don't think they even got a trophy or sticker, they surely would have gotten at least some kind of mention during their prime. While I have no doubt they will appear this time in some form (the idea of a "Multi Mii Melee" sounds perfect for them), it's really odd that they were completely absent previously. And guys, they still would have gotten some kind of mention in Brawl, there was stuff from MGS4 in the game before MGS4 ever even came out. You'd think Sakurai knew Miis existed when he was making Brawl.
Which removed statement do you mean?


I DON'T LIKE MIIS SO I DENY THEIR IMPORTANCE AND IMPACT TO NINTENDO AND REJECT THE NOTION THEY'D BE INCLUDED IN A GAME THAT HONORS IMPORTANCE AND IMPACT TO NINTENDO BECAUSE THEY'RE STUPID
Again, there's a huge difference between hating something and hating it in a specific context.

For example, I like my fried chicken and gravy, and I like chocolate syrup, but I'm not going to pour chocolate syrup on my chicken and gravy. It doesn't feel right. Same with Mii in the context of Smash.
 

Hotfeet444

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Not denying that... however, Sakurai tends to add scrapped ideas in the sequel... so Dixie may be scrapped in Brawl... but she might come back in SSB4... just like how he decided Villager wouldn't be plausible as a fighter in Brawl.
If the scrapped idea comes back, that means that she'll be paired with Diddy again since that was the original idea. And to be honest, if that means K.Rool can still be playable, I have no problem with that.That way everybody wins. :p

I could see that, but I think two DK newcomers is possible if the roster is big enough.
It could happen, but we'll never know until the game releases.
 
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JamesDNaux

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Which removed statement do you mean?
The statement I removed in the original quote.

For example, I like my fried chicken and gravy, and I like chocolate syrup, but I'm not going to pour chocolate syrup on my chicken and gravy. It doesn't feel right. Same with Mii in the context of Smash.
What's your favorite kind of flower Mac? Mine's chocolate, and I like it with steak.
 
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Curious Villager

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People here just really hate Miis...

I understand not liking the character, but what's with the hatred?
People seem to be rustling their jimmies mostly over this whole "Hitler" and "penis face" issue from what I've understood. And because they aren't fully fledged "characters"...

However, I think Nintendo will probably just only allow the player to use their default Mii and from what I've seen during my online experiences with my 3DS, the majority of the time the Mii's have looked pretty normal to me....... for a Mii I mean....

So it shouldn't really be that much of an issue I'd imagine....
 

N3ON

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Adding the already made, easy to implement, and incredibly simply designed Miis is time consuming? I'm saying he probably said it when they were planning it, not randomly at the end of development and they all scrambled to add them.
Yes, it would've been time consuming. It wouldn't have been the most time consuming aspect of development, but definitely more than something based, decided, and followed through on due to a whim.
Also they would've required planning and dev time anywhere in the development schedule, so whether at the beginning or at the end, they'd still probably likely need a more concrete reason then "because they felt like it". I don't know why you're trying so hard to deny that characters from a multi-multi-million unit selling series are popular.

And didn't Retro plan out Cranky for Tropical Freeze because Miyamoto suggested it? I don't remember where I read that, but I'm sure someone has a link.
Dunno

And come on, I never said any of this, I already said I don't care if they get in, I don't hate Miis. I made a comment like this before and I got a warning for flaming, I guess mods are immune then?
Well first that wasn't directed specifically at you, it seemed to be the general mindset of these anti-Mii arguments once it got distilled down, and two, I didn't throw out any insults there, I didn't call anybody any names, I didn't even call anyone out. That's not flaming to me.
 
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If the scrapped idea comes back, that means that she'll be paired with Diddy again since that was the original idea. And to be honest, if that means K.Rool can still be playable, I have no problem with that.
Except that things have did that people like Diddy as who he is in Brawl, and many of them would become frustrated to see Diddy who isn't completely Diddy, if you see what I mean.
 

SmasherMaster

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I expect the Miis but I don't want them.

Mostly because I don't want online filled with Mario, Hitler, Obama and Bicycle Face.
 

N3ON

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Again, there's a huge difference between hating something and hating it in a specific context.

For example, I like my fried chicken and gravy, and I like chocolate syrup, but I'm not going to pour chocolate syrup on my chicken and gravy. It doesn't feel right. Same with Mii in the context of Smash.
Yeah, so you don't think the Miis should be added. That's your opinion, don't treat it like fact.
 

Hotfeet444

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Except that things have did that people like Diddy as who he is in Brawl, and many of them would become frustrated to see Diddy who isn't completely Diddy, if you see what I mean.
Perhaps, but I'm sure that even as a tag-team, Diddy would still be the same character...probably just lacking the Banana peel is all. I'm not sure how Diddy mains would take that, but tagging out between Kongs isn't something overly necessary. If you want to play as Diddy only, don't swap out. If you want to play as Charizard, don't swap out, if you want to play as Zelda only, don't swap out. It's quite simple.

Yeah, so you don't think the Miis should be added. That's your opinion, don't treat it like fact.
What if I said "I don't mind the concept, but I feel there's things that should be put in the game first before it's used"?
 
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Kenith

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Yeah, so you don't think the Miis should be added. That's your opinion, don't treat it like fact.
I don't recall ever treating it as fact. But I'm not going to expend the effort to include disclaimers in every post I make, or add "I think" to the beginning of every sentence.

I don't know everything. Miis could very well be added. But using logic, I can say that it would be a mixed choice.
 

JamesDNaux

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I don't know why you're trying so hard to deny that characters from a multi-multi-million unit selling series aren't popular.
Oh well. I'm not trying hard to deny anything, it's really easy. Just an example here, I'm not saying no one likes Toad, but just imagine this: Everyone loves Super Mario 3D World, the game sold well, a few people like Toad, but not a lot. Did Toad sell 3D World? Is he iconic because he was included as a playable character in the game? Well, that was kind of a ****ty example, but if you take it out of the context of Mario then it makes sense. I think.

Anyway, I'll just stop if you'd prefer since I'm not really debating for any reasons. If they get in, they get in, nothing gained or lost.

Well first that wasn't directed specifically at you, it seemed to be the general mindset of these anti-Mii arguments once it got distilled down, and two, I didn't throw out any insults there, I didn't call anybody any names, I didn't even call anyone out. That's not flaming to me.
Well I never flamed anyone, but I did do an "impression" in the same vein as "I like/dislike this character because *insert stupid reasons*" It's no big deal, it just seemed off to me that what I said came across as flaming when it was basically the same thing you just said. Though that's something that's said and done.
 

Staarih

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Except that things have did that people like Diddy as who he is in Brawl, and many of them would become frustrated to see Diddy who isn't completely Diddy, if you see what I mean.
I personally wouldn't mind if Dixie was added to tag along with Diddy, and actually think that Diddy would still be "completely" himself - actually a tad MORE than that with Dixie around, naturally. I think the pair would follow the DKC tag-along style, where when you play with a character, the other one just tags along. So Diddy would still be Diddy, unless you change into Dixie of course. Basically an added plus with no harm whatsoever.

But I do see why some oppose the idea, as Diddy has already been portrayed as a good enough character on his own. Guess we'll just have to wait and see, we might get an answer to it sooner than we think if Sakurai acknowledges the international release of TF.
 

Dairz

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It's exactly the same. Link has a set character, despite the ability to name him, he's still Link. Miis and Villager are both completely blank slates, they are both customize-able, nameable, etc. Miis and the Villager are literally the same thing, Miis just have a more accessible customization, while Villager has a better one.
Wait, what. You choose Links name and what he says for dialogue options. Depending on which dialogue you choose, Link can have a different personality. And most people choose the option they themselves would choose, so how come Link isn't their avatar?
 

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Wait, what. You choose Links name and what he says for dialogue options. Depending on which dialogue you choose, Link can have a different personality. And most people choose the option they themselves would choose, so how come Link isn't their avatar?
Wait what? Are you saying Link is as customizable as a Mii? Are you serious?
 

Swamp Sensei

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This is the basis of my entire argument against Pacman. He's an Arcade star, not a Nintendo star.
Mega Man is, for all intents and purposes, a "Nintendo star" because all of his best selling games were on Nintendo consoles.
:snake:

Being a gaming all star is all that you need.
 

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Wait, what. You choose Links name and what he says for dialogue options. Depending on which dialogue you choose, Link can have a different personality. And most people choose the option they themselves would choose, so how come Link isn't their avatar?
Err, Link is a silent protagonist. The only time he ever spoke was saying "come on!" in Wind Waker, and something about a mirror under a table in Zelda 2.

Link has a set defined character, he's a hero born to stop the evil Ganondorf, he has interactions with characters that are predefined. Villager is literally you moving into a new place and doing things however you want to, there's no goal in the game, you just live life. That's a pretty big difference.
 

Dairz

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Wait what? Are you saying Link is as customizable as a Mii? Are you serious?
Not even close. I'm saying Link is the players avatar.

Err, Link is a silent protagonist. The only time he ever spoke was saying "come on!" in Wind Waker, and something about a mirror under a table in Zelda 2.
What about all the times you talk to characters, and then an option appears?
Girl: Who are you?

You:
option1: A defender of justice!
option2: A creepy night stalker!
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Kojima. Snake breaks the rules.
There were never any rules to break.

This "relevance to Nintendo" rule is completely fabricated.

Tell me where Sakurai said this, then I'll treat it as a rule.
 
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IsmaR

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Link has always had a limited amount of customization. Armor, optional items/upgrades/titles, and little things like being able to name yourself something different than Link.
 

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While Pac-Man is definitely known more from the arcades, I recall most (if not all) of his games during his "home console era" being in fact on Nintendo consoles (among some others surely), so I'd say the ties are still there.
 

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What about all the times you talk to characters, and then an option appears?
Girl: Who are you?

You:
option1: A defender of justice!
option2: A creepy night stalker!
...You took that seriously? It didn't even have any impact on the story. It was also only ever in one game in the entire franchise.

Link is not an avatar of the player, Link is Link, you can just name him whatever you want. Unless you're saying that you're a Hylian who has the Triforce of Courage and goes around dungeons collecting heart pieces and items in order to save the princess from some evil-doer. Yeah, Animal Crossing has some crazy interactions, but the main focus is that the character is meant to be you, Link has a clearly defined character like you would see in any other kind of story.
 

Dairz

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...You took that seriously? It didn't even have any impact on the story. It was also only ever in one game in the entire franchise.
I've only played Wind Waker HD, but I know Skyward Sword has dialogue choices. Thats not only one game ever. It might not have impact on the story, but it really implants that your Link has a "personality" of your choice. If you want your Link to be an Ass, you can talk like one whenever given the opportunity.
 
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Kenith

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There were never any rules to break.
This "relevance to Nintendo" rule is completely fabricated. Tell me where Sakurai said this, then I'll treat it as a rule.
That may be so, but Sakurai said a third-party has to be a "very special situation" and stressed this multiple times in the same interview, leading me to believe more third parties increasingly unlikely.
 

Morbi

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Well, I mean, I'm indifferent to him.
I am more than fine if he's an Assist Trophy. But anything more would be stupid, and, it would be worse than Pacman or Mii.



You're going to criticize me for confirmation bias? Okay then.
If you have proof, show it to me. Otherwise you're just contradicting me for fun.

None of these proof either of our points, but I'm reading them as reference.

http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2013/06/kensuke-tanabe-wants-to-make-tingle-popular-in-the-west/

http://zeldawiki.org/Talk:Tingle

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/68369429?page=3
Yes, you literally stated that you would blatantly disregard the notion I illuminated because I was alluding to sales and his reoccurring role. Obviously, these refute the point that Ghirahim is the more popular character, and you said you wouldn't believe me as I was using them. That is confirmation bias.

Edit- I apologize that this is so late, I had to leave yesterday. Haha.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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That may be so, but Sakurai said a third-party has to be a "very special situation" and stressed this multiple times in the same interview, leading me to believe more third parties increasingly unlikely.
I never said otherwise...

You are quite literally changing the argument....
 

Morbi

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This is the basis of my entire argument against Pacman. He's an Arcade star, not a Nintendo star.
Mega Man is, for all intents and purposes, a "Nintendo star" because all of his best selling games were on Nintendo consoles.
Someone already brought this up; however, it is important to note that Nintendo relevance (obviously) isn't important when dealing with 3rd party characters. That is the entire point of their inclusion if I recall correctly. Pac-Man doesn't just have his all-star status going for him, he has something much more overt. The entire premise that Namco is co-developing the game is over half of the reason people even speculate in his favor. So even if Nintendo relevance was criteria, he would be exempt (logically) as they (Namco) are actually helping to conceive Smash 4.
 

Kenith

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I never said otherwise...
You are quite literally changing the argument....
I would like to quite literally end the argument.
And I am not. I am just exercising many different points on why Pacman is unlikely to be included.

Yes, you literally stated that you would blatantly disregard the notion I illuminated because I was alluding to sales and his reoccurring role. Obviously, these refute the point that Ghirahim is the more popular character, and you said you wouldn't believe me as I was using them. That is confirmation bias.

Edit- I apologize that this is so late, I had to leave yesterday. Haha.
I refuted your points because you were saying something I thought both of us disagreed on, something crazy, and didn't really back it up or make it easier for me to understand. Dont you ever accuse me of being biased. I'm not as obsessed with this character as you may think. I think of him as more popular based on what I have read from many different sources. And this is still in the context of Smash. I really don't want to drag this back up if accusations are going to be called at me.
 

AncientTobacco

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How about we switch the subject?

Which character do you think will be revealed as a newcomer in April?
Personally I'm placing my bets on Takamaru, because his game has an anniversary in that month and Mac was similarly revealed for the anniversary of Punch-Out.
 
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Kenith

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I'm sick of arguing with people who will never agree with me. How about this roster?

Prediction Roster 2 Roster.png


50 slots, as opposed to fifty actual characters. Hey, it could happen.
The main change is two DK characters, Krystal, and Midna instead of Debbie.
 
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Morbi

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I would like to quite literally end the argument.
And I am not. I am just exercising many different points on why Pacman is unlikely to be included.



I refuted your points because you were saying something I thought both of us disagreed on, something crazy, and didn't really back it up or make it easier for me to understand. Dont you ever accuse me of being biased. I'm not as obsessed with this character as you may think. I think of him as more popular based on what I have read from many different sources. And this is still in the context of Smash. I really don't want to drag this back up if accusations are going to be called at me.
I will accuse you of being biased, once again! You are biased by definition if you blatantly disregard an argument because you do not like the implications, it is truly that simple. I did attempt to make it more concise.

Ghirahim, has less perceived prominence as he was in the most recent console Zelda, the worst selling console Zelda, and that was his only appearance. Tingle has been a prevalent character for over a decade (if I recall correctly), this entails appearances in some of the most well-regarded Legend of Zelda titles. Tingle has his own spin-off series. Tingle has Smash relevance (background character in Melee, and Assist Trophy in Brawl).

If we are using rationality as an aspect of this discussion, Tingle is going to have the larger fan-base. Ghirahim appearing in one title, a recent title, a bad-selling title isn't going to amass a larger fan-base than Tingle. It is quite literally impossible. That being said, he isn't unpopular, I just believe Tingle to be the more popular candidate. The exposure is much more overt. Ghirahim has a louder Smash fan-base, Ghirahim has more dedicated fans, Ghirahim procured his popularity much more quickly than Tingle could ever hope. That doesn't change the notion that Tingle has had more time, more appearances, and more exposure. I also find that Tingle is MORE popular in Japan, which is relevant.

Empirical evidence versus an assumption based on logic. None of us are more correct, we simply disagree.
 
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