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N3ON

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Miis are most definitely Nintendo All-Stars, whether we like it or not.

Guys, take into consideration, yes, Wii Sports sold crazy good. But it was bundled with the Wii. They could have taken any game, good or not, and bundled it with the Wii, it would have sold just as well because the Wii itself sold like hotcakes. It's common sense.
The fact as to how the Miis got themselves into millions of homes probably won't be as important to Sakurai as the fact that they did get themselves into millions of homes. Not to mention Wii Sports wasn't their only crazily-good selling game.
 

Bowserlick

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Guys, take into consideration, yes, Wii Sports sold crazy good. But it was bundled with the Wii. They could have taken any game, good or not, and bundled it with the Wii, it would have sold just as well because the Wii itself sold like hotcakes. It's common sense.


See what I said above in regards to the sales.

Miis aren't the face of Wii Sports, the sports are, people never bought any games with Miis in them because Miis were in them, they bought them because of what the games were. That's like saying the average shmuck buys CoD because of the generic soldier on the box, and not because they love shooting anything that moves and cursing people out over mics.
Just like the Mario sprite could have been different and people would still like the addicting side scrolling game that he starred in?

And yes, the Mii is quite literally the face of Wii Sports. You can even customize the damn face.
 
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Kenith

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Miis are most definitely Nintendo All-Stars, whether we like it or not.


The fact as to how the Miis got themselves into millions of homes probably won't be as important to Sakurai as the fact that they did get themselves into millions of homes. Not to mention Wii Sports wasn't their only crazily-good selling game.
But none of their games' success was because of them or a result of having them. You have to make a Mii for playing those games, it's mandatory.

Wii Fit sold well because it was a fitness game, so it was perfect for greasy Americans. Wii Sports sold well because of the new motion controls.

Also, how would palette swaps work for Miis?
 

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Well known =/= iconic or popular. Link has been around for far longer while Miis are only things that Nintendo shoved onto the Wii, then 3DS, then the Wii U. That's like calling Windows 8 popular, iconic, and important. It comes included with newer computers, you're forced to use it, but nobody likes it besides the rare few. I don't get how you think they're important either, they never even did anything, like I said, they just come with the thing and don't actually do anything worthwhile.
The Wii games are some of the best selling games of all time. I won't include Wii Sports because it came with the console, but all those other games were entirely optional and they sold millions! They are most certainly popular.
 

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Guys, take into consideration, yes, Wii Sports sold crazy good. But it was bundled with the Wii. They could have taken any game, good or not, and bundled it with the Wii, it would have sold just as well because the Wii itself sold like hotcakes. It's common sense.


See what I said above in regards to the sales.

Miis aren't the face of Wii Sports, the sports are, people never bought any games with Miis in them because Miis were in them, they bought them because of what the games were. That's like saying the average shmuck buys CoD because of the generic soldier on the box, and not because they love shooting anything that moves and cursing people out over mics.
Sounds like someone is in denial... face it, Miis are Nintendo All-Stars... they have earned that title just like Mario, Link, and Pikachu did a long time ago... it is better to accept that fact than to fight it only to get butthurt over and over again every time Nintendo makes a new Mii-based game.... unless you are a masochist...
 

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Miis are most definitely Nintendo All-Stars, whether we like it or not.

The fact as to how the Miis got themselves into millions of homes probably won't be as important to Sakurai as the fact that they did get themselves into millions of homes. Not to mention Wii Sports wasn't their only crazily-good selling game.
That really depends on your definition of "all-stars." Like I said above, Miis didn't sell the games, what the games were sold the games.

Just like the Mario sprite could have been different and people would still like the addicting side scrolling game that he stars in?

And yes, the Mii is quite literally the face of Wii Sports. You can even customize the damn face.
Are you forgetting that Mario is Nintendo's mascot?

Except they aren't the face of the game. Name me one person who said "I have to buy this because Miis are in it" instead of "Oh cool, I like sports games and this has motion control." It's nothing against Miis, it's just not a fact that they are the face of their games or even important at all. Let's say, Space Invaders. Is the little ship you play as to shoot the enemies the iconic part of the game? No, the enemies are. Being the player character doesn't make something instantly iconic.

The Wii games are some of the best selling games of all time. I won't include Wii Sports because it came with the console, but all those other games were entirely optional and they sold millions! They are most certainly popular.
Yes, they sold well, but see my multiple points above. Miis did not sell the games, they sold because the general public likes easy sports games.

Sounds like someone is in denial... face it, Miis are Nintendo All-Stars... they have earned that title just like Mario, Link, and Pikachu did a long time ago... it is better to accept that fact than to fight it only to get butthurt over and over again every time Nintendo makes a new Mii-based game.... unless you are a masochist...
There's a difference between denial and common sense. And where exactly do you see butthurt? Do you really think I would be upset over something so trivial as Miis getting in the game?
 
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Bowserlick

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Are you forgetting that Mario is Nintendo's mascot?
Do you not get the point?

Mario is Nintendo's mascot because that was the sprite and named created for the guy you are forced to play as. The game itself is the part that really drew people as you are arguing that the sports drew people and not the Mii's.
 

Elextrix

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Personally, I wouldn't actually mind if Miss were playable characters, just because of the potential they have for their movesets. Plus if people don't like the concept of playing against custom Miis (online or offline), I feel like it'd be a good idea to have an option where they can choose whether to play against "Guest" Miis (those six pre-set Miis that appear in every game that features Miis), "Custom" Miis (Miis created/downloaded by the user) or both.

Plus from the link given by KenithTheGatherer, it does show that the Wii franchise is very popular amongst gamers, regardless of the reason.
 

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But none of their games' success was because of them or a result of having them. You have to make a Mii for playing those games, it's mandatory.
That is not true... I never created a Mii in my old Wii... and I still could play Wii Sports... why? Because there are already default Miis available when you start the game.
 
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N3ON

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But none of their games' success was because of them or a result of having them. You have to make a Mii for playing those games, it's mandatory.
And you have to play as Mario in lots of Mario games, that doesn't mean Mario still doesn't move units. What if some people buy the game because *gasp* they want to play as their Mii?

It's quite the statement that no game starring Miis had its success partially due to the Miis. An untrue statement. Sure, at the beginning they weren't the draw of their games... but eventually they definitely became the draw for many, people recognize them, people become familiar with them, and then people pick up products with them on it due to that brand/character recognition. It's how marketing works, why do you think Miis were added to the Pilotwings series, to Mario Kart? People like playing as their Miis. Not all people, but a lot do. Even if it's because Nintendo originally shoved them down peoples' throats.

Wii Fit sold well because it was a fitness game, so it was perfect for greasy Americans. Wii Sports sold well because of the new motion controls.
I forgot that Miis have only been in two games. :rolleyes:

If people hated the Miis Nintendo would've dropped them after the Wii, they're not going to bother implementing a feature people avoided on not one but two following systems. People liked the Miis overall. They proved to be a success.

Also, how would palette swaps work for Miis?
Uh, their shirts?
 

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I feel as though a lot of the Wii games were sports and mini games, there is no story or goal to obtain, which is why our Mii avatars are used instead of a protagonist. However, in Smash Bros, there are plenty of avatars to choose from already, which is why Miis are unnecessary.
 

pikachugamer21

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Do you not get the point?

Mario is Nintendo's mascot because that was the sprite and named created for the guy you are forced to play as. The game itself is the part that really drew people as you are arguing that the sports drew people and not the Mii's.
Maybe once the Miis star in a game that is on par with Super Mario Galaxy or Super Mario Bros. 3 then I will consider them on Marios level of iconicness
 

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Oooh look, a Mii discussion.
I'm in!

Plus from the link given by KenithTheGatherer, it does show that the Wii franchise is very popular amongst gamers, regardless of the reason.
The Wii franchise isn't popular?
Last time I checked, it is thh best-selling video game of all time.

If you mean just hardcore gamers, that doesn't really matter.
Wii Fit was really only popular amongst fat people, and skinny people that think they are fat.
And people like me who buy it for the sole purpose of owning a successful Nintendo game?

That is not true... I never created a Mii in my old Wii... and I still could play Wii Sports... why? Because there are already default Miis available when you start the game.
But you are still playing as the concept of a Mii.
 

Staarih

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There's no doubt that the Mii is a major milestone for Nintendo - whether or not the character will be dropped at some point, it will still be recognized as quite a Nintendo star in the future, sort of like the very old retro's are for us now (or the likes of R.O.B. who had a major impact in Nintendo history). The Mii's DO have the merit of being in Smash 4 just because of how iconic they are, I don't see any negatives in that. It's just the WAY they would be portrayed in the game that might be arguable. Some like the customization aspect, others don't (like myself). I wouldn't mind seeing Mii in Smash 4 if it's done right.
 
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Freduardo

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Mii is an all star, and the most deserving one.

Pit didn't beat Medusa in Kid Icarus on the nes, me spending hours of childhood on it did. Who's the real all star?

I actually love the idea of mii just using Nintendo peripherals to attack. Side b power glove
B NES zapper
Down b power pad
Up b balance board.

But ultimately, and I've said it before, what will sell me on the mii is if his fighting style is semi customizable. Many fighting games have character creation (soul calibur 3 had an awesome one! And 4's is alright. Def Jam fight for NY had one of my favorites) and a quality character creator using the mii may very well only make an already deep game infinitely deeper. Also a customizable character can finally free Mario up from having to be the root of balanced stats.
 

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I feel as though a lot of the Wii games were sports and mini games, there is no story or goal to obtain, which is why our Mii avatars are used instead of a protagonist. However, in Smash Bros, there are plenty of avatars to choose from already, which is why Miis are unnecessary.
No story or goal? The goal of Wii Sports is to win... the goal of Wii Fit is to get fit.

Plenty of avatars? There's only Villager... but who else are you referring to?

Sakurai stopped caring about adding only characters from character-driven series after Brawl... that's why he added Villager and Wii Fit Trainer...
 

N3ON

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That really depends on your definition of "all-stars." Like I said above, Miis didn't sell the games, what the games were sold the games.
And Peach didn't sell her games, Mario did. People seem to think she's an All-Star.

Miis sell games, they are very recognizable characters at this point. Maybe they didn't at the beginning, but what unknown characters are going to sell their first game? What characters are going to sell a game when the main thing marketed is a peripheral? That's when other factors sell their games anyway.

You think randomly pressing buttons on the Wiimote and waving your arms around like an idiot caused two million units of Wii Music sold? Ofc not, it was the brand and character recognition the Wii name and the Miis provided, not what the game was, because the game was awful.
 

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I feel as though a lot of the Wii games were sports and mini games, there is no story or goal to obtain, which is why our Mii avatars are used instead of a protagonist. However, in Smash Bros, there are plenty of avatars to choose from already, which is why Miis are unnecessary.
Too many avatar characters is becoming the new too many swordsmen....
 

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And you have to play as Mario in lots of Mario games, that doesn't mean Mario still doesn't move units. What if some people buy the game because *gasp* they want to play as their Mii?
It's quite the statement that no game starring Miis had its success partially due to the Miis. An untrue statement. Sure, at the beginning they weren't the draw of their games... but eventually they definitely became the draw for many, people recognize them, people become familiar with them, and then people pick up products with them on it due to that brand/character recognition. It's how marketing works, why do you think Miis were added to the Pilotwings series, to Mario Kart? People like playing as their Miis. Not all people, but a lot do. Even if it's because Nintendo originally shoved them down peoples' throats.

Miis are often ways to put the player in the game when there isn't a protagonist or avatar. In Smash Bros, there are many such characters, rendering them pointless sans representing the player into the game and representing the Wii series's success, both of which are fulfilled with Villager and Wii Fit Trainer, respectively.

Uh, their shirts?
The specific colours of those shirts are one of the defining features of Miis (one of their only features I might add)
Don't they represent the player's favorite colour?
 

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Too many? As far as I know, there's only one... the Villager... who else are avatars in Smash?
No one.

It's a shallow viewpoint that ignores most of what makes a character.

Just like the too many swordsmen argument.
 

?????????????

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Miis are Nintendo characters. Even if the wording is different, this argument is the same as arguments against Villager, FE Avatar, and it even reminds me of arguments against Toon Link (e.g. he's just another Link, unneccessary). It's a game for Nintendo icons? Miis are Nintendo icons.

Even if I personally don't care for playable Miis in SSB4, and I don't, their validity is unquestionable.
 
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Do you not get the point?

Mario is Nintendo's mascot because that was the sprite and named created for the guy you are forced to play as. The game itself is the part that really drew people as you are arguing that the sports drew people and not the Mii's.
Except Mario is the first thing you think of when someone brings up Mario, his name is kind of in the title. What's the first thing you think of when you hear Wii Sports? Sports. Over time, Mario became a well liked character in a series of games that were fun, yes, you could apply this to the Miis, but everyone here is saying that Miis are inevitable because they are already said, iconic characters. They aren't iconic though, the only reason you all instantly think of Miis is because "That bro got four characters out of six right so far, and there's no way he could have guessed the Wii Fit Trainer, prepare yourselves for Miis!" Yes, as Neon said, maybe some people picked up the games because of Miis, but are you both really going to argue that the minority who bought it because of that reason mean that Miis are iconic? If that's the case, then Geno must be super iconic because he had a small cult following. Then again, apples and oranges. Ask the average Joe who's played Wii Sports what he remembered the most from it, do you honestly think he'll say "Well the Miis of course!" if anything, he'll say something about the motion controls.

And Peach didn't sell her games, Mario did. People seem to think she's an All-Star.

Miis sell games, they are very recognizable characters at this point. Maybe they didn't at the beginning, but what unknown characters are going to sell their first game? What characters are going to sell a game when the main thing marketed is a peripheral? That's when other factors sell their games anyway.

You think randomly pressing buttons on the Wiimote and waving your arms around like an idiot caused two million units of Wii Music sold? Ofc not, it was the brand and character recognition the Wii name and the Miis provided, not what the game was, because the game was awful.
Again, apples to oranges. The majority of people who buy those games don't care who or what they're playing as, they did actually buy those games because they could wave their arms around like idiots, that was one of the major points of the commercials. Do you think old people, parents, and casuals in general are just going to buy a game because they like Miis? Or because they can go bowling in their living room? The same applies to Wii Music, people wanted to make music.
 

Elextrix

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Oooh look, a Mii discussion.
The Wii franchise isn't popular?
Last time I checked, it is thh best-selling video game of all time.

If you mean just hardcore gamers, that doesn't really matter.
Wii Fit was really only popular amongst fat people, and skinny people that think they are fat.
And people like me who buy it for the sole purpose of owning a successful Nintendo game?
No, I agree. My point was that the Wii franchise (or the Wii Sports/Wii Play franchise) is popular, especially in comparison to other franchises that already have representatives for the upcoming Smash Bros game (Wii Fit, Animal Crossing, etc.), hence why I feel Miis are pretty deserving of their spots.
 

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Too many? As far as I know, there's only one... the Villager... who else are avatars in Smash?
All of them, because they represent the player. I'm using "avatar" literally.
When you select a character to play as in Smash Bros, YOU are selecting the character, you control them, it is you.
So in a sense, every playable character is an avatar.

I'm not saying every character is a generic avatar like Villager or The Tactician.
 
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?????????????

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Except Mario is the first thing you think of when someone brings up Mario, his name is kind of in the title. What's the first thing you think of when you hear Wii Sports? Sports. Over time, Mario became a well liked character in a series of games that were fun, yes, you could apply this to the Miis, but everyone here is saying that Miis are inevitable because they are already said, iconic characters. They aren't iconic though, the only reason you all instantly think of Miis is because "That bro got four characters out of six right so far, and there's no way he could have guessed the Wii Fit Trainer, prepare yourselves for Miis!" Yes, as Neon said, maybe some people picked up the games because of Miis, but are you both really going to argue that the minority who bought it because of that reason mean that Miis are iconic? If that's the case, then Geno must be super iconic because he had a small cult following. Then again, apples and oranges. Ask the average Joe who's played Wii Sports what he remembered the most from it, do you honestly think he'll say "Well the Miis of course!" if anything, he'll say something about the motion controls.


Again, apples to oranges. The majority of people who buy those games don't care who or what they're playing as, they did actually buy those games because they could wave their arms around like idiots, that was one of the major points of the commercials. Do you think old people, parents, and casuals in general are just going to buy a game because they like Miis? Or because they can go bowling in their living room? The same applies to Wii Music, people wanted to make music.
Doesn't the existence of the Wii Fit Trainer in SSB4 counter this entire statement?
 

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Yeah, when I thought of Wii Fit before the trainer was confirmed, I just thought of an average woman in a pose on a Balance Board. :p

No, if anything it helps it.
The Wii Fit Trainer represents the Wii and Wii U's success, rendering one of the biggest reasons for including Miis accounted for.
The Miis better represent the Wii, doesn't really matter if they were bundled at all. It was to introduce the motion controls.
 
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N3ON

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The specific colours of those shirts are one of the defining features of Miis (one of their only features I might add)
Don't they represent the player's favorite colour?
Yeah it's a real shame we can't change Mario's colour scheme past his defining Red/Blue.

The Miis have had their shirt colours changed when necessary since Wii Sports, if you think their inclusion in Smash is going to boil down to that... that's kind of grasping at straws, isn't it?
 

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The same applies to Wii Music, people wanted to make music.
Yes... and yet the gameplay was terrible... so Wii Music is not successful... despite having Miis in...

Also.. Mario Pinball Land had terrible ball physics... so it was not successful... despite having Mario characters in...
 

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Miis? No thanks. Make them have a role that isn't playable character for all I care.
 

?????????????

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This entire argument is flawed in my opinon; because Wii Sports and it's success is connected to a character, the Miis, the Miis are highly valid.

I would say that more people play Mario for the gameplay than the character himself. Wouldn't you agree? So, hypothetically, if "Mario" was never created, but instead Nintendo released a game of the same exact style and gameplay starring a character named Giuseppie, you can bet that Gieuseppie would be playable in SSB.

Or if Ash started with a Clefairy instead of a Pikachu in the anime, Clefairy would be playable in SSB.

The characters are as much a representative of the medium/game they come from as they are characters themselves. That's always been my opinion, anyway.
 
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This is from Brawl Dojo on the All-Star Mode update... at the end, Sakurai said this:

It’s an incredible number of characters and a group of really well-known series. And to think that they all had their beginnings in Japan...wow!

When they’re all lined up like this, it becomes obvious that there is roughly 6-year blank before and after Pikmin. While there have been big series since then like "Animal Crossing," "Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day," and "Wii Sports" it does seem that coming up with a completely new character-driven series has gotten more difficult recently.
It seems to me that Sakurai is starting to include characters from casual franchises with nameless/generic avatars/characters instead of adding only characters from character-driven series... Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are not from character-driven series... who else are from major casual series? The Miis from Wii Sports...
 
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Yeah it's a real shame we can't change Mario's colour scheme past his defining Red/Blue.
The Miis have had their shirt colours changed when necessary since Wii Sports, if you think their inclusion in Smash is going to boil down to that... that's kind of grasping at straws, isn't it?
Sass.

I can see that I was mistaken on that, but everything else I stand by.

Yeah, when I thought of Wii Fit before the trainer was confirmed, I just thought of an average woman in a pose on a Balance Board. :p

The Miis better represent the Wii, doesn't really matter if they were bundled at all. It was to introduce the motion controls.
Wii Fit was really successful, and Wii Fit Trainer brings a new unique playstyle to Smash Bros...entirely yoga poses.

What do Miis bring to the game itself? Sports equipment? My own face? No thank you.
 

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You actually countered your own point, since Sakurai added her because no one ever asked for her, not because she was iconic.
Only because people were so focused on the playable Miis that they ignored their non-playable fitness instructors... so there were people asking for Miis for a long time...
 
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N3ON

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Again, apples to oranges. The majority of people who buy those games don't care who or what they're playing as, they did actually buy those games because they could wave their arms around like idiots, that was one of the major points of the commercials.
There were already a plethora of titles for the Wii where the motion controls amounted to no more than random shakes of the Wiimote, yet very few of those sold nearly the levels that Wii Music did. Without the Wii name and the Mii characters, that game would be no more than a blip on the radar. Ofc it was the established elements from prior games that moved units for Wii Music, if people simply bought it to wave their arms around like idiots, there would be many many many more multi-million selling Wii titles.

Do you think old people, parents, and casuals in general are just going to buy a game because they like Miis? Or because they can go bowling in their living room? The same applies to Wii Music, people wanted to make music.
To the former, yes. To the latter, yes. However, you overestimate many casuals. Many casuals don't know what the game they've purchased is composed of past the title of the game and the boxart. This is where brand recognition comes into play. They pick up a Wii, they play Wii Sports, and they become attuned to the Wii brand and the Miis, and that's what they look for in future purchases. If people wanted to make music, there are a number of better games to do that than Wii Music, yet Wii Music is the one with the recognizable brand. I bet many casuals didn't even fully know what games like Wii Play and Wii Party were comprised of prior to purchasing them, yet they both sold into the millions, largely because of their brand.

The Miis are Nintendo All-Stars. You might disagree, even if I disagreed it wouldn't matter. Because that's clearly how Nintendo treats them, and I see no reason why Sakurai wouldn't.
 

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This is from Brawl Dojo on the All-Star Mode update... at the end, Sakurai said this:
It seems to me that Sakurai is starting to include characters from casual franchises with nameless/generic avatars/characters instead of adding only characters from character-driven series... Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are not from character-driven series... who else are from major casual series? The Miis from Wii Sports...
Actually, that seems to be imply the exact opposite.
 
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