Character Discussion Thread

[loganhogan]

Villains are always a central part of any game series. They're just as important as the main characters you play as, so they deserve to be represented as well in Smash. It would be so lame seeing just a bunch of do-gooders on the Smash 4 roster. It needs some EVIL

That's what smash run bosses are for.

Does the mini kangaroo even exist?

 

[sandslash]

I agree with what someone else said that if you add characters not from games you start have to start wth mickey also the ninja turtles. But at the same time this does make it where every characters is open and its too hard to come up with a good line up. Think of how many characters we all want now with just a few third party and nintendo if we included anime and other cartoon characters would get way too crazy. Team rocket to me however is still ok its part of the pokemon franchise that we already have in the game doesnt matter if they are more known from the anime.

 

[Masonomace]

If Ubisoft added a character and it wasn't Rayman, who else would it be?

Most likely a character from this.

<3

I thought you might be turned off by the inclusion of so many monsters from the same generation. Glad to hear you feel the opposite. It's really not so crazy when you think about it. In Brawl, we had a total of 5 generation 1 Pokemon. ^_^

It's fine hotness, Brawl did have 5 Gen 1 pokemon, which Sm4sh as a sequal will clearly follow the footsteps of over-use of generation pokmon & have 4 Gen 2 for it's alck of love, being overshadowed for 10+ years. When you gave a realistic objective standpoint, then make a subjective change, I can easily listen to your request & reply to it with passion.
Also is there a support list for Krystal? I need to go there & support for you in Sm4sh.

Edit: Going the extra uneccessary mile, so Instead of Mewtwo being in Sm4sh, & Meowth's pokeball summon, we need Meowth for DLC to replace Pikachu to represent Team Rocket.

 

[Doompatron3000]

Brawl did have 5 Gen 1 pokemon, which Sm4sh as a sequal will clearly follow the footsteps of over-use of generation pokmon & have 4 Gen 2 for it's lack of love, being overshadowed for 10+ years.

Gen 2 has a "lack of love"? I must've imagine Pichu in Melee then....

 

[Masonomace]

Gen 2 has a "lack of love"? I must've imagine Pichu in Melee then....

When you say Pichu in Melee, I say a clone pokemon that was casual, handicapped, playable in that game for the sole reason of adding more character slots, & only a short pokemon movie about Pikachu & Pichu with Entei's movie. Gen 2 fully represented by a cute, yet horrible pokemon originating as the only Gen 2 playable pokemon ever. I consider that a 100% joke. Sry but ty.

 

[~Krystal~]

Also is there a support list for Krystal? I need to go there & support for you in Sm4sh.

Sadly, there is no supporters list this time. Regardless, as a fellow fan, your enthusiasm is appreciated. =P

Gen 2 has a "lack of love"? I must've imagine Pichu in Melee then....

Comparatively speaking, Gen 2 doesn't get that much consideration. Pichu was a mere clone selection in Melee, albeit a very popular character at the time. You could have added Feraligatr or Typhlosion. Few would have complained.

edit: Masonomace beat me to the punch. Ninja'd again...

 

[Burruni]

As a Pokémon fan from Kanto to Kalos, here is what I have to say about the gens in Smash.
1) Many reps and some staples in the more recent Pokéball pools. The roots of the series and the base for it all.
2) Was basically the other half of Gen 1. All Kanto Pokémon were still just as valid in the main games, got 1 rep and a high percentage of the 100 Pokémon added in through the Pokéballs.
3) Not as many added Pokéball selection as Gen 2, no rep. (Sceptile for Sm4sh?)
4) Lucario as a rep, Spear Pillar in Brawl, a good number of big Pokémon in Pokéballs, and was a bit lackluster in the games.
5) Very polarizing to the franchise, no rep, but appears to be getting a stage (N's castle), and a good bit of love from Pokéball pool.
6) Lowest additions to the Dex, Greninja and 2 known MegaEvolutions in fighters, and a handful in the Pokéball pool. Prism Tower and Pokémon League stages.
IMO, Gen 1, 2, 4, and 6 have/had plenty of love. Gen 5 may from the full Pokéball pool, and Gen 3 I still hope for Sceptile, on disc or DLC.

 

[Protom]

on disc or DLC.

For a second there I didn't notice the 'or' and imagined sakurai pulling a Street Fighter X Tekken.
Wouldn't that be lovely

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

If Ubisoft added a character and it wasn't Rayman, who else would it be?

A Rabbid.

 

[Espio264]

I still hope for Sceptile, on disc or DLC.

DLC is his ONLY shot.

Not trying to be a jerk. I've really done a lot of thinking on this. But the man himself said that "all characters were decided prior to development" - you know, more or less that. And that also, "a spot was left for an XY pokemon." They went into their search looking for a character they thought looked cool/fun, had moveset potential and would hopefully become popular on its own before Smash. They had no idea they'd be choosing the water starter, so the idea of rounding out the type trio is strictly fan speculated and probably never ran across the development team's minds.

Ivysaur is your only hope. As it should be.

 

[Doompatron3000]

When you say Pichu in Melee, I say a clone pokemon that was casual, handicapped, playable in that game for the sole reason of adding more character slots, & only a short pokemon movie about Pikachu & Pichu with Entei's movie. Gen 2 fully represented by a cute, yet horrible pokemon originating as the only Gen 2 playable pokemon ever. I consider that a 100% joke. Sry but ty.

Still better than Gen 3 or 5. Gen 3 has a slight chance thanks to the remakes, but, Gen 5 has probably zero percent chance of getting a rep.

 

[dezeray112]

I still hope for Sceptile, on disc or DLC.

If anything, I'd put Sceptile as a candidate for DLC.

 

[Masonomace]

DLC is his ONLY shot.

Not trying to be a jerk. I've really done a lot of thinking on this. But the man himself said that "all characters were decided prior to development" - you know, more or less that. And that also, "a spot was left for an XY pokemon." They went into their search looking for a character they thought looked cool/fun, had moveset potential and would hopefully become popular on its own before Smash. They had no idea they'd be choosing the water starter, so the idea of rounding out the type trio is strictly fan speculated and probably never ran across the development team's minds.

Ivysaur is your only hope. As it should be.

Your post didn't come off as beef jerky, but let me quote this specifically:

a spot was left for an XY pokemon.

A, spot. Not THEE ONLY spot, just a spot. But your post about the TypeTrioTriefecta probably never being an idea, is also speculation.

Still better than Gen 3 or 5. Gen 3 has a slight chance thanks to the remakes, but, Gen 5 has probably zero percent chance of getting a rep.

Indeed, Pichu did well on his / her own to be a playable character for Gen 2. Gen. 5 is getting some stage love though, leaving Gen. 3 with only 7 confirmed pokeball summons. Even Gen. 2 with it's high amount of Pokeball summons, & Gen. 5 with it's newcoming pokeball count, it's more addition than Gen. 3, which makes me sad.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I think Pokemon Alpha Ruby and Omega Sapphire may have started developement right after Black and White 2 came out, since Nintendo was working on X and Y during Black and White's time frame.

 

[ZecaOMestre]

Still better than Gen 3 or 5. Gen 3 has a slight chance thanks to the remakes, but, Gen 5 has probably zero percent chance of getting a rep.

The only viable option Gen V had was Zoroark, but I think he was deconfirmed. Still, I hope we can get N as a playable character (not like PT, N himself battling), but I know that's almost impossible

 

[Autumn ♫]

The only viable option Gen V had was Zoroark, but I think he was deconfirmed. Still, I hope we can get N as a playable character (not like PT, N himself battling), but I know that's almost impossible

I believe Genesect hasn't been deconfirmed yet, has he?

 

[ZecaOMestre]

I believe Genesect hasn't been deconfirmed yet, has he?

I'm pretty sure it has also been confirmed to be a Pokeball, I could be wrong though

 

[Doompatron3000]

The only viable option Gen V had was Zoroark, but I think he was deconfirmed. Still, I hope we can get N as a playable character (not like PT, N himself battling), but I know that's almost impossible

How would N battle? No human fights in the Pokemon world, so unless he was like a Captain Olimar, I don't see N as a playable character.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I'm pretty sure it has also been confirmed to be a Pokeball, I could be wrong though

Oh yeah, he is. Just looked it up.

 

[ZecaOMestre]

How would N battle? No human fights in the Pokemon world, so unless he was like a Captain Olimar, I don't see N as a playable character.

I imagined as if you controlled him and he would send out Pokémon to use his moves. Like, his Up+B he could mount a Archeops, Side+B he could send a Klingklang as a projectile, something along these lines. Also, his FS would be summoning either Reshiram or Zekrom and recking some **** (but this has alredy been deconfirmed by N's Castle).

 

[Masonomace]

I believe Genesect hasn't been deconfirmed yet, has he?

I'm pretty sure it has also been confirmed to be a Pokeball, I could be wrong though

Technically Zoroark has not been de-confirmed as playable, despite being in the Pokeball portion of the Greninja Trailer. Abomasnow wasn't in the trailer but is confirmed for some reason. It could be just a matter of time before Zoroark is confirmed a pokeball.

Edit: Btw that's a hyperlink above. I don't usually type any other color but green.

 

[Espio264]

A, spot. Not THEE ONLY spot, just a spot. But your post about the TypeTrioTriefecta probably never being an idea, is also speculation.

We're both speculating. Points offset.

But now, facts: Sceptile's support before Greninja was revealed was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than it is now.

Mewtwo's support before Greninja's reveal was among the most wanted, if not THE most wanted.

And yes, I'll speculate further, but in an educated manner: Past the four Pokemon we have now, priority probably goes to Jiggs then Mewtwo then Ivysaur/Squirtle then "hey let's add another one!" If they were sooooooo sure they wanted Sceptile, would they not have likely shown him to us instead, being so confident in him, than the "XY somebody we hope they're gonna like".

Sceptile is like Ghirahim, Waddle Dee, Dark Pit and Chrom. A character people think is likely based on patterns that aren't actually patterns. In the end it comes down to: I'm not Sakurai, you're not Sakurai, therefore we're both wrong.

 

[Scamper52596]

Sceptile is like Ghirahim, Waddle Dee, Dark Pit and Chrom. A character people think is likely based on patterns that aren't actually patterns. In the end it comes down to: I'm not Sakurai, you're not Sakurai, therefore we're both wrong.

This is one of the best analogies I've read on this site.

 

[mark welford]

I keep trying to tell these people sakurai is a unpredictable mad genius of sorts it is mostly because of him that smash exists today I said it before I say it again if your can read his movements you are a non-human being

 

[BillE]

I keep trying to tell these people sakurai is a unpredictable mad genius of sorts it is mostly because of him that smash exists today I said it before I say it again if your can read his movements you are a non-human being

This is why I try not to predict but just read what other people think, and make rosters on what I would want.

 

[Second Power]

Sceptile is like Ghirahim, Waddle Dee, Dark Pit and Chrom. A character people think is likely based on patterns that aren't actually patterns. In the end it comes down to: I'm not Sakurai, you're not Sakurai, therefore we're both wrong.

What patterns (other than Chrom) are you referring to?

 

[mark welford]

What patterns (other than Chrom) are you referring to?

just leave patterns alone refer to my 2nd recent post on this thread because you cant read sakurai as a human being

 

[CJ Falcon]

We're both speculating. Points offset.

But now, facts: Sceptile's support before Greninja was revealed was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than it is now.

Mewtwo's support before Greninja's reveal was among the most wanted, if not THE most wanted.

And yes, I'll speculate further, but in an educated manner: Past the four Pokemon we have now, priority probably goes to Jiggs then Mewtwo then Ivysaur/Squirtle then "hey let's add another one!" If they were sooooooo sure they wanted Sceptile, would they not have likely shown him to us instead, being so confident in him, than the "XY somebody we hope they're gonna like".

Sceptile is like Ghirahim, Waddle Dee, Dark Pit and Chrom. A character people think is likely based on patterns that aren't actually patterns. In the end it comes down to: I'm not Sakurai, you're not Sakurai, therefore we're both wrong.

 

[ChaosNeo45]

Please for the love of god Sakurai add K.rool already lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5b1RVqd43k

He has a ton of great things going for him. And a movesets already made for him!!

 

[Autumn ♫]

Please for the love of god Sakurai add K.rool already lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5b1RVqd43k

He has a ton of great things going for him. And a movesets already made for him!!

Nah, we need Vaati more.

 

[Masonomace]

We're both speculating. Points offset.

But now, facts: Sceptile's support before Greninja was revealed was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than it is now.

Mewtwo's support before Greninja's reveal was among the most wanted, if not THE most wanted.

And yes, I'll speculate further, but in an educated manner: Past the four Pokemon we have now, priority probably goes to Jiggs then Mewtwo then Ivysaur/Squirtle then "hey let's add another one!" If they were sooooooo sure they wanted Sceptile, would they not have likely shown him to us instead, being so confident in him, than the "XY somebody we hope they're gonna like".

Sceptile is like Ghirahim, Waddle Dee, Dark Pit and Chrom. A character people think is likely based on patterns that aren't actually patterns. In the end it comes down to: I'm not Sakurai, you're not Sakurai, therefore we're both wrong.

My post about replying your quote being, "a spot =/= the only spot" wasn't speculation. Ultimately our post points go down to both offsetting each other anyway.

I can agree with you that my support for Sceptile wasn't as demanding before Greninja's trailer. But for me, it has to go deeper than that because of Ivysaur, Squirtle, Purin, & Mewtwo all MIA. In my subjective opinion, A Grass type or just Ivysaur's support, was the same if not ever more higher than Greninja's trailer because of finally getting that Grass type appreciation in Brawl, do I support the idea of a Grass type to return to Sm4sh. Sceptile is a great Grass Pkmn candidate for that support is all, & when mostly Sceptile is shouted out for the Grass possibility, it means his popularity among the other Grass Starters shows he's got something worth having for Smash Bros.

I'd like to fix your quote to this, sry but ty:

Mewtwo's pokemon playable status support before Greninja's reveal was & still is the most wanted, period.

Gonna throw a speculation to mix in with yours:
Sakurai was recommended, or rather decided upon Greninja with all of the references, facts, & characteristics about him, developing him before X & Y, & showing him early now after the release of X & Y. The promotion lasts longer for X & Y continuing the marketing. ORAS in the makings being before X & Y's development (because it takes a long time to reboot a remake of the games) didn't get the early chance to show off said-Sceptile this year because it was be too early for the marketing towards ORAS this year, keeping him more hush-hush, holding onto him waiting until the time is right to show-case him around the same time ORAS is near it's open date of selling in retail. The closer said-Sceptile would be revealed to ORAS's date, the more booming popularity Sceptile would gain being marketed in Sm4sh & ORAS together.

I wish we were both Sakurai. Thanks for Posting

 

[CJ Falcon]

Nah, we need Vaati more.

 

[ChaosNeo45]

Nah, we need Vaati more.

I actually wouldn't mind Vaati at all

He's a villian
A dark transforming Wind Mage

Sounds Unique to me!

 

[Morbi]

As a Pokémon fan from Kanto to Kalos, here is what I have to say about the gens in Smash.
1) Many reps and some staples in the more recent Pokéball pools. The roots of the series and the base for it all.
2) Was basically the other half of Gen 1. All Kanto Pokémon were still just as valid in the main games, got 1 rep and a high percentage of the 100 Pokémon added in through the Pokéballs.
3) Not as many added Pokéball selection as Gen 2, no rep. (Sceptile for Sm4sh?)
4) Lucario as a rep, Spear Pillar in Brawl, a good number of big Pokémon in Pokéballs, and was a bit lackluster in the games.
5) Very polarizing to the franchise, no rep, but appears to be getting a stage (N's castle), and a good bit of love from Pokéball pool.
6) Lowest additions to the Dex, Greninja and 2 known MegaEvolutions in fighters, and a handful in the Pokéball pool. Prism Tower and Pokémon League stages.
IMO, Gen 1, 2, 4, and 6 have/had plenty of love. Gen 5 may from the full Pokéball pool, and Gen 3 I still hope for Sceptile, on disc or DLC.

There is not enough First Generation representation if you ask me.

Nah, we need Vaati more.

Nah, we need Dark Pit more.

just leave patterns alone refer to my 2nd recent post on this thread because you cant read sakurai as a human being

It is not impossible, you just have to speculate with the knowledge that he is going to attempt to be unpredictable... and avoid the bandwagon. If you do that, he is predictable for the most part. He has his moments and no doubt he is difficult to read, but it is certainly possible.

 

[Masonomace]

It is not impossible, you just have to speculate with the knowledge that he is going to attempt to be unpredictable... and avoid the bandwagon. If you do that, he is predictable for the most part. He has his moments and no doubt he is difficult to read, but it is certainly possible.

So what you're saying is,

Our MU vs. Sakurai is, do-able?! 30-70?!
Also I needed to say this for a while, but your past signatures were all radical, going back from Sub-Zero & Dudley, except that current signature of the guy creepily staring out of the corner of his eye to gaze upon the man's suave mane.

 

[GunGunW]

Nah, we need Vaati more.

I disagree; we absolutely need both.

 

[Espio264]

What patterns (other than Chrom) are you referring to?

- A lot of people's case for Ghirahim is the surplus of Skyward sword stuff already represented. Look how much good that did for Midna in Brawl. Also the "Direct, Trophy Quiz" theory.
- Waddle Dee has actual merits and reasoning for him, but a lot of people think "Sakurai bias" really amounts to another Kirby character.
- Dark Pit is skating around on the "prominently featured in a video" theory. He's a palette swap at best. Or at least only deserves to be such.
- and the TypeTrio thing is Smashboards groupthink. Ivysaur or bust. We've been given no tangible evidence from Sakurai himself to believe these characters are as "guaranteed" as some people think. This doesn't apply to characters like Ridley, Shulk or K. Rool that have non "well this happened before, so it'll happen again" speculation in their arguments.

My post about replying your quote being, "a spot =/= the only spot" wasn't speculation. Ultimately our post points go down to both offsetting each other anyway.

I can agree with you that my support for Sceptile wasn't as demanding before Greninja's trailer. But for me, it has to go deeper than that because of Ivysaur, Squirtle, Purin, & Mewtwo all MIA. In my subjective opinion, A Grass type or just Ivysaur's support, was the same if not ever more higher than Greninja's trailer because of finally getting that Grass type appreciation in Brawl, do I support the idea of a Grass type to return to Sm4sh. Sceptile is a great Grass Pkmn candidate for that support is all, & when mostly Sceptile is shouted out for the Grass possibility, it means his popularity among the other Grass Starters shows he's got something worth having for Smash Bros.

I'd like to fix your quote to this, sry but ty:


Gonna throw a speculation to mix in with yours:
Sakurai was recommended, or rather decided upon Greninja with all of the references, facts, & characteristics about him, developing him before X & Y, & showing him early now after the release of X & Y. The promotion lasts longer for X & Y continuing the marketing. ORAS in the makings being before X & Y's development (because it takes a long time to reboot a remake of the games) didn't get the early chance to show off said-Sceptile this year because it was be too early for the marketing towards ORAS this year, keeping him more hush-hush, holding onto him waiting until the time is right to show-case him around the same time ORAS is near it's open date of selling in retail. The closer said-Sceptile would be revealed to ORAS's date, the more booming popularity Sceptile would gain being marketed in Sm4sh & ORAS together.

I wish we were both Sakurai. Thanks for Posting

Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, Squirtle and Ivysaur outrank Sceptile because they were a REALITY at one point. Sceptile has never been anything more than HOPE. You can put a tangible value on those four, not an accurate one mind you, but they've got something to go on. You can't do more than speculate on Sceptile.

Your points about the Pokemon company's recommendations to Sakurai are all very likely, but they're still speculation. Same goes for ORAS. Who's to say they told him ANYTHING about these new games? He might have been able to infer they were coming eventually, but what all they entailed were none of his business. Who's to say he even gave a damn about the ORAS games anyway? Your thoughts on them wanting to use Sceptile to promote them, though they make sense, are still speculation. I mean, perhaps there's a FE game in the works that features Roy, do we need him back to promote said future game?

My point is, if ORAS is what makes Sceptile so much more likely, then we're getting Blaziken instead. I mean, the Pokemon Company couldn't wait for ORAS to show him to us in Mega form, he's clearly their pic for a 3rd generation rep. If it comes down to the PC making business decisions, that's it. If it comes down to Sakurai choosing who he wants... there'll be no 3rd Gen Pokemon. Hold out hope for Zoroark.

Why thank you, Dean. I enjoy your work as well. Let's get some pie sometime.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Am I the only one who would be completely fine with Pikachu, Greninja, Charizard, Lucario, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo being our Pokemon characters? 6 Pokemon to compare to a team in one of the games, and all of them are pretty damn unique and popular to boot.

Anyway, I might throw a post together on what we know about Snake at this point and why I think he shouldn't be counted out just yet. Maybe.

 

[ZecaOMestre]

Am I the only one who would be completely fine with Pikachu, Greninja, Charizard, Lucario, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo being our Pokemon characters? 6 Pokemon to compare to a team in one of the games, and all of them are pretty damn unique and popular to boot.

I would be completely fine with this. I would just be more fine if we have Sceptile

 

[Morbi]

- A lot of people's case for Ghirahim is the surplus of Skyward sword stuff already represented. Look how much good that did for Midna in Brawl. Also the "Direct, Trophy Quiz" theory.
- Waddle Dee has actual merits and reasoning for him, but a lot of people think "Sakurai bias" really amounts to another Kirby character.
- Dark Pit is skating around on the "prominently featured in a video" theory. He's a palette swap at best. Or at least only deserves to be such.
- and the TypeTrio thing is Smashboards groupthink. Ivysaur or bust. We've been given no tangible evidence from Sakurai himself to believe these characters are as "guaranteed" as some people think. This doesn't apply to characters like Ridley, Shulk or K. Rool that have non "well this happened before, so it'll happen again" speculation in their arguments.



Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, Squirtle and Ivysaur outrank Sceptile because they were a REALITY at one point. Sceptile has never been anything more than HOPE. You can put a tangible value on those four, not an accurate one mind you, but they've got something to go on. You can't do more than speculate on Sceptile.

Your points about the Pokemon company's recommendations to Sakurai are all very likely, but they're still speculation. Same goes for ORAS. Who's to say they told him ANYTHING about these new games? He might have been able to infer they were coming eventually, but what all they entailed were none of his business. Who's to say he even gave a damn about the ORAS games anyway? Your thoughts on them wanting to use Sceptile to promote them, though they make sense, are still speculation. I mean, perhaps there's a FE game in the works that features Roy, do we need him back to promote said future game?

My point is, if ORAS is what makes Sceptile so much more likely, then we're getting Blaziken instead. I mean, the Pokemon Company couldn't wait for ORAS to show him to us in Mega form, he's clearly their pic for a 3rd generation rep. If it comes down to the PC making business decisions, that's it. If it comes down to Sakurai choosing who he wants... there'll be no 3rd Gen Pokemon. Hold out hope for Zoroark.



Why thank you, Dean. I enjoy your work as well. Let's get some pie sometime.

Dark Pit also has Sakurai's assertions in his favor... but yeah, he is just skating around the "prominently featured in a video" theory that did not amount to much of his support, of course. I suppose these words do not exist because it is best to pretend that they do not exist, correct?
/violent sarcasm

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

Am I the only one who would be completely fine with Pikachu, Greninja, Charizard, Lucario, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo being our Pokemon characters? 6 Pokemon to compare to a team in one of the games, and all of them are pretty damn unique and popular to boot.

Anyway, I might throw a post together on what we know about Snake at this point and why I think he shouldn't be counted out just yet. Maybe.

I would also be completely and utterly content. In fact, that is what I want to happen.