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Opossum

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Interesting idea with the BPM concept. I also like how they are all very slightly placed behind one another to allow space efficiency.

I still think it's very unlikely, but seeing this concept has made me strike up some thought.
As well, I figured maybe to aid those who are less musically-inclined, a "Perfect!" system could be put in place. Like how Mac has the Power Meter, the Chorus Kids could have their "Perfect!" Meter near their name. It'd flash purple when they're being kept in rhythm, to aid the player in battle. It also adds a nice reference to their games.
 

Joe D.

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As well, I figured maybe to aid those who are less musically-inclined, a "Perfect!" system could be put in place. Like how Mac has the Power Meter, the Chorus Kids could have their "Perfect!" Meter near their name. It'd flash purple when they're being kept in rhythm, to aid the player in battle. It also adds a nice reference to their games.
I agree. It was something that should've been a part of DK's FS in Brawl, but now has been implemented to his move in Sm4sh. It would also be quite fitting to use that idea since it could also indicate how much damage the move will deal.
 

N3ON

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I can't get over how much I would rather have this Ganny in Smash than the one I assume we'll be getting. I know it's preemptive, but I can't imagine an implementation of the character I'd prefer more than a heavy dual-sword wielding tankish character with dark magic attacks thrown in.

Him being an afterthought in one game shouldn't condemn him to semi-clonage forever when he could be so much more interesting and unique...
 

Staarih

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Indeed, while Hyrule Warriors does seem like an awesome game, I don't want to resort to it when wanting to play as an enjoyable, fun and ideal Ganondorf. Here's hoping he'll get at least somewhat of a makeover in Smash 4.
 
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Morbi

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I can't get over how much I would rather have this Ganny in Smash than the one I assume we'll be getting. I know it's preemptive, but I can't imagine an implementation of the character I'd prefer more than a heavy dual-sword wielding tankish character with dark magic attacks thrown in.

Him being an afterthought in one game shouldn't condemn him to semi-clonage forever when he could be so much more interesting and unique...
I am always utterly conflicted in regards to Ganondorf discussion; on one hand, I do enjoy Ganondorf's interpretation in Smash and I do not mind clone characters; in fact, I advocate for them whenever possible. However, on the other, I am also a demented fan of his character from the source material, Legend of Zelda. As one of the most prominent Legend of Zelda characters and one of Nintendo's only notable antagonists, he is a very important character that deserves so much more. At the same time, there is the inevitable fear that any alterations to his character might result in me not wanting to main one of my favorite video-game characters any longer.

I suppose I will be content with whatever happens. I can always enjoy "Ganondorf" Ganon in Hyrule Warriors and enjoy "Falcondorf" Ganon in Smash. Albeit, I assume that a "Bowserfication" is the most ideal (as it satisfies both parties partially) and likely situation.
 
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I can't get over how much I would rather have this Ganny in Smash than the one I assume we'll be getting. I know it's preemptive, but I can't imagine an implementation of the character I'd prefer more than a heavy dual-sword wielding tankish character with dark magic attacks thrown in.

Him being an afterthought in one game shouldn't condemn him to semi-clonage forever when he could be so much more interesting and unique...
I know that Hyrule Warriors is simply a spin-off, but the game would at least give Ganondorf an opportunity to stop being a Captain Falcon wannabe.
 

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Clone characters are one thing when it's the only way they'd get in, or they don't have a whole lot to set them apart from the original moveset, but if Ganondorf hadn't been included in Melee he definitely would've received a wholly unique moveset in Brawl, so the fact that he'll likely be at least semi-cloned for a third time is rather disappointing considering how major, popular, and conducive to an original diverse moveset he is. It feels like the character is being wasted.

Someone like TL, who could be original, at least makes more sense and is understandable as a Link semi-clone, but Ganny and Captain Falcon? They should be unrelated, and Ganondorf should be unique. The need for a unique Ganondorf is much stronger than the need for a new Zelda character at this point.
 

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To start off, Ganondorf could be the tallest human fighter, being slightly taller than Rosalina; he surely looks to be quite tall. Next, he could receive a weight buff, becoming one of the heaviest fighters, while still being lighter than Bowser and Donkey Kong. Lastly, Ganondorf would be one of the slowest fighters (much like in Brawl), but to make up for his poor speed, he'd be very powerful, with a lot of his attacks delivering high knockback or good damage.

As for the moveset, a combination of his dark powers and swords would be one way to fix him up. Maybe make his swords a special move, so that his other attacks can focus more on his brute force.
 

HylianHeroBigBoss

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Like ive said in the past, as much as we all want ganondorf to be completely different to gain some much needed change. I still get the feeling sakurai is gonna end up just sticking to tradition for traditions sake again, which at this point would just be bonkers, but we can already see hints of it in some of the things weve gotten so far and the characters who havent changed a bit.
 

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To start off, Ganondorf could be the tallest human fighter, being slightly taller than Rosalina; he surely looks to be quite tall. Next, he could receive a weight buff, becoming one of the heaviest fighters, while still being lighter than Bowser and Donkey Kong. Lastly, Ganondorf would be one of the slowest fighters (much like in Melee and Brawl), but to make up for his poor speed, he'd be very powerful, with a lot of his attacks delivering high knockback or good damage.

As for the moveset, a combination of his dark powers and swords would be one way to fix him up. Maybe make his swords a special move, so that his other attacks can focus more on his brute force.
Or...we could just give him Snake's moves. Instead of grenades, it's just energy balls. Nothing could possibly go wrong with that....
 

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I am always utterly conflicted in regards to Ganondorf discussion; on one hand, I do enjoy Ganondorf's interpretation in Smash and I do not mind clone characters; in fact, I advocate for them whenever possible. However, on the other, I am also a demented fan of his character from the source material, Legend of Zelda. As one of the most prominent Legend of Zelda characters and one of Nintendo's only notable antagonists, he is a very important character that deserves so much more. At the same time, there is the inevitable fear that any alterations to his character might result in me not wanting to main one of my favorite video-game characters any longer.

I suppose I will be content with whatever happens. I can always enjoy "Ganondorf" Ganon in Hyrule Warriors and enjoy "Falcondorf" Ganon in Smash. Albeit, I assume that a "Bowserfication" is the most ideal (as it satisfies both parties partially) and likely situation.
You main Ganon as it is? That's pretty brutal.
 

~Krystal~

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Like ive said in the past, as much as we all want ganondorf to be completely different to gain some much needed change. I still get the feeling sakurai is gonna end up just sticking to tradition for traditions sake again, which at this point would just be bonkers, but we can already see hints of it in some of the things weve gotten so far and the characters who havent changed a bit.
Toon Link's reveal raised a red flag. All this time and not a change made to a character who clearly has potential to differentiate himself from the other Link. Even his FS remained the same. No Skull Hammer? No Deku Leaf? No Hyoi Pear? Disappointing.
 

Curious Villager

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It can't really be helped that most of Toon Link's more unique weaponry with the exception of the Skull Hammer. Isn't really all that useful against most opponents during combat, even in Wind Waker itself so I can forgive Sakurai for not risking botching Toon Link up and instead went over to Link instead and tried to work on him more (in my honest opinion at least, I think Link is the one who really needs more work done anyway).

But Ganondorf on the other hand, yeah I think they should do more with him really. He shouldn't really have been a Falcon clone in the first place.
 

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I personally cannot stand clones. I am still bitter that Toon Link was brought back without a single change to make him different from Link, and the fact that Lucina is a carbon copy of Marth does not help either. I pray to every god ever that Ganondorf gets some significant changes.
 

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You main Ganon as it is? That's pretty brutal.
I might enable the madness to consume every fiber of my being, but even I am not delusional enough to try and use him during competitive one versus one matches. I use him for Free For All matches, which is what I predominately play. You would be surprised at how viable he actually is. Albeit, Brawl's Ganondorf incarnation feels weak and weighed down compared to his Melee and Project M variants.

I personally cannot stand clones. I am still bitter that Toon Link was brought back without a single change to make him different from Link, and the fact that Lucina is a carbon copy of Marth does not help either. I pray to every god ever that Ganondorf gets some significant changes.
I feel the exact opposite. It is of my belief that clones are the most unique characters on the roster.
 

Gold_Jacobson

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So...

What characters were announced in relation to an anniversary or something?

We keep trying to make predictions on reveals based on these, but how many have that actually been the place?
 

ihskeyp

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I personally cannot stand clones. I am still bitter that Toon Link was brought back without a single change to make him different from Link, and the fact that Lucina is a carbon copy of Marth does not help either. I pray to every god ever that Ganondorf gets some significant changes.
Why hate clones? They take practically no time to develop, so they are quickly implemented and give fans a likelier chance of having their favorite character featured in the game. I understand hating why ganondorf is a clone, because truly he shouldn't be. But hating clones in general is strange to me.
 

Curious Villager

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So...

What characters were announced in relation to an anniversary or something?

We keep trying to make predictions on reveals based on these, but how many have that actually been the place?
The only character that got revealed during an anniversary (that Sakurai acknowledged at least as far as I know) was Lucario. Some say Peach, Little Mac and Captain Falcon as well I think but I'm not sure about those really....

:4greninja:'d
 
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Why hate clones? They take practically no time to develop, so they are quickly implemented and give fans a likelier chance of having their favorite character featured in the game. I understand hating why ganondorf is a clone, because truly he shouldn't be. But hating clones in general is strange to me.
To me it always felt like the made they characters they were clones of less unique by having them there. Original Link is now seen as the lesser version just because an alternative with opposite attributes that fair better exists, so he loses a bit of his luster as a stand alone character. I like seeing unique animations and moves that suit the characters as well, when one is just like the other it just isnt as exciting and no longer really is something that reflects that one character it was made for.
 

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Toon Link's reveal raised a red flag. All this time and not a change made to a character who clearly has potential to differentiate himself from the other Link. Even his FS remained the same. No Skull Hammer? No Deku Leaf? No Hyoi Pear? Disappointing.
I... don't get this argument? Toon Link makes sense as a clone. I don't give a **** about what he has available to use. He's just Link, that's it.

Ganondorf is the MAIN ANTAGONIST of the series and has plenty of boss battles to draw from. And not only is he a clone, but he's a clone of a character FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FRANCHISE.


Toon Link's "red flag" has nothing to do with Ganondorf at all. Toon Link would be on the low end of the spectrum for getting decloned, with Ganondorf being the #1 character who deserves to be completely decloned.
 

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Peach was revealed a day AFTER SMB anniversary
Hence, why I said that I'm not sure about those ones. I think the only one Sakurai actually intended for an anniversary was Lucario and the others where just conjecture as N3ON said. He hasn't really acknowledged a fair number of anniversaries already hence why I don't think he really follows them as much as he did for a number of upcoming game releases... (particularly Japanese ones)
 
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I... don't get this argument? Toon Link makes sense as a clone. I don't give a **** about what he has available to use. He's just Link, that's it.

Ganondorf is the MAIN ANTAGONIST of the series and has plenty of boss battles to draw from. And not only is he a clone, but he's a clone of a character FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FRANCHISE.


Toon Link's "red flag" has nothing to do with Ganondorf at all. Toon Link would be on the low end of the spectrum for getting decloned, with Ganondorf being the #1 character who deserves to be completely decloned.
Do you or do you not understand the argument? Toon Link makes as much "sense" as a clone as Ganondorf does; however, that is subjective.

Here is an example to better help you understand: Toon Link is the MAIN PROTAGONIST of the series and has plenty of games to draw from.
 

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Do you or do you not understand the argument? Toon Link makes as much "sense" as a clone as Ganondorf does; however, that is subjective.

Here is an example to better help you understand: Toon Link is the MAIN PROTAGONIST of the series and has plenty of games to draw from.
Young Link is the main protagonist of the series. Toon Link is a playable character in about 5 or so games, but he's still just Link. He's literally just another version of Link. That's all he is! Do you not understand this argument?
 

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Young Link is the main protagonist of the series. Toon Link is a playable character in about 5 or so games, but he's still just Link. He's literally just another version of Link. That's all he is! Do you not understand this argument?
I was joking around because of your improper use of a question mark, to be clear.

I... don't get this argument?
Regardless, they are both clones because they have similar "builds."
 

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So with all this talk of veterans and they're movesets, and the fact that so many are essentially made from nothing by Sakurai based on general concepts, are there any veterans you wish could be redone from the ground up? I'll assume almost everyone (except us ganon mains) want Ganon redone so for the sake of diversity, let's leave him out.

I'd like to see a Shiek redesign, at least her specials, they're so unimaginative. generic ninja is such a misuse of what sakurai can do with that magical brain of his.
 

Morbi

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So with all this talk of veterans and they're movesets, and the fact that so many are essentially made from nothing by Sakurai based on general concepts, are there any veterans you wish could be redone from the ground up? I'll assume almost everyone (except us ganon mains) want Ganon redone so for the sake of diversity, let's leave him out.

I'd like to see a Shiek redesign, at least her specials, they're so unimaginative. generic ninja is such a misuse of what sakurai can do with that magical brain of his.
Kirby. I do not know much about the character or his series, but based on what I have seen; he has the potential to be one of the most unique characters. However, Sakurai's desire to make him a simple beginner's character has really attenuated my impression of him. Punches and kicks, punches and kicks. SLIDE. They even removed his awesome dash attack for the spin kick in Brawl to make him more bland. R.O.B. is the only other character that I would want redone. He should be more unique and fun (move-set wise). They have some great ideas that they never capitalized on. Such wasted potential.
 

Curious Villager

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So with all this talk of veterans and they're movesets, and the fact that so many are essentially made from nothing by Sakurai based on general concepts, are there any veterans you wish could be redone from the ground up? I'll assume almost everyone (except us ganon mains) want Ganon redone so for the sake of diversity, let's leave him out.

I'd like to see a Shiek redesign, at least her specials, they're so unimaginative. generic ninja is such a misuse of what sakurai can do with that magical brain of his.
Inb4 Wario. (But he should go halfsies I suppose (and he should keep the Bike))

I'd like to see what else they could do with Mewtwo if they brought him back.
 

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I... don't get this argument? Toon Link makes sense as a clone. I don't give a **** about what he has available to use. He's just Link, that's it.

Ganondorf is the MAIN ANTAGONIST of the series and has plenty of boss battles to draw from. And not only is he a clone, but he's a clone of a character FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FRANCHISE.

Toon Link's "red flag" has nothing to do with Ganondorf at all. Toon Link would be on the low end of the spectrum for getting decloned, with Ganondorf being the #1 character who deserves to be completely decloned.
It's been established that Toon Link isn't merely a second Link or "just Link." He has his own distinguishing characteristics and abilities that deserve to be recognized just as much as any other character. He's the main protagonist of his own story and is obviously popular enough to where he has a following that's autonomous from the more "mature" Link we know. If he doesn't merit a single change, then it's honestly hard for me to imagine that Ganondorf will receive drastic changes in the upcoming smash. You're free to disagree with me, and I'm sure you will, but I don't believe there's an overly high chance Ganondorf will see a revamp as much as it's warranted given what I've described already on top of the fact Sakurai believed it was ok to implement the same Captain Falcon inspired moveset so many years after Melee.
 

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Kirby's neutral special makes him one of the most unique characters regardless of the rest of the moveset imo.

And the spin kick still takes from the yo-yo power, it's not like it's generic.

I personally am satisfied by Kirby's attacks.


If anything I think DK's and Sonic's could be made more interesting.
 

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Kirby's neutral special makes him one of the most unique characters regardless of the rest of the moveset imo.

And the spin kick still takes from the yo-yo power, it's not like it's generic.

I personally am satisfied by Kirby's attacks.


If anything I think DK's and Sonic's could be made more interesting.
As I stated, I am no authority on matters pertaining to Kirby. You would know better than I. However, I had completely forgotten about Sonic. That is a great suggestion, one that I am sure that everyone will agree with. I could go for one or two less "spin attacks."
 

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So with all this talk of veterans and they're movesets, and the fact that so many are essentially made from nothing by Sakurai based on general concepts, are there any veterans you wish could be redone from the ground up? I'll assume almost everyone (except us ganon mains) want Ganon redone so for the sake of diversity, let's leave him out.

I'd like to see a Shiek redesign, at least her specials, they're so unimaginative. generic ninja is such a misuse of what sakurai can do with that magical brain of his.
Zelda. Her current set is sorta a poor concept (basically, it's entirely made of finishers which is both A. Crappy and B. Unfitting for the character). I'd like to see her archery skills be put to use instead, as we don't have any bow centric characters. She'd focus on smart zoning and playing keep away, maybe have a few options to get out of pressure if necessary after testing.

Actually, hasn't Zelda used a bow about as many times as Ganondorf used a sword? Why aren't people complaining about that?
 

LonelyJaguar

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Kirby's moves are fine already IMO, though I think what could make him more unique is already being done with the customized movesets. For example, the ice breath move which is an alternate of his neutral b.

Sonic DEFINITELY needs to be revamped, he was seriously so boring in Brawl. Like, all he did was turn into a ball... I'd like to see some attacks maybe involving some gold rings or something. :sonic:
 

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Zelda. Her current set is sorta a poor concept (basically, it's entirely made of finishers which is both A. Crappy and B. Unfitting for the character). I'd like to see her archery skills be put to use instead, as we don't have any bow centric characters. She'd focus on smart zoning and playing keep away, maybe have a few options to get out of pressure if necessary after testing.

Actually, hasn't Zelda used a bow about as many times as Ganondorf used a sword? Why aren't people complaining about that?
Because at least Zelda is an original character based on the Zelda games... Zelda never even used a Bow in Ocarina of Time. Frankly, I couldn't care less if Ganondorf really got a sword (the fact that he uses a sword in his taunts is just taunting everyone, though). What I care about more is Ganondorf using his dark magic, and he doesn't do that, either.
 

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Because at least Zelda is an original character based on the Zelda games... Zelda never even used a Bow in Ocarina of Time. Frankly, I couldn't care less if Ganondorf really got a sword (the fact that he uses a sword in his taunts is just taunting everyone, though). What I care about more is Ganondorf using his dark magic, and he doesn't do that, either.
I was half joking, but Ganondorf didn't use a sword in OoT either (unless you count Ganon). I definitely agree that Ganondorf should have magic in his moveset, as well. I'd like to see both revamped (so long as Falcondorf is given to Black Shadow), but obviously the ship has sailed on Zelda already.
 

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I want all three. I know we will get them all as trophies at the very least, but I'm hoping Aeron and Zael get ATs.
 
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