Character Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

I'm pretty sure that is the case, but I'm not afraid, as Ghirahim is surely playable and would not get disconfirmed this week.

(OHGODSAKURAIPLEASEHAVEMERCYONMYPOORSOUL)

It is doubtful that Sakurai would murder one of the more debated Legend of Zelda characters prior to Hyrule Warriors; Shulk, Ridley, King K. Rool, Ghirahim... any notable character that is highly contested... are safe.

 

[False Sense]

It is doubtful that Sakurai would murder one of the more debated Legend of Zelda characters prior to Hyrule Warriors; Shulk, Ridley, King K. Rool, Ghirahim... any notable character that is highly contested... are safe.

Is that why the most popular choice for a retro newcomer was disconfirmed right after his game was announced for a North American release?

 

[Kenith]

@ Louie G. The only reason I suggested Ghirahim as a semi-clone in the first place was because you removed him from your roster.

And also because it's a good fit if Ghirahim doesn't warrant the resources for a unique character.

 

[Morbi]

Is that why the most popular choice for a retro newcomer was disconfirmed right after his game was announced for a North American release?

I fail to understand the point... people stopped speculating in favor of Takamaru quite awhile ago. However, I would assert that he was deconfirmed BECAUSE his game was announced for a North American release. Cross-promotion and whatnot.

 

[Nat Perry]

It is doubtful that Sakurai would murder one of the more debated Legend of Zelda characters prior to Hyrule Warriors; Shulk, Ridley, King K. Rool, Ghirahim... any notable character that is highly contested... are safe.

Watch there be an anticlimatic disconfirmation the day Hyrule Warriors releases.

"Hyrule Warriors is out today in Japan! To commemorate the occasion, here's Ghirahim...as an Assist Trophy. The designers really went overboard on his fabulous hair. I bet his heart is filled with rainbows."

"As are yours."

 

[Gene]

It is doubtful that Sakurai would murder one of the more debated Legend of Zelda characters prior to Hyrule Warriors; Shulk, Ridley, King K. Rool, Ghirahim... any notable character that is highly contested... are safe.

I don't believe every notable character is safe or equally safe. Sakurai could make Ghirahim or Captain Toad playable while at the same time make K. Rool and Ridley bosses or AT's if he doesn't see potential in them. It sounds like bull but Sakurai has made some unforgiving and odd choices over the years so I try to be ready for the worst.

 

[SureNsync]

Medusa, Hades, Palutena, and Viridi have "too-big" forms in Uprising. However, they are all gods, and gods have powers. Palutena can can size herself down to human proportions. So I have no doubt everyone else can do the same.

The Hades supporters are so doomed. Hades will never be playable. When I see Hades in even wish rosters, I feel like I'm in the fantasy world. He's insanely unrealistic. Jeff, Viridi, Vaati, and Anthony would get in way before Hades ever could. When I try to picture Hades in Versus Mode, I get a straight error report.

 

[False Sense]

I fail to understand the point... people stopped speculating in favor of Takamaru quite awhile ago. However, I would assert that he was deconfirmed BECAUSE his game was announced for a North American release. Cross-promotion and whatnot.

Well, I think there were still a number of people who still speculated in favor of Takamaru as of late, especially after the recent announcement of the North American release. And even then, he was quite a popular and highly speculated character not too long ago. That didn't exactly stop him from getting the axe prior to release.

Also, couldn't someone like Ghirahim get de-confirmed because of the release of Hyrule Warriors? I believe the cross-promotion idea still works in this scenario.

 

[Morbi]

The Hades supporters are so doomed. Hades will never be playable. When I see Hades in even wish rosters, I feel like I'm in the fantasy world. He's insanely unrealistic. Jeff, Viridi, Vaati, and Anthony would get in way before Hades ever could. When I try to picture Hades in Versus Mode, I get a straight error report.

We shall see about that... even though you speak the truth.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It is doubtful that Sakurai would murder one of the more debated Legend of Zelda characters prior to Hyrule Warriors; Shulk, Ridley, King K. Rool, Ghirahim... any notable character that is highly contested... are safe.

I actually think the opposite, revealing a new Zelda AT on Hyrule Warrior's release is legitimate promotion as we've just seen with Takamaru. A character doesn't need to be playable in order to be used as promotional material, it's still better than showing nothing, and I don't believe Ghirahim is so sacred in speculation that it'd hurt that much either.

 

[Morbi]

Well, I think there were still a number of people who still speculated in favor of Takamaru as of late, especially after the recent announcement of the North American release. And even then, he was quite a popular and highly speculated character not too long ago. That didn't exactly stop him from getting the axe prior to release.

Also, couldn't someone like Ghirahim get de-confirmed because of the release of Hyrule Warriors? I believe the cross-promotion idea still works in this scenario.

Of course, but I envision the scenario to be more like this, closer to release or notable news.

Watch there be an anticlimatic disconfirmation the day Hyrule Warriors releases.

"Hyrule Warriors is out today in Japan! To commemorate the occasion, here's Ghirahim...as an Assist Trophy. The designers really went overboard on his fabulous hair. I bet his heart is filled with rainbows."

"As are yours."

 

[False Sense]

The Hades supporters are so doomed. Hades will never be playable. When I see Hades in even wish rosters, I feel like I'm in the fantasy world. He's insanely unrealistic. Jeff, Viridi, Vaati, and Anthony would get in way before Hades ever could. When I try to picture Hades in Versus Mode, I get a straight error report.

While I do think he is very unlikely, I think Hades has a little more of a chance than you give him credit for. It's not like he's an impossibility.

 

[Nat Perry]

The Hades supporters are so doomed. Hades will never be playable. When I see Hades in even wish rosters, I feel like I'm in the fantasy world. He's insanely unrealistic. Jeff, Viridi, Vaati, and Anthony would get in way before Hades ever could. When I try to picture Hades in Versus Mode, I get a straight error report.

You never know.

At least the gods have powers to shrink themselves.

Ridley has to hope that he's reconstructed right, or that he regenerates into a viable size.

 

[Opossum]

And just as easily he could've thought of Rosalina as a bigger Peach clone, and give Toad or Bowser Jr or Waluigi or Paper Mario a unique moveset, they're all feasible. Yes, Rosalina is a "rising star", but when was the last time Sakurai picked a rising star above an individual established, more popular, more prevalent star for an original moveset?

I'm also not dismissing Mewtwo, I'm just saying he wasn't given priority over a recent newcomer.

And yes, it does make sense to pick from the newest FE game, but that's not what Sakurai did in Melee (understandably), and in Brawl he went to IS and they suggested the character from the newest game. He wasn't decided on Ike beforehand, and still attempted to include Roy, but this time it's like he didn't even give any title other than Awakening a chance for inclusion.

If it was just FE that he was on a recent recency bent it wouldn't be enough to judge other inclusions on, but let's look at the new series included so far: AC (counting it as new), Wii Fit, Punch-Out, Mii, and probably RH and Xenoblade. All series with post-Brawl impact. And the characters from established series came from Galaxy/3D World, Uprising, X/Y, and Awakening, all titles post-Brawl or primarily post-Brawl. You have to admit that including K. Rool would be breaking the precedent that seems to be set here.

It's not impossible for sure, but when you do have feasible, popular, importance characters in the series who do fit under this umbrella, it seems unlikely Sakurai would choose to venture outside it.


But you're giving all the DKCs the same amount of importance and merit as far as representation in this game goes. That's not what Sakurai has been doing with the other series, and it stands to reason he wouldn't with this one either, especially since the two most recent have made the largest splash for the series since DK64. If all the titles were on equal footing, I'd agree that K. Rool does have more in his favour (though they'd still be close), but they aren't.


If a character we all thought would be a semi-clone at best managed to jump out at Sakurai, it's not like we can really predict what will and won't catch his attention. Robin only looked so unique in comparison to Chrom, but Dixie isn't in Chrom's position, she can legitimately be made original with little effort and minimal overlap with Diddy. Plus, we're assuming here that Sakurai would try Dixie first then opt for K. Rool, going by the Chrom and Robin comparison, but that's just it, an assumption. Chances are if Sakurai does try to include Dixie he'll do his best to find her unique qualities, of which she's not as limited as Chrom. Especially since Chrom was found redundant after both Marth and Ike, without one of them Sakurai probably would've given him the general playstyle of the other - or at least something close to it, but with Dixie there's only Diddy and there's less redundancy.

And Dixie could also make for a semi-clone unlike K. Rool, which is a point in her favour.


He didn't list a DK character at all though. For all we know it's entirely possible Sakurai never intended to include an original DK character this time, but in the period of padding the roster, which DK character is going to make for the best clone? Like you said, not K. Rool.

Plus Little Mac, Greninja, Palutena and Shulk only made one high profile appearance since Brawl as well when they were chosen.


Or... they were chosen because they're iconic locations within the games...
You're trying too hard to connect the dots here, new stages aren't indicators of new characters unless it's from a new series. And not even then all the time. Did you think we wouldn't get a Galaxy stage? We got a Sunshine stage last time, and a 64 stage before that. Lumiose City is one of the most iconic locations in the game, and the Elite Four is one of the most iconic locations in the whole series, they have nothing to do with Greninja specifically. Arena Ferox would be able to be linked to any Awakening character with a chance tbh. Stages are generally just chosen to represent the new games of the series.

It's pretty inevitable we'll be getting a stage based on one of the new DKC games... not that that means anything specifically as far as characters go. If we do get Gangplank Galleon as a stage, yeah it's pretty probable K. Rool would be involved, but not necessarily as a playable character. And getting Gangplank Galleon in the first place is just a guess.


It wasn't the colour of hair that got Chrom excluded though, it was the lack of diversity Sakurai found in his playstyle.

Also, we still have three blue-haired sword-wielders from FE, if it was a problem... we wouldn't.


Exactly, look at all the character that didn't exist before Brawl that have now wound up included. Look at the characters that got important post-Brawl that have wound up included.

Now look at the characters who existed before but didn't get any more important post-Brawl and see how many of them are included. None. Every single one had some kind of notable impact post-Brawl.

And I'm not including third-parties because they're in different situations here.


What it boils down to is the problem doesn't lie with K. Rool as a character, the problem lies with Sakurai focusing on a time period in which K. Rool didn't stand out or make any waves, yet another character in his series does. We haven't seen the entire roster yet obv, but there's a very good reason to believe all the Nintendo characters will be those that had an impact post-Brawl, all nine newcomers and the remaining two "leaked" ones all have. You can argue K. Rool's positives all you want, and I'd agree with you on them, but it seems like arguing for a character outside the boundary of what Sakurai is even considering this time around.

If we had gotten a retro... or a character who made their impact primarily pre-Brawl, I'd be right with you think K. Rool stood the best chance, but there's a point when you have to look at the landscape of what we've gotten, see that it's been unilaterally in one direction as far as Nintendo characters go, and reevaluate. I could be wrong, sure, but given the precedent it makes sense to presume that's how the rest of the roster will pan out as well - in favour of the recent.

I concede a bit, as you present very valid points. Though, I do think that K. Rool has a small edge for one reason, however minor, and that's the Kremlings, simply because it'd be odd to just bring them back just because, and add them very faithfully from past DKC games at that, in my opinion. The only games with Kremlings and no K. Rool were Diddy Kong Racing (though K. Rool's implied to have sent Krunch, and he was to be in the sequel) and Strikers Charged, which is an oddity that not even I can explain. Maybe they needed a random goon to be a goalie? Either way, it just seems odd.

But I'll admit, I may have been giving Dixie less than she deserves.

 

[Kenith]

You never know.
At least the gods have powers to shrink themselves.
Ridley has to hope that he's reconstructed right, or that he regenerates into a viable size.

Seriously, how is this not a viable size?

 

[Nat Perry]

Seriously, how is this not a viable size?

View attachment 19754

He's mostly fine there, ish. He has to be the biggest character in the game though. Also, he needs to be re-proportioned specifically for the game. But you can't do much with a sprite.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Seriously, how is this not a viable size?

View attachment 19754

Back over in the Ridley thread, we've come up with this size, regardless of whether he's playable or a boss.

 

[N3ON]

I concede a bit, as you present very valid points. Though, I do think that K. Rool has a small edge for one reason, however minor, and that's the Kremlings, simply because it'd be odd to just bring them back just because, and add them very faithfully from past DKC games at that, in my opinion. The only games with Kremlings and no K. Rool were Diddy Kong Racing (though K. Rool's implied to have sent Krunch, and he was to be in the sequel) and Strikers Charged, which is an oddity that not even I can explain. Maybe they needed a random goon to be a goalie? Either way, it just seems odd.

But I'll admit, I may have been giving Dixie less than she deserves.

I agree that the Kremlings are still a point in K. Rool's favour, but to be fair other series also have received enemies from games that aren't their most recent like Zelda or Pikmin, and the Tikis do still appear in Smash Run as well...

 

[False Sense]

I agree that the Kremlings are still a point in K. Rool's favour, but to be fair other series also have received enemies from games that aren't their most recent like Zelda or Pikmin, and the Tikis do still appear in Smash Run as well...

To be honest, I'm wondering where the enemies from Tropical Freeze are.

 

[Morbi]

To be honest, I'm wondering where the enemies from Tropical Freeze are.

The Wii U "version" of Smash Run?

Back over in the Ridley thread, we've come up with this size, regardless of whether he's playable or a boss.

Honestly, I am not too fond of the size, was that the size "determined" by the shadow analysis?

 

[Nat Perry]

Back over in the Ridley thread, we've come up with this size, regardless of whether he's playable or a boss.

Looks way too small.

Also if Ridley was flying with his body upright then of course his shadow would make him look smaller.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Does anyone else have a strange feeling that Sakurai is going to commit genocide this week by showing more Assist Trophies? I mean it would be a good idea to show off some of them this week like how he showed stages last week. If it happens this week then no one is safe.

I'm guessing poor Slippy will be the next victim ..... as a trophy. It doesn't help the fact that his popularity's better in Japan than here and he's being overshadowed by Krystal.

 

[Nat Perry]

I'm guessing poor Slippy will be the next victim ..... as a trophy. It doesn't help the fact that his popularity's better in Japan than here and he's being overshadowed by Krystal.

We need him and Peppy for Smash Taunts. No getting out of the cockpit for him.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

The Wii U "version" of Smash Run?


Honestly, I am not too fond of the size, was that the size "determined" by the shadow analysis?

Yep.

 

[HugoBoss]

I concede a bit, as you present very valid points. Though, I do think that K. Rool has a small edge for one reason, however minor, and that's the Kremlings, simply because it'd be odd to just bring them back just because, and add them very faithfully from past DKC games at that, in my opinion. The only games with Kremlings and no K. Rool were Diddy Kong Racing (though K. Rool's implied to have sent Krunch, and he was to be in the sequel) and Strikers Charged, which is an oddity that not even I can explain. Maybe they needed a random goon to be a goalie? Either way, it just seems odd.

But I'll admit, I may have been giving Dixie less than she deserves.

This comes from a Dixie supporter mind you
Can I just say that this argument of Sakurai favoring recency is already very faulty? For starters, we have no idea on Tropical Freeze even being represented in this game let alone if it was far enough in development to be acknowledged by Sakurai......if anything it would just be weightless speculation to debate on recency and the Donkey Kong series just yet.

 

[Nat Perry]

Shadow analysis my two round, baby-smooth butt cheeks. You can't determine his size from that, you don't even get a good glimpse at his position and if he was upright then he's bigger than "determined," which he probably is, by the way.

 

[Opossum]

I agree that the Kremlings are still a point in K. Rool's favour, but to be fair other series also have received enemies from games that aren't their most recent like Zelda or Pikmin, and the Tikis do still appear in Smash Run as well...

The tiki thing is exactly why it's great. Sakurai knows the new enemies are there, but still also throws in the Kremlings. At the very least, he must have given him some thought.

 

[N3ON]

This comes from a Dixie supporter mind you
Can I just say that this argument of Sakurai favoring recency is already very faulty? For starters, we have no idea on Tropical Freeze even being represented in this game let alone if it was far enough in development to be acknowledged by Sakurai......if anything it would just be weightless speculation to debate on recency and the Donkey Kong series just yet.

Whether TF is too recent to get much content is a valid point, but the argument of Sakurai favouring recency is most certainly not faulty.

You only need to look at the roster and the stages to see where the majority of the content is coming from.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Shadow analysis my two round, baby-smooth butt cheeks. You can't determine his size from that, you don't even get a good glimpse at his position and if he was upright then he's bigger than "determined," which he probably is, by the way.

My analysis is based entirely around the thickness of his tail. The only way it can be debunked is if his tail-shadow inexplicably becomes skinnier than his actual tail, or if the model itself is different. As it stands, the scale I have is his largest possible size, and I hope he gets longer legs.

 

[Derekburn]

How many characters at this rate do you think will be in the game?!

 

[Morbi]

The tiki thing is exactly why it's great. Sakurai knows the new enemies are there, but still also throws in the Kremlings. At the very least, he must have given him some thought.

Enough thought to make King K. Rool an assist trophy, perhaps!

This comes from a Dixie supporter mind you
Can I just say that this argument of Sakurai favoring recency is already very faulty? For starters, we have no idea on Tropical Freeze even being represented in this game let alone if it was far enough in development to be acknowledged by Sakurai......if anything it would just be weightless speculation to debate on recency and the Donkey Kong series just yet.

Weightless speculation is the best kind of speculation; if we all dealt in objective fact, the newcomers would be blatantly overt. We cannot have that! We must maintain the facade that Sakurai is "unpredictable."

 

[Nat Perry]

oh but he didn't use anything from sf command oh but its portable oh but it might not be canon oh he didn't use anything from radiant dawn oh but that wasn't the most recent but it was the most recent console release oh but but but but but but but but but

I expect there to be exceptions to the this supposed pattern.

 

[Louie G.]

How many characters at this rate do you think will be in the game?!

Welcome to the boards! At this point I'm thinking somewhere between 50-56 characters.

@ Dalek_Kolt
I would think that Ridley's a little bigger than that.
I mean the shadow would shrink him a few inches, right?

 

[N3ON]

Weightless speculation is the best kind of speculation; if we all dealt in objective fact, the newcomers would be blatantly overt. We cannot have that! We must maintain the facade that Sakurai is "unpredictable."

If we all dealt in objective fact we'd only be talking about what we already knew. And that's boring.

 

[Nat Perry]

You know what we haven't gotten? A Super Mario 64 stage. Wanna know what would be a perfect stage based on that game? The final Bowser battle arena. Yes, abyss and bombs and all.

The new Supah Maryo rep will be Topaz Gold Wario.

 

[False Sense]

You know what we haven't gotten? A Super Mario 64 stage. Wanna know what would be a perfect stage based on that game? The final Bowser battle arena. Yes, abyss and bombs and all.

The new Supah Maryo rep will be Topaz Gold Wario.

What about Rainbow Cruise?

 

[epicgordan]

I agree that the Kremlings are still a point in K. Rool's favour, but to be fair other series also have received enemies from games that aren't their most recent like Zelda or Pikmin, and the Tikis do still appear in Smash Run as well...

Of course, what is also in King K. Rool's favor too is the fact that the Kremlings essentially built hype for King K. Rool similarly to how the recent announcement of Takamaru's game initially built hype for Takamaru. The difference is that Takamaru was disconfirmed almost instantly over significantly less substantial "evidence" while Sakurai made no attempt to clear up the K. Rool situation following the Smash Direct. If the Kremlings are in the game, then surely Sakurai would have had the capacity to disconfirm K. Rool with at least a trophy reveal, right? So why hasn't he?

In fact, the same could be said about Ridley or Dark Pit. At least with Shulk, Sakurai would not feel obliged to add any content from Xenoblade if he were not to be playable. And at least the Sneaky Spirits don't hint towards a specific Rhythm Heaven character. And at least Fi's trophy doesn't point towards anyone specific other than a possible Skyward Sword rep. The fact that he made no attempt to clear things up for King K. Rool, Ridley, or Dark Pit, if anything, hints towards them being playable.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Welcome to the boards! At this point I'm thinking somewhere between 50-56 characters.

@ Dalek_Kolt
I would think that Ridley's a little bigger than that.
I mean the shadow would shrink him a few inches, right?

The nature of the scale is inaccurate, as I am assuming Ridley is a direct rip of the Other M model. As it stands, this Ridley is 1:1 with the shadow.

However, I do have a pic of this same-scaled Ridley standing more upright.

 

[Nat Perry]

What about Rainbow Cruise?

They need to bring it back! One of my favorite Melee stages.

Oh yeah you're right, it is based on Super Mario 64.

BUT STILL.

 

[Derekburn]

Welcome to the boards! At this point I'm thinking somewhere between 50-56 characters.

@ Dalek_Kolt
I would think that Ridley's a little bigger than that.
I mean the shadow would shrink him a few inches, right?

Thanks!! Yeah I'm also seeing somewhere around that number, especially when you consider that haven't been comfirmed yet

The nature of the scale is inaccurate, as I am assuming Ridley is a direct rip of the Other M model. As it stands, this Ridley is 1:1 with the shadow.

However, I do have a pic of this same-scaled Ridley standing more upright.

This is a good comparison, I would assume that he would be the tallest character