Character Discussion Thread

[~Krystal~]

So guys, what do you think of Bandana Waldo Dee's chances to be the 4th Kirby rep at this point in time?

The whole deal is subjective beyond the main 3. My take is that at least one other character from Kirby would get in before Bandana Waddle Dee. Dyna Blade, for instance, is a singular presence who can have an interesting playstyle also. She's a more established and prominent character in franchise lore than Bandana Dee. That's just one off the top of my head, there could be more.

Dee's advantage is that his Return to Dreamland appearance basically gave a highly useful example of how his spear-based combat could translate to Smash Bros. You could actually import some of his moves from that game verbatim and they would work just as well. So he has that going for him. The moves all there for you. My personal pick would require a little thinking, but not too much. I presume Dyna Blade would function in a similar manner to Ridley, only without the spacing potential of a long and dangerous tail.

 

[pupNapoleon]

There was a huge repartee about Dark Put going on before comparing him to Lucina. I will be happy to get more involved in this later, but I want to point out a couple of facts now (which essentially would weaken my statements later by preparing some of my debaters now, but here it is anyway).
If we are going by precedent, which is not always the case because Sakurai has made it clear that certain rules have changed in this game, particularly his stance on CLONES

DIFFERENCES between Lucina and Dark Pit

• Only the following series have gotten more than one additional character at a time in a single game: Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby, Fire Emblem. Of these, four are the 'mascots' to smash, from the original game.
• All have been around for quite some time, have quite a large number of games in the series, and have a large number of character in an established universe.
• Lucina is a female, which were attempted to be added (heavily) this game.
  
• Lucina replaces a move set which was clamored for by the fans, Roy's
• Sakurai waited until BRAWL to add two characters for Kirby because it was his own franchise. Would he really add two additional characters for Kid Icarus in one outing, after just one game, and make one of them a clone (to which he spoke out against adding), when he has shown such bias AGAINST himself in the past?
• Dark Pit is not the only clone option from the game
• Sakurai has gone on record to state that alt costumes can have different names

 

[mahnamahna]

Fire Emblem and Mother are 1st Party franchises. However, Kirby is a 2nd party franchise as well as Pokémon (since HAL makes the Kirby games and it's a 2nd party developer). Kirby got in since Sakurai created the franchise, and Pokémon since it is only one of the biggest phenomenon's in gaming history.

Actually, for this very reason, I find 2nd party franchises that are not made by HAL or are extremely popular to be highly unlikely in general. This is why I am not a fervent supporter of Isaac since his chances were never that great to begin with being 2nd party and all.

But assuming that we have 12 more returning veterans (including Mewtwo), and a cast of 60 playable characters, who does everybody think is very likely to make it in and why? Me, personally, 8-Bit Mario, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Chorus Kids, Ghirahim, Ridley, Dark Pit, Takamaru, Bandana Dee, and Shulk are the only characters I can think of in which hints may have been planted for, but that's shy the two characters needed to fill the 60-characer roster. All of them have obvious (or likely, albeit straw-grasping) pieces of evidence for and/or against their possible inclusions that have been stated time and time again (although with Takamaru's game coming out internationally on VC for the first time ever at this point and time does help his chances quite a bit, methinks).

12 more newcomers

1. Captain Toad
2. King K. Rool
3. Dixie Kong
4. Chorus Men
5. Shulk
6. Ridley
7. Impa
8. Takamaru
9. Inkling
10. Mach Rider
11. Krystal
12. Chibi-Robo

I'd be pretty happy if those were the remaining newcomers (including DLC)

 

[The Light Music Club]

I'll bite on 12 newcomers even though I don't see it happening.
In order of likely hood:
1. Shulk
2. King K Rool
3. Ridley
4. Duck Hunt Dog
5. Isaac
6. Ghirahim (probably spelled that wrong)
7. Andy
8. Captain Rainbow
9. Black Shadow/Waddle Dee
10. Krystal
11. Bowser Jr.
12. Lip/Mach/Excite

 

[Opossum]

12 more newcomers

1. Captain Toad
2. King K. Rool
3. Dixie Kong
4. Chorus Men
5. Shulk
6. Ridley
7. Impa
8. Takamaru
9. Inkling
10. Mach Rider
11. Krystal
12. Chibi-Robo

I'd be pretty happy if those were the remaining newcomers (including DLC)

I'm pretty confident in saying that there's no way we're getting twelve more newcomers, regardless of DLC.

 

[Starbound]

My top 12:
1. Shulk
2. Chorus Kids
3. Bowser Jr.
4. Duck Hunt Dog
5. Mewtwo
6. Ridley
7. Dixie Kong
8. Dr. Mario
9. Dark Pit
10. Impa
11. King K. Rool
12. Marshal

 

[Morbi]

There was a huge repartee about Dark Put going on before comparing him to Lucina. I will be happy to get more involved in this later, but I want to point out a couple of facts now (which essentially would weaken my statements later by preparing some of my debaters now, but here it is anyway).
If we are going by precedent, which is not always the case because Sakurai has made it clear that certain rules have changed in this game, particularly his stance on CLONES

DIFFERENCES between Lucina and Dark Pit

• Only the following series have gotten more than one additional character at a time in a single game: Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby, Fire Emblem. Of these, four are the 'mascots' to smash, from the original game.
• All have been around for quite some time, have quite a large number of games in the series, and have a large number of character in an established universe.
• Lucina is a female, which were attempted to be added (heavily) this game.
  
• Lucina replaces a move set which was clamored for by the fans, Roy's
• Sakurai waited until BRAWL to add two characters for Kirby because it was his own franchise. Would he really add two additional characters for Kid Icarus in one outing, after just one game, and make one of them a clone (to which he spoke out against adding), when he has shown such bias AGAINST himself in the past?
• Dark Pit is not the only clone option from the game
• Sakurai has gone on record to state that alt costumes can have different names

1 (2). Kid Icarus was featured as a front-runner series in Smash 4 whilst Pit was one of the first revealed characters for Super Smash Brothers Brawl, he was always featured prominently within Smash, so I do not find it odd that the series might receive an additional character, least of all a clone. 28 seconds into the video is where I am alluding to, it is treated as one of the main series for the most part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUyoUfy5hGs

3. So if Dark Pit was a female, he would be considered more likely? Dixie Kong confirmed. They have also attempted to add more anime swordsmen... so the point is moot.

4. Lucina does not have Roy's move-set, which is actually Marth's move-set in the first place. People were clamoring for Roy or "teh phyre," not his play-style, which we already had via Marth and Lucina does not offer what Roy offered by extension either. Their similarities appear to end at the notion that they are both clones of Marth with different sword mechanics.

5. If one of them was a clone, perhaps, in the same vein as Awakening... another successful 3DS title (one game) that warranted "two characters in one outing." I am going to need a source on the assertion in parenthesis. Regardless, I doubt that an additional "bonus" character (as people refer to Lucina) is enough to attenuate his credibility by way of showing his bias. It is his game, Sakurai bias is already prevalent and Kid Icarus is not his own series akin to Kirby, he merely revived it and he has already given it preferential treatment through items, stages, status, and whatnot.

6. Of course not, he was the only one subtly alluded to upon multiple occasions, however. Does this point not contradict the prior statements pertaining to this sentiment? It seems counter-intuitive to include it.

7. Sakurai has also gone on the record with (this is right after what he stated regarding your point): However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

 

[Chandeelure]

The whole deal is subjective beyond the main 3. My take is that at least one other character from Kirby would get in before Bandana Waddle Dee. Dyna Blade, for instance, is a singular presence who can have an interesting playstyle also. She's a more established and prominent character in franchise lore than Bandana Dee. That's just one off the top of my head, there could be more.

Sure! Dyna Blade can be the Kirby newcomer!
We can also have Wrinkly Kong as a Donkey Kong newcomer and Epona as a Zelda newcomer!

Spoiler

No offense.

 

[~Krystal~]

I've littered my twelve with plausible clones and semis since that's the only way I see a 12 "newcomer" scenario happening.

In no particular order:

1. Dixie
2. Shulk
3. Dark Pit
4. Ghost Hunter from Ocarina of Time (Obligatory Shock Pick)
5. Ridley
6. Duck Hunt Dog
7. Black Shadow
8. Krystal
9. Toon Zelda
10. K. Rool
11. Captain Toad
12. Paper Mario

Sure! Dyna Blade can be the Kirby newcomer!
We can also have Wrinkly Kong as a Donkey Kong newcomer and Epona as a Zelda newcomer!

What makes Dyna Blade such an outlandish idea? I don't think it's fair or accurate to compare the character to an aged Kong (which Cranky demonstrated could be playable, btw), or stranger yet, a horse that's shown limited combat capabilities.

 

[Morbi]

MorbidAltruism's 12 (in order of most likely to least likely):
1. Ridley
2. Ghirahim or Impa
3. Mewtwo
4. Dr. Mario
5. Dark Pit
6. Shulk
7. Black Shadow
8. Hades
9. Waddle Dee
10. Krystal
11. Dixie Kong
12. Duck Hunt Dog

 

[Nat Perry]

MorbidAltruism's 12 (in order of most likely to least likely):
1. Ridley
2. Ghirahim or Impa
3. Mewtwo
4. Dr. Mario
5. Dark Pit
6. Shulk
7. Black Shadow
8. Hades
9. Waddle Dee
10. Krystal
11. Dixie Kong
12. Duck Hunt Dog

Waddle Dee above Krystal? I mean that's not surprising but man, bold.

 

[Morbi]

Waddle Dee above Krystal? I mean that's not surprising but man, bold.

I have to admit, after "number six" I could not discern the correct order (in fact I just placed my favorites, Black Shadow and Hades, above the rest); however, I do find Waddle Dee more likely, I believe that many erroneously presume Kirby to be "fine" and therefore they do not expect another character while a plausible candidate stands right before their eyes.

 

[The Light Music Club]

MorbidAltruism's 12 (in order of most likely to least likely):
1. Ridley
2. Ghirahim or Impa
3. Mewtwo
4. Dr. Mario
5. Dark Pit
6. Shulk
7. Black Shadow
8. Hades
9. Waddle Dee
10. Krystal
11. Dixie Kong
12. Duck Hunt Dog

He said not to include Mewtwo, but that's fine.

 

[Morbi]

He said not to include Mewtwo, but that's fine.

Ah, well... um... Sceptile?

No. No. Mew!

I was hard-pressed to come up with 12 characters to be honest. I suppose Impa can replace Mewtwo as I am not entirely certain which of the two will be our Legend of Zelda newcomer, assuming we get one, of course.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Ah, well... um... Sceptile?

No. No. Mew!

I was hard-pressed to come up with 12 characters to be honest. I suppose Impa can replace Mewtwo as I am not entirely certain which of the two will be our Legend of Zelda newcomer, assuming we get one, of course.

Same. Honestly, I think we have 4 more. Maybe 2 as hidden or something. Not sure. We for sure aren't getting 12.

 

[Pizzanigs]

MorbidAltruism's 12 (in order of most likely to least likely):
1. Ridley
2. Ghirahim or Impa
3. Mewtwo
4. Dr. Mario
5. Dark Pit
6. Shulk
7. Black Shadow
8. Hades
9. Waddle Dee
10. Krystal
11. Dixie Kong
12. Duck Hunt Dog

N-No King K. Rool?

 

[epicgordan]

1. Ridley: 100% (teased nonstop for almost a whole year)
2. Shulk: 98% (recently "given away" by Monolith Soft)
3. Dark Pit: 90% (teased and has yet to be disconfirmed)
4. King K. Rool: 85% (Kremlings appeared in April, and we haven't heard anything from K. Rool since; considering just how quick Sakurai is to disconfirm a character when hype is built up with the Takamaru incident, it's looking pretty good for his chances)
5. Chorus Kids: 75% (the Sneaky Spirits hints towards a Rhythm Heaven character, but none specifically)
6. Ghirahim: 65% (the Trophy Quiz theory likely hints towards a Skyward Sword rep)
7. Dixie Kong: 50% (maybe; of all the characters not yet teased, she probably has the best shot at getting in of them all)
8. Excitebiker: 30% (the most probable retro inclusion, methinks, evidence notwithstanding)
9. Duck Hunt Dog: 25% (the second most probable and could potentially fit in similarly to ROB and G&W)
10.8-Bit Mario: 20% (not as likely as the others above them, but evidence does point towards his possible inclusion at the amiibo trailer; let's just wait and see)
11.Bandana Dee: 10% (maybe if the cast were to explode to near or at 60, but at best, he's likely DLC)
12.Krystal: 5% (she may have a unique moveset, but otherwise, her chances are pretty abysmal)

Edit: Added fonts to make this easier to read.

 

[Morbi]

N-No King K. Rool?

I apologize, I have never found him to be an extremely likely candidate (and the incessant "shoe-in" talk when I first joined was far too prevalent and oppressive)... it is the one character selection that I would LOVE to be wrong about. There is not enough "evidence" or "logic" behind him to incite my support, however.

 

[Scamper52596]

Well, I guess I'll list my most plausible 12 characters that I feel have a decent shot at getting in.
In no order in particular...

1. Paper Mario
2. Dixie Kong
3. King K. Rool
4. Toon Zelda
5. Bandana Dee
6. Mewtwo
7. Ridley
8. Krystal
9. Black Shadow
10. Shulk
11. Isaac
12. Rhythm Heaven Character (Possibly Chorus Men)

 

[The Light Music Club]

Well, I guess I'll list my most plausible 12 characters that I feel have a decent shot at getting in.
In no order in particular...

1. Paper Mario
2. Dixie Kong
3. King K. Rool
4. Toon Zelda
5. Bandana Dee
6. Mewtwo
7. Ridley
8. Krystal
9. Black Shadow
10. Shulk
11. Isaac
12. Rhythm Heaven Character (Possibly Chorus Men)

Funny he's first on the list with the new stage shown being his.

 

[Scamper52596]

Funny he's first on the list with the new stage shown being his.

And I think the stage looks absolutely amazing.

 

[Pizzanigs]

I apologize, I have never found him to be an extremely likely candidate (and the incessant "shoe-in" talk when I first joined was far too prevalent and oppressive)... it is the one character selection that I would LOVE to be wrong about. There is not enough "evidence" or "logic" behind him to incite my support, however.

Understood. I can't disagree with the fact that people do overestimate his chances. K. Rool being referred to as a "shoe-in" is a huge overstatement.

 

[N3ON]

He is unlikely, just like Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Rosalina, Greninja, Robin and Lucina...Oh wait.

You forgot the hundreds of other unlikely characters who end up not making it.

 

[Rockaphin]

Oh God, I seriously hope this is hinting towards a character. I'm really excited.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Is that a Paper Mario Sticker Star stage I spy on the official website? That fan sure looks familiar.

 

[Johnknight1]

I cannot tell you how angry I am as a fan of games that the game that might possibly destroy Paper Mario gets a part of a stage.

Oh well, at least I can download a hack and put a Thousand Year Door skin over the first section of this stage from this terrible game.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

I cannot tell you how angry I am as a fan of games that the game that might possibly destroy Paper Mario gets a stage over all-time classics in the original Paper Mario and The Thousand Year Door.

Oh well, at least I can download a hack and put a Thousand Year Door skin over the first section of this stage from this terrible game.

Check out Sakurai's post on Miiverse. It's a transforming stage that represents the series as a whole, from what I gather.

 

[MagnesD3]

1. Ridley
2. Krystal
3. Demise
4. King K. Rool
5. Bayonetta
6. Porky
7. Bowser Jr.
8. Impa
9. Black Shadow
10. Paper Mario
11. Medusa
12. Isaac

Mewtwo would be high if he wasn't a veteran

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

It's funny how my opinion on Paper Mario's chances can 180 so quickly.

Anyhow, on stages foreshadowing characters:
Fool me once, Sakurai, shame on you. (Mario Galaxy, Rosalina's home stage)
Fool me twice Sakurai, shame on me. (Boxing Ring, Little Mac's home stage.)
Fool me three times, and I probably deserve it. (Lumiose City, Greninja's home stage, Palutena's temple, Paltena's home stage Tomadatchi Life, the Mii's home stage.)
So yeah. Woo, Paper Mario.

 

[Sebz]

Paper Mario stage? DOOPLISS CONFIRMED, SLICK!!

No, but really, Paper Mario is a strong possibility now.

 

[N3ON]

I cannot tell you how angry I am as a fan of games that the game that might possibly destroy Paper Mario gets a part of a stage.

Oh well, at least I can download a hack and put a Thousand Year Door skin over the first section of this stage from this terrible game.

The stage isn't just from SS.

Paper Mario stage? DOOPLISS CONFIRMED, SLICK!!

No, but really, Paper Mario is a strong possibility now.

I wouldn't say so, chances are this is just another Mario stage.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

This new stage goes across all Paper Mario games, it seems. We've seen areas from 2 of the 4, already. Sadly, I think that having this seemingly all-in-one stage limits it to just the 3DS version, which hurts Paper Mario's chances, instead of increasing it. But who knows? Maybe we'll see this on both versions, or maybe one of the other 2 games will be left out to make their own Wii U stage.

 

[Johnknight1]

Nintendo should do to Paper Mario: Sticker Star what SEGA did to Sonic Heroes, Sonic Unleashed, and especially Sonic '06...

...remove it from the portfolio of games they sell and never mention it again (except when talking about TERRIBLE past mistakes).

 

[Joe D.]

Krystal does not have an abysmal chance....

Her chances are far greater than Bandana Dee and Isaac, in my opinion.

Oh look, Paper Mario got some love!

 

[MagnesD3]

Paper Mario name drop kinda deconfirms him imo.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Krystal does not have an abysmal chance....

Her chances are far greater than Bandana Dee and Isaac, in my opinion.

I agree that she probably has a better chance than Bandana Dee, but I think Isaac is pushing it.

 

[Joe D.]

I agree that she probably has a better chance than Bandana Dee, but I think Isaac is pushing it.

Well I think they're a bit equal if anything. I just would think that Krystal has the better chance based off of Series merits. Sure, GS had a more recent entry, but Star Fox is the more iconic series of the two. Both have their chances at least.

 

[N3ON]

Nintendo should do to Paper Mario: Sticker Star what SEGA did to Sonic Heroes, Sonic Unleashed, and especially Sonic '06...

...remove it from the portfolio of games they sell and never mention it again (except when talking about TERRIBLE past mistakes).

Regardless of critical reception, I doubt a game with like two million in sales would be thought of or treated as a mistake by Nintendo.

They are still a business.

Well I think they're a bit equal if anything. I just would think that Krystal has the better chance based off of Series merits. Sure, GS had a more recent entry, but Star Fox is the more iconic series of the two. Both have their chances at least.

Yes, but one already has three characters as well.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Nintendo should do to Paper Mario: Sticker Star what SEGA did to Sonic Heroes, Sonic Unleashed, and especially Sonic '06...

...remove it from the portfolio of games they sell and never mention it again (except when talking about TERRIBLE past mistakes).

Sonic Generations though.

And Sonic Heroes was great and successful. And Sega won't stop referencing it in everything really.

We get it, you don't like that stage, you've said that twice now.

 

[epicgordan]

I'll consider adding Paper Mario on my list of most likely potential newcomers at the end of the week. One of the requirements I felt Paper Mario needed to become a likely candidate was a stage based on his games. We have gotten that on the 3DS version, but if we get a Paper Mario stage on the Wii U, then I will consider him a likely candidate for Smash 4.

Edit: I quite like Sonic Heroes. Unleashed, not so much, but it's decent enough. Actually, from personal experience, there really are not that many bad Sonic games--granted, there's a lot of mediocrity there, but so far, the number of genuinely bad Sonic games I can count with just one hand.