Character Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

I say quite the opposite.
Sakurai's statements clearly dictate that he was in fact working on alternate costumes who were different characters, an Doctor Mario is not even a separate Character by anything other than title (literal) alone.

It is my personal belief, continuing on, that Lucina was added simply to appease fans of Roy, while maintaining the roster with actual relevant AND recent IPs, as well as having another female on the roster. I believe it is only for these two reasons that Lucina was upgraded to playable status, and Dr Mario being added would only be for the IP, which a costume serves the purpose of just fine.

Dr Mario is a costume. Period.

Not according to Sakurai's statements or precedent (Super Smash Brothers Melee and Lucina herself). Feel free to adhere to confirmation bias, however. It is certainly not fallacious to do so in the least!

It sure is quite the opposite if you misconstrue EVERYTHING he asserts.

"... the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot."

 

[ElPanandero]

Not according to Sakurai's statements or precedent (Super Smash Brothers Melee and Lucina herself). Feel free to adhere to confirmation bias, however. It is certainly not fallacious to do so in the least!

It sure is quite the opposite if you misconstrue EVERYTHING he asserts.

"... the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot."

Well technically if the pill operates just like a fireball then he can still be a costume

 

[The Light Music Club]

Fire Emblem and Mother are 1st Party franchises. However, Kirby is a 2nd party franchise as well as Pokémon (since HAL makes the Kirby games and it's a 2nd party developer). Kirby got in since Sakurai created the franchise, and Pokémon since it is only one of the biggest phenomenon's in gaming history.

Actually, for this very reason, I find 2nd party franchises that are not made by HAL or are extremely popular to be highly unlikely in general. This is why I am not a fervent supporter of Isaac since his chances were never that great to begin with being 2nd party and all.

But assuming that we have 12 more returning veterans (including Mewtwo), and a cast of 60 playable characters, who does everybody think is very likely to make it in and why? Me, personally, 8-Bit Mario, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Chorus Kids, Ghirahim, Ridley, Dark Pit, Takamaru, Bandana Dee, and Shulk are the only characters I can think of in which hints may have been planted for, but that's shy the two characters needed to fill the 60-characer roster. All of them have obvious (or likely, albeit straw-grasping) pieces of evidence for and/or against their possible inclusions that have been stated time and time again (although with Takamaru's game coming out internationally on VC for the first time ever at this point and time does help his chances quite a bit, methinks).

Ok. Thanks for that clarification. I think King K. Rool, Duck Hunt Dog, and Shulk and maybe Ridley are the last newcomers, and all Brawl characters but Squritle and Ivysaur are coming back.

 

[Morbi]

Well technically if the pill operates just like a fireball then he can still be a costume

Okay, I will give you that one. We also HAVE to have the F.L.U.D.D filled with Pepto-Bismol as suggested by our dear friend, Jones. In that event, he could certainly be a costume; in fact, it is even more likely that he would be a costume.

 

[Weeman]

Not according to Sakurai's statements or precedent (Super Smash Brothers Melee and Lucina herself). Feel free to adhere to confirmation bias, however. It is certainly not fallacious to do so in the least!

It sure is quite the opposite if you misconstrue EVERYTHING he asserts.

"... the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot."

While i agree with you, i think that quote is more of an excuse than anything, it's not like Lucina NEEDED to have differents abilities from Marth, the same goes for the Doc.

 

[Morbi]

While i agree with you, i think that quote is more of an excuse than anything, it's not like Lucina NEEDED to have differents abilities from Marth, the same goes for the Doc.

I agree that it is more of a standard PR statement than an objective statement indicative of future decisions, but again, that is where the "precedent" portion of my post comes into play. Had Dr. Mario NEVER appeared in Smash, I would agree and deduce that he were to be a costume and nothing more. However, he has already demonstrated different characteristics on most of his attacks and attacks that "function in a an even slightly different manner." If we are to just blatantly disregard Sakurai's statement because we presume it was an excuse or something to that effect, that is an arbitrary reason that can be attributed to any of his prior statements. Essentially, I am asserting that we cannot pick and choose based on convenience. I feel as though there is a little bit of clone bias involved when people believe that Dr. Mario is "unlikely."

 

[Sobreviviente]

Dr Mario is a badass.

 

[Weeman]

I agree that it is more of a standard PR statement than an objective statement indicative of future decisions, but again, that is where the "precedent" portion of my post comes into play. Had Dr. Mario NEVER appeared in Smash, I would agree and deduce that he were to be a costume and nothing more. However, he has already demonstrated different characteristics on most of his attacks and attacks that "function in a an even slightly different manner." If we are to just blatantly disregard Sakurai's statement because we presume it was an excuse or something to that effect, that is an arbitrary reason that can be attributed to any of his prior statements. Essentially, I am asserting that we cannot pick and choose based on convenience. I feel as though there is a little bit of clone bias involved when people believe that Dr. Mario is "unlikely."

Indeed, but my point is that the Doc could certainly end in either one of those positions, if Project M is any aindication that he can work as just an alt. costume, that even with F.L.U.D.D i think it wouldn't look weird, or of course, as a semi Mario clone just like in Melee. Sakurai added Dr. Mario in Melee to buff the roster up (or at least that's what i heard) taking advantage of already having the Mario model done. Now that alt. costumes are possible it will entirely depend on him wether he considers Dr. Mario for an costume change, or decides that he should be a character on it's own, but i don't think that wathever he chooses will be decided by some kind of rule that says that the Doc cannot work as a costume for Mario just because of his abilities being different in Melee, since that is pretty much up to him.

 

[Morbi]

Indeed, but my point is that the Doc could certainly end in either one of those positions, if Project M is any aindication that he can work as just an alt. costume, that even with F.L.U.D.D i think it wouldn't look weird, or of course, as a semi Mario clone just like in Melee. Sakurai added Dr. Mario in Melee to buff the roster up (or at least that's what i heard) taking advantage of already having the Mario model done. Now that alt. costumes are possible it will entirely depend on him wether he considers Dr. Mario for an costume change, or decides that he should be a character on it's own, but i don't think that wathever he chooses will be decided by some kind of rule that says that the Doc cannot work as a costume for Mario just because of his abilities being different in Melee, since that is pretty much up to him.

I am not entirely certain if Dr. Mario used F.L.U.D.D in Project M prior; however, that is not the case at this point in time. Not only that, but Project M changed the properties of the pills from the fireballs as it would have been awkward otherwise. I see your point, but I do not necessarily find it valid, no offense. The pills are a prominent aspect of his character, it would be outlandish to see Dr. Mario without them but with F.L.U.D.D in my opinion. We shall see what Sakurai thinks, although I feel as though he already demonstrated that he feels the same way as I over a decade ago. Obviously that is subject to change... but I would not count on it.

http://projectmgame.com/en/characters/mario

 

[Weeman]

I am not entirely certain if Dr. Mario used F.L.U.D.D in Project M prior; however, that is not the case at this point in time. Not only that, but Project M changed the properties of the pills from the fireballs as it would have been awkward otherwise. I see your point, but I do not necessarily find it valid, no offense.

http://projectmgame.com/en/characters/mario

I didn't word that well, sorry Mexican here , but i meant that i don't think Doc would look weird using F.L.U.D.D if he was a costume, so i think it's a minor complaint, but of course it's just a gut feeling.

 

[ElPanandero]

I am not entirely certain if Dr. Mario used F.L.U.D.D in Project M prior; however, that is not the case at this point in time. Not only that, but Project M changed the properties of the pills from the fireballs as it would have been awkward otherwise. I see your point, but I do not necessarily find it valid, no offense. The pills are a prominent aspect of his character, it would be outlandish to see Dr. Mario without them but with F.L.U.D.D in my opinion. We shall see what Sakurai thinks, although I feel as though he already demonstrated that he feels the same way as I over a decade ago. Obviously that is subject to change... but I would not count on it.

http://projectmgame.com/en/characters/mario

Well he doesn't use the flood, but neither does Mario, so it's kind of a moot point to look at PM

Unless you consider the changed properties of the Pill while still being a costume, which shows (at least in a modded brawl) that you can have alts with different moves. Now wether or not sakurai cares is different story

 

[Weeman]

Well he doesn't use the flood, but neither does Mario, so it's kind of a moot point to look at PM

Unless you consider the changed properties of the Pill while still being a costume, which shows (at least in a modded brawl) that you can have alts with different moves. Now wether or not sakurai cares is different story

To be fair he tought that i implied that Mario used F.L.U.D.D in PM, so he was just correcting me, it's me who used project M as an example in the first place.

 

[Morbi]

Well he doesn't use the flood, but neither does Mario, so it's kind of a moot point to look at PM

Unless you consider the changed properties of the Pill while still being a costume, which shows (at least in a modded brawl) that you can have alts with different moves. Now wether or not sakurai cares is different story

I was not the one who introduced Project M into the discussion.

Greninja'd by "Good Guy Weeman."

I do agree that Dr. Mario could work as an alternate costume with different properties, I suppose it is possible, yes. However, is it truly an alternate costume at that point?

 

[ElPanandero]

To be fair he tought that i implied that Mario used F.L.U.D.D in PM, so he was just correcting me, it's me who used project M as an example in the first place.

I was not the one who introduced Project M into the discussion.

Greninja'd by "Good Guy Weeman."

I do agree that Dr. Mario could work as an alternate costume with different properties, I suppose it is possible, yes. However, is it truly an alternate costume at that point?

I wasn't really trying to argue the point, I was more just trying to add to the conversation, my bad if I came across pretentious guys

 

[Weeman]

I was not the one who introduced Project M into the discussion.

Greninja'd by "Good Guy Weeman."

I do agree that Dr. Mario could work as an alternate costume with different properties, I suppose it is possible, yes. However, is it truly an alternate costume at that point?

Well i think the pills could have the same properties as the fireballs, but of course if they don't then it's not a costume anymore

 

[pupNapoleon]

Not according to Sakurai's statements or precedent (Super Smash Brothers Melee and Lucina herself). Feel free to adhere to confirmation bias, however. It is certainly not fallacious to do so in the least!

It sure is quite the opposite if you misconstrue EVERYTHING he asserts.

"... the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot."

Actually, given all evidence, we know that:
-Dr Mario was suggested as a joke, back in Melee
-He was added back to flesh out the roster, at a time when alt costumes were not a thing
-He was removed, perhaps because he was seen as unnecessary or redundant

At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.

Are you suggesting Dr Mario and Mario are more differentiated than Chrom, Ike, and Marth?

Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth’s alternate costumes. In such cases, even if two characters’ names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes.

We see here that he was considering alt costumes for other characters (and it is suggested that Lucina is just a special case where she was promoted, that other cases still stand), and is not afraid to have them, as given in point for multiple characters we have already seen (Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin). The only difference so far is the name, which he outright says here, is NOT an issue, and was not going to be an issue for Lucina.

I think he also claimed somewhere that he did not want to add clones just to add spaces this game- but I cannot source it, so I will not add it.
That said, I think that your evidence of everything he said is in clear bias, of the actions he has taken in past games, and is completely negligent of what he has done THIS GAME for fan service. Fan service has been around every corner, if you would like me to make a list, I shall, but it would be immense, including ADDING LUCINA as a compromise to add Roy's playset but with a poignant IP.

 

[Weeman]

Actually, given all evidence, we know that:
-Dr Mario was suggested as a joke, back in Melee
-He was added back to flesh out the roster, at a time when alt costumes were not a thing
-He was removed, perhaps because he was seen as unnecessary or redundant

Are you suggestion Dr Mario and Mario are more unique than Chrom, Ike, and Marth?
We see here that he was considering alt costumes or other characters, and is not afraid to have them, as given in point for multiple characters we have already seen (Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin). The only difference so far is the name, which he outright says here, is NOT an issue, and was not going to be an issue for Lucina.

I think he also claimed somewhere that he did not want to add clones just to add spaces this game- but I cannot source it, so I will not add it.
That said, I think that your evidence of everything he said is in clear bias, of the actions he has taken in past games, and is completely negligent of what he has done THIS GAME for fan service. Fan service has been around every corner, if you would like me to make a list, I shall, but it would be immense, including ADDING LUCINA as a compromise to add Roy's playset but with a poignant IP.

But in the end the fact that Lucina made it to the roster means that Sakurai could add the Doc as a character too, by your logic it could be a compromise to keep the playstlye of Doctor Mario from Melee, wich was different than Mario's.

 

[pupNapoleon]

But in the end the fact that Lucina made it to the roster means that Sakurai could add the Doc as a character too, by your logic it could be a compromise to keep the playstlye of Doctor Mario from Melee, wich was different than Mario's.

Of course it is Possible, Sakurai can do anything he wants.

My point is that he went out of his way to state that Lucina is a special scenario. In many, many ways.
Fans are clamoring, or rather, were, for Roy to return. I have not heard any demand for Dr Mario. Allow me to post something I have posted elsewhere, one moment.

Some fans wanted Roy to return! Others were strongly against it!
I think sakurai managed to please both sides
You must ask- what? How is this the case! Roy has not been announced!

Well, of course not, and announced he will not be, as Chrom was not only disconfirmed in the trailer, so was Roy.
There are two sides two the Roy coin- the fact that players simply loved how he played, and the fact that as an IP, an intellectual property, he is simply incredibly unimportant to the series.

Allow me to elaborate.
As for playstyle, we have essentially been told Lucina plays nearly as Roy did- same differentiations from Marth, other than the visual of the flame. Sure it is possible the standards may play differently, but Roy may have at this time been altered anywho- the tip of the blade versus the mainstay of the blade is what made Roy who he was, and that is what Lucina carries.

As for IP- Roy is junk. He is about as necessary to Fire Emblem as Pichu is to Pokemon- recognizable, a face, but overall, in a series with so many characters constantly changing amidst so many new games, completely forgettable and with no specific niche or importance.

Sakurai did something great here in managing to turn this difficult two sided task into a blessing- he managed to please both sides of fans by bringing back the moveset, and infusing it into an even MORE beloved, more appropriate IP in Lucina. Sure, a few people must have liked Roy as a character, of course, and to that I say, some liked any. The greatest following came from those who loved his playstyle.

This not only gives credence to Mewtwos return (returning veteran mistakes from Melee) but to just how well Sakurai can service what the fans want, and even moreso, give the fans better than what they think they want.

 

[Burruni]

I appear to be a bit late for the Dream Roster idea, but this would be mine. A total amount of characters being 79.
Bowser Jr. could take some moves from his father but also use some of the Koopa Army arsenal (Bullet Bill launchers, for one) and his paintbrush. Fawful has a ton of weird gadgets I feel could make an interesting moveset. Cranky is just a silly old-fashioned character that I'd like to see more than Dixie or K.Rool. Baby Bros could basically function with some similarities to the Ice Climbers, based off Partners in Time.
Tetra and Impa could be the Thief and Samurai to Sheik's Ninja. Fi and Ghirahim could be a holy air and evil ground version of a similar moveset (based on lore).
Mawile has that giant mouth to work with! Gourgeist is such a weird little trickster that I loved in Gen 6. I have no idea what Donbe & Hikari are in their original game but look interesting enough as new characters.
Dark Pit has many weapon styles not used from Uprising for his moveset (Palm, Cannon, Staff) and different versions of the used weapon-types to look like Pit but play very differently. Adeline's a cute character I want to see brought back in any capacity.
Hector is the FE Axe god and anyone who's played FE7 agrees. Nephenee's got a great lance and a proper shield. Anna's a swift thief-like character that could have moves based on money (tossing coins, swinging a giant coin bag, etc). Kumatora could be a much more combo-heavy Earthbound character using the moves neglected in the other 2 characters (PK Earth, Power Up, etc).
Goemon's a true ninja back from the SNES and N64. Atlus was bought by SEGA and the SMT games have had a recent fondness for Nintendo... so let's put in Jack Frost! The blank Newcomer slot would be for Overlord Laharl from Disgaea, as his debut game was ported to the DS and he is basically my huge write-in because I love the series and there is a ton of actual weapon types and character specials in the main game. Geno's been argued to death. Cactuar is an iconic FF rep that few people think about, but he has appeared in two Mario sports games at this point. Marina Liteyears was from one of the best N64 games ever. Isaac and Sveta are on the Third Party line because there wasn't room elsewhere and I'm unsure what Camelot's stance is with Nintendo now, but Golden Sun could easily have two reps.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Yes, but right now they are not. So, they don't deserve more than one. If they were owned by Nintendo, then I could see Zero for Megaman and Knuckles for Sonic.

Sonic can easily gain Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Cream, and Blaze due to each having unique abilities as a fighter


We talking 'bout Doc now? Give Mario a custom moveset involving pills for wisdom teeth

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Sonic can easily gain Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Cream, and Blaze due to each having unique abilities as a fighter


We talking 'bout Doc now? Give Mario a custom moveset involving pills for wisdom teeth

As much as I have full awareness that Shadow was disconfirmed as an assist trophy, I just want to point out that it annoys me how much people keep saying he'd be a clone. That's all I have to say about the matter, I promise.

 

[NickerBocker]

I appear to be a bit late for the Dream Roster idea, but this would be mine. A total amount of characters being 79.
Bowser Jr. could take some moves from his father but also use some of the Koopa Army arsenal (Bullet Bill launchers, for one) and his paintbrush. Fawful has a ton of weird gadgets I feel could make an interesting moveset. Cranky is just a silly old-fashioned character that I'd like to see more than Dixie or K.Rool. Baby Bros could basically function with some similarities to the Ice Climbers, based off Partners in Time.
Tetra and Impa could be the Thief and Samurai to Sheik's Ninja. Fi and Ghirahim could be a holy air and evil ground version of a similar moveset (based on lore).
Mawile has that giant mouth to work with! Gourgeist is such a weird little trickster that I loved in Gen 6. I have no idea what Donbe & Hikari are in their original game but look interesting enough as new characters.
Dark Pit has many weapon styles not used from Uprising for his moveset (Palm, Cannon, Staff) and different versions of the used weapon-types to look like Pit but play very differently. Adeline's a cute character I want to see brought back in any capacity.
Hector is the FE Axe god and anyone who's played FE7 agrees. Nephenee's got a great lance and a proper shield. Anna's a swift thief-like character that could have moves based on money (tossing coins, swinging a giant coin bag, etc). Kumatora could be a much more combo-heavy Earthbound character using the moves neglected in the other 2 characters (PK Earth, Power Up, etc).
Goemon's a true ninja back from the SNES and N64. Atlus was bought by SEGA and the SMT games have had a recent fondness for Nintendo... so let's put in Jack Frost! The blank Newcomer slot would be for Overlord Laharl from Disgaea, as his debut game was ported to the DS and he is basically my huge write-in because I love the series and there is a ton of actual weapon types and character specials in the main game. Geno's been argued to death. Cactuar is an iconic FF rep that few people think about, but he has appeared in two Mario sports games at this point. Marina Liteyears was from one of the best N64 games ever. Isaac and Sveta are on the Third Party line because there wasn't room elsewhere and I'm unsure what Camelot's stance is with Nintendo now, but Golden Sun could easily have two reps.

9000/10 for Goemon.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I appear to be a bit late for the Dream Roster idea, but this would be mine. A total amount of characters being 79.
Bowser Jr. could take some moves from his father but also use some of the Koopa Army arsenal (Bullet Bill launchers, for one) and his paintbrush. Fawful has a ton of weird gadgets I feel could make an interesting moveset. Cranky is just a silly old-fashioned character that I'd like to see more than Dixie or K.Rool. Baby Bros could basically function with some similarities to the Ice Climbers, based off Partners in Time.
Tetra and Impa could be the Thief and Samurai to Sheik's Ninja. Fi and Ghirahim could be a holy air and evil ground version of a similar moveset (based on lore).
Mawile has that giant mouth to work with! Gourgeist is such a weird little trickster that I loved in Gen 6. I have no idea what Donbe & Hikari are in their original game but look interesting enough as new characters.
Dark Pit has many weapon styles not used from Uprising for his moveset (Palm, Cannon, Staff) and different versions of the used weapon-types to look like Pit but play very differently. Adeline's a cute character I want to see brought back in any capacity.
Hector is the FE Axe god and anyone who's played FE7 agrees. Nephenee's got a great lance and a proper shield. Anna's a swift thief-like character that could have moves based on money (tossing coins, swinging a giant coin bag, etc). Kumatora could be a much more combo-heavy Earthbound character using the moves neglected in the other 2 characters (PK Earth, Power Up, etc).
Goemon's a true ninja back from the SNES and N64. Atlus was bought by SEGA and the SMT games have had a recent fondness for Nintendo... so let's put in Jack Frost! The blank Newcomer slot would be for Overlord Laharl from Disgaea, as his debut game was ported to the DS and he is basically my huge write-in because I love the series and there is a ton of actual weapon types and character specials in the main game. Geno's been argued to death. Cactuar is an iconic FF rep that few people think about, but he has appeared in two Mario sports games at this point. Marina Liteyears was from one of the best N64 games ever. Isaac and Sveta are on the Third Party line because there wasn't room elsewhere and I'm unsure what Camelot's stance is with Nintendo now, but Golden Sun could easily have two reps.

I think there are better choices for a Square Enix representative than Geno. No offense.

 

[Silverjay323]

Hmm little to no mention of Mother the entire day. Oh well. Happy 25th. No form of recognition from Nintendo...but they did the same thing with Metroid. I want to get my hopes up for the pic of the day but I'm not expecting too much...

 

[Burruni]

I think there are better choices for a Square Enix representative than Geno. No offense.

Geno represents Square back when they were Nintendo, Cactuar represents the Square Enix company in a grander sense., and Marina Lightyears is from the Enix side of the company.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Geno represents Square back when they were Nintendo, Cactuar represents the Square Enix company in a grander sense., and Marina Lightyears is from the Enix side of the company.

This is hilarious! Square was never owned by Nintendo, I.E. they would only deserve one representative, which Sakurai's requirements are pretty much big shots, which pretty much none of those are even close to that.

 

[mark welford]

I feel like I need to say this even though I know im going contradict myself by doing it anyway but we as smash fans and speculators can not expect a character reveal at every important Nintendo event that is something that I needed to get off my back because it has been bothering me for the longest time

 

[Pizzanigs]

I feel like I need to say this even though I know im going contradict myself by doing it anyway but we as smash fans and speculators can not expect a character reveal at every important Nintendo event that is something that I needed to get off my back because it has been bothering me for the longest time

...What?

 

[Burruni]

This is hilarious! Square was never owned by Nintendo, I.E. they would only deserve one representative, which Sakurai's requirements are pretty much big shots, which pretty much none of those are even close to that.

1) Late 1986-Mid 1996 they made games (almost) exclusively for Nintendo consoles except for a few ports onto PC alongside a couple smaller games. The reason they moved onto Sony was for Final Fantasy 7, which was too large of a game to be on a single N64 Cartridge with Square keeping their goal for the game true and you can't just switch Cartridges like Discs. They moved onto Sony because the PS1 FF games could only be on the PS1's hardware. After that, they stuck with Sony.
2) FF and DQ characters have been making appearances in Mario Spin-Offs since Hoops 3 on 3, so the two companies at least are on neutral terms in very recent history.
3) "Dream Roster." This is not meant to be entirely logical. Of this 79, somewhere between 50 and 60 I would not be surprised in being in Smash 4's roster. The rest are what I would like to see, but have little to no chance, thus the Dream part of the name. Yes, my three characters from Square and even Goemon aren't Nova-star 3rd party choices. However, there are a lot of 1st and 2nd party choices that aren't reasonable either.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Sonic can easily gain Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Cream, and Blaze due to each having unique abilities as a fighter


We talking 'bout Doc now? Give Mario a custom moveset involving pills for wisdom teeth

I like Sonic as a series (mainly Heroes, the Fighters, and Adventures 1 + 2) but I think if it was a bought out series it shouldn't deserve as much. Now I'm not saying treat them like how Microsoft treats Banjo and Conker, but don't make them the big star of the family. Remember how Woody felt when Buzz first came along in Toy Story? I feel like that's how fans of a franchise of say, Advanced Wars, or Golden Sun would feel if they let Sonic have that many reps. It doesn't deserve that many. Especially Cream, she's not even a Sega all-star imo.


Dr. Mario should be his own character, and Mario should be an alt.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

1) Late 1986-Mid 1996 they made games (almost) exclusively for Nintendo consoles except for a few ports onto PC alongside a couple smaller games. The reason they moved onto Sony was for Final Fantasy 7, which was too large of a game to be on a single N64 Cartridge with Square keeping their goal for the game true and you can't just switch Cartridges like Discs. They moved onto Sony because the PS1 FF games could only be on the PS1's hardware. After that, they stuck with Sony.
2) FF and DQ characters have been making appearances in Mario Spin-Offs since Hoops 3 on 3, so the two companies at least are on neutral terms in very recent history.
3) "Dream Roster." This is not meant to be entirely logical. Of this 79, somewhere between 50 and 60 I would not be surprised in being in Smash 4's roster. The rest are what I would like to see, but have little to no chance, thus the Dream part of the name. Yes, my three characters from Square and even Goemon aren't Nova-star 3rd party choices. However, there are a lot of 1st and 2nd party choices that aren't reasonable either.

Just because they made Nintendo Exclusive games doesn't mean they were ever owned by Nintendo.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Well technically if the pill operates just like a fireball then he can still be a costume

The Pill would look really odd on Mario's custom moves. Especially the giant, slowly moving pill.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I like Sonic as a series (mainly Heroes, the Fighters, and Adventures 1 + 2) but I think if it was a bought out series it shouldn't deserve as much. Now I'm not saying treat them like how Microsoft treats Banjo and Conker, but don't make them the big star of the family. Remember how Woody felt when Buzz first came along in Toy Story? I feel like that's how fans of a franchise of say, Advanced Wars, or Golden Sun would feel if they let Sonic have that many reps. It doesn't deserve that many. Especially Cream, she's not even a Sega all-star imo.

If that happened, then the Sonic franchise would indeed deserve to bowl over like that. They are a very successful and famous franchise, so as long as they have it match the number of Mario reps when the time comes, it's acceptable.

 

[mark welford]

The Pill would look really odd on Mario's custom moves. Especially the giant, slowly moving pill.

but what if it is a custom move of Mario it could be like wolf's blaster slow but flinch causing

 

[The Light Music Club]

If that happened, then the Sonic franchise would indeed deserve to bowl over like that. They are a very successful and famous franchise, so as long as they have it match the number of Mario reps when the time comes, it's acceptable.

I disagree, as they aren't a huge part of Nintendo's history to warrant the amount of Mario. They were rivals of Nintendo at one point even. I'm just glad it will never happen.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I disagree, as they aren't a huge part of Nintendo's history to warrant the amount of Mario. They were rivals of Nintendo at one point even. I'm just glad it will never happen.

I take it you either have never heard of Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, or you're biased because you don't want it to happen like that.

And it's fame over history, nice try

 

[mark welford]

I disagree, as they aren't a huge part of Nintendo's history to warrant the amount of Mario. They were rivals of Nintendo at one point even. I'm just glad it will never happen.

but it could as we get new installments to the series we as smash fans also expect the number of characters to increase in each installment for all we know they could already be planning SSB5

 

[Moon Monkey]

Me too, it is a shame when Sales dictate the system eh?

If that is not enough, here is a list of other things Pokemon has going for it:
-Easy translation into smash fighters
-Huge marketing capabilities (to draw in more fans, as well as by Game Freak, seen to get Smash fans into Pokemon)
-Vast Empire (Manga, TV, Movies, Trading Cards, Figures, Apps, Clothing, Merchandise beyond compare)
-800+ extremely diverse characters
-20 Years of history
-Worldwide Popularity
-Many types of characters it could represent beyond the basic Pokemon (trainers, rangers, breeders, coordinators, etc)
-Much in the main games to represent (abilities, items, weather and battlefield, double/triple/horde batles, typing, gender, contests, sports competitions, happiness, personality, trading, evolution-all different ways- etc)
-Multitude of types of games to choose from (Main RPG, Ranger, Mystery Dungeon, Snap, Pinball, Trozei, Puzzle League, Coliseum, ... the list is endless)

Sales are not the only factor. Popularity, Size, History, Impact, Relevance, Recency, Diversity, Adaptability, Growth.
Pokemon is unlike ANY other video game franchise, because it is far more than a video game franchise- it is studied on global economic trends as a phenomenon which is still not fully understood on a consumer trend and has not been replicated to this day.

How many reps does it deserve? Well, a good number. It is certainly on a scale to be evaluated separately from all other franchises as it is in a category all its own. A Pokemon added will appeal to a huge audience, regardless of which it is- an audience likely bigger than another given character added. I would not be surprised if it got more than six representatives, not surprised in the slightest, and it would be more than warranted, it would be earned.

I'm so glad you guys aren't working on the game... We would honestly have the rumored Pokken Fighters...

 

[Brother AJ]

I'm so psyched to learn the rest of the newcomers! I literally have no idea what's coming, although I have hopes, and that excites me to no end! Bring on the hype! September can't get here soon enough! Just a little more than a month to go everyone, and we'll finally have our roster! I just want it to be over already... :'( Really, I know I'm going to be disappointed probably, but a lot of the newcomers look so ****ing great so I'll be happy in the end regardless. Little Mac ftw ya'll!!!!!

Ok. Thanks for that clarification. I think King K. Rool, Duck Hunt Dog, and Shulk and maybe Ridley are the last newcomers, and all Brawl characters but Squritle and Ivysaur are coming back.

Nothing personal, but I really don't get the Duck Hunt request. I get that he's classic and, but seriously... what a vulgar game that was, and I cam only imagine how many more ducks would get hurt in his moveset. xD NO NO IT'S NOT FUNNY!

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I disagree, as they aren't a huge part of Nintendo's history to warrant the amount of Mario. They were rivals of Nintendo at one point even. I'm just glad it will never happen.

Never say never. Nintendo can always buy Sonic's rights from SEGA between now and Smash 5 and easily add a second and/or third Sonic rep in the next Smash