Character Discussion Thread

[Xenorange]

My entire stance on Sceptile is that he does complete the starter trinity and gives Hoenn its first rep as a fighter (as OR/AS has been in production for about as long as X/Y when you consider that Game Freak has a separate team for remakes than the original games) and that gives some reasoning for why he's worthy in comparison to some other Pokemon. As a fighter, he could be a Charizard-sized creature with good speed for his large size, an arsenal of zoning moves with that massive tail to really make him stand out in comparison to other fighters while keeping some fairly swift moves with claw swipes and Leaf Blade/Fury Cutter slashes with those wrist-blades. I'd love to see him playable, but he's basically the least likely of my big 4 Nintendo reps for the rest of the roster.

The only reason you consider him unlikely is because of his popularity correct?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

7 Pokemon reps in one Smash game? Ain't nobody got time for dat!

 

[Xenorange]

7 Pokemon reps in one Smash game? Ain't nobody got time for dat!

Pretty sure it's nintendo's highest grossing franchise atm correct? I could be wrong. That could be enough to warrant a high number of reps. Pokemon also has hundreds of characters. It would make sense for it to have the most reps IMO.

 

[Morbi]

Pretty sure it's nintendo's highest grossing franchise atm correct? I could be wrong. That could be enough to warrant a high number of reps. Pokemon also has hundreds of characters. It would make sense for it to have the most reps IMO.

I am fairly certain that he was joking as Smash intended to have seven Pokemon representatives in the last installment, five or six years ago.

 

[Xenorange]

I am fairly certain that he was joking as Smash intended to have seven Pokemon representatives in the last installment, five or six years ago.

Yeah, didn't notice the troll face until it was too late.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Wait, what?

What do you not understand?

The "Smash 3DS development complete, we'll know the starter roster in a few days" thing turned out to be bull****.

 

[Doompatron3000]

What do you not understand?

The "Smash 3DS development complete, we'll know the starter roster in a few days" thing turned out to be bull****.

Where did you here it was false? Where is your source of information?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

What do you not understand?

The "Smash 3DS development complete, we'll know the starter roster in a few days" thing turned out to be bull****.

I can understand English thank you

Where's the link for said information?

 

[Pizzanigs]

I hate when people use sales as an excuse to add characters to represent a franchise that is already represented well.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Where did you here it was false? Where is your source of information?

I can understand English thank you

Where's the link for said information?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122862565&postcount=4173

Masked Man is also the one who translated Sakurai's Famitsu interview.

 

[Doompatron3000]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122862565&postcount=4173

Masked Man is also the one who translated Sakurai's Famitsu interview.

So does that mean that CoroCoro telling us the "entire" roster is also false too?

 

[AncientTobacco]

So does that mean that CoroCoro telling us the "entire" roster is also false too?

Yes, though that's unrelated to this.

CoroCoro changed the text on their website some time ago, IIRC it's now saying "All announced characters and stages".

 

[Xenorange]

I hate when people use sales as an excuse to add characters to represent a franchise that is already represented well.

I'm sorry to hear that, however, whether you hate it or not, this factor most certainly contributes.

 

[Rockaphin]

It's generally accepted that Pokémon can have seven characters(which I'm ok with). But Nintendo's main franchise, Mario, cannot go past five.

And no, DK and Wario are not Mario characters. The only one that's debatable in my opinion is Yoshi. However, in Smash, Yoshi is considered his own.

Also, the argument implying that there aren't any other characters from the Mario franchise is bull crap. Bowser Jr., Captain Toad/Regular Toad, and Paper Mario are decently requested. Heck, even Waluigi, but I don't want to go there.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I hate when people use sales as an excuse to add characters to represent a franchise that is already represented well.

Just saying

 

[toobladooblasdfghtkdjdhfngj]

Just saying

[citation needed]

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Sales are nice and whatever, but I'd be royally pissed if a character only got added because"OH HEY DIS SERIES SELLS WELL".

Sakurai cares a lot about series balance, and about unique gameplay. If a character's only merit is "but it sells", a LOT of people will cast it aside. I don't want to play as Money. I want to play as something unique.

Sales are a good indicator, but they aren't the biggest one, and certainly shouldn't put somebody else in line ahead of another worthy option.

While I can understand how sales might show who MIGHT get added, and that Smash is an All-Star game, it's still a video game; one that is known for all the characters and having unique ones at that.

It frustrates me to no end that people ONLY use sales to justify a choice. I don't doubt Sceptile would be fun, but nobody cares if a game sells well. I want to hear ideas of what characters could do in Smash.

/rant

 

[Shorts]

So Ive noticed on the Wii U box art we are missing a few characters (compared to the 3DS box art)

I think by the time the Wii U version is released we will see a few DLC characters tacked onto the Wii U art.

 

[Sobreviviente]

[citation needed]

Dont talk like a robot >:B

Basically last game on the series, to show how a franchise is evolving.

nobody cares if a game sells well

Developers care.
Their games sells well if their franchises are good represented on smash and characters are fun to use, so, who wins is ours the consumers...

Sells are awesome

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Dont talk like a robot >:B

Basically last game on the series, to show how a franchise is evolving.

Developers care.
Their games sells well if their franchises are good represented on smash and characters are fun to use, so, who wins is ours the consumers...

Sells are awesome

I wasn't talking about developers. I was talking about people who play this game.

 

[False Sense]

Sales are nice and whatever, but I'd be royally pissed if a character only got added because"OH HEY DIS SERIES SELLS WELL".

Sakurai cares a lot about series balance, and about unique gameplay. If a character's only merit is "but it sells", a LOT of people will cast it aside. I don't want to play as Money. I want to play as something unique.

Sales are a good indicator, but they aren't the biggest one, and certainly shouldn't put somebody else in line ahead of another worthy option.

While I can understand how sales might show who MIGHT get added, and that Smash is an All-Star game, it's still a video game; one that is known for all the characters and having unique ones at that.

It frustrates me to no end that people ONLY use sales to justify a choice. I don't doubt Sceptile would be fun, but nobody cares if a game sells well. I want to hear ideas of what characters could do in Smash.

/rant

Do you think a good substitute for the word "sales" would be popularity amongst fans? I mean, it's one thing if a game sells well, but if it's a game people really like and would want to see represented in Smash, I think a good case could be made for including a character from said game.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I feel sales is a good indicator as to what is popular amongst fans and what isn't honestly. Mario, Pokemon and Zelda characters are the most well recognised because funnily enough they have the best sales. Statistically speaking the average schmo is going to be more interested in a character they know than don't.

There are of course other factors as to what can garner interest such as certain characters from series having other attributes that can get even the most casual Nintendo fan interested in them; examples; Ridley's a big scary ass dragon; dragons are cool, Shulk has a badass huge sword; swords are cool, etc.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I feel sales is a good indicator as to what is popular amongst fans and what isn't honestly. Mario, Pokemon and Zelda characters are the most well recognised because funnily enough they have the best sales. Statistically speaking the average schmo is going to be more interested in a character they know than don't.

There are of course other factors as to what can garner interest such as certain characters from series having other attributes that can get even the most casual Nintendo fan interested in them; examples; Ridley's a big scary *** dragon; dragons are cool, Shulk has a badass huge sword; swords are cool, etc.

Another one is that Waddle Dee wears a bandanna like a gang member; gangs are cool.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Another one is that Waddle Dee wears a bandanna like a gang member; gangs are cool.

I think that depends on where you live and what environment you grow up in

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Another one is that Waddle Dee wears a bandanna like a gang member; gangs are cool.

Now I'm imagining Bandanna Dee in a rap battle with Jigglypuff wearing her green karate band with their posse behind them.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I wasn't talking about developers. I was talking about people who play this game.

Yes, and my point is that developers care about what the people who play this game want.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I hate when people use sales as an excuse to add characters to represent a franchise that is already represented well.

Me too, it is a shame when Sales dictate the system eh?

If that is not enough, here is a list of other things Pokemon has going for it:
-Easy translation into smash fighters
-Huge marketing capabilities (to draw in more fans, as well as by Game Freak, seen to get Smash fans into Pokemon)
-Vast Empire (Manga, TV, Movies, Trading Cards, Figures, Apps, Clothing, Merchandise beyond compare)
-800+ extremely diverse characters
-20 Years of history
-Worldwide Popularity
-Many types of characters it could represent beyond the basic Pokemon (trainers, rangers, breeders, coordinators, etc)
-Much in the main games to represent (abilities, items, weather and battlefield, double/triple/horde batles, typing, gender, contests, sports competitions, happiness, personality, trading, evolution-all different ways- etc)
-Multitude of types of games to choose from (Main RPG, Ranger, Mystery Dungeon, Snap, Pinball, Trozei, Puzzle League, Coliseum, ... the list is endless)

Sales are not the only factor. Popularity, Size, History, Impact, Relevance, Recency, Diversity, Adaptability, Growth.
Pokemon is unlike ANY other video game franchise, because it is far more than a video game franchise- it is studied on global economic trends as a phenomenon which is still not fully understood on a consumer trend and has not been replicated to this day.

How many reps does it deserve? Well, a good number. It is certainly on a scale to be evaluated separately from all other franchises as it is in a category all its own. A Pokemon added will appeal to a huge audience, regardless of which it is- an audience likely bigger than another given character added. I would not be surprised if it got more than six representatives, not surprised in the slightest, and it would be more than warranted, it would be earned.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Me too, it is a shame when Sales dictate the system eh?

If that is not enough, here is a list of other things Pokemon has going for it:
-Easy translation into smash fighters
-Huge marketing capabilities (to draw in more fans, as well as by Game Freak, seen to get Smash fans into Pokemon)
-Vast Empire (Manga, TV, Movies, Trading Cards, Figures, Apps, Clothing, Merchandise beyond compare)
-800+ extremely diverse characters
-20 Years of history
-Worldwide Popularity
-Many types of characters it could represent beyond the basic Pokemon (trainers, rangers, breeders, coordinators, etc)
-Much in the main games to represent (abilities, items, weather and battlefield, double/triple/horde batles, typing, gender, contests, sports competitions, happiness, personality, trading, evolution-all different ways- etc)
-Multitude of types of games to choose from (Main RPG, Ranger, Mystery Dungeon, Snap, Pinball, Trozei, Puzzle League, Coliseum, ... the list is endless)

Sales are not the only factor. Popularity, Size, History, Impact, Relevance, Recency, Diversity, Adaptability, Growth.
Pokemon is unlike ANY other video game franchise, because it is far more than a video game franchise- it is studied on global economic trends as a phenomenon which is still not fully understood on a consumer trend and has not been replicated to this day.

How many reps does it deserve? Well, a good number. It is certainly on a scale to be evaluated separately from all other franchises as it is in a category all its own. A Pokemon added will appeal to a huge audience, regardless of which it is- an audience likely bigger than another given character added. I would not be surprised if it got more than six representatives, not surprised in the slightest, and it would be more than warranted, it would be earned.

I feel like this is a good reasoning as to why Pokémon could warrant more playable characters than Mario. Yes, Mario is more popular and its video games sells better, but Pokémon is a different kind of phenomenon. On top of video games Pokémon also has a successful Anime, TCG and Manga running, it definitely sells more merchandise than almost anything else, while Mario is bigger than it in the video game world I feel as a whole Pokémon probably makes more money in the end. Now I don't think it's all about money of course, but it means Pokémon has a different kind of impact, it's practically everywhere.

On the Smash front there are also still a limited number of Mario characters that are exciting to include in this game, Game Freak always makes sure to front multiple Pokémon in merchandising at once and I dare say almost every Pokémon can translate well into a Smash fighter, excluding itsy bitsy ones like Weedle and Corphish, so no matter who the spotlight is shining on they can always make that into a Smash fighter. Heck, Pichu got in, I think that says a ton.

I pretty much just restated what you said, but it's a great post.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well I just hope they won't take over 7 characters. This is supposed to be a celebration about Nintendo as a whole.
Right, Pokemon is really big. Thus why 1 more character won't bump up its popularity any higher.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I feel like this is a good reasoning as to why Pokémon could warrant more playable characters than Mario. Yes, Mario is more popular and its video games sells better, but Pokémon is a different kind of phenomenon. On top of video games Pokémon also has a successful Anime, TCG and Manga running, it definitely sells more merchandise than almost anything else, while Mario is bigger than it in the video game world I feel as a whole Pokémon probably makes more money in the end. Now I don't think it's all about money of course, but it means Pokémon has a different kind of impact, it's practically everywhere.

On the Smash front there are also still a limited number of Mario characters that are exciting to include in this game, Game Freak always makes sure to front multiple Pokémon in merchandising at once and I dare say almost every Pokémon can translate well into a Smash fighter, excluding itsy bitsy ones like Weedle and Corphish, so no matter who the spotlight is shining on they can always make that into a Smash fighter. Heck, Pichu got in, I think that says a ton.

I pretty much just restated what you said, but it's a great post.

Exactly; Mario is limited, as you stated. Not to mention, all of its characters have broken off to become separate things.
To be more clear, though, the Marioverse will always have more representatives, and I think that is why it is okay.
Mario, Yoshi, DK, Wario- they are all part of the Marioverse. I think arguing subfranchise or not gets tedious, because there are a plethora of different series' within Marios name, all given the mainstay IPs because Nintendo is accustomed to doing this for Marketing reasons.
Luigi's Mansion and Captain Toad should warrant those characters as separate characters to me, yet they will unlikely be seen as such. They are all in Mario's family, as is DK, as is Wario, as is Waluigi who is now it seems a Warioware character since it makes sense aethetically to Sakurai (and is prepping us for his inclusion in the next Smash game as a Wario character).

In short- Pokemon will not be overslotted to Mario, because Mario is so big it gets to be more than one franchise.

 

[toobladooblasdfghtkdjdhfngj]

With Pokemon, the developers can get away with anything they feel like considering many Pokemon already fill some sort of niche that can translate into a fighting game. Fighting types are the most notable examples considering the majority of those Pokemon are already based on some sort of fighting style, however other kinds of Pokemon can also freely make the transition depending on what is suitable.

 

[Second Power]

New theory on Dark Pit: He's a boss and an alt. How? No one said all the alts will be the same between versions. Dark Pit is a 3DS exclusive 'costume' while on the Wii U version he's a boss on Palutena's Temple.

 

[mahnamahna]

Me too, it is a shame when Sales dictate the system eh?

If that is not enough, here is a list of other things Pokemon has going for it:
-Easy translation into smash fighters
-Huge marketing capabilities (to draw in more fans, as well as by Game Freak, seen to get Smash fans into Pokemon)
-Vast Empire (Manga, TV, Movies, Trading Cards, Figures, Apps, Clothing, Merchandise beyond compare)
-800+ extremely diverse characters
-20 Years of history
-Worldwide Popularity
-Many types of characters it could represent beyond the basic Pokemon (trainers, rangers, breeders, coordinators, etc)
-Much in the main games to represent (abilities, items, weather and battlefield, double/triple/horde batles, typing, gender, contests, sports competitions, happiness, personality, trading, evolution-all different ways- etc)
-Multitude of types of games to choose from (Main RPG, Ranger, Mystery Dungeon, Snap, Pinball, Trozei, Puzzle League, Coliseum, ... the list is endless)

Sales are not the only factor. Popularity, Size, History, Impact, Relevance, Recency, Diversity, Adaptability, Growth.
Pokemon is unlike ANY other video game franchise, because it is far more than a video game franchise- it is studied on global economic trends as a phenomenon which is still not fully understood on a consumer trend and has not been replicated to this day.

How many reps does it deserve? Well, a good number. It is certainly on a scale to be evaluated separately from all other franchises as it is in a category all its own. A Pokemon added will appeal to a huge audience, regardless of which it is- an audience likely bigger than another given character added. I would not be surprised if it got more than six representatives, not surprised in the slightest, and it would be more than warranted, it would be earned.

Well thought out post!

I'd say this makes the most sense as far as franchise tier -

1. Mario (not counting Yoshi, DK or Wario), Zelda and Pokemon - 10 reps max
2. DK, Retros, Fire Emblem - 7 reps max (I could see retros and Fire Emblem moving to 8-10, but that would take a while)
3. Kirby - 6 reps max (really aside from Bandana Dee and Knuckle Joe, I can't think of any other Kirby characters to add anyways so 6 is a good number)
4. Sonic (if SSB ever gets past 75+ characters), Star Fox, Metroid - 5 reps max
5. Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Animal Crossing, WarioWare (eventually - by SSB6 or SSB7) - 4 reps max
6. Mother, Megaman, Pikmin, Xenoblade, PunchOut!, Wii - 3 reps max
7. Golden Sun, Bayonetta, Chibi-Robo, Splatoon, Yoshi - 2 reps max (Splatoon just looks cool and Bayonetta appears to be a buddling franchise)
8. Everything else - 1 rep until the franchise proves itself

10 3rd parties is probably the maximum I could ever see and that would be if the series ever gets past 100 characters.

I know it might be crazy to rank the franchises, but in terms of how many reps each franchise should/could have, that's probably about right at the moment. Anything could change over the next decade or so, though!

 

[Deleted member]

So Ive noticed on the Wii U box art we are missing a few characters (compared to the 3DS box art)

I think by the time the Wii U version is released we will see a few DLC characters tacked onto the Wii U art.

We're not "missing" anyone.
Both covers feature different characters.

3DS cover has Little Mac, Rosalina, Marth, and Yoshi.
Wii U cover has Peach, Wii Fit Trainer, and Donkey Kong.

Only thing that can be stretched to be considered "missing" is that the 3DS cover has 11 characters while the Wii U cover has 10.

 

[mahnamahna]

Well I just hope they won't take over 7 characters. This is supposed to be a celebration about Nintendo as a whole.
Right, Pokemon is really big. Thus why 1 more character won't bump up its popularity any higher.

Maybe later on (SSB5), I could see more than 7. Right now, 6 or 7 sounds perfect. Johto, Unova, Hoenn and Team Rocket are currently unrepresented so I could understand why more characters would be warranted aside from Greninja.

1. Pikachu
2. Jigglypuff
3. Charizard
4. Mewtwo
5. Togepi (Johto representation + baby Pokemon that isn't a clone of Pikachu)
6. Sceptile
7. Team Rocket (could have a hammy Wile Coyote fighting style - maybe nothing to do with actual Pokemon, just traps, explosives, etc)
8. Lucario
9. Genesect or Zoroark
10. Greninja

That'd be an ideal, well-rounded representation of all 6 current generations.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Ideally, I would like to see Pokemon represented by;

• Pikachu
• Lucario (secondary mascot)
• Mewtwo (most powerful legendary, antagonist somewhat, original badass)
• Pokemon Trainer (using summons and captures in pokeball, reflective of main player in most Pokemon games, and unique fighter in own accord). I would want his summons to include Squirtle, Charmander, and Bulbasaur, because I think the original trio deserve to all be represented.
• Team Rocket (similar to how trickster Wile E. Coyote method describe, but all with faux-Pokemon type of things, and items actually used here, such silph scope, or otherwise specific items outside of the main game). Techniques would also involve Meowth being seen in some way, but not as a fighter.
• Pokemon Ranger (who fights with all the Eeveelutions, thusly showcasing both a wide array of different Pokemon, evolution, and still being in canon to not have Eevee evolving for each attack; more importantly, showcases another very important type of Pokemon interact-or and main game)
• Charizard
• Sceptile
• Greninja

Nine is a lot, absolutely. So for now, I would settle with Seven; but I am hopeful for Eight, and i'm hopeful Sakurai can beat me to being more creative and fulfilling.

 

[Burruni]

The only reason you consider him unlikely is because of his popularity correct?

No. I believe Sceptile is likely. There are basically 4 gates it would have to go through: Gamefreak highlights Sceptile to Sakurai, he likes the design and sees potential for the character as a unique fighter, Sceptile fits in the roster as a 6th/7th Pokémon rep alongside Jigglypuff (and possibly Mewtwo) ontop of those we know, Sceptile isn't cut during development. I believe 1 and 2 could easily happen with Ivysaur probably cut. 3 is arguable, ESPECIALLY if Mewtwo is returning. We are blind to the 4th gate if Sceptile was/is in the roster.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Well thought out post!

I'd say this makes the most sense as far as franchise tier -

1. Mario (not counting Yoshi, DK or Wario), Zelda and Pokemon - 10 reps max
2. DK, Retros, Fire Emblem - 7 reps max (I could see retros and Fire Emblem moving to 8-10, but that would take a while)
3. Kirby - 6 reps max (really aside from Bandana Dee and Knuckle Joe, I can't think of any other Kirby characters to add anyways so 6 is a good number)
4. Sonic (if SSB ever gets past 75+ characters), Star Fox, Metroid - 5 reps max
5. Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Animal Crossing, WarioWare (eventually - by SSB6 or SSB7) - 4 reps max
6. Mother, Megaman, Pikmin, Xenoblade, PunchOut!, Wii - 3 reps max
7. Golden Sun, Bayonetta, Chibi-Robo, Splatoon, Yoshi - 2 reps max (Splatoon just looks cool and Bayonetta appears to be a buddling franchise)
8. Everything else - 1 rep until the franchise proves itself

10 3rd parties is probably the maximum I could ever see and that would be if the series ever gets past 100 characters.

I know it might be crazy to rank the franchises, but in terms of how many reps each franchise should/could have, that's probably about right at the moment. Anything could change over the next decade or so, though!

If any of those bolded Franchises do get that many, I'm quitting Smash Bros. A guest franchise better NEVER get a 2nd character, and Splatoon has characters that could all be alts. Chibi-robo to my knowledge only has Chibi as a suitable character. Yoshi deserves up to 4 any way counting Baby Bros. and Birdo, even Kamek, especially if Wario gets that many.

 

[Opossum]

If any of those bolded Franchises do get that many, I'm quitting Smash Bros. A guest franchise better NEVER get a 2nd character, and Splatoon has characters that could all be alts. Chibi-robo to my knowledge only has Chibi as a suitable character. Yoshi deserves up to 4 any way counting Baby Bros. and Birdo, even Kamek, especially if Wario gets that many.

In theory, Chibi-Robo has Drake Redcrest for a potential second character. Not like that'll happen any time soon though.

 

[EmceeEspio]

If any of those bolded Franchises do get that many, I'm quitting Smash Bros. A guest franchise better NEVER get a 2nd character, and Splatoon has characters that could all be alts. Chibi-robo to my knowledge only has Chibi as a suitable character. Yoshi deserves up to 4 any way counting Baby Bros. and Birdo, even Kamek, especially if Wario gets that many.

I wouldn't mind multiple Sonic or Mega Man reps next time around.

Especially if they were, say, Shadow/Tails, or Proto Man.

In fact I think they'd be great DLC choices.