• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Character Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

ElPanandero

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
1,100
NNID
ElPanandero
Jeeze, remind me never to upset Mega Man fans. Glad I didn't stick around for that impending argument.
Or the other giant argument that ensued.

Zelda? All I want is a new Ganondorf. Though...

Time to bring back this fellow. :troll:

He could function as a semi-transformation character, only changing for individual specials using the three transformation masks.
He could even use the Fierce Deity or Giant Mask as a final smash to rampage across the stage with. :troll:
But actually, throw him in the game as the Mokujin/Charade character. That'd be too sweet. I'm serious.

Happy Mask Salesman for Smash!
 

Dalek_Kolt

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
3,557
Location
Skaro
Your basing a character's likelihood on stages?

Okay.
Is there anything wrong with that?

All the newcomers so far have had home stages unique to them. Little Mac has the Boxing Ring, Greninja has Lumiose City, Pac-Man has the Namco stages, Mega Man has Wily Castle, Villager has Town and City and Tortimer Island, Rosalina has Mario Galaxy...

Ghirahim has...Skyloft?

...Did he ever even go there in Skyward Sword?
 
Last edited:

ElPanandero

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
1,100
NNID
ElPanandero
There's actually a long dead support thread, I'm sure we could get support rolling for DLC or something. :troll:
I think I just found my .0001% support character.

But actually I think smash would be cool if it had a mokujin, there's gotta be a candidate out there somewhere, It would take less time to make than clone too.
 

SmashChu

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,924
Location
Tampa FL
You sir are opening a can of worms with that kinda talk. :p

And not everyone thought Chrom was getting in prior to the leak, things were fairly divided between him, Robin, Lucina, and Roy at least, even if all those camps weren't of the same size. Sure some people thought he was getting in regardless, but prior to the leak it certainly wasn't everyone.
Chrom was always expected to get in. Lucina and Robin weren't taken seriously. The Robin thread and the Chrom thread were about the same views. Lucina's thread wasn't close. Outside of Smashboards, Robin never came up. Chrom is also the main character of Awakening.

Gamatsu's fakeoff: Sal's original forum post had, even in his words, unlikely predictions. Mostly that people didn't expect Wii Fit and Animal Crossing to get characters. Still, these made sense given they were blockbuster franchises. After that, the next "leak", in April, would have very safe predictions. Palutena, Shulk and Chrom were all heavily discussed and were, for the most part, expected. Hell, he even had "Pokemon from X/Y." He didn't even attempt to guess the Pokemon. Chrous Kids were the only odd ball exception but Rhythm Heaven doesn't have a main character. Chrous Kids were at least a major game in the DS version. But again, the character was more picked for the franchise than the character itself. The characters Sal got wrong were ones that came out of left field: Rosalina and Robin. Rosalina was the same way. Mario characters that came up included Waluigi, Toad, and Bowser Jr. Rosalina wasn't really talked about, until it happened. There is a reason he didn't get it. He missed Robin for the same reason. Sakurai went against Chrom, the favorite, and went with Robin because he'd make a more interesting character. Sal picked Chrom because he was easy. He picked easy guesses most of the time. Why do you think he said his contact said Shulk was going to be shown on July 14? Because everyone else was already saying it. It was a safe bet, until it failed.

Again. Leak was fake. Chrom was the favorite.
 
Last edited:

The Light Music Club

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 25, 2013
Messages
3,225
Location
Knoxville, MD/Elizabethtown, PA
NNID
_TLMC_
3DS FC
0576-6097-0725
Chrom was always expected to get in. Lucina and Robin weren't taken seriously. The Robin thread and the Chrom thread were about the same views. Lucina's thread wasn't close. Outside of Smashboards, Robin never came up. Chrom is also the main character of Awakening.

Gamatsu's fakeoff: Sal's original forum post had, even in his words, unlikely predictions. Mostly that people didn't expect Wii Fit and Animal Crossing to get characters. Still, these made sense given they were blockbuster franchises. After that, the next "leak", in April, would have very safe predictions. Palutena, Shulk and Chrom were all heavily discussed and were, for the most part, expected. Hell, he even had "Pokemon from X/Y." He didn't even attempt to guess the Pokemon. Chrous Kids were the only odd ball exception but Rhythm Heaven doesn't have a main character. Chrous Kids were at least a major game in the DS version. But again, the character was more picked for the franchise than the character itself. The characters Sal got wrong were ones that came out of left field: Rosalina and Robin. Rosalina was the same way. Mario characters that came up included Waluigi, Toad, and Bowser Jr. Rosalina wasn't really talked about, until it happened. There is a reason he didn't get it. He missed Robin for the same reason. Sakurai went against Chrom, the favorite, and went with Robin because he'd make a more interesting character. Sal picked Chrom because he was easy. He picked easy guesses most of the time. Why do you think he said his contact said Shulk was going to be shown on July 14? Because everyone else was already saying it. It was a safe bet, until it failed.

Again. Leak was fake. Chrom was the favorite.
Some of this I agree with, but once I joined the boards and learned I was stupid to think Ike was gonna get replaced, I never again thought Chrom was gonna be in the game. I picked Marth, Ike, Robin, and Micaiah. Not everyone thought Chrom.
 

God Robert's Cousin

Smash Hero
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
5,300
Location
Dustbowl
NNID
RepaignPalsims
3DS FC
4339-2483-2603
I honestly believe that you have not played each of these Zelda games. You claiming that they are all static characters, and all...

Where do you get the idea that I said popularity > gameplay? QUOTE ME!

You can't cause I never said that.

I'm arguing that the six zelda rep is likely going to an antagonist. Of the possible antagonists, Ghirahim wins that spot due to my previous reasons of popularity, depth of character, and yes, gameplay potentional.

Why would I show you a quote from sakurai about line dialogue if I never said that that is what he looks for...?
On the contrary, I've beaten a great amount Zelda games. ALttP, LA, OoT, MM, OoS, WW, MC, FS, FSA, ST, SS, and ALBW. I know plenty of what I'm talking about, thank you very much. As for static character, this is what I mean:
Dictionary.com said:
static character
noun
a literary or dramatic character who undergoes little or no inner change; a character who does not grow or develop
Honestly, how many Zelda villains can you say reach that definition? Byrne was one example considering he ends up as a good guy at the end of Spirit Tracks... Almost no other major antagonists come to mind for that.

As for what you said in regards to gameplay, I never said you said popularity is more important than gameplay. I said that you're saying that how well a character is written is the factor that gets them into Smash Bros. I'll quote that back to you.
That's the point. He is much more likeable. He is a wholly developed character. Much more than Zant, and the others were. Sakurai is more likely to add a more likeable and popular character than one that did not stick with us as well.

You think Chancellor Cole has the same chance as Ghirahim? No, of course you don't. That'd be stupid. Because Character Writing plays a huge role in what characters the fan base demand. Ghirahim has that. That's why he is has a bigger shot in this game compared to Zant with Brawl.
So don't tell me "Why would I show you a quote from sakurai about line dialogue if I never said that" when it's damned obvious you did right there in bold yellow letters.

You're not displaying much understanding of how game design works when you think the selection between characters comes down to who was better written than who has better gameplay potential. You can ask any decent game developer and they will tell you that if you don't design good gameplay before your aesthetics in a game, it's going to be a crappy game. See: Any modern Final Fantasy game.

I'm saying I don't think we're likely to even get another Zelda character at all. With Vaati all but forgotten, Tingle a confirmed Assist Trophy, Impa and Tetra having nothing that particularly stands out, and Ghirahim being another in a series of one-shot characters that'll be regulated to the rest of the B-list villains, there are no decent choices for a Zelda character. Hell, I'm willing to bet that if we do get another Zelda character, it'll be Toon Zelda to beef up the roster, since Sakurai has already shown he's willing to add clones yet again, and her existence in Brawl's files shows she could have very well been a last-minute semi-clone of Zelda.

Base case scenario for Ghirahim? He'll be a very rough candidate for DLC if Isaac, K. Rool, Roy, Mewtwo, and an assortment of other more requested characters get in first. He's not making it into the base game, especially not for the half-assed reasons you've been giving. If you want to make a case for his gameplay, quit giving me your other trashy arguments about developed characters and start giving me more of that. You're making it painfully obvious otherwise that you don't care what Ghirahim would add to the roster, so long as he's in the game as a playable character in some way.
 

TumblrFamous

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
6,070
Location
Gainesville, Florida
Switch FC
SW-8429-6803-3691
Is there anything wrong with that?

All the newcomers so far have had home stages unique to them. Little Mac has the Boxing Ring, Greninja has Lumiose City, Pac-Man has the Namco stages, Mega Man has Wily Castle, Villager has Town and City and Tortimer Island, Rosalina has Mario Galaxy...

Ghirahim has...Skyloft?

...Did he ever even go there in Skyward Sword?
I honestly don't think the selection of stages affects character choices, or vice versa. I mean, that's just my honest opinion.

I do see your point, however.
 

NickerBocker

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
1,091
Location
AB, Canada
3DS FC
2492-4251-5054
Ganondorf and Ghirahaim aren't in the same category.

Sticking with 2nd tier Antagonists, Screentime and dialogue makes a difference for all of the antagonists in that tier. Zant, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Vaatti, etc. That is who is being compared. Not the highest tier and iconic villain.
If you are going to argue that, argue within the tier. For 2nd level Zelda Antagonists.

Sales matter? I agree to some level. Not as much as you do though...

But...

And Ghirahim's game sold much more than Vaatti's. :troll:
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda
The combination of Vaati's games sold more, but we can't really compare that situation. The console games generally sell more than the handhelds anyway.

Fair enough. I will compare Ghirahim to Zant then, who is much more similar anyways.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make about Ganondorf. But at the time of a OoT, Ganondorf was not the main villain, Ganon was (although they ended up being one in the same, we know that Ganon can exist without a Ganondorf. Ganon is the revival of the evil lord Demise, Ganondorf hails from the Gerudo lands.) But i digress.

Zant and Ghirahim are both one shot villains, from the most recent game (coming out before the next Smash that is.) As was said earlier, less is sometimes more. Zant is mysterious and has a tragic background story. He didn't get a lot of screentime, but it was effective. Ghirahim was in your face, trying to stop you at every turn. IIRC, Ghirahim was there almost after every temple to thwart you. He had plenty of dialogue and screentime. I can compare the stories of Zant and Ghirahim pretty well, because Ganondorf/Demise turns out to be the true villain in the end. They are similar characters in that sense and in a lot of ways, only they are different in personality.

You can't claim Ghirahim is more popular. Sure, he may be the flavor of the month, but the sales of the games say otherwise. Zant has had twice the exposure to public awareness, and while his popularity remains dormant as of late, Ghirahim may be in the same position after Sm4sh and HW comes and goes. I can't see the future, but I have ssen this happen before time and time again.

But we have different opinions I suppose, so we will just leave it at that.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
Chrom was always expected to get in. Lucina and Robin weren't taken seriously. The Robin thread and the Chrom thread were about the same views. Lucina's thread wasn't close. Outside of Smashboards, Robin never came up. Chrom is also the main character of Awakening.
Yeah everyone expected Chrom and Chrom only. That must be why we never had any Fire Emblem discussions or arguments. :rolleyes:

Gamatsu's fakeoff: Sal's original forum post had, even in his words, unlikely predictions. Mostly that people didn't expect Wii Fit and Animal Crossing to get characters. Still, these made sense given they were blockbuster franchises. After that, the next "leak", in April, would have very safe predictions. Palutena, Shulk and Chrom were all heavily discussed and were, for the most part, expected. Hell, he even had "Pokemon from X/Y." He didn't even attempt to guess the Pokemon. Chrous Kids were the only odd ball exception but Rhythm Heaven doesn't have a main character. Chrous Kids were at least a major game in the DS version. But again, the character was more picked for the franchise than the character itself. The characters Sal got wrong were ones that came out of left field: Rosalina and Robin. Rosalina was the same way. Mario characters that came up included Waluigi, Toad, and Bowser Jr. Rosalina wasn't really talked about, until it happened. There is a reason he didn't get it. He missed Robin for the same reason. Sakurai went against Chrom, the favorite, and went with Robin because he'd make a more interesting character. Sal picked Chrom because he was easy. He picked easy guesses most of the time. Why do you think he said his contact said Shulk was going to be shown on July 14? Because everyone else was already saying it. It was a safe bet, until it failed.

Again. Leak was fake. Chrom was the favorite.
The funny thing is no matter what characters the leak might've correctly predicted, whether all or none, you'll still twist it to how you want to see it. I'm not Sakurai, and he's the only one who gets you to change your opinion, often begrudgingly I'd assume. I know better than to start a debate with you Chu.

Plus sensible picks =/= safe picks.
 

Gold_Jacobson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
397
On the contrary, I've beaten a great amount Zelda games. ALttP, LA, OoT, MM, OoS, WW, MC, FS, FSA, ST, SS, and ALBW. I know plenty of what I'm talking about, thank you very much. As for static character, this is what I mean:

Honestly, how many Zelda villains can you say reach that definition? Byrne was one example considering he ends up as a good guy at the end of Spirit Tracks... Almost no other major antagonists come to mind for that.

As for what you said in regards to gameplay, I never said you said popularity is more important than gameplay. I said that you're saying that how well a character is written is the factor that gets them into Smash Bros. I'll quote that back to you.

So don't tell me "Why would I show you a quote from sakurai about line dialogue if I never said that" when it's damned obvious you did right there in bold yellow letters.

You're not displaying much understanding of how game design works when you think the selection between characters comes down to who was better written than who has better gameplay potential. You can ask any decent game developer and they will tell you that if you don't design good gameplay before your aesthetics in a game, it's going to be a crappy game. See: Any modern Final Fantasy game.

I'm saying I don't think we're likely to even get another Zelda character at all. With Vaati all but forgotten, Tingle a confirmed Assist Trophy, Impa and Tetra having nothing that particularly stands out, and Ghirahim being another in a series of one-shot characters that'll be regulated to the rest of the B-list villains, there are no decent choices for a Zelda character. Hell, I'm willing to bet that if we do get another Zelda character, it'll be Toon Zelda to beef up the roster, since Sakurai has already shown he's willing to add clones yet again, and her existence in Brawl's files shows she could have very well been a last-minute semi-clone of Zelda.

Base case scenario for Ghirahim? He'll be a very rough candidate for DLC if Isaac, K. Rool, Roy, Mewtwo, and an assortment of other more requested characters get in first. He's not making it into the base game, especially not for the half-***** reasons you've been giving. If you want to make a case for his gameplay, quit giving me your other trashy arguments about developed characters and start giving me more of that. You're making it painfully obvious otherwise that you don't care what Ghirahim would add to the roster, so long as he's in the game as a playable character in some way.

I actually agree that most of the 2nd tier antagonists are static, minus Ghirahim.

I said, "plays a huge role." It still does. I didn't say it was the most important thing. And it does, it leads to popularity and likeness. Any character can be made unique. I'm assuming you could do that with any character. Cause you could if you tried enough. See Captain Falcon.

"You're not displaying much understanding of how game design works when you think the selection between characters comes down to who was better written than who has better gameplay potential."

Yeah, you keep making up quotes from me. Where did I say this? Quit making **** up. You are wasting my time. That yellow text that you quoted me was that "writing plays a role". You are making up arguments to argue against. Quote me where I said writing is more than gameplay. Not worth talking to you till you actually do, cause you are making up arguments to argue against.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
But at the time of a OoT, Ganondorf was not the main villain, Ganon was (although they ended up being one in the same, we know that Ganon can exist without a Ganondorf. Ganon is the revival of the evil lord Demise, Ganondorf hails from the Gerudo lands.) But i digress.
....wait.
Are you trying to claim that Ganondorf and Ganon are not one and the same?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cobalsh

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
2,944
Location
Location
3DS FC
2578-3430-9913
The Fighter's Generation had a good post about paid DLC I like ,and I want this here for future reference. All credit to TFG, I didn't type this, blah blah blah.
As you probably know, there are 12 additional characters that appear in the portable, Playstation Vita version of the game. These characters were later released as purchasable DLC for the console versions on July 31st, 2012. The fact that the data for the characters, alternate costumes and colors was previously discovered on the disc (by hackers) stirred up quite the conspiracy, and the "Capcom hate machine" bandwagon of 2012 was born.
I didn't join the hate bandwagon in the mid 90's and, once again, I'm not joining it. On that note, I'd like to give my two cents on the matter. . .

Some gamers felt "cheated" that this content is already on the disc, because to access it, they have to purchase a small file that simply "unlocks" it when it becomes available. They feel entitled to the content from the start, since they bought and "own" the physical disc. Capcom explained that the information is on the disc in order to "save hard drive space and to ensure for a smooth transition when the DLC is available".The data also allows people to play against the 12 new characters & see the alternate costumes when they're released if they choose notto purchase them. Personally, nothing about this format bothers me, but some gamers out there seem to have a "false sense of entitlement and expectation".

Something that the rabid complainers fail to realize is that this DLC was originallydeveloped with the intent of being DLC. That means it potentially wouldn't even exist in the first place without the DLC distribution process. Believe it. It doesn't matter if it's locked on-disc DLC, day 1 DLC, or month 6 DLC. I wholeheartedly agree that a product should be complete when it's released, but the thing is... SF X Tekken could've very easily been called "complete" at around 25-30 characters. Fans should be thankful that the dev-team took the extra time & effort to create 12 additional characters. (Too bad that "effort" didn't show up in some other areas of the game, though).


SF X Tekken includes 43 iconic characters from the start (PS3 version). That's far above the standard for a new fighting game. Gamers complaining about not being able to use the other 12 characters right off the bat (which weren't even finished at the time), are being a bit greedy I think. I understand their point of view, and they have a right to feel that way if they choose. I can only speak for myself... and I don't feel cheated. I'm glad I didn't have to buy a new disc-based "Super" version ofSFXT. I agree Capcom could've made better decisions on the business front, but as a long time fan, I think we're lucky to have this many characters in the game. The fact that Capcom continued supporting SFXT with 12 additional characters after the initial release (superb choices at that), only sweetens the deal.

In continuation, I think some of the "new" fighting game fans need to take a step back and get some perspective. In the early 90's, many of us used to play Street Fighter 2 (among many other games) at arcades, religiously... putting in 50 cents, with each play, to use a few of those 8-12 characters over and over (and over times 1000). Even after I bought several variations of the home versions of SF2 (at $70 a pop) I still put money into those arcade machines... and you know what? If for some reason you weren't a "good" player at your arcade, you had to pay MORE money... AND LIKE IT... or you could go home as a sore loser and play your SNES or Genesis version by yourself and pretend to have friends.
YEAH... I SAID IT.

History has repeated itself many a time. Over the course of a decade, I must've spent 100's of dollars on MVC2 in the arcades. Then I bought the Dreamcast version when it came out, and guess what... I still put gas in my car, drove to the arcade, and put countless dollars into that MVC2 machine for many years to come. I did the same thing when Tekken 5 came out in arcades and on PS2. I even traveled to distant arcades (hours away) simply because they had better competition. So I guess that's why I can't relate to gamers who are raging about anoptional $8-$20 DLC to unlock new characters/content in a game... something that no one is forcing them to buy. If you like the game, what's the problem with spending a few extra bucks on it and supporting the company that made it? In my book, the DLC is reasonably priced (not to mention color packs & other updates are free). Plus, if you own both the PS3 & Vita versions, all 12 DLC characters are completely free... which isn't a bad deal.

Finally, let's not forget about "time release" characters that both Namco and Capcom previously used in arcade games like Tekken 2, Tekken 3 and MVC2. Manymonths after the original release of those games, additional characters became playable to keep the game fresh and exciting (and it worked). It would appear that Capcom simply wanted players to first enjoy the "vanilla" version of the game and let a little suspense build up... so give'm a break. Besides, what's the fun of havingeverything unlocked at once? Are you really going to master 55 characters at once? No... you're not. Put down the torches, people. There are more important things to worry about in life.

In closing, gamers of this generation are able to sit on their asses at home, play a next-gen fighting game with players all over the world (for free), and some of them have the audacity to sit behind their keyboards and complain about optional DLC that costs them around the same price as lunch? Uhh... to those people, I say go out and buy yourselves a damn Happy Meal, you cheap, cheap ********... (& STFU). Just kidding. But seriously, stop whining. ~TFG Webmaster
This is how everyone will feel about optional, on-disc DLC content, just like SFXT. Just want this here to say "I told you so" as I throw money at Nintendo.
 
Last edited:

God Robert's Cousin

Smash Hero
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
5,300
Location
Dustbowl
NNID
RepaignPalsims
3DS FC
4339-2483-2603
I actually agree that most of the 2nd tier antagonists are static, minus Ghirahim.

I said, "plays a huge role." It still does. I didn't say it was the most important thing. And it does, it leads to popularity and likeness.

"You're not displaying much understanding of how game design works when you think the selection between characters comes down to who was better written than who has better gameplay potential."

Yeah, you keep making up quotes from me. Where did I say this? Quit making **** up. You are wasting my time. That yellow text that you quoted me was that "writing plays a role". You are making up arguments to argue against. Quote me where I said writing is more than gameplay. Not worth talking to you till you actually do, cause you are making up arguments to argue against.
I don't see why you think Ghirahim is an exception then, since, again, his goals and actions remain consistent the entire game. Nothing developing about it.

If you say it isn't the most important thing, then why has your entire basis for Ghirahim been nothing but that very thing? You keep preaching about how he's popular and different from the other villains, yet you still claim you expect me to believe I think you know better?

I shouldn't have to quote you on anything, the fact that you think writing has any role at all is what I'm saying is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if you think it partially or completely believe it plays a role, it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't and I'm waiting for you to legitimately explain how it does if you aren't willing to accept that. Hell, I'm still waiting for you to explain your reasons for Ghirahim's gameplay, since everything you've said thus far has completely revolved around Ghirahim's popularity and nothing to do with what he would actually contribute to Smash Bros. as a character. I'm ready to laugh my ass off if you can't come up with anything beyond "he can summon diamonds and teleport around", considering that speaks only of what Ghirahim can do and not his actual gameplay as a fighting game character.

If it gets you to stop talking about a character you're preaching about being very likely yet have actually said nothing to prove why, maybe I am better off not quoting you about it. I don't make up arguments for the sake of arguing, I merely respond based on what those I'm arguing with have said about their stance of the issue. If you'd like to better clarify yourself, then by all means, please do. I'm only responding based on what you're giving everyone to work with.
 

Gold_Jacobson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
397
I don't see why you think Ghirahim is an exception then, since, again, his goals and actions remain consistent the entire game. Nothing developing about it.
In my opinion, his growing annoyance for Link.


I If you say it isn't the most important thing, then why has your entire basis for Ghirahim been nothing but that very thing? You keep preaching about how he's popular and different from the other villains, yet you still claim you expect me to believe I think you know better?
Because we aren't comparing gameplay movesets of characters! If we were comparing a Zant moveset to a Ghirahim moveset, I would pick whichever brings the better gameplay to Smash. Because gameplay first. But, assuming that they'd both have great gameplay, who should get it or who should Sakurai try to make first? Ghiraham based on the reasons that I am saying!

We aren't comparing characters gameplay! That is why we are talking about their character!

I shouldn't have to quote you on anything, the fact that you think writing has any role at all is what I'm saying is ridiculous.
You kept making up quotes and arguments from me. That I was arguing that gameplay was greater than writing. You weren't debating me. You were debating some obvious argument that I had nothing to do with. You did that twice. So, i was telling you to quote me, because... I didn't say any of the crap you were responding too.

If it gets you to stop talking about a character you're preaching about being very likely yet have actually said nothing to prove why, maybe I am better off not quoting you about it. I don't make up arguments for the sake of arguing, I merely respond based on what those I'm arguing with have said about their stance of the issue. If you'd like to better clarify yourself, then by all means, please do. I'm only responding based on what you're giving everyone to work with.
Yeah, let it go. You aren't even responding to my post. You are responding to what you want to hear.
 
Last edited:

Joe D.

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
673
Location
New York
NNID
NeroSnare
3DS FC
2552-1665-5337
This may seem a bit out of nowhere, but there's one thing that irks me with the Chorus Men.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be fine with their inclusion, but there's something that I see as a problem with their inclusion. When we first got a glimpse of the 3DS's capabilities in terms of characters, we were told that it was difficult to bring in the Ice Climbers in. Now I think the Ice Climbers are a definite inclusion, but if a Duo like that is trouble to put in, then how would a trio be put in? They would either have to spend much more development time, or would just have to scrap the idea and go with a solo version, (Marshall.)

Any thoughts?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I was merely pointing out that Ganon can exist without Ganondorf.
In a game-sense, yeah, and the same applies to Ganondorf being able to exist without Ganon as shown by Wind Waker.

But in a literal sense, no he can't. Ganondorf and Ganon are literally the same individual in different form. And it's been established that the Ganondorf state came first, with the Ganon state being created from the essence of the Triforce of Power.
 

KageJuin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
328
3DS FC
1349-7001-8814
In my opinion, his growing annoyance for Link.




Because we aren't comparing gameplay movesets of characters! If we were comparing a Zant moveset to a Ghirahim moveset, I would pick whichever brings the better gameplay to Smash. Because gameplay first. But, assuming that they'd both have great gameplay, who should get it or who should Sakurai try to make first? Ghiraham based on the reasons that I am saying!

We aren't comparing characters gameplay! That is why we are talking about their character!

You kept making up quotes and arguments from me. That I was arguing that gameplay was greater than writing. You weren't debating me. You were debating some obvious argument that I had nothing to do with. You did that twice. So, i was telling you to quote me, because... I didn't say any of the crap you were responding too.



Yeah, let it go. You aren't even responding to my post. You are responding to what you want to hear.
hey.
stop beating around the bush.
he beat you
if anyone isn't replying to the other it's you.

He proved that no villain besides Ganondorf or Vaati is dynamic. All of them are static. Including Girahim
He proved Vaati is the only second villain of any importance

Girahim, if he gets in, is based on recency. Wasted potential spot, since he won't be back ever again, nor is he that important to Zelda lore. He will represent literally nothing but a single mediocre game in a AAA franchise.

At least Sheik represents Sheikahs as a whole.
 

Burruni

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
9,408
Location
Some Netherworld
This may seem a bit out of nowhere, but there's one thing that irks me with the Chorus Men.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be fine with their inclusion, but there's something that I see as a problem with their inclusion. When we first got a glimpse of the 3DS's capabilities in terms of characters, we were told that it was difficult to bring in the Ice Climbers in. Now I think the Ice Climbers are a definite inclusion, but if a Duo like that is trouble to put in, then how would a trio be put in? They would either have to spend much more development time, or would just have to scrap the idea and go with a solo version, (Marshall.)

Any thoughts?
Most people have ended up in one of three boats when it comes to Chorus Men

1) Haha Gematsu's Dead, No more RH reps. Gimme Ridley/K.Rool/Mewtwo (Despite the sneaky spirit)
2) The two other members will act pikmin-like, small characters with just following AI that will amplify the leader's attacks.
3) Swapped to another RH rep, most often Marshall but there are a few followers for Wrestler, Rhythm Girl, Karate Joe, and even the Monkey and Samurai. I'm more in the Marshall boat myself.
 

NickerBocker

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
1,091
Location
AB, Canada
3DS FC
2492-4251-5054
In a game-sense, yeah, and the same applies to Ganondorf being able to exist without Ganon as shown by Wind Waker.

But in a literal sense, no he can't. Ganondorf and Ganon are literally the same individual in different form. And it's been established that the Ganondorf state came first, with the Ganon state being created from the essence of the Triforce of Power.
Ya exactly. They are one in the same, but can exist without one another. Sorry if that was confusing
 

Gold_Jacobson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
397
hey.
stop beating around the bush.
he beat you
if anyone isn't replying to the other it's you.

He proved that no villain besides Ganondorf or Vaati is dynamic. All of them are static. Including Girahim
He proved Vaati is the only second villain of any importance

Girahim, if he gets in, is based on recency. Wasted potential spot, since he won't be back ever again, nor is he that important to Zelda lore. He will represent literally nothing but a single mediocre game in a AAA franchise.

At least Sheik represents Sheikahs as a whole.
I can't tell if you are joking or not.:joyful:
 

Khoru

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
2,530
This may seem a bit out of nowhere, but there's one thing that irks me with the Chorus Men.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be fine with their inclusion, but there's something that I see as a problem with their inclusion. When we first got a glimpse of the 3DS's capabilities in terms of characters, we were told that it was difficult to bring in the Ice Climbers in. Now I think the Ice Climbers are a definite inclusion, but if a Duo like that is trouble to put in, then how would a trio be put in? They would either have to spend much more development time, or would just have to scrap the idea and go with a solo version, (Marshall.)

Any thoughts?
i think the conclusion a lot of people came to was that they would consist of a single hitbox with the appearance of three entities. they'd follow right behind each other, be fused at the hip, whatever
 

KageJuin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
328
3DS FC
1349-7001-8814
This may seem a bit out of nowhere, but there's one thing that irks me with the Chorus Men.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be fine with their inclusion, but there's something that I see as a problem with their inclusion. When we first got a glimpse of the 3DS's capabilities in terms of characters, we were told that it was difficult to bring in the Ice Climbers in. Now I think the Ice Climbers are a definite inclusion, but if a Duo like that is trouble to put in, then how would a trio be put in? They would either have to spend much more development time, or would just have to scrap the idea and go with a solo version, (Marshall.)

Any thoughts?
I think the models for chorus men would be simple enough to have multiple of in comparison to ice climbers or transformations, which would all have to be loaded and would take more ram.

If these chorus men are simple, and also identical then they would only have to load a single model as opposed to two different ones in the case of Popo and Nana, which would also be complex models with more faces and vertexes than chorus men
 

Joe D.

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
673
Location
New York
NNID
NeroSnare
3DS FC
2552-1665-5337
I think the models for chorus men would be simple enough to have multiple of in comparison to ice climbers or transformations, which would all have to be loaded and would take more ram.

If these chorus men are simple, and also identical then they would only have to load a single model as opposed to two different ones in the case of Popo and Nana, which would also be complex models with more faces and vertexes than chorus men
Hmm it makes sense. I think it would still be difficult to implement simultanious movement among three models and hae them act on that constantly. I think they pulled it off, but it's something I'm curious to see the result of.
 

KageJuin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
328
3DS FC
1349-7001-8814
Hmm it makes sense. I think it would still be difficult to implement simultanious movement among three models and hae them act on that constantly. I think they pulled it off, but it's something I'm curious to see the result of.
The AI part of things is complex but not as taxing as visuals are.
There is a reason that in console wars people look at graphics and the amount of models on screen to discern a winner.
not because it makes a better system, but a more powerfule system can handle taxing jobs better.
a better CPUor GPU can handle more complex models. So high Def.
while more RAM means more of these models can actively do something on the screen at the same time.
 

Joe D.

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
673
Location
New York
NNID
NeroSnare
3DS FC
2552-1665-5337
The AI part of things is complex but not as taxing as visuals are.
There is a reason that in console wars people look at graphics and the amount of models on screen to discern a winner.
not because it makes a better system, but a more powerfule system can handle taxing jobs better.
a better CPUor GPU can handle more complex models. So high Def.
while more RAM means more of these models can actively do something on the screen at the same time.
Glad to hear you explain it. And by the looks of it, the 3DS can handle these visuals based on the intense amount of graphical features we've seen. I could only imagine the difficulty of blending multiple AI and a stage with constant movement :p
 

Doompatron3000

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
218
I think this, gives a good representation of what moves Ghirahim could present


This was the best I could find for Vaati, when he wasn't in his giant, scorpion looking, sometimes, form

 

KageJuin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
328
3DS FC
1349-7001-8814
Did everyone consider this lovely lady to join the game?

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-half-genie-protector-of-scuttle-town-shantae-for-ssb4.328577/

I hope she makes it in!

Glad to hear you explain it. And by the looks of it, the 3DS can handle these visuals based on the intense amount of graphical features we've seen. I could only imagine the difficulty of blending multiple AI and a stage with constant movement :p
The 3DS is very powerful, yet it's held back by the 3D screen.
There are physically two screens so the game's visuals need to be displayed twice.
This effectively halves the processing speed of the system, which is why it slows down in 3D mode while playing a game as simple looking as Fire Emblem Awakening.

The reason they are cut is because playing the game, as frantic as it is, in 3D, would cause problems with having that many complex models on the screen.

If you don't know yet, a lot of effects in Smash are sprites, not 3D models. Same goes for some items in the earlier games.

I expect the same to happen on the 3DS version
 

HylianHeroBigBoss

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
1,679
Location
Zanzibar Land
NNID
HylianHeroSnake
I don't see why you think Ghirahim is an exception then, since, again, his goals and actions remain consistent the entire game. Nothing developing about it.
Well he certainly got humbled something fierce where he was once incredibly confident if that counts for something.

The one shot argument has gone out the window though long ago, and with ghirahim in hyrule warriors which could be an ongoing series hes here to stay. And lets not forget he is the antithesis of the master sword, that in itself is very important, and i wouldnt be surprised if an evil tried to gain that sword once again in the future.
 

SmashChu

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,924
Location
Tampa FL
Yeah everyone expected Chrom and Chrom only. That must be why we never had any Fire Emblem discussions or arguments. :rolleyes:
And here we go. This is a strawman (unless there is a better fallacy that fits it).


The funny thing is no matter what characters the leak might've correctly predicted, whether all or none, you'll still twist it to how you want to see it. I'm not Sakurai, and he's the only one who gets you to change your opinion, often begrudgingly I'd assume. I know better than to start a debate with you Chu.

Plus sensible picks =/= safe picks.
You don't start argument with me because you can't argue. I'm just glad you limited yourself to two quotes this time. You least could have attempted rather than ignore my post.

A leak is all or nothing. To have a leak is to have inside information. If you miss something critical (like a character you said would be in not being in) then you never had inside information. It's one thing for dates to change. It's another for you to have completely wrong information. You're a fool if you still think the leak has credibility. The predictions were safe because EVERYONE talked about it. Saying Shulk was going to happen after everyone else said it based on the evidence presented sound pretty safe to me. Of course, betting on black against black on the 25th time seems safe too.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom