Character Discussion Thread

[SuperBrawler]

Looks like Pac-Man is missing

on purose?

Oops. Your right! Just a second...

EDIT: Done!

 

[Deleted member]

It sounds as though that might be a question akin to the "Ship of Theseus" debate.

Err....what? I don't follow.

Honestly, I would never buy Smash 4 if "Fred" was in it.

I'm the opposite. I'd make damn sure I bought everything for Smash 4 if Fred was in it.

 

[N3ON]

I wouldnt count Vaati out at all. Remember how Chrom was a shoo-in?

People only thought Chrom was a shoo-in because of the leak. Before that they were still divided on FE characters.

And I don't see the connection between one character not being a shoo-in and another totally unrelated one somehow not being counted out. Chrom's omission doesn't suddenly erase all Vaati has against him...

Yes anything could happen... but stuff that is unlikely to happen still ends up not happening more often than it does.

 

[Autumn ♫]

There must be at least like three or four other non-playable Zelda characters more popular than him...

Zelda, Ganondorf, Sheik, and Groose, of course!

How can an Anniversary Edition be considered a new game? That title alone signifies it is a new edition of an existing game released on its anniversary...

I don't know, because it has differences, I guess, and it has it's own official page, which leads me to assume that it's its own game.
Link to site:
http://zelda.com/fourswordsanniversary/

Just because TL is included now doesn't mean Sakurai is just going to return to a possible mentality he had years ago where at that point Vaati hypothetically could've been next in line. That doesn't mean he'd still be next in line. Time moves on and new developments in series occur which necessitates re-evaluating where things stand; and Vaati doesn't stand with the same stature and popularity he had in pre-Brawl. Characters who haven't had recent appearances usually decline in popularity, and new characters by and large push them aside and claim that popularity. Even Sakurai seems to be focusing on the newer, or at least recent aspects of all these series. Do you think Greninja would be included in a future edition of Smash if he wasn't included now? How about Ike being included now if he hadn't been included in Brawl? Or perhaps the closest parallel... do you think Sheik would have been included in Brawl or now if she hadn't been included in Melee? Some characters only have a shot at specific times, and then, until they make an actual re-appearance, they've likely missed their shot. I see no reason to believe Vaati doesn't fall under this umbrella.

Vaati still has a good amount of popularity, for how absent he's been (aside from Anniversary and the E-shop releases, which he's been getting alot of lately)

Greninja: I don't think he'd make it next time if he didn't make it this time, just because of the new generation would be out which would make us need our (probably) 8th generation Pokemon, Meowth would probably get into Smash5 before any other character (besides the obv. 8th gen). I also have no idea how important he would be to Pokemon at that point, would he be another Lucario or just another starter character?

Ike: I wouldn't have any idea. His popularity probably wouldn't be too large because everybody would be expecting Chrom, but it's possible,since he is referenced in Awakening, and is one of the most reoccuring Fire Emblem characters. (Although, I'd would probably prefer Miaciah.

Sheik: I don't even think she would be in Melee if she wasn't part of Zelda's moveset...

 

[NickerBocker]

People only thought Chrom was a shoo-in because of the leak. Before that they were still divided on FE characters.

And I don't see the connection between one character not being a shoo-in and another totally unrelated one somehow not being counted out. Chrom's omission doesn't suddenly erase all Vaati has against him...

Yes anything could happen... but stuff that is unlikely to happen still ends up not happening more often than it does.

Frankly, I considered Chrom very likely before the leak, he was in all my prediction rosters. But I guess it's not really comparable. I was merely pointing out that Vaati shouldn't be disregarded for a one-shot villain.

Yes, Ghirahim is a one-shot villain, just like Zant, which is why I made the comparison.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

People only thought Chrom was a shoo-in because of the leak. Before that they were still divided on FE characters.

And I don't see the connection between one character not being a shoo-in and another totally unrelated one somehow not being counted out. Chrom's omission doesn't suddenly erase all Vaati has against him...

Yes anything could happen... but stuff that is unlikely to happen still ends up not happening more often than it does.

Hey, Dry-Bones Koopa may be in. Remember, Chrom was a shoo in.

 

[Nat Perry]

I knew Chrom wasn't going to get in. I had periods of doubt but I knew they were gonna be smart enough to put someone else in, and that someone else was Robin. And Lucina.

Really, Ghirahim, Impa, or Toon Zelda seem most likely right now. Ghirahim has recency and series prominence on his side, as does Impa, although Impa has appeared in far more Zelda games, obviously. Toon Zelda's kinda likely ish because she was part of the "forbidden 7" planned characters in Brawl.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Frankly, I considered Chrom very likely before the leak, he was in all my prediction rosters. But I guess it's not really comparable. I was merely pointing out that Vaati shouldn't be disregarded for a one-shot villain.

Yes, Ghirahim is a one-shot villain, just like Zant, which is why I made the comparison.

Read my previous post a page or two back. Ghirahim is much more popular than Zant due to actually being given significant more screen time and lines. It doesn't matter they both only hold one game so far. The disparity between the two's existence in those games is 100:1.

 

[KageJuin]

Vaati has more moveset potential than the whole roster combined.

Deal with it.



In all seriousness, we know Vaati is the windmage, is an amazing swordsman, can transform into various other shapes and forms.

If only they give Toon Link an alt where he has the four sword....

 

[Deleted member]

I'm going to laugh so hard if all this arguing over Vaati, Ghirahim, Impa, Toon Zelda, Groose, etc. ends up being all for nothing.
And we end up with this guy instead.

 

[KageJuin]

I'm going to laugh so hard if all this arguing over Vaati, Ghirahim, Impa, Toon Zelda, Groose, etc. ends up being all for nothing.
And we end up with this guy instead.

YES!
PLEASE!!!!!! make this happen Sakurai!

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

People keep comparing Ghirahim to Ex: Zant because of the number of games they are in... The difference?

In skyward sword, the antagonist, Ghirahim actually is developed as a character. He has probably, 100 x the lines that Zant and skull kid have.

Ghirahim's writing is much more in depth than other villains with one appearance. This is also illustrated by the many encounters with him and his many many lines.

And line count matters...because...? No, seriously, this one has me baffled. How on earth does the amount of text Ghirahim has compared to his predecessors have anything to do with his relevance to the series as a whole? The fact of the matter is that he's a cookie-cutter Zelda antagonist with a lot more flair.

Step 1: Throw in new villain (Skull Kid, Veran/Onox, Vaati, Zant, Chancellor Cole, Ghirahim, Yuga).
Step 2: Have them be shown as not the true Big Bad of the story (Majora, Ganon, Ganon again, Ganondorf, Blue Ganon, Akuma Ganon, Ganon yet again).

Zero difference other than that he's a lot more likeable than most of the rest of the cast. So I don't know why you think his narrative in one game makes him a character worth keeping for over the next decade. If he gets multiple appearances like Vaati, then sure, he's worth considering. As he stands however, I see no reason to treat him as anything more than Flavor of the Month until Zelda U is out.

And before you throw the Hyrule Warriors card at me, the game literally pulls everything from all over the Zelda franchise, of course he'd make a minor appearance. We can accredit the Moon, Agitha, and Fi on multiple appearances while we're at it too.

I'm going to laugh so hard if all this arguing over Vaati, Ghirahim, Impa, Toon Zelda, Groose, etc. ends up being all for nothing.
And we end up with this guy instead.

Dude, I would love Ravio. He'd make up for the gap that Toon Link never filled in being someone to actually use other Zelda weapons and items besides swords and bow & arrows. That and the guy is just great in general.

Wouldn't advocate it, but if it happens, I'd definitely be on board.

 

[Gunla]

I'm going to laugh so hard if all this arguing over Vaati, Ghirahim, Impa, Toon Zelda, Groose, etc. ends up being all for nothing.
And we end up with this guy instead.

Spoiler: LBW Spoilers

Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if we got a Ravio styled palette for Toon Link. It does make sense, after all. He'd be a nice clone too.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm going to laugh so hard if all this arguing over Vaati, Ghirahim, Impa, Toon Zelda, Groose, etc. ends up being all for nothing.
And we end up with this guy instead.

You say it as if it's a bad thing.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

I'm going to laugh so hard if all this arguing over Vaati, Ghirahim, Impa, Toon Zelda, Groose, etc. ends up being all for nothing.
And we end up with this guy instead.

I think he's an awesome compromise.

 

[shrooby]

I'm going to laugh so hard if all this arguing over Vaati, Ghirahim, Impa, Toon Zelda, Groose, etc. ends up being all for nothing.
And we end up with this guy instead.

He would be a Link clone.

 

[N3ON]

Zelda, Ganondorf, Sheik, and Groose, of course!

I mean non-playable in Smash. I'd guess Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Midna, and Tetra are all more popular than he is, and probably Tingle too in Japan.

I don't know, because it has differences, I guess, and it has it's own official page, which leads me to assume that it's its own game.
Link to site:
http://zelda.com/fourswordsanniversary/

That's probably because Nintendo wanted to advertise the promotion and they didn't have a site for the original version...

Vaati still has a good amount of popularity, for how absent he's been (aside from Anniversary and the E-shop releases, which he's been getting alot of lately)

For someone who has been absent a while yeah he has a decent amount, but not really that much as far as making a difference towards inclusion goes. Several other Zelda characters have more...

Greninja: I don't think he'd make it next time if he didn't make it this time, just because of the new generation would be out which would make us need our (probably) 8th generation Pokemon, Meowth would probably get into Smash5 before any other character (besides the obv. 8th gen). I also have no idea how important he would be to Pokemon at that point, would he be another Lucario or just another starter character?

Ike: I wouldn't have any idea. His popularity probably wouldn't be too large because everybody would be expecting Chrom, but it's possible,since he is referenced in Awakening, and is one of the most reoccuring Fire Emblem characters. (Although, I'd would probably prefer Miaciah.

Sheik: I don't even think she would be in Melee if she wasn't part of Zelda's moveset...

Well tbh they were rhetorical questions because it's highly unlikely they'd be included in Smash if they didn't get in when they did. Like Vaati they all had a timeframe when their inclusion was most plausible, the difference being they did secure an inclusion while Vaati, like the majority of time-sensitive potential inclusions, was passed over. Not to say he'll never have another chance again, but I can't see it happening unless he starts making more appearances, his competition just has a fair bit more in their favour...

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'm going to laugh so hard if all this arguing over Vaati, Ghirahim, Impa, Toon Zelda, Groose, etc. ends up being all for nothing.
And we end up with this guy instead.

I wouldn't mind Yuga, myself. At least we'd get Pig Ganon in some capacity.

Or Hilda! She's the best Zelda antagonist yet, even better than Ghirahim! And she'd be better than Toon Zelda!

Spoiler

Also plz no to another Link clone.

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair, Ravio doesn't have a sword.

 

[Scamper52596]

And line count matters...because...? No, seriously, this one has me baffled. How on earth does the amount of text Ghirahim has compared to his predecessors have anything to do with his relevance to the series as a whole? The fact of the matter is that he's a cookie-cutter Zelda antagonist with a lot more flair.

Step 1: Throw in new villain (Skull Kid, Veran/Onox, Vaati, Zant, Chancellor Cole, Ghirahim, Yuga).
Step 2: Have them be shown as not the true Big Bad of the story (Majora, Ganon, Ganon again, Ganondorf, Blue Ganon, Akuma Ganon, Ganon yet again).

Zero difference other than that he's a lot more likeable than most of the rest of the cast. So I don't know why you think his narrative in one game makes him a character worth keeping for over the next decade. If he gets multiple appearances like Vaati, then sure, he's worth considering. As he stands however, I see no reason to treat him as anything more as Flavor of the Month until Zelda U is out.

And before you throw the Hyrule Warriors card at me, the game literally pulls everything from all over the Zelda franchise, of course he'd make a minor appearance. We can accredit the Moon, Agitha, and Fi on multiple appearances while we're at it too.

Dude, I would love Ravio. He'd make up for the gap that Toon Link never filled in being someone to actually use other Zelda weapons and items besides swords and bow & arrows. That and the guy is just great in general.

Wouldn't advocate it, but if it happens, I'd definitely be on board.

I couldn't agree more. While Sakurai might pick a popular character to become playable in Smash, he also looks for characters that can represent their franchise as a whole, or at least a majority of it. Ghirahim can only represent one game in a franchise with over a dozen.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Great job, Golden, you just jokingly made a fanbase. Now I want Ravio in Smash.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

To be fair, Ravio doesn't have a sword.

Someone make a moveset based on that bird.

It'll be some sort of long-range weapon/item holder, like a more durable Pikmin!

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

And line count matters...because...? No, seriously, this one has me baffled. How on earth does the amount of text Ghirahim has compared to his predecessors have anything to do with his relevance to the series as a whole? The fact of the matter is that he's a cookie-cutter Zelda antagonist with a lot more flair.

Step 1: Throw in new villain (Skull Kid, Veran/Onox, Vaati, Zant, Chancellor Cole, Ghirahim, Yuga).
Step 2: Have them be shown as not the true Big Bad of the story (Majora, Ganon, Ganon again, Ganondorf, Blue Ganon, Akuma Ganon, Ganon yet again).

Zero difference other than that he's a lot more likeable than most of the rest of the cast. So I don't know why you think his narrative in one game makes him a character worth keeping for over the next decade. If he gets multiple appearances like Vaati, then sure, he's worth considering. As he stands however, I see no reason to treat him as anything more as Flavor of the Month until Zelda U is out.

And before you throw the Hyrule Warriors card at me, the game literally pulls everything from all over the Zelda franchise, of course he'd make a minor appearance. We can accredit the Moon, Agitha, and Fi on multiple appearances while we're at it too.

You are baffled that the more developed character (through text, dialogue, and action) seperates him from a character that has minor dialogue and action?

"Zero difference other than that he's a lot more likeable than most of the rest of the cast. "

That's the point. He is much more likeable. He is a wholly developed character. Much more than Zant, and the others were. Sakurai is more likely to add a more likeable and popular character than one that did not stick with us as well.

You think Chancellor Cole has the same chance as Ghirahim? No, of course you don't. That'd be stupid. Because Character Writing plays a huge role in what characters the fan base demand. Ghirahim has that. That's why he is has a bigger shot in this game compared to Zant with Brawl.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Jeeze, remind me never to upset Mega Man fans. Glad I didn't stick around for that impending argument.
Or the other giant argument that ensued.

Zelda? All I want is a new Ganondorf. Though...

Time to bring back this fellow.

He could function as a semi-transformation character, only changing for individual specials using the three transformation masks.
He could even use the Fierce Deity or Giant Mask as a final smash to rampage across the stage with.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Jeeze, remind me never to upset Mega Man fans. Glad I didn't stick around for that impending argument.
Or the other giant argument that ensued.

Zelda? All I want is a new Ganondorf. Though...

Time to bring back this fellow.

He could function as a semi-transformation character, only changing for individual specials using the three transformation masks.
He could even use the Fierce Deity or Giant Mask as a final smash to rampage across the stage with.

I'd say Happy Mask Salesman has a better chance than Ghirahim on the basis that he's appeared in more games than Shiek.

 

[NickerBocker]

Read my previous post a page or two back. Ghirahim is much more popular than Zant due to actually being given significant more screen time and lines. It doesn't matter they both only hold one game so far. The disparity between the two's existence in those games is 100:1.

And Ghirahim's game was one of the worst selling Zelda titles and one of the lowest rated ones. So ya, he did get more screen time, but that means little, especially because the game was (critically) lousy. Ganondorf had very little screen time in OoT, and he is undeniably the most important villain in the series. Hell, any Zelda villain gets less screen time and lines than Ghirahim has had in a single game.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

And Ghirahim's game was one of the worst selling Zelda titles and one of the lowest rated ones. So ya, he did get more screen time, but that means little, especially because the game was (critically) lousy. Ganondorf had very little screen time in OoT, and he is undeniably the most important villain in the series. Hell, any Zelda villain gets less screen time and lines than Ghirahim has had in a single game.

Less is more. Just look at Majora.

We know nothing about the creepy mask or why it wants to destroy everything, but despite being a oneshot, Majora is one of the more iconic Zelda villains.

Or Zant! He's first presented as this cool, masterful evil overlord, and then he's revealed to be more cuckoo for cocoa puffs than Ghirahim!

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say Happy Mask Salesman has a better chance than Ghirahim on the basis that he's appeared in more games than Shiek.

And he has a Mario mask!! Happy Mask Salesman confirmed!

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

And Ghirahim's game was one of the worst selling Zelda titles and one of the lowest rated ones. So ya, he did get more screen time, but that means little, especially because the game was (critically) lousy. Ganondorf had very little screen time in OoT, and he is undeniably the most important villain in the series. Hell, any Zelda villain gets less screen time and lines than Ghirahim has had in a single game.

So... you say that it sold lousy. As if that matters? You know Skyward Sword already has many elements in Smash 4...?

Why are turning the debate into if Ganondorf is the main villian? No one would argue against that! We are talking about a Six rep for the zelda series. The 2nd antagonist is a great theme for that spot.

No one is arguing about Ganodorf, you are fighting imaginary people on that one.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

You are baffled that the more developed character (through text, dialogue, and action) seperates him from a character that has minor dialogue and action?

"Zero difference other than that he's a lot more likeable than most of the rest of the cast. "

That's the point. He is much more likeable. He is a wholly developed character. Much more than Zant, and the others were. Sakurai is more likely to add a more likeable and popular character than one that did not stick with us as well.

You think Chancellor Cole has the same chance as Ghirahim? No, of course you don't. That'd be stupid. Because Character Writing plays a huge role in what characters the fan base demand. Ghirahim has that. That's why he is has a bigger shot in this game compared to Zant with Brawl.

What development? They're all static characters. You see them or hear of them every now and then in the story and hear their exposition of how they want to do something bad like kill everyone (Skull Kid), rule over the land (Zant), or free his master so that he can help rule over the land (Ghirahim). They don't go through character development. We don't get any more indepth with Ghirahim's origin than we do either of the other two. More developed character shouldn't be confused with character with more screentime.

As for him being "likeable", I'm not going to generalize, but I'm much more willing to bet that Ghirahim's popularity comes a good part from how he's much more memetic than past Zelda villains. He's a masochist, flamboyant, witty stalker of Link and Zelda with a tendency to whip out his extremely long tongue. Combine the fact that he's the most recent antagonist we've had from a major console Zelda game, and no **** he's going be brought up in conversations more than the likes of Zant.

You really don't know how game design works, do you? I take it you missed the big popularity versus gameplay argument from earlier, too. A character can have fantastic, terrible, or even no dialogue whatsoever, but that has no effect on their worth in being a playable character. What matters is their gameplay potential, followed by how well it'd fit them, and then followed by their standing with other characters similar to them. Sakurai has meanwhile not stated even once in his interviews of character selection that he chooses them based on their dialogue in a video game. Not once. You show me a single time he does, I'll join your cause for Ghirahim. I'm not a fan of you taking the narrative of a character and shoving it where it doesn't belong.

 

[Cobalsh]

Great job, Golden, you just jokingly made a fanbase. Now I want Ravio in Smash.

I supported Ravio before it was cool.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

What development? They're all static characters. You see them or hear of them every now and then in the story and hear their exposition of how they want to do something bad like kill everyone (Skull Kid), rule over the land (Zant), or free his master so that he can help rule over the land (Ghirahim). They don't go through character development. We don't get any more indepth with Ghirahim's origin than we do either of the other two. More developed character shouldn't be confused with character with more screentime.

As for him being "likeable", I'm not going to generalize, but I'm much more willing to bet that Ghirahim's popularity comes a good part from how he's much more memetic than past Zelda villains. He's a masochist, flamboyant, witty stalker of Link and Zelda with a tendency to whip out his extremely long tongue. Combine the fact that he's the most recent antagonist we've had from a major console Zelda game, and no **** he's going be brought up in conversations more than the likes of Zant.

You really don't know how game design works, do you? I take it you missed the big popularity versus gameplay argument from earlier, too. A character can have fantastic, terrible, or even no dialogue whatsoever, but that has no effect on their worth in being a playable character. What matters is their gameplay potential, followed by how well it'd fit them, and then followed by their standing with other characters similar to them. Sakurai has meanwhile not stated even once in his interviews of character selection that he chooses them based on their dialogue in a video game. Not once. You show me a single time he does, I'll join your cause for Ghirahim. I'm not a fan of you taking the narrative of a character and shoving it where it doesn't belong.

I honestly believe that you have not played each of these Zelda games. You claiming that they are all static characters, and all...

Where do you get the idea that I said popularity > gameplay? QUOTE ME!

You can't cause I never said that. Nor do I believe that. Of course gameplay comes first.

I'm arguing that the six zelda rep is likely going to an antagonist. Of the possible antagonists, Ghirahim wins that spot due to my previous reasons of popularity, depth of character, and yes, gameplay potentional.

Why would I show you a quote from sakurai about line dialogue if I never said that that is what he looks for...?

 

[EmceeEspio]

So... you say that it sold lousy. As if that matters? You know Skyward Sword already has many elements in Smash 4...?

Why are turning the debate into if Ganondorf is the main villian? No one would argue against that! We are talking about a Six rep for the zelda series. The 2nd antagonist is a great theme for that spot.

No one is arguing about Ganodorf, you are fighting imaginary people on that one.

The "second antagonist" of the Zelda series is Vaati.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Why aren't Ness, Falco, and Wario back yet? The wait for them is killing me!

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Eh, my personal opinion on the whole Ghirahim thing:

It's not gonna happen. Why? Well, because Skyloft is a lousy home stage for Ghirahim. Unless Smash Bros gets another Skyward Sword stage for Ghirahim, which is unlikely.

Skyloft is associated more with Link and Zelda than the Demon Lord, for starters. And the Spirit Train is more associated with Toon Link. Even the oneshot, Sheik, gets an Ocarina of Time stage to call home. (And also gets Ganondorf a home stage, being a Gerudo)

We have one more stage yet to be revealed for Zelda. And since Toon is already represented...

Vaati fans, I love ya, but Spirit Tracks isn't exactly related to Four Swords.

It's either going to be a returned Bridge of Eldin, or a stage based on the Hero fallen timeline. I'd wager it's either Impa, maybe, or a reworked Ganondorf.

 

[SmashChu]

People only thought Chrom was a shoo-in because of the leak. Before that they were still divided on FE characters.

And I don't see the connection between one character not being a shoo-in and another totally unrelated one somehow not being counted out. Chrom's omission doesn't suddenly erase all Vaati has against him...

Yes anything could happen... but stuff that is unlikely to happen still ends up not happening more often than it does.

Uhhh, people thought Chrom was getting in regardless of the leak. It was a common topic of discussion. Heck, that's why Sal put Chrom on his roster. Sal was good about picking safe choices.

 

[NickerBocker]

So... you say that it sold lousy. As if that matters? You know Skyward Sword already has many elements in Smash 4...?

Why are turning the debate into if Ganondorf is the main villian? No one would argue against that! We are talking about a Six rep for the zelda series. The 2nd antagonist is a great theme for that spot.

No one is arguing about Ganodorf, you are fighting imaginary people on that one.

Im not fighting anyone. You asserted that having more lines and screentime made you more popular, and therefore, more important (in the context of Smash):

Read my previous post a page or two back. Ghirahim is much more popular than Zant due to actually being given significant more screen time and lines. It doesn't matter they both only hold one game so far. The disparity between the two's existence in those games is 100:1.

I just made the comparison between Ganondorf, his screentime and lines, and his popularity and importance. Im not debating if he is main villain (because he is.) I am merely pointing out that being "in your face" for an entire game doesn't make a character more important. Don't try to discredit my argument in that way.

I know there is already plenty of SS content in Smash, but that doesn't mean vicariously that Ghirahim is going to be in. And yes, sales do matter, like it or not. High sales = high exposure = more people are aware of it = more popularity. More exposure is always a good thing. Of course, a character like Vaati isn't exactly above Ghirahim in terms of public awareness.

How do you think series become "big?"

Sales.

 

[N3ON]

Uhhh, people thought Chrom was getting in regardless of the leak. It was a common topic of discussion. Heck, that's why Sal put Chrom on his roster.

You sir are opening a can of worms with that kinda talk.

And not everyone thought Chrom was getting in prior to the leak, things were fairly divided between him, Robin, Lucina, and Roy at least, even if all those camps weren't of the same size. Sure some people thought he was getting in regardless, but prior to the leak it certainly wasn't everyone.

Sal was good about picking safe choices.

Uh huh...

 

[TumblrFamous]

Eh, my personal opinion on the whole Ghirahim thing:

It's not gonna happen. Why? Well, because Skyloft is a lousy home stage for Ghirahim. Unless Smash Bros gets another Skyward Sword stage for Ghirahim, which is unlikely.

Skyloft is associated more with Link and Zelda than the Demon Lord, for starters. And the Spirit Train is more associated with Toon Link. Even the oneshot, Sheik, gets an Ocarina of Time stage to call home. (And also gets Ganondorf a home stage, being a Gerudo)

We have one more stage yet to be revealed for Zelda. And since Toon is already represented...

Vaati fans, I love ya, but Spirit Tracks isn't exactly related to Four Swords.

It's either going to be a returned Bridge of Eldin, or a stage based on the Hero fallen timeline. I'd wager it's either Impa, maybe, or a reworked Ganondorf.

Your basing a character's likelihood on stages?

Okay.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Im not fighting anyone. You asserted that having more lines and screentime made you more popular, and therefore, more important (in the context of Smash):



I just made the comparison between Ganondorf, his screentime and lines, and his popularity and importance. Im not debating if he is main villain (because he is.) I am merely pointing out that being "in your face" for an entire game doesn't make a character more important. Don't try to discredit my argument in that way.

I know there is already plenty of SS content in Smash, but that doesn't mean vicariously that Ghirahim is going to be in. And yes, sales do matter, like it or not. High sales = high exposure = more people are aware of it = more popularity. More exposure is always a good thing. Of course, a character like Vaati isn't exactly above Ghirahim in terms of public awareness.

How do you think series become "big?"

Sales.

Ganondorf and Ghirahaim aren't in the same category. I am not arguing that Ghirahaim is taking Ganondorf's place in smash or in Zelda. Quit making up arguments that I never made.

Sticking with 2nd tier Antagonists, Screentime and dialogue makes a difference for all of the antagonists in that tier. Zant, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Vaatti, etc. That is who is being compared. Not the highest tier and iconic villain.
If you are going to argue that, argue within the tier. For 2nd level Zelda Antagonists.

Sales matter? I agree to some level. Not as much as you do though...

But...

And Ghirahim's game sold much more than Vaatti's.
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda