Character Discussion Thread

[Sausage Zeldas]

Ah yes, almost forgot

Spoiler

...Sure.
Nah, you ninja'd me on that one.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah yes, almost forgot

Spoiler

But Randy doesn't have wings.

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

But Randy doesn't have wings.

Sure he does; he just keeps them invisible.

 

[Rockaphin]

I honestly thought Villager was a safe character. Even though Sakurai said it would be out of his nature, I figured he'd contradict himself in this installment and I was right. A lack of an Animal Crossing character by this time would be absurd in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

I saw changing his mind on Villager as a possibility, but not an inevitability.
But regardless, Villager being a "safe bet" is only true in hindsight.

 

[Oz37]

Is it just me or have things been getting progressively more rabid in this thread since the Fire Emblem reveal? Even some of the mods are showing some interesting *cough*biased*cough* colors. Pardon me while I dust off the soapbox again, but there is far too much "certainty" going on over who can/can't and will/won't EVAR be in the game. Are any of us the developers of the game? No? Then we effectively know nothing. Sure, we can make educated guesses on what may happen, but that means nothing in the end.

We should all know by now that Sakurai defies expectations. Don't fall into the trap of "this will happen because it happened with x character" or "that won't happen because popularity/recentness/individuality is important to Sakurai." I've always figured discussion here would be about a character's potential and merits, as well as just general discussion about said characters in and out of the SSB setting. However, it often just turns into tennis-match arguments citing "proofs" for why a character will or won't be on the roster.

Sidenote: Kudos to the posters who try to just discuss character choices instead of running around telling others why their favorite characters are crappy choices that Sakurai spits upon.

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

Is it just me or have things been getting progressively more rabid in this thread since the Fire Emblem reveal? Even some of the mods are showing some interesting *cough*biased*cough* colors. Pardon me while I dust off the soapbox again, but there is far too much "certainty" going on over who can/can't and will/won't EVAR be in the game. Are any of us the developers of the game? No? Then we effectively know nothing. Sure, we can make educated guesses on what may happen, but that means nothing in the end.

We should all know by now that Sakurai defies expectations. Don't fall into the trap of "this will happen because it happened with x character" or "that won't happen because popularity/recentness/individuality is important to Sakurai." I've always figured discussion here would be about a character's potential and merits, as well as just general discussion about said characters in and out of the SSB setting. However, it often just turns into tennis-match arguments citing "proofs" for why a character will or won't be on the roster.

Sidenote: Kudos to the posters who try to just discuss character choices instead of running around telling others why their favorite characters are crappy choices that Sakurai spits upon.

There's another way to discuss characters?

 

[TumblrFamous]

I hold very strong to the opinions I have, but I am certainly open to others' opinions and other possibilities. I think being adamant and strongly holding beliefs is a good thing, but people need to be open to possibilities.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Eh, on the bright side, we aren't just limiting ourselves to three more slots like some pessimists.

And though I know that "slot stealing" is BS, I still feel that franchise representation is going to be one, two newcomers max, so I get kinda defensive when other people favor certain characters from a franchise over mine.

 

[epicgordan]

Okay, let me make this abundantly clear regarding the Zelda newcomer. If one takes into account that in Smash 4:

1. Fi's trophy and the trophy quiz
2. The overabundance of Skyward Sword references

Then it is pretty much a near-certainty that, if we are getting a newcomer from the Zelda franchise, it would be someone from that game. Who are the major players from Skyward Sword that could still be playable? Impa, Ghirahim, Demise, and Groose. Demise is obviously a Ganondorf alt, and Groose, while not impossible per se, probably wouldn't make it in anyways. Impa could also be a Sheik alt, but I do recall Impa having some distinct differences that could be transferred over to make her her own character. Even though Ghirahim isn't exactly tied into Skyloft, Ganondorf wasn't tied to Bridge of Eldin either, but was instead given Final Destination as his main stage in Brawl. Couldn't something similar happen should Ghirahim get in over Impa?

This is why Ghirahim pretty much has the best shot at getting in as a newcomer in Super Smash Brothers 4. Impa could pull the upset, but that's the only other scenario that I find realistic when it comes to Zelda newcomers. That is why I am pretty much sticking to my guns and saying that Ghirahim is the most likely Zelda newcomer we are going to get. Could I be wrong? Certainly! But the hints and teases--heck, the evidence--call if what you will--points towards a Skyward Sword newcomer, and Ghirahim makes the most sense if one takes into account alternate costumes.

I have additional evidence to back up my seven other newcomers, but to reiterate, I'll just name them off: 8-Bit Mario, King K. Rool, Chorus Kids (or a Rhythm Heaven rep in general), Ridley, Dark Pit, Mewtwo, and Shulk.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Okay, let me make this abundantly clear regarding the Zelda newcomer. If one takes into account that in Smash 4:

1. Fi's trophy and the trophy quiz
2. The overabundance of Skyward Sword references

Then it is pretty much a near-certainty that, if we are getting a newcomer from the Zelda franchise, it would be someone from that game. Who are the major players from Skyward Sword that could still be playable? Impa, Ghirahim, Demise, and Groose. Demise is obviously a Ganondorf alt, and Groose, while not impossible per se, probably wouldn't make it in anyways. Impa could also be a Sheik alt, but I do recall Impa having some distinct differences that could be transferred over to make her her own character. Even though Ghirahim isn't exactly tied into Skyloft, Ganondorf wasn't tied to Bridge of Eldin either, but was instead given Final Destination as his main stage in Brawl. Couldn't something similar happen should Ghirahim get in over Impa?

This is why Ghirahim pretty much has the best shot at getting in as a newcomer in Super Smash Brothers 4. Impa could pull the upset, but that's the only other scenario that I find realistic when it comes to Zelda newcomers. That is why I am pretty much sticking to my guns and saying that Ghirahim is the most likely Zelda newcomer we are going to get. Could I be wrong? Certainly! But the hints and teases--heck, the evidence--call if what you will--points towards a Skyward Sword newcomer, and Ghirahim makes the most sense if one takes into account alternate costumes.

I have additional evidence to back up my seven other newcomers, but to reiterate, I'll just name them off: 8-Bit Mario, King K. Rool, Chorus Kids (or a Rhythm Heaven rep in general), Ridley, Dark Pit, Mewtwo, and Shulk.

Mewtwo wouldn't be a newcomer if he returns, sonny boy.

 

[epicgordan]

Mewtwo wouldn't be a newcomer if he returns, sonny boy.

You get the idea, however, since Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl. As far as veterans from Brawl go, Snake, Ivyaur, and Squirtle are all guaranteed cuts, while Lucas is a maybe. The rest? Coming back.

 

[~Krystal~]

Not to sound biased, but I wouldn't put money on Snake being a guaranteed cut. Squirtle and Ivy perhaps, but I've been misled by Sakurai and Kojima once before.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

You get the idea, however, since Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl. As far as veterans from Brawl go, Snake, Ivyaur, and Squirtle are all guaranteed cuts, while Lucas is a maybe. The rest? Coming back.

Yes, I do get the idea, but you can miss a game and still be a veteran, it just has yet to happen.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm still not sold on the trophy quiz theory.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Not to sound biased, but I wouldn't put money on Snake being a guaranteed cut. Squirtle and Ivy perhaps, but I've been misled by Sakurai and Kojima once before.

I used to think Snake would be cut...
Then Rayman happened.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Not to sound biased, but I wouldn't put money on Snake being a guaranteed cut. Squirtle and Ivy perhaps, but I've been misled by Sakurai and Kojima once before.

That's not biased at all. You're being rational.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Is it just me or have things been getting progressively more rabid in this thread since the Fire Emblem reveal? Even some of the mods are showing some interesting *cough*biased*cough* colors. Pardon me while I dust off the soapbox again, but there is far too much "certainty" going on over who can/can't and will/won't EVAR be in the game. Are any of us the developers of the game? No? Then we effectively know nothing. Sure, we can make educated guesses on what may happen, but that means nothing in the end.

We should all know by now that Sakurai defies expectations. Don't fall into the trap of "this will happen because it happened with x character" or "that won't happen because popularity/recentness/individuality is important to Sakurai." I've always figured discussion here would be about a character's potential and merits, as well as just general discussion about said characters in and out of the SSB setting. However, it often just turns into tennis-match arguments citing "proofs" for why a character will or won't be on the roster.

Sidenote: Kudos to the posters who try to just discuss character choices instead of running around telling others why their favorite characters are crappy choices that Sakurai spits upon.

Literally NOBODY said anybody's character choices sucked. It's the reasoning people use to justify their inclusion that is frustrating, because some of them are just silly.

Also, I'm assuming the "biased colors" are directed at me. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm putting my actual feeling on the matter into my posts. I think people think about the wrong stuff when they speculate sometimes. Just because I'm a mod I can't say that? Screw that. I came here to speculate.

I'm not saying I know what Sakurai thinks, but I can't take arguments seriously when people tell me that Sakurai is going to pick a character depending on how well their game did when so far, newcomer choices directly contradict that.

I'm all for saying, "I like Ghirahim because of these reasons..." and then talking about that. But when you say that means he's in, that's different. Just because people like a character for particular reasons doesn't mean those particular reasons are going to get those characters in.

When I ask people what a character they can contribute, they mostly will tell me what the character can use. "Bandanna Dee can use a spear!" That's not what I'm looking for. That tells me nothing. What would he do to be different? What can he do that makes me want to play as him? That is a legit criteria for Sakurai. He literally looks at that.

There are only a select few characters that I would determine as bad. I never said any particular character is bad. But there are absolutely different things that contribute to character selection, and there are quite a few that don't.

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

I'm still not sold on the trophy quiz theory.

I don't think it's a guarantee, but I do think the quiz was sort of an odd thing to just throw in there.

 

[KageJuin]

Literally NOBODY said anybody character choices sucked. It's the reasoning people use to justify their inclusion that is frustrating, because some of them are just silly.

Also, I'm assuming the "biased colors" are directed at me. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm putting my actual feeling on the matter into my posts. I think people think about the wrong stuff when they speculate sometimes. Just because I'm a mod I can't say that? Screw that. I came here to speculate.

I'm not saying I know what Sakurai thinks, but I can't take arguments seriously when people tell me that Sakurai is going to pick a character depending on how well their game did when so far, newcomer choices directly contradict that.

I'm all for saying, "I like Ghirahim because of these reasons..." and then talking about that. But when you say that means he's in, that's different. Just because people like a character for particular reasons doesn't mean those particular reasons are going to get those characters in.

When I ask people what a character they can contribute, they mostly will tell me what the character can use. "Bandanna Dee can use a spear!" That's not what I'm looking for. That tells me nothing. What would he do to be different? What can he do that makes me want to play as him? That is a legit criteria for Sakurai. He literally looks at that.

There are only a select few characters that I would determine as bad. I never said any particular character is bad. But there are absolutely different things that contribute to character selection, and there are quite a few that don't.

not all newcomer choices. Look at WFT and Miis.

please.

I understand why someone would say you're biased based on this post alone.

Take into consideration all factors before spouting your feelings on here.

 

[NickerBocker]

I'm still not sold on the trophy quiz theory.

That's great because it is just a theory. We all expected an FE newcomer, and Palutena was a pretty safe choice, so at this point I would consider it a coincidence more than fact. Getting a Metroid newcomer and a Zelda Newcomer as well isn't a huge stretch at all. Ridley seems to be the one choice for Metroid, which if he was included as playable wouldn't be unexpected by any means. There are also a ton of Zelda characters to choose from as well, and Zelda is one of Nintendo's biggest series, so again, not a big surprise if one is included.

I don't know if we should call it the "trophy quiz theory" or the "trophy quiz coincidence."

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

not all newcomer choices. Look at WFT and Miis.

please.

I understand why someone would say you're biased based on this post alone.

Take into consideration all factors before spouting your feelings on here.

...what am I saying that is biased? Is it because I have an opinion? Everybody has an opinion. I don't see what i'm "biased" about.

 

[KageJuin]

That's great because it is just a theory. We all expected an FE newcomer, and Palutena was a pretty safe choice, so at this point I would consider it a coincidence more than fact. Getting a Metroid newcomer and a Zelda Newcomer as well isn't a huge stretch at all. Ridley seems to be the one choice for Metroid, which if he was included as playable wouldn't be unexpected by any means. There are also a ton of Zelda characters to choose from as well, and Zelda is one of Nintendo's biggest series, so again, not a big surprise if one is included.

I don't know if we should call it the "trophy quiz theory" or the "trophy quiz coincidence."

I wish we could have the old man from the cave playable.

...what am I saying that is biased? Is it because I have an opinion? Everybody has an opinion. I don't see what i'm "biased" about.

Before WFT or Mii Fighters were announced, nobody viewed these characters as unique.
They got in based on popularity, which comes from recognition, which in turn is directly influenced by how many numbers those games push.

Sakurai made them as unique as he could... and the uniqueness of Miss is debatable.

 

[Weeman]

I'm still not sold on the trophy quiz theory.

Well it's a theory for a reason

 

[NickerBocker]

not all newcomer choices. Look at WFT and Miis.

please.

I understand why someone would say you're biased based on this post alone.

Take into consideration all factors before spouting your feelings on here.

Woah, people are allowed to have opinions, especially when it comes to quality of a character. He is merely trying to separate fact and opinion. He is allowed to like whatever character he likes, even if you dont like them yourself.

If he has an opinion about Sakurais criteria (which we all have) then he has to support it with facts/evidence, which he has done

1000th Post!!! SMASH LORD!!!

 

[Moon Monkey]

If everyone is honest with themselves they would know that we are all bias.

We all have opinions. What DOES matter is how you support and defend your opinions with grounded facts/reason.

If people trash your idea and you can't defend it then you can't call it bias. The person just has failed to support their reasons.

This isn't taking shots at anyone it's just how discussion should go in general

 

[Joe D.]

Well it's a theory for a reason

A GAME THE-

I'll leave now.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I wish we could have the old man from the cave playable.


Before WFT or Mii Fighters were announced, nobody viewed these characters as unique.
They got in based on popularity, which comes from recognition, which in turn is directly influenced by how many numbers those games push.

Sakurai made them as unique as he could... and the uniqueness of Miss is debatable.

See, that's completely debatable.

We're not the ones making the character decisions. Sakurai is the one picking them. How did Wii Fit Trainer get in from popularity if nobody considered her? That doesn't even make any sense.

Sakurai literally introduced her in the Developer Direct at E3 2013 saying nobody requested her, but he thought she was a refreshing choice for the roster. Why was she refreshing? Nobody considered her and she was unique.

Mii's weren't really mean to be the most unique characters ever, so for me it is what it is.

 

[Doompatron3000]

Before WFT or Mii Fighters were announced, nobody viewed these characters as unique.
They got in based on popularity, which comes from recognition, which in turn is directly influenced by how many numbers those games push.

Sakurai made them as unique as he could... and the uniqueness of Miss is debatable.

Oh no not the "Sales=Smash Roster Spot" again!

 

[Con0rrrr]

Sakurai be crazy.

We don't know how this **** works in his head.

THIS MAN IS MESSED UP

None of you people are crazy for liking/disliking a character. You're only wrong if you compare potential reps from a franchise, and hate on another because there's lessens your picks' chances.

 

[Deleted member]

They got in based on popularity, which comes from recognition, which in turn is directly influenced by how many numbers those games push.

I understand why someone would say you're biased based on this post alone.

Take into consideration all factors before spouting your feelings on here.

Practice what you preach.

 

[KageJuin]

Woah, people are allowed to have opinions, especially when it comes to quality of a character. He is merely trying to separate fact and opinion. He is allowed to like whatever character he likes, even if you dont like them yourself.

If he has an opinion about Sakurais criteria (which we all have) then he has to support it with facts/evidence, which he has done

1000th Post!!! SMASH LORD!!!

That is fine and dandy. He hasn't supported his opinion with any facts whatsoever.

He contradicted himself by saying no newcomers were picked based on popularity, which is ofcourse driven by sales.


I think this is a faulty statement. Especially when we take into consideration the creator's own words:
http://smashboards.com/threads/sakurai-sans-character-selection-process.361953/#post-17125299

 

[TumblrFamous]

not all newcomer choices. Look at WFT and Miis.

please.

I understand why someone would say you're biased based on this post alone.

Take into consideration all factors before spouting your feelings on here.

I don't see how Scoliosis was being "biased" here.

As Moon Monkey said, all opinions have bias, we all have biases and strong beliefs to what we want and what we perceive as speculators. And also what Moon said, it's all about how you defend your claims and support them.

You're giving off some very negative connotations. For the welfare of this thread, I strongly suggest we stop flaming and pushing other people's opinions, as it all really is opinion and personal, and not something to be taken so seriously.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

That is fine and dandy. He hasn't supported his opinion with any facts whatsoever.

He contradicted himself by saying no newcomers were picked based on popularity, which is ofcourse driven by sales.


I think this is a faulty statement. Especially when we take into consideration the creator's own words:
http://smashboards.com/threads/sakurai-sans-character-selection-process.361953/#post-17125299

Uh, actually no, I didn't say that. If I did, then that's not what I meant.

Little Mac, Mega Man and Palutena are all characters that have quite the popularity. Greninja (before he was revealed) had little Smash popularity. Rosalina was the dark horse Mario newcomer. Robin wasn't out of this world popular.

Popularity hasn't had a hand in everything thus far. I don't need some article to show that.

 

[Nat Perry]

Everyone's biased to some degree, it's inevitable. People have opinions, and opinions are by nature biased! Why? Because they show preference for one thing over another. You can call anyone biased all you want, you're still biased as well. Can we share our inherently biased opinons on video games in peace?

 

[TumblrFamous]

That is fine and dandy. He hasn't supported his opinion with any facts whatsoever.

He contradicted himself by saying no newcomers were picked based on popularity, which is ofcourse driven by sales.


I think this is a faulty statement. Especially when we take into consideration the creator's own words:
http://smashboards.com/threads/sakurai-sans-character-selection-process.361953/#post-17125299

Where does it say in this article about popularity being the ultimate factor? Other than you jumping to conclusions. I don't see any segue or reference to the popularity of a character. Yes, there are surveys done that he looks at, but you're believing that the popularity is a hands-down final factor, which is fallacious.

I'm sure Sakurai won't add any hated characters (are there any, really?). But the driving force is looking at the selection of chocies he has, and finds the choice that stands out from a point-of-view of "what do they bring to the game?" It was between Robin and Chrom. If it was based on popularity, Chrom would have been in by default, no questions asked. But Sakurai wasn't looking for popularity, he was looking for what a character can bring. Robin could bring something to the table that no other FE rep could, and he got in over Chrom.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Everyone's a little bit ra- err, biased.

So how about Rayman for DLC? No? Happy Mask Salesman?

Anyway, I've done some thinking on a larger roster, looking for some input as per usual. And some help.

First notes right off the bat, as Miis are entirely custom characters, I would suspect that their icon will only appear when that nice big customizations button is on, perhaps they would replace random. Then there's that obvious blank space, that's where I'm looking for help, I'm sure there'll be varying opinions of who should go there. I've also added our beloved pink puff (the eyeball, not the marshmallow) back. One thing I'm rather happy about is that everyone has a nice looking icon for once.

I'm also prepared for the inevitable Snake/Krystal/whatever haters, so say what you will, I really don't care. I'm thinking positive!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Anyway...

Even if the Sal Romano leak were to be fake, I think Shulk and at the very least Marshal are going to be in. What do you guys think?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

All this talk about character bias, I may as well come back later when things settle down a bit.

EDIT: JamesDNaux, great roster up there, bro!

 

[Deleted member]

Well, regardless of the Gematsu leak being untrustworthy, there is evidence towards a Rhythm Heaven character.
So the blank spot should be a RH character.

andreplacekrystalwithblackshadow