Character Discussion Thread

[KageJuin]

Yeah, and if I was directing the game I wouldn't buy into this sigificance/prominence/popularity/relevace/moveset potential nonsense we all love to debate with. Hell, I'd put in whoever I wanted to and that would be that! Sure, I'd take requests into account, but for the most part I'd just put in whoever I wanted!

you would also lose your job.

there are certain characters that HAVE to get in.
i think most of those are already in, namely, the ones who represent their series.

Whatever comes now is based on sakurai's decisions.
he is amazing designer though, balancing starpower, popularity and uniqueness.
he sets up polls to discern popularity, he then picks unique characters and characters that have a certain caliber to them.
other than that he likes to revive retro games.

it's not easy to guess what character he is going to pick anymore, since most series are fully represented by now. Which leaves room only for retro characters and unique characters, which could be anything from excitebiker to inkling

 

[Kenith]

And Skyward Sword is canonically the first in the series so that helps a crapton.

It does?

I was alluding to the fact that Skyward Sword was the real "Wii generation" Zelda game, which is where most of Smash 4's content is being pulled from, and that Skyward Sword, while one of the lesser selling Zelda games, still was a success and supported the loathed, but regardless innovative motion controls.

 

[Nat Perry]

you would also lose your job.

there are certain characters that HAVE to get in.
i think most of those are already in, namely, the ones who represent their series.

Whatever comes now is based on sakurai's decisions.
he is amazing designer though, balancing starpower, popularity and uniqueness.
he sets up polls to discern popularity, he then picks unique characters and characters that have a certain caliber to them.
other than that he likes to revive retro games.

it's not easy to guess what character he is going to pick anymore, since most series are fully represented by now. Which leaves room only for retro characters and unique characters, which could be anything from excitebiker to inkling

It's not like I would choose them foolishly, I'd put whoever I want in as long as it works intuitively, as well as ones I know "have to get in." Like I wouldn't throw in Nabbit or Rolf or Klefki, haha. I WOULD throw in characters like Bowser Jr., Ghirahim, Anna, Krystal, etc. that at least make sense to be included.

It does?

I was alluding to the fact that Skyward Sword was the real "Wii" Zelda game, which is where most of Smash 4's content is being pulled from, and that Skyward Sword, while one of the lesser selling Zelda games, still was a success and supported the loathed, but regardless innovative motion controls.

Hmmm ok. At least I think it helps. You have presented better points then I have.

 

[KageJuin]

It does?

I was alluding to the fact that Skyward Sword was the real "Wii" Zelda game, which is where most of Smash 4's content is being pulled from, and that Skyward Sword, while one of the lesser selling Zelda games, still was a success and supported the loathed, but regardless innovative motion controls.

These are good arguments.

Without this logical statement, Girahim wouldn't make as much chance as Vaati, the main villain besides Ganondorf.
the only other recurring villain who can only be defeated by his own legendary sword: the four sword.

he may not be as recent, but he was more prominent before the DS games. this is where we went back to the 'villain of the week' approach of useless cannonfodder for link's superior godsent powers.


I think, personally, girahim may be as lucky as Sheik and get in for being there at the right time.
Even if i disagree with him personally.

What happens is up to sakurai, though. He skipped on Chrom for Robin. I disagreed on Chrom as much as I disagree on Girahim.

I hope Sakurai doesn't add Girahim for being the latest random enemy and rather picks someone greater, more interesting.

 

[Niala]

Read the manga. It is cannon, and it shows that Ridley is not only sentient, but is capable of speech.

TIL Metroid is a manga.

That's because Smash Bros. is a party game!


No. What really gets characters into Smash Bros. is completely indiscernible to us. It can be anything: Popularity, uniqueness potential, marketing, ease of design, padding the roster, iconicness, a mixture of all or none at all. And even if these "criteria" have appealed to certain characters, they won't apply to all of them.

Sakurai and his team will put in whomever he wants to put in. Sometimes, we can discern why he put in a certain character (he made it clear why he put in Lucina and Robin), but other times we can't.

"But Sakurai has said that uniqueness and what they bring to the table will get them into Smash!!!" Fair enough, but what is considered "unique" is completely subjective. For example, half of the characters that have been added to this roster so far I don't find "unique". But yes, uniqueness can be a factor for some characters, but it isn't the defining or only factor that will get characters into this game. Hell, it may not be a factor at all. Look at Lucina.

Holy so much this. Weeeellll... except the uniqueness part-- I personally like what we've seen of all the new characters save Lucina. Even the ones I don't think I'll enjoy I would perceive as unique. But that just goes to prove your point about subjectivity, I suppose.

I think, personally, girahim may be as lucky as Sheik and get in for being there at the right time.

I really do think people overlook this quite a bit. Sheik was indeed lucky to have been included in the first place. It's not impossible for the same to happen to Ghirahim.

 

[Nat Perry]

And Ghirahim is the latest AND earliest Zelda villain. How 'bout dat? I mean if we're not talking about ALBW then he is the latest.

Muhahahahaha.

But really, I don't see much of a chance for Vaati given that we haven't seen him in years. He came and went like Dark Samus. Or Fawful.

 

[Kenith]

These are good arguments.
Without this logical statement, Girahim wouldn't make as much chance as Vaati, the main villain besides Ganondorf.
the only other recurring villain who can only be defeated by his own legendary sword: the four sword.
he may not be as recent, but he was more prominent before the DS games. this is where we went back to the 'villain of the week' approach of useless cannonfodder for link's superior godsent powers.

I like Vaati, but I think you are overselling his prominence. As many have noted, yes, he has been in three games, but he was one of many antagonists in two of those, and, in the case of Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures, while canon, are both multiplayer stage-based games, effectively making them spin-offs. And Minish Cap, where he is really expanded upon as a character, isn't really that integral to the Zelda series overall. It was a small Gameboy Advance title in a series of AAA console games. The game itself has been mostly forgotten by Nintendo besides, sadly. There has been no mention of Minish Cap after it's release.

I think, personally, girahim may be as lucky as Sheik and get in for being there at the right time.
Even if i disagree with him personally.
What happens is up to sakurai, though. He skipped on Chrom for Robin. I disagreed on Chrom as much as I disagree on Girahim.
I hope Sakurai doesn't add Girahim for being the latest random enemy and rather picks someone greater, more interesting.

I think he's plenty interesting, but these are opinions, and opinions are irrelevant here.

However, I will add that Ghirahim has quite a few unique abilities that could be effectively translated to Smash, including the ability to summon all sorts of monsters to fight for him, create and manipulate diamond-shaped knives that fly in different formations, create magic barriers, create swords out of thin air, teleport swiftly, and, for Final Smash options, turn into a sword, or transform into his souped up Spirit Form.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I like Vaati, but I think you are overselling his prominence. As many have noted, yes, he has been in three games, but he was one of many antagonists in two of those, and, in the case of Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures, while canon, are both multiplayer stage-based games, effectively making them spin-offs. And Minish Cap, where he is really expanded upon as a character, isn't really that integral to the Zelda series overall. It was a small Gameboy Advance title in a series of AAA console games. The game itself has been mostly forgotten by Nintendo besides, sadly. There has been no mention of Minish Cap after it's release.

Is it okay if I counter argument this in the morning? I'm about to pass out right now from staying up too late...

 

[Kenith]

Is it okay if I counter argument this in the morning? I'm about to pass out right now from staying up too late...

I know good and well how you feel about Vaati, sir.

 

[KageJuin]

As for interesting?

Girahim wants to revive Demise/Ganondorf like many before him.
Vaati wants it all to himself. he's nuts.
A nice contrast to Ganondorf's serious style.
He could represent the Toon side.

those are my thoughts on the matter. He isn't amazingly important, but if we had to just compare the characters based on importance to the series?...


I already said Gir will probably be in. so.... it happens.

new pic of the day.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

With all this talk about Ridley and a new Zelda character, I'm just sitting waiting for Isaac. Its now or never...

 

[Kenith]

With all this talk about Ridley and a new Zelda character, I'm just sitting waiting for Isaac. Its now or never...

I wish I could say Isaac was going to happen, but every time I have that thought, about a character who uses magic and sorcery, and I turn my head and see Robin.
No, not Isaac's Japanese name. The one from Fire Emblem.

 

[KageJuin]

Ridley is all but confirmed... unless Adam or Anthony Higgins makes it in... lolwut?

What if they added SS Zelda instead of anything we were trying to guess?

I am thinking Demise may be the newcomer, who will receive a ganondorf costume.
Black Shadow appears and gets ganondorf's old moveset.

bam.

Ganondorf with sword.



that would make more sense with the whole starpower and importance thing.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

As for interesting?

Girahim wants to revive Demise/Ganondorf like many before him.
Vaati wants it all to himself. he's nuts.
A nice contrast to Ganondorf's serious style.

Ghirahim succeeds at his goal in every way where many tend to fail, and he even continues to laugh all the way through even at his own expense once demise takes control, its what he wanted from the start. Vaati is no different then ganondorf, and power is really what both wanted, vaati just became evil with the power of an item.

I still think ghirahim as far as any zelda character goes is up there with midna as one of the most fleshed out characters personality wise in any zelda game. The one shot argument never held any water, and it still doesnt, but either way we know sakurai is looking towards new faces for his newcomers. Relevance wont keep an old character out, but its very easy to see where his attention has been when looking for new blood.

 

[KageJuin]

Ghirahim succeeds at his goal in every way where many tend to fail, and he even continues to laugh all the way through even at his own expense once demise takes control, its what he wanted from the start. Vaati is no different then ganondorf, and power is really what both wanted, vaati just became evil with the power of an item.

I still think ghirahim as far as any zelda character goes is up there with midna as one of the most fleshed out characters personality wise in any zelda game. The one shot argument never held any water, and it still doesnt, but either way we know sakurai is looking towards new faces for his newcomers. Relevance wont keep an old character out, but its very easy to see where his attention has been when looking for new blood.

that's nice. I played the game too. Finished it a couple of times.
I saw that scene.
I don't think character personality matters at all.
I think what gets him into the game is the luck of the draw.
if you really think personality matters you should take a look at mii fighters, villager, WFT, Ice Climbers etc.

I doubt it matters. What matters is his recency and Sakurai's thirst for a new character from the LoZ series

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

that's nice. I played the game too. Finished it a couple of times.
I saw that scene.
I don't think character personality matters at all.
I think what gets him into the game is the luck of the draw.
if you really think personality matters you should take a look at mii fighters, villager, WFT, Ice Climbers etc.

it adds to the characters presence in the game as well, but sure it's not gonna make a big difference to him being chosen . But you were comparing their personalities, so that's what I responded to, not how that would gain him a spot. And it would not be a luck of the draw kind of situation, no character is chosen without consideration for what they bring.

 

[Nat Perry]

No matter what happens I'll probably be satisfied with roster at this point, given they bring back all the Brawl characters sans Snake, Squirtle, and Ivysaur, although Squirtle and Ivysaur would make great DLC.

I'd love to have Krystal, K. Rool, Ghirahim, and Ray MK III, but I'll probably be happy with anything. We already have Palutena, Pac Man, and Robin, I'm ready for whatever Sakurai throws at us.

 

[Kenith]

Let's talk DLC.

Who do you guys think is a good choice for a DLC character?
My personal pick, if there was one DLC character, would be Captain Toad.

 

[Nat Perry]

Paper Mario. The first two Paper Mario games are two of my favorite games of all time.

 

[KageJuin]

I wonder what characters are actually being considered rather than the characters people just root for.
paper mario sounds like geno to me.
lots of fanboys, just no happening

 

[~Krystal~]

Mmmm... if my number one requested is already in, then my DLC pick would go to Captain Toad. Paper Mario would also be ideal, but I'd like any version of Toad to get a chance first.

 

[Kenith]

Paper Mario. The first two Paper Mario games are two of my favorite games of all time.

I agree. I haven't played the original all the way through, mainly because it was too slow, but TTYD is one of the games every made in my opinion.

Also, I'd like to say something regarding uniqueness.
Most of the time, when people try to define what would make a potential newcomer unique, they compare them to fighting game archetypes that haven't been in Smash before. However, I think it's simpler than that. I think that if a character does something no one else in Smash does, it doesn't matter how close they are to any fighting game trope.

For example, no other character in this series is made of paper and can turn into papercrafts. It stands out from other characters in Smash, and that is all that matters.

 

[Nat Perry]

I agree. I haven't played the original all the way through, mainly because it was too slow, but TTYD is one of the games every made in my opinion.

Also, I'd like to say something regarding uniqueness.
Most of the time, when people try to define what would make a potential newcomer unique, they compare them to fighting game archetypes that haven't been in Smash before. However, I think it's simpler than that. I think that if a character does something no one else in Smash does, it doesn't matter how close they are to any fighting game trope.

For example, no other character in this series is made of paper and can turn into papercrafts. It stands out from other characters in Smash, and that is all that matters.

I'd like to agree with that. I don't really pay attention to other fighting games because I dislike how they play, I'm more into spontaneity and not trying to get that one combo in. But yeah I agree. As long as they have something to stand out from the pack, and it intuitively works, then that's all that matters. I love how in Smash we have the likes of Mr. Game & Watch and Mega Man.

As for Paper Mario, I'd like to encourage you to play all the way through. It's worth it, even though at the end it kinda leaves you feeling empty because it has one of those endings that has a infinite "The End" screen; there's no post-play just power off, reset, and start anew. But anyways try playing through it.

As for Toad, it would be so excellent to be able to choose between Toad, Toadette, Toadsworth, and Captain Toad. Not excluding recolors for normal Toad.

 

[Zynux]

I think he's plenty interesting, but these are opinions, and opinions are irrelevant here.

Doesn't this make your entire post that I'm now quoting from irrelevant, since its filled with opinionated, subjective notions?

As many have noted, yes, he has been in three games, but he was one of many antagonists in two of those, and, in the case of Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures, while canon, are both multiplayer stage-based games, effectively making them spin-offs.

I fail to see how Four Swords being a "multiplayer based, stage-based game" arbitrarily relegates them to being "effectively spin-offs" even when the stories are canonically featured in Nintendo's official Zelda timeline. Neither being a multiplayer game or a stage-base game qualifies them as "spin-offs," nor would that distinction even be relevant to begin with. All the games Vaati has appeared in are objectively canon to Zelda lore, in same vein as Skyward Sword is also objectively canon to Zelda lore. Different game mechanics don't all of a sudden make a game a spin-off.

I should probably note right now that I don't care about Vaati at all (emphasis needed), but I don't agree with that particular argument against him.

With that said, I do agree with you that Skyward Sword being a more popular game then the Minish Cap could indeed give Ghirahim an edge over Vaati.

Let's talk DLC.

Who do you guys think is a good choice for a DLC character?
My personal pick, if there was one DLC character, would be Captain Toad.

I always felt that Mewtwo would be the most logical candidate for DLC, as his overwhelming worldwide popularity would market DLC very easily. I feel that there is no character to advertise DLC easier with then Mewtwo.

 

[Nat Perry]

Hmmm I too think that Mewtwo would make a great DLC character. But he can't be the only one. He'd have to be the first one they announce.

 

[Sebz]

Unique/Crazy DLC ideas

• Magic Mii: Mii that borrows moves from Zelda/Robin/Palutena/add soon to be announced magic character.
• Hawlucha: Rising popularity and prominent role in the anime will turn him into the new "Heracross"
• Tetra: Shares some of sheik's moves
• Tharja: Popular FE character who is entirely magic based
• Bayonetta: "I guess it's time to have a smashing good time."
• Professor E.Gadd: Crazy gizmos galore
• Birdo: Basically a Yoshi clone
• Mona/Orbulon/etc..: Warioware really deserves another rep
• Dragonite: B**CHES LOVE DRAGONITE
• Anthony:" ANTHONY REMEMBERS!"
• Mr. EAD from F-Zero: The Rufus of Smash

 

[Kenith]

Doesn't this make your entire post that I'm now quoting from irrelevant, since its filled with opinionated, subjective notions?

You are taking that statement completely out of context.

I fail to see how Four Swords being a "multiplayer based, stage-based game" arbitrarily relegates them to being "effectively spin-offs" even when the stories are canonically featured in Nintendo's official Zelda timeline. Neither being a multiplayer game or a stage-base game qualifies them as "spin-offs," nor would that distinction even be relevant to begin with. All the games Vaati has appeared in are objectively canon to Zelda lore, in same vein as Skyward Sword is also objectively canon to Zelda lore. Different game mechanics don't all of a sudden make a game a spin-off.

My point is that they aren't the core series, if they were, they would not have been released near the same time as the Wind Waker. Just because they are canon does not make them part of the main series of games, which are the adventure based console titles.

Regardless of what your definition of spin-off is, Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures are not given the treatment that the console titles are.

With that said, I do agree with you that Skyward Sword being a more popular game then the Minish Cap could indeed give Ghirahim an edge over Vaati.

I don't recall ever stating this.

 

[Pizzanigs]

I'll start talking about DLC once my most wanted character is in.

 

[Nat Perry]

Unique/Crazy DLC ideas

• Magic Mii: Mii that borrows moves from Zelda/Robin/Palutena/add soon to be announced magic character.
• Hawlucha: Rising popularity and prominent role in the anime will turn him into the new "Heracross"
• Tetra: Shares some of sheik's moves
• Tharja: Popular FE character who is entirely magic based
• Bayonetta: "I guess it's time to have a smashing good time."
• Professor E.Gadd: Crazy gizmos galore
• Birdo: Basically a Yoshi clone
• Mona/Orbulon/etc..: Warioware really deserves another rep
• Dragonite: B**CHES LOVE DRAGONITE
• Anthony:" ANTHONY REMEMBERS!"
• Mr. EAD from F-Zero: The Rufus of Smash

I really only agree with Magic Mii, Tetra, and Anthony, haha. I disagree with Tharja pretty hard whenever she's brought up, I don't know about you but people don't really like her for the right reasons, and she isn't even unique, especially now that we have Robin, who also wields dark magic now.

But yeah, I'd like Magic Mii and Tetra. Anthony would make an awesome joke character, haha. I actually made a moveset for him a few months back, his taunts were cheesy as heck and I loved it. Imagine being able to open and close his visor a la Lucina's mask and have him say "Remember me?" each time you deactivate it.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Tharja would be a worthless addition, especially now that we have four FE reps, two from Awakening. A Magic Mii for DLC? I'd love that as an option. Tetra? No thanks, Impa would be better.

I don't particularly think any of those DLC options are any good except for Magic Mii, personally. Having alternate types of Mii's would be a cool addition.

 

[Kenith]

Magic Mii type as DLC?

I'd rather release DLC that allows me to remove Miis from my game.
That's just me, though.

 

[Nat Perry]

Magic Mii type as DLC?

I'd rather release DLC that allows me to remove Miis from my game.
That's just me, though.

Who'd you fill the void with? Not including Toad.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Magic Mii type as DLC?

I'd rather release DLC that allows me to remove Miis from my game.
That's just me, though.

They're already in the game, that's the most pointless thing ever.

 

[Nat Perry]

They're already in the game, that's the most pointless thing ever.

Haha Kenith is being humorous and serious at the same time

 

[Kenith]

They're already in the game, that's the most pointless thing ever.

I was joking. They're already in, the damage is has been done.

Who'd you fill the void with? Not including Toad.

Hope that Sakurai will add actual characters instead of Miis.

 

[Bloop]

Talking DLC, I really want to say Shulk, but I feel like he's one of those that's either in the main roster or not in the game at all.
Other than that, Mewtwo is guaranteed DLC in my mind if he's not on the initial roster, but after that, I kinda draw a blank.

I feel like a third or 4th DK rep could be in there as DLC, and possibly the 5th Zelda rep, but other than that, so many of the characters who really seem to have a chance, ala Rythem Heaven character, Issac, Takamaru, Shulk, Ridley, all seem to me like characters that make no sense as DLC and need to be on the initial roster to have a shot.

I'd also really love to see the Inklings as DLC, but I doubt it'll happen.

 

[Nat Perry]

Yeah if Mewtwo isn't in the game he'll definitely be the face of Smash DLC haha.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Talking DLC, I really want to say Shulk, but I feel like he's one of those that's either in the main roster or not in the game at all.
Other than that, Mewtwo is guaranteed DLC in my mind if he's not on the initial roster, but after that, I kinda draw a blank.

I feel like a third or 4th DK rep could be in there as DLC, and possibly the 5th Zelda rep, but other than that, so many of the characters who really seem to have a chance, ala Rythem Heaven character, Issac, Takamaru, Shulk, Ridley, all seem to me like characters that make no sense as DLC and need to be on the initial roster to have a shot.

I'd also really love to see the Inklings as DLC, but I doubt it'll happen.

You mean 6th Zelda rep. 4th DK character maybe, but I think its just as likely for Dixie Kong to end up being a late semiclone of Diddy, just with Diddy's tail attacks replaced by Dixie's hair attacks (and the recovery changed). Pretty sure a third DK character is all but guaranteed at this point, and signs point more towards K. Rool than Dixie with the return of the Kremlings, but I really would like both in the main game.

 

[Nat Perry]

Yeah, I REALLY want K. Rool not as a Smash Run boss but an actual character.

Also I just really want to see an abundance of alt costume characters, DLC or on-disc. Like Daisy, Dixie, Louie, and Dark Pit.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah, I REALLY want K. Rool not as a Smash Run boss but an actual character.

I had little confidence in K. Rool before the Smash Direct, before that I figured Dixie was basically going to be the rep (but I wanted K. Rool more, despite loving both). After the Direct I had a complete 180, and ever since we've only heard more and more hints and rumors about additional Kremling love, not to mention just how badass these Kritters are... Kritters usually are extremely easy, but these Kritters all have their own different forms of attack and clearly had a lot of effort put into them. Then after Lucina, I came to the conclusion that it was entirely possible we could get both Dixie and K. Rool (before that point I was like "eh, I'll give it 50/50), now I'm a lot more confident there's an excellent chance we can get both.

That said, I think one is a guarantee at this point, with K. Rool more likely. If by some travesty they don't both make it in (probably Dixie), she could be DLC. But at the very least right now I think she'd be a semiclone of Diddy.