Character Discussion Thread

[Maxilian]

So if we want to talk about characters who have uniqueness going for them above all else...

Geno.

As far as i know, Geno is no more a Nintendo character, that's why he have almost no chance on becoming a playable character (He's a Square Enix character)

 

[Morbi]

As far as i know, Geno is no more a Nintendo character, that's why he have almost no chance on becoming a playable character (He's a Square Enix character)

Solid Snake (Konami) , Sonic the Hedgehog (Sega) , Mega Man (Capcom) , and Pac-Man (Namco-Bandai) are all third party characters. In fact, Sonic was granted the honor of returning despite his non-Nintendo status. Therefore, Geno has as much as a chance as any of these characters. I believe that it is fair to assert that no one in their right mind ever thought that Snake would ever be included into Super Smash Brothers prior to his inclusion.

Spoiler

 

[EmceeEspio]

I suppose that makes sense as Geno is neither relevant, nor recent. He is not prevalent or prominent, popular or iconic. In fact, he is not highly requested. However, there is always the chance that Sakurai will include him based on his arbitrary uniqueness.

Dark Pit on the other hand...

Is this because of the discussion at hand or are you assuming that I support Dark Pit because of my profile pic?

Just asking.

 

[Morbi]

Is this because of the discussion at hand or are you assuming that I support Dark Pit because of my profile pic?

Just asking.

Neither, I did not even realize that you supported Dark Pit. I was just facetiously asserting that Dark Pit actually has prominence within Kid Icarus, and he is a relatively popular character with that overt move-set potential... unlike Geno.

 

[EmceeEspio]

Neither, I did not even realize that you supported Dark Pit. I was just facetiously asserting that Dark Pit actually has prominence within Kid Icarus, and he is a relatively popular character with that overt move-set potential... unlike Geno.

Actually, I don't support Dark, really. I feel like the character isn't really one that I would support, albeit being one I love in his own series and my not minding his inclusion should it come to.

But really, any support Sakurai gives him is any support he needs, and will get as far as I'm concerned.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Well everything said here are nothing more than opinions and ideas (unless you actually quote a authority saying that -Nintendo, Sakurai, etc...- ) so i don't think we need to use "I think" or "IMO"

Note: Also i mainly say that, cause it will be silly to have Dixie as a clone, cause that would make her a Diddy clone, and her main abilities are with her hair, so it wouldn't make much sense, and it would be sad if they make King K. Rool as a clone

There's only so much the hair can do. She wouldn't be a complete clone, obviously, but the two would share many similarities.

You're right when you say that Sakurai could change it, but is not that simple to modify completely a character, that's why i say i doubt that's going to happen, and these also apply what i said before... is nothing more than an opinion, that's what i think about the character, that doesn't mean that's what is going to happen...

But that isn't what you said. You said it won't. "I doubt X, Y, and Z will happen" is perfectly reasonable. Just don't say it flat-out won't.

Also Smash Development started in 2011... (at least, cause that was when it was shown, so it most likely started before that and the character roster was selected before that)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._for_Nintendo_3DS_and_Wii_U

Note: In general i'm not against the idea of having Impa, i just want her to be an unique character, and i really doubt that she will be an unique character if she comes out with the game but if she comes out as a DLC she could be pretty unique

Smash was announced in 2011, but development didn't start until Kid Icarus Uprising was finished, iirc. Can't source it, so take it with a grain of salt, but announced and in development are most certainly two very different things.

 

[KageJuin]

What if Sakurai placed trophies to mislead us?
Create conventions to make us think we know what's coming and then turn the tables on us?

Like he did with Chrom, the last reveal with monolithsoft while having no Shulk.

He may have given us hope with trophies, just to pull a fast one.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You guys are missing the point with the unique playstyle thing. Geno is a third party character, and is relatively obscure compared to the ones we have. He isn't going to be in the game. However, he would certainly be cool to play as I would think. But the 3rd party issues are pretty much holding him back, and will continue to hold him back.

The playstyle in question needs to make sense with the character. Robin's playstyle makes sense. It's nifty because it basically embodies Fire Emblem based on the concept of breaking/losing weapons. However, on the fighting game side of it, he's essentially a risk reward character with his exchange of the Levin Sword and Magic. That's what I'm talking about with gameplay. Not what they use, but what kind of moveset they would have.

The popularity of a series might have mattered a whole bunch in previous Smash titles, but this isn't Brawl anymore. Clearly. There were plenty of big characters they needed to add, like Wario and Diddy Kong. Those are essential characters. There are hardly any "essential" characters left. So gameplay is what drives these characters for the most part.

It's really not a hard concept. What makes this character different? What can they do that nobody else can? What would make somebody want to play as this character? Pretty much all of those characters revealed so far have something awesome coming with them. Something that a lot of the rest of the roster doesn't have. That's what got Rosalina, Greninja, and arguably Wii Fit Trainer in the game as it is.

I digress. I get the vibe nobody is going to read or listen to this because of the precious sales that absolutely don't matter. Or the idea that Sakurai thinks a character should get in to represent a game.

"Oh wow! That game sold well! Let's add a character just because of that!" No. That's not going to happen.
"Wow. I like that game. Let's add a character to represent this one game." No. That won't happen either.

Before you say Sheik, she was added because of gameplay. The transformation gimmick was a great idea (that didn't work very well). Sheik is probably safe now due to nostalgia as it is.

Bottom line is, that a character has to have something unique going for them, and it has to make sense for them to be added. Arbitrary reasons like the ones that are thrown around all the time are not really as important as people make them out to be.

Take it for what you will. But that's my stance on the topic.

 

[Maxilian]

Ignore these... these never happened, you never saw these...

 

[ihskeyp]

What if Sakurai placed trophies to mislead us?
Create conventions to make us think we know what's coming and then turn the tables on us?

Like he did with Chrom, the last reveal with monolithsoft while having no Shulk.

He may have given us hope with trophies, just to pull a fast one.

Or he just placed trophies to show off the trophies, and had no hidden intentions to hint at characters and the smash community created a theory based off of nothing.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well... yeah that's kind of true, but i just wanted to point out why he have it hard, also... you remember what Sakurai said about Geno last time? well if you don't remember, here you have:

If You Keep Asking About Geno, I Will Delay Smash Brothers by Masahiro Sakurai

I sometimes wish that I could bring myself to let go of some of the responsibility for Smash Brothers, but I can’t. Because of this, people know who to complain to about any problems with the game which includes the character roster.

However, I have finally decided to tackle these complaints head-on for at least fans of a certain character. This is my threat. Every time I am asked to include Geno into Smash Brothers, I will delay the game’s release by one day. Stop asking me to add him.

I mean, I remember during Brawl that many people were outraged when I included Captain Olimar. They said that Olimar was only in two games and since Geno was also in two games, if you include his cameo, that he deserves as much representation. Some even said that Super Mario RPG is more important than both Pikmin games and so Olimar should just be replaced.

I’m afraid of including a representative from Rhythm Heaven because of this. I can already see it now, people complaining that Rhythm Heaven is not a real Nintendo series, that Karate Joe is not a true Nintendo character like Geno, or that the rhythm game genre is not a real genre when compared to RPG games.

I have heard from Shigesato Itoi-san that Mother fans were bad. Well, I think I have him beat. At least Mother is a Nintendo game series. This character doesn’t even belong to Nintendo and I didn’t have any involvement with the game. Snake’s not a Nintendo character but at least he is very popular; only a few extremely vocal fans care about Geno. I’ve seen people argue that if Geno can’t be included because he wasn’t designed by Nintendo that Diddy Kong should be removed because he was designed by Rare.

Every day I receive all these letters, e-mails and packages for this worthless character. Why spend the effort? Go do something more productive. I don’t want to lose the ability to use my arm because I keep opening letters expecting a fan’s praise about Kid Icarus: Uprising and instead getting some stupid note saying include Geno please.

I’m still not sure whether or not to show a trailer during the upcoming E3 Nintendo Direct. I don’t want to receive any death threats when people realize Geno isn’t in it.

http://www.p4rgaming.com/masahiro-s...to-smash-bros-i-delay-the-release-by-one-day/

Yeah i think you get it

That was a parody article.

 

[Scamper52596]

What if Sakurai placed trophies to mislead us?
Create conventions to make us think we know what's coming and then turn the tables on us?

Like he did with Chrom, the last reveal with monolithsoft while having no Shulk.

He may have given us hope with trophies, just to pull a fast one.

That's one of the reasons that I choose not to believe the Trophy Quiz rumor.

 

[Maxilian]

That was a parody article.

Oh jeez i feel so stupid now

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Oh jeez i feel so stupid now

Eh, we all make mistakes.

 

[Big-Cat]

And Scol's post remains ignored. He's right, you know.

 

[Maxilian]

So yeah... lets talk a little about these 3:

Mainly Ganondorf... (Actually i don't want to talk about them, i just wanted an excuse to post these picture)

 

[Morbi]

You guys are missing the point with the unique playstyle thing. Geno is a third party character, and is relatively obscure compared to the ones we have. He isn't going to be in the game. However, he would certainly be cool to play as I would think. But the 3rd party issues are pretty much holding him back, and will continue to hold him back.

The playstyle in question needs to make sense with the character. Robin's playstyle makes sense. It's nifty because it basically embodies Fire Emblem based on the concept of breaking/losing weapons. However, on the fighting game side of it, he's essentially a risk reward character with his exchange of the Levin Sword and Magic. That's what I'm talking about with gameplay. Not what they use, but what kind of moveset they would have.

The popularity of a series might have mattered a whole bunch in previous Smash titles, but this isn't Brawl anymore. Clearly. There were plenty of big characters they needed to add, like Wario and Diddy Kong. Those are essential characters. There are hardly any "essentialy" characters left. So gameplay is what drives these characters for the most part.

It's really not a hard concept. What makes this character different? What can they do that nobody else can? What would make somebody want to play as this character? Pretty much all of those characters revealed so far have something awesome coming with them. Something that a lot of the rest of the roster doesn't have. That's what got Rosalina, Greninja, and arguably Wii Fit Trainer in the game as it is.

I digress. I get the vibe nobody is going to read or listen to this because of the precious sales that absolutely don't matter. Or the idea that Sakurai thinks a character should get in to represent a game.

"Oh wow! That game sold well! Let's add a character just because of that!" No. That's not going to happen.
"Wow. I like that game. Let's add a character to represent this one game." No. That won't happen either.

Before you say Sheik, she was added because of gameplay. The transformation gimmick was a great idea (that didn't work very well). Sheik is probably safe now due to nostalgia as it is.

Bottom line is, that a character has to have something unique going for them, and it has to make sense for them to be added. Arbitrary reasons like the ones that are thrown around all the time are not really as important as people make them out to be.

Take it for what you will. But that's my stance on the topic.

It is fallacious to assert that sales "absolutely" do not matter, that is synonymous with "objective" and therefore your statement is not true unless you can support this baseless claim with evidence. I; however, doubt that you will ever find a source that establishes that it is entirely irrelevant. Do not misconstrue this as: "sales mean everything, muh precious sales guarantee characters!" That is not what I mean to insinuate, my point is that sales will always be contributing aspect of a characters inclusion, even if it is not intended to be, it is going to be an inherent factor regardless. Honestly, if you do not agree, you are adhering to confirmation bias.

 

[Big-Cat]

It is fallacious to assert that sales "absolutely" do not matter, that is synonymous with "objective" and therefore your statement is not true unless you can support this baseless claim with evidence. I; however, doubt that you will ever find a source that establishes that it is entirely irrelevant. Do not misconstrue this as: "sales mean everything, muh precious sales guarantee characters!" That is not what I mean to insinuate, my point is that sales will always be contributing aspect of a characters inclusion, even if it is not intended to be, it is going to be an inherent factor regardless. Honestly, if you do not agree, you are adhering to confirmation bias.

Popularity matters if anything, not sales. Rosalina is very much a dark horse character. Are you going to say that the games she appeared in sold well and contributed to her inclusion?

 

[KageJuin]

Popularity matters if anything, not sales. Rosalina is very much a dark horse character. Are you going to say that the games she appeared in sold well and contributed to her inclusion?

Do you want to ignore the fact that Sakurai's character choices fall in three categories?
1. Popularity (directly correlated to sales)
2. Retro revivals (NES era or earlier)
3. Unique moveset potential


I will allow you to guess which one Rosalina fits into

 

[Morbi]

Or he just placed trophies to show off the trophies, and had no hidden intentions to hint at characters and the smash community created a theory based off of nothing.

Incorrect. It is not a baseless theory; Palutena's confirmation, Robin's confirmation along with subtle allusions to Ridley as a character (or at the very least, the notion that he is not blatantly confirmed as a boss) would all indicate the the theory has a base. It is not materiel that you believe the theory to be coincidence as there is quite (obviously) a bit of support regarding the theory. In fact...

What if Sakurai placed trophies to mislead us?
Create conventions to make us think we know what's coming and then turn the tables on us?

Like he did with Chrom, the last reveal with monolithsoft while having no Shulk.

He may have given us hope with trophies, just to pull a fast one.

This post is much more accurate and intelligible (not riddled with self-referential incoherence). It does not disregard that the theory is thus far accurate (my math might be off, but I believe that it is 50/50; almost as accurate as everyone's favorite God, Sal Romano when they started to buy into that) as he is not incompetent. He is insinuating that perhaps Sakurai has decided to manipulate our perception of probability by illuminating a few potential candidates.

I do agree with him to an extent. Tiki has an overt correlation with Robin AND Lucina, and Id-Purpose is associated with Robin. I am an advocate of the theory as I already supported another Legend of Zelda representative since I joined this site and Ridley since the April Direct (for reasons not pertaining to this theory). It confirms my beliefs that have been thus far accurate (enabling me to avoid various fallacies that almost everyone here fell victim to). However, it could certainly be Sakurai attempting to throw off people who actually analyze the information presented to us. Regardless, it has more credibility than Sal Romano ever did and people treated that as gospel... until he was incorrect about one character that is easily explainable. Hypocrisy plagues these boards, unfortunately.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It is fallacious to assert that sales "absolutely" do not matter, that is synonymous with "objective" and therefore your statement is not true unless you can support this baseless claim with evidence. I; however, doubt that you will ever find a source that establishes that it is entirely irrelevant. Do not misconstrue this as: "sales mean everything, muh precious sales guarantee characters!" That is not what I mean to insinuate, my point is that sales will always be contributing aspect of a characters inclusion, even if it is not intended to be, it is going to be an inherent factor regardless. Honestly, if you do not agree, you are adhering to confirmation bias.

Ike is the lord of the worst selling Fire Emblem. Looks like we can't add him...oh wait.

Shulk is the main protagonist from a game that sold decently, but was only released at one company. Too bad his unique gameplay won't save him because his game didn't sell well...what? You can see where I'm going with this.

Sales won't matter unless you can show me where Sakurai says it's a criteria for picking a character. Show me he says it, and MAYBE i'll believe you. He's given criteria before, and sales weren't one of them.

If sales were a big deal, Pokemon, Zelda, and Mario would have waay more characters than we already do from each series. But Sakurai cares about roster balance too, so that doesn't happen.

 

[Morbi]

Popularity matters if anything, not sales. Rosalina is very much a dark horse character. Are you going to say that the games she appeared in sold well and contributed to her inclusion?

Ike is the lord of the worst selling Fire Emblem. Looks like we can't add him...oh wait.


Shulk is the main protagonist from a game that sold decently, but was only released at one company. Too bad his unique gameplay won't save him because his game didn't sell well...what? You can see where I'm going with this.
Game-play is more important than "sales" but "sales" still enable Xenoblade to have a potential representative over another game with a more unique candidate that no one has ever heard of.

Sales won't matter unless you can show me where Sakurai says it's a criteria for picking a character. Show me he says it, and MAYBE i'll believe you. He's given criteria before, and sales weren't one of them.
It is an inherent aspect of inclusion regardless of intent. I cannot "illuminate" this as it is common-sense. There is an overt and direct correlation. For instance, you even reference this with "Shulk" as those are "relative" sales. The game does not need to outperform all Nintendo games.

If sales were a big deal, Pokemon, Zelda, and Mario would have waay more characters than we already do from each series. But Sakurai cares about roster balance too, so that doesn't happen.
That is "proportional representation" which is not relevant to anything that I stated.

It is not enough to avoid reading my post and cite the exceptions to the rule.

It is fallacious to assert that sales "absolutely" do not matter, that is synonymous with "objective" and therefore your statement is not true unless you can support this baseless claim with evidence. I; however, doubt that you will ever find a source that establishes that it is entirely irrelevant. Do not misconstrue this as: "sales mean everything, muh precious sales guarantee characters!" That is not what I mean to insinuate, my point is that sales will always be contributing aspect of a characters inclusion, even if it is not intended to be, it is going to be an inherent factor regardless. Honestly, if you do not agree, you are adhering to confirmation bias.

Edit- I responded to each of your (Jones) assertions, except for the Ike one.

 

[Big-Cat]

Do you want to ignore the fact that Sakurai's character choices fall in three categories?
1. Popularity (directly correlated to sales)
2. Retro revivals (NES era or earlier)
3. Unique moveset potential

I will allow you to guess which one Rosalina fits into

Those are our interpretations of the criteria.

His main criterion are if the character brings anything new to the table and if said character has something only they can do. So far, every character added this game has had a massive gameplay emphasis and fulfilled those two requirements. The only "exception" is Lucina and I can already tell you she'll have her own playstyle in the end.

 

[Johnknight1]

Apparently Sakurai talks about sales and not gameplay.

So apparently what everything Sakurai said is a lie.

I guess the words he spoke were confirmation bias of his opinion, related from his PTSD from programming Ridley in the SSE because Ridley was so big he was smaller than Tabuu.

 

[Morbi]

Those are our interpretations of the criteria.

His main criterion are if the character brings anything new to the table and if said character has something only they can do. So far, every character added this game has had a massive gameplay emphasis and fulfilled those two requirements. The only "exception" is Lucina and I can already tell you she'll have her own playstyle in the end.

Here is a question for you that will make what we are trying to state EXTREMELY apparent. What happens if you have two characters, one from a AAA series that is iconic, prevalent, and prominent and one from a series that did not perform well-enough to warrant a sequel? Both characters have the same observable move-set potential. Who does Sakurai, or any logical being, choose?

Better yet, what happens when character "a" happens to have less move-set potential than character "b."

I cannot even believe that this warrants discussion.

 

[ihskeyp]

Incorrect. It is not a baseless theory; Palutena's confirmation, Robin's confirmation along with subtle allusions to Ridley as a character (or at the very least, the notion that he is not blatantly confirmed as a boss) would all indicate the the theory has a base. It is not materiel that you believe the theory to be coincidence as there is quite (obviously) a bit of support regarding the theory. In fact...

This post is much more accurate and intelligible (not riddled with self-referential incoherence). It does not disregard that the theory is thus far accurate (my math might be off, but I believe that it is 50/50; almost as accurate as everyone's favorite God, Sal Romano when they started to buy into that) as he is not incompetent. He is insinuating that perhaps Sakurai has decided to manipulate our perception of probability by illuminating a few potential candidates.

I do agree with him to an extent. Tiki has an overt correlation with Robin AND Lucina, and Id-Purpose is associated with Robin. I am an advocate of the theory as I already supported another Legend of Zelda representative since I joined this site and Ridley since the April Direct (for reasons not pertaining to this theory). It confirms my beliefs that have been thus far accurate (enabling me to avoid various fallacies that almost everyone here fell victim to). However, it could certainly be Sakurai attempting to throw off people who actually analyze the information presented to us. Regardless, it has more credibility than Sal Romano ever did and people treated that as gospel... until he was incorrect about one character that is easily explainable. Hypocrisy plagues these boards, unfortunately.

I think that everyone, since the game was announced, expected at least one new character from Awakening and Kid Icarus. The trophy theory could be true, but so far nothing unpredictable has happened to lead towards it's confirmation. A legend of Zelda character/Metroid character would be more in the theories favor, since they are a little less predictable.

 

[Johnknight1]

Here is a question for you that will make what we are trying to state EXTREMELY apparent. What happens if you have two characters, one from a AAA series that is iconic, prevalent, and prominent and one from a series that did not perform well-enough to warrant a sequel? Both characters have the same observable move-set potential. Who does Sakurai, or any logical being, choose?

Better yet, what happens when character "a" happens to have less move-set potential than character "b."

I cannot even believe that this warrants discussion.

I remember when that happened.

ROB and that blue buff guy were originally planned and that Animal Crossing guy and those Mii thingies got in that Brawl game.

Oh wait!

 

[Morbi]

Apparently Sakurai talks about sales and not gameplay.

So apparently what everything Sakurai said is a lie.

I guess the words he spoke were confirmation bias of his opinion, related from his PTSD from programming Ridley in the SSE because Ridley was so big he was smaller than Tabuu.

Both are aspects of inclusion, no one here is asserting that game-play is not relevant, no one here is asserting that "sales" are more important by any stretch of the imagination. It is something that he CONSIDERS, it is even possible that he is not aware that it is something that he considers as it is an inherent aspect of a characters notability. ANY character can have a unique move-set, ANY character can contribute to the roster, it is the creative director's responsibility to make that happen. Why the **** do you people not read?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It is not enough to avoid reading my post and cite the exceptions to the rule.

Why do you think I don't read your posts? I do. Every time. Sales MIGHT have mattered for Brawl or Melee. But they don't matter nearly as much as you think they do.

For Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS, I have a hard time believing sales are always there.

Sakurai didn't add an Animal Crossing character until now even though it sold well. Why? Because he didn't view the character as the fighting type and couldn't come up with a moveset. Now he has reconsidered the idea and he's playable. With a very unique moveset. Greninja's game wasn't out when he was put into the game. Rosalina got in because of her unique gameplay, not because the Galaxy games sold well or something.

When Little Mac had the section in the April Direct, Sakurai mentioned one thing very specifically. That he was made unique with the K.O meter. He didn't mention sales of Punch-Out!! or anything like that.

Even Wii Fit Trainer, who comes from Wii Fit wasn't added because "muh sales". It was because she was unique. She is all about Fitness and has a unique combination of moves that nobody else has. That's what it boils down to.

Sales MIGHT have mattered. But it really isn't evident with the latest characters in Smash Bros. I still fail to see why Sakurai would eliminate potentially awesome characters because of the sales of a game/series.

 

[Morbi]

I remember when that happened.

ROB and that blue buff guy were originally planned and that Animal Crossing guy and those Mii thingies got in that Brawl game.

Oh wait!

As a different aspect of inclusion was negating that sentiment, he did not believe that Villager "fit" into the Smash Brothers universe, it was certainly an arbitrary notion. I would state that R.O.B's move-set did not offer anything unique at all either; however, that is once again, subjective.

 

[Johnknight1]

Tell me this then

When has Sakurai ever uttered the word "sales".

When=???

The only "relevancy" thing he said for characters is:
1. They have to have originated in video games.
2. If they're 3rd party they gotta be a big deal.
3. A character has to be a major character in their franchise (like all the characters we've had thus far).

That's it.

When it comes down to "this character vs. that character" (which it never does; it's usually programming each individually, and usually non-roster stuff takes priority, like how the SSE cut Mewtwo, Roy, likely all the Forbidden 7 and probably a dozen other characters), it's always about the gameplay and programming of the gameplay.

 

[Rockaphin]

I would state that R.O.B's move-set did not offer anything unique at all either; however, that is once again, subjective.

I agree, this is subjective as I found R.O.B. to be fairly unique.

 

[Scamper52596]

I wish I had waited until now to post my thoughts on character inclusion instead of last night when I did...

 

[Big-Cat]

Here is a question for you that will make what we are trying to state EXTREMELY apparent. What happens if you have two characters, one from a AAA series that is iconic, prevalent, and prominent and one from a series that did not perform well-enough to warrant a sequel? Both characters have the same observable move-set potential. Who does Sakurai, or any logical being, choose?

Better yet, what happens when character "a" happens to have less move-set potential than character "b."

I cannot even believe that this warrants discussion.

For the first, you'd go for the bigger game. If A has less potential than B, however, you go for B. Then you have to see if that character adds anything new to the established roster.

This is a videogame first and foremost. Realize that before you make these sales correlations that have no causation as Sakurai has alluded to sales maybe once over ten years ago.

 

[Johnknight1]

I would state that R.O.B's move-set did not offer anything unique at all either; however, that is once again, subjective.

Wait what=???

If you played the game you'd know R.O.B. is unique. There's no question R.O.B. in Brawl is unique.

R.O.B. has a unique camping-heavy and counter-attacking style no one else has.

R.O.B. also has moves no one else has, and moves unlike any moves any other character has, in regards to execution, animation, effect and style.

It was unique; that's not a question.

The question is whether or not it was BEST FOR BUSINESS GAMEPLAY!!

 

[Morbi]

Why do you think I don't read your posts? I do. Every time. Sales MIGHT have mattered for Brawl or Melee. But they don't matter nearly as much as you think they do.

For Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS, I have a hard time believing sales are always there.

Sakurai didn't add an Animal Crossing character until now even though it sold well. Why? Because he didn't view the character as the fighting type and couldn't come up with a moveset. Now he has reconsidered the idea and he's playable. With a very unique moveset. Greninja's game wasn't out when he was put into the game. Rosalina got in because of her unique gameplay, not because the Galaxy games sold well or something.

When Little Mac had the section in the April Direct, Sakurai mentioned one thing very specifically. That he was made unique with the K.O meter. He didn't mention sales of Punch-Out!! or anything like that.

Even Wii Fit Trainer, who comes from Wii Fit wasn't added because "muh sales". It was because she was unique. She is all about Fitness and has a unique combination of moves that nobody else has. That's what it boils down to.

Sales MIGHT have mattered. But it really isn't evident with the latest characters in Smash Bros. I still fail to see why Sakurai would eliminate potentially awesome characters because of the sales of a game/series.

Probably the straw man fallacy. That MIGHT have been a part of it. Albeit, I am not entirely certain myself.

If you had read, you would find that I never insinuated that sales matter more than game-play (NEVER), I was merely asserting that sales are material to some extent (as there is a direct correlation between relative sales and prominence/requests). I even offered that it might not be something he is consciously aware of. I am not sure how many times I made those disclaimers.

My main point is that there are several aspects of inclusion. Game-play is probably the most important, but it is erroneous to blatantly disregard "sales" even if the notion is negligible.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think it's a bit of both honestly. I think Sakurai just kinda gets a list of notable/popular/successful characters and then ponders what they could do.

If he deems the moveset or gimmick as good, he uses it.

 

[Morbi]

Wait what=???

If you played the game you'd know it was unique. There's no question it was unique. He had a unique camping-heavy and counter-attacking style no one else has.

It was unique; that's not a question.

The question is whether or not it was BEST FOR BUSINESS GAMEPLAY!!

I agree that his play-style is most certainly unique. However, I did not find his move-set to be that captivating.

I agree, this is subjective as I found R.O.B. to be fairly unique.

It is as I say!

Tell me this then

When has Sakurai ever uttered the word "sales".

When=???

The only "relevancy" thing he said for characters is:
1. They have to have originated in video games.
2. If they're 3rd party they gotta be a big deal.
3. A character has to be a major character in their franchise (like all the characters we've had thus far).

That's it.

When it comes down to "this character vs. that character" (which it never does; it's usually programming each individually, and usually non-roster stuff takes priority, like how the SSE cut Mewtwo, Roy, likely all the Forbidden 7 and probably a dozen other characters), it's always about the gameplay and programming of the gameplay.

I never stated that he did; I was asserting that it is an inherent contributing factor to a character's popularity, requests, and most notably their prominence. For the LAST time, I agree with the sentiment that game-play is (by far) the most important notion that influences his decison. My stance is that he at the very least considers sales, cognitively, perhaps.

 

[Big-Cat]

Morbid, when is the last time you played Smash, watched a Smash tournament, or talked about gameplay in Smash?

 

[Starcutter]

Let's talk about Isaac and how he could be different than Robin.

If Robin is a long range-close range character, maybe Isaac could be a midrange-close range character with his earth psynergys and his sword.