Character Discussion Thread

[domokl]

Ridley is hard to discuss from an argumentative standpoint. From a standpoint of inferring from things we've already seen, it's easy to conclude that Ridley is probably going to be a boss, as indicated by Sakurai strongly hinting at that notion in the Direct.

But honestly, I don't know exactly why Ridley should or should not be playable, or which role would be best for him to take in the game. I'm leaning towards him being a boss, not just because of evidence but because I think that role best fits him. I just know these things:

1. Ridley has always been a boss in the Metroid series.
2. Ridley has always been a boss/hazard outside the Metroid series when he's not just an SSBM trophy (Nintendoland, Brawl, Dead or Alive).
3. Save for his size in NES Metroid, which is due to Samus' short firing range, he has always been large. Changing sizes, but always large, and several times larger than Samus.
4. Even though he's small in comparison to other Metroid bosses like Kraid or Phantoon, he is still large.
5. His gargantuan size is not his most important characteristic but it is a consistent one. He has been able to intimidate Samus, as well as harm her and grab her as if she was an action figure in comparison to him. No doubt size could be partly attributed to his ability to do that.
6. Ridley has consistently been able to come back from the dead in some form, to Samus' surprise.

I mean, these are just facts. I really don't think it'd be best for him to be playable. You could say that Ganondorf has always been a big bad boss that's has been able to constantly come back from the dead. But think about it. In Metroid, it's just yourself, and maybe sometimes some outside help (i.e. GF, 07th Platoon, The Baby, etc.) but you're really out by yourself and for yourself. In Zelda, it's you (Link) and a whole slew of characters actively willing to help you out (Fairies, Zelda, Midna, various townsfolk, etc.). You're on an adventure, and you can be separated from other friends at home and other places, but you're never alone. Samus is alone. She's got Anthony and the GF, which she cannot wholly trust anymore due to the events in Other M and Fusion. Not only is she alone, she's got her nemesis Ridley who for some reason keeps coming back and wants her dead.

I don't really know. It just doesn't seem right for Ridley to be playable, although I could be wrong. I could try to elaborate more but it isn't really worth it, haha. We'll just have to see what happens in the upcoming months!

Thats the thing though. Ridley perfectly reprensents that other side of metroid the large bosses that everybody loves and the dark enemies. The only other metroid character to even come a bit close to that role is Dark sam us which is probably a topic for ssb5. he also has all the other criteria in his favor as well. it just makes sense to me.

 

[Nat Perry]

Dark Samus is more or less Metroid's Vaati.

There's also the argument that Ridley always being a boss on one stage could get redundant, but you don't have to play on that stage all the time.

But regarding Ridley perfectly representing the bosses of Metroid...I don't know if being playable will "perfectly" represent that aspect of Metroid. It can go either way but from what we've shown it's more than reasonable to believe he'll be a boss.

 

[Scamper52596]

Ridley is hard to discuss from an argumentative standpoint. From a standpoint of inferring from things we've already seen, it's easy to conclude that Ridley is probably going to be a boss, as indicated by Sakurai strongly hinting at that notion in the Direct.

But honestly, I don't know exactly why Ridley should or should not be playable, or which role would be best for him to take in the game. I'm leaning towards him being a boss, not just because of evidence but because I think that role best fits him. I just know these things:

1. Ridley has always been a boss in the Metroid series.
2. Ridley has always been a boss/hazard outside the Metroid series when he's not just an SSBM trophy (Nintendoland, Brawl, Dead or Alive).
3. Save for his size in NES Metroid, which is due to Samus' short firing range, he has always been large. Changing sizes, but always large, and several times larger than Samus.
4. Even though he's small in comparison to other Metroid bosses like Kraid or Phantoon, he is still large.
5. His gargantuan size is not his most important characteristic but it is a consistent one. He has been able to intimidate Samus, as well as harm her and grab her as if she was an action figure in comparison to him. No doubt size could be partly attributed to his ability to do that.
6. Ridley has consistently been able to come back from the dead in some form, to Samus' surprise.

I mean, these are just facts. I really don't think it'd be best for him to be playable. You could say that Ganondorf has always been a big bad boss that's has been able to constantly come back from the dead. But think about it. In Metroid, it's just yourself, and maybe sometimes some outside help (i.e. GF, 07th Platoon, The Baby, etc.) but you're really out by yourself and for yourself. In Zelda, it's you (Link) and a whole slew of characters actively willing to help you out (Fairies, Zelda, Midna, Fi, various townsfolk, etc.). You're on an adventure, and you can be separated from other friends at home and other places, but you're never alone. Samus is alone. She's got Anthony and the GF, the latter of which she cannot wholly trust anymore due to the events in Other M and Fusion. Every other personal friend/helper of hers is dead. Not only is she alone, but she has an enemy (Ridley) that keeps coming back from the dead to kill her.

I don't really know. It just doesn't seem right for Ridley to be playable, although I could be wrong. I could try to elaborate more but it isn't really worth it, haha. We'll just have to see what happens in the upcoming months!

So basically what you're saying is that Ridley is too big?

In all seriousness though, I've thought of something pertaining to boss characters, and I have even seen the exact same idea floating around the Internet. It's possible that boss characters could be manipulated through someone using the Gamepad. That way someone might be able to control Ridley around the stage and implement attacks. That way people can finally play as him... to a certain extent. Not sure if Ridley fans would be happy with this, but it's better than him just being a boss character and nothing else. It's just an idea though.

 

[Con0rrrr]

We're discussing Ridley?

Before you can discuss Ridley, I suggest referring to this

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...the-detractors-paradise.324284/#post-14609370

 

[Nat Perry]

Con0rrrr , we can discuss whoever we want here. The Ridley thread sucks аss anyways.

Scamper52596 I'm just saying that given his role in the Metroid series, I think it's best for him to represent the series as a boss. It's not impossible to make model of Ridley that can work as a playable fighter, it would just be wholly original to Smash.

Oh and that idea with controlling bosses isn't a bad idea, it could even be a Wii U-exclusive feature, how about that haha.

 

[ihskeyp]

So basically what you're saying is that Ridley is too big?

In all seriousness though, I've thought of something pertaining to boss characters, and I have even seen the exact same idea floating around the Internet. It's possible that boss characters could be manipulated through someone using the Gamepad. That way someone might be able to control Ridley around the stage and implement attacks. That way people can finally play as him... to a certain extent. Not sure if Ridley fans would be happy with this, but it's better than him just being a boss character and nothing else. It's just an idea though.

I can't remember clearly, but didn't sakurai say that he wasn't going to really use the gamepad for gameplay? Don't take my word for it, but I think it will only be used like the bottom 3ds screen will be used, and for amiibos.

 

[Nat Perry]

Yeah he said something like that, but I think he was more talking about how he won't be giving any gameplay advantages to those who choose to play using the Gamepad. He didn't mention anything about Gamepad usage outside of that though, so that still leaves some possibilities open.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Con0rrrr , we can discuss whoever we want here. The Ridley thread sucks аss anyways.

I never said you couldn't discuss Ridley. I said people should see that post first so that they're educated on the subject. RIdley thread rocks. U suk mate

 

[Nat Perry]

I never said you couldn't discuss Ridley. I said people should see that post first so that they're educated on the subject. RIdley thread rocks. U suk mate

Oh ok, I guess I misinterpreted what you were posting, sorry about that.

As for the Ridley thread, the rudeness I see there displayed by several of the users there turns me off. That's really the primary sucky part of that thread.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Oh ok, I guess I misinterpreted what you were posting, sorry about that.

As for the Ridley thread, the rudeness I see there displayed by several of the users there turns me off. That's really the primary sucky part of that thread.

I think they just get rude when detractors come because they have to voice the same argument again. Hence, why I made that post I linked you to

 

[Nat Perry]

I think they just get rude when detractors come because they have to voice the same argument again. Hence, why I made that post I linked you to

It's an explanation, but not an excuse for people to act like diсkѕ there.

 

[Con0rrrr]

It's an explanation, but not an excuse for people to act like ****ѕ there.

Honestly, could you link me to where someone has been rude enough to be referred to so negatively? Everyone is so great there and I'm pretty active in there. Honestly they're usually welcoming so long as you don't come in acting as they're in denial.

 

[Nat Perry]

I'm not going to point out specific instances here on this thread, I've lurked there long enough to see what goes on there. If anyone disagrees BOOM response, calling them incompetent/dumb/braindead/etc. and it ain't nice. People get way too into it, man.

 

[Con0rrrr]

I'm not going to point out specific instances here on this thread, I've lurked there long enough to see what goes on there. If anyone disagrees BOOM response, calling them incompetent/dumb/braindead/etc. and it ain't nice. People get way too into it, man.

I disagree. They only get rude when the detractor was rude in the first place. It all depends on how you state your stance. Besides, they have a post to be linked to now.

 

[Kenith]

Ridley is hard to discuss from an argumentative standpoint. From a standpoint of inferring from things we've already seen, it's easy to conclude that Ridley is probably going to be a boss, as indicated by Sakurai strongly hinting at that notion in the Direct.

But honestly, I don't know exactly why Ridley should or should not be playable, or which role would be best for him to take in the game. I'm leaning towards him being a boss, not just because of evidence but because I think that role best fits him. I just know these things:

1. Ridley has always been a boss in the Metroid series.
2. Ridley has always been a boss/hazard outside the Metroid series when he's not just an SSBM trophy (Nintendoland, Brawl, Dead or Alive).
3. Save for his size in NES Metroid, which is due to Samus' short firing range, he has always been large. Changing sizes, but always large, and several times larger than Samus.
4. Even though he's small in comparison to other Metroid bosses like Kraid or Phantoon, he is still large.
5. His gargantuan size is not his most important characteristic but it is a consistent one. He has been able to intimidate Samus, as well as harm her and grab her as if she was an action figure in comparison to him. No doubt size could be partly attributed to his ability to do that.
6. Ridley has consistently been able to come back from the dead in some form, to Samus' surprise.
!

All of your points are basically "Ridley is too big". Which is an argument that is loathed on Smashboards because of how pointless is.
It has been officially stated that sizes do not matter in Smash Bros. Olimar is the size of a nickel, yet in Smash Little Mac is hardly taller than him. Ganondorf is canonically 7'3, in Smash he and Link are almost the same height.

The point is, it doesn't matter how big Ridley is in Metroid, he can be rescaled like everyone else. Besides, even if he has always been large, his size is also inconsistent, as is his design, to the point where they could simply redesign him to be smaller.

Also, what does your last point have to do with anything?

 

[Nat Perry]

Con0rrrr , I won't deny that some who disagree are rude, but then again there are some who are not and people there assume things and act accordingly rude.

I'm really into the idea of having an opinion and not being a diсk about it, haha. And that goes for either side of any argument. It's not that difficult. I'm not going to point out specific instances of rudeness, that's not the point of this thread anyways, and if you've been there long enough you should see it at times.

All of your points are basically "Ridley is too big". Which is an argument that is loathed on Smashboards because of how pointless is.
It has been officially stated that sizes do not matter in Smash Bros. Olimar is the size of a nickel, yet in Smash Little Mac is hardly taller than him. Ganondorf is canonically 7'3, in Smash he and Link are almost the same height.

The point is, it doesn't matter how big Ridley is in Metroid, he can be rescaled like everyone else. Besides, even if he has always been large, his size is also inconsistent, as is his design, to the point where they could simply redesign him to be smaller.

Also, what does your last point have to do with anything?

Basically, I'm stating facts about how Ridley is in the Metroid series. His roles, how he is, how he acts, etc. And with those facts, I am lead to believe that it's best for him to rep the series as a boss, not a character. And like you as well I said before, it's completely possible for them to make a wholly original, playable model of Ridley specifically for Smash. It's just that I think it's a better fit for him to be a boss character, rather than a playable one.

 

[Con0rrrr]

@ Con0rrrr , I won't deny that some who disagree are rude, but then again there are some who are not and people there assume things and act accordingly rude.

I'm really into the idea of having an opinion and not being a diсk about it, haha. And that goes for either side of any argument. It's not that difficult. I'm not going to point out specific instances of rudeness, that's not the point of this thread anyways, and if you've been there long enough you should see it at times.



Basically, I'm stating facts about how Ridley is in the Metroid series. His roles, how he is, how he acts, etc. And with those facts, I am lead to believe that it's best for him to rep the series as a boss, not a character. And like you as well I said before, it's completely possible for them to make a wholly original, playable model of Ridley specifically for Smash. It's just that I think it's a better fit for him to be a boss character, rather than a playable one.

All I ask of you is to read this post. If you can call people in the Ridley thread rude. Then you can at least read it.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...the-detractors-paradise.324284/#post-14609370

 

[Kenith]

Basically, I'm stating facts about how Ridley is in the Metroid series. His roles, how he is, how he acts, etc. And with those facts, I am lead to believe that it's best for him to rep the series as a boss, not a character. And like you as well I said before, it's completely possible for them to make a wholly original, playable model of Ridley specifically for Smash. It's just that I think it's a better fit for him to be a boss character, rather than a playable one.

I think that is a fair assessment.

In Brawl, I think his role as not one, but two bosses was a fair representation of him, especially considering his trademark coming back from the dead trick coming into play with Meta Ridley.
The Subspace Emissary was a huge part of Brawl, so Ridley getting two boss roles in that mode seems fair.

However, considering his importance to Metroid, which seems to increase with every new Metroid game, the role he is implied to maintain in Smash 4, a stage boss for one stage on one version of the game, is not fairly representing his importance. And I believe Sakurai's team knows this. That's why, at the very least, if Ridley is indeed a boss, there is something else he does as well, such as being a boss enemy on Smash Run for 3DS.

As it stands, however, I think Ridley deserves the liberties taken to make him a playable character.

 

[KageJuin]

I disagree. They only get rude when the detractor was rude in the first place. It all depends on how you state your stance. Besides, they have a post to be linked to now.

Need I link your earlier posts raging at me for proving you wrong?

I think Ridley has a chance, regardless of anything that people may say.
We keep forgetting it's Sakurai.
the same man who said Miis weren't interesting for smash.
the same man who said he could not come up with a moveset for animal crossing guy, so left him out of brawl.

I think Ridley has a chance

 

[Kenith]

I, personally think Ridley is guaranteed at this point.
The fact that he has been indirectly called a boss, but not shown, raises some red flags for me.

Then again, what do I know. I expect them to add Lucina, however unlikely she may be.

 

[Sølid]

Sakurai never even went out of his way to clear confusion over Ridley like he does with AT's, Chrom, etc. I really do believe he is playable, and about time too.

 

[Sheddy]

Sakurai never even went out of his way to clear confusion over Ridley like he does with AT's, Chrom, etc. I really do believe he is playable, and about time too.

eh I still don't like the idea of him as a character and before ridely fans jump me no it's not because he's to big I just always seen him as a monster villain with no real personality like bowser and ganon and DDD have

 

[Niala]

Can't we all just agree that we're never all going to agree on Ridley? The topic has been belabored, and I highly doubt that anybody is willing to submit to a reversal on the subject. I would say something cliché, like, "we're simply flogging a dead horse," but at this point, the horse has been flogged to the bone and we're ravenously disputing over who gets to eat the bladder instead of partaking in the divine platters being served next door.

 

[Sheddy]

Can't we all just agree that we're never all going to agree on Ridley? The topic has been belabored, and I highly doubt that anybody is willing to submit to a reversal on the subject. I would say something cliché, like, "we're simply flogging a dead horse," but at this point, the horse has been flogged to the bone and we're ravenously disputing over who gets to eat the bladder instead of partaking in the divine platters being served next door.

I mean if he looks fun enough I'll give him a chance Little mac I was not liking the idea of till he was seen in action so ridley might be the same thing I'm just waiting for shulk to be confirmed now that my other character robin got in

 

[KageJuin]

It's the same thing every time.
heated fights between groups of fans, lacking any trace of a debate.
something gets revealed.
the losers shut up.
the winners rub in their victory.
rinse.
repeat.
ad infinitum.

 

[Sheddy]

It's the same thing every time.
heated fights between groups of fans, lacking any trace of a debate.
something gets revealed.
the losers shut up.
the winners rub in their victory.
rinse.
repeat.
ad infinitum.

I'm not against most characters their are some that I prefer more then others though if ridley gets confirmed and he looks fun great but I always viewed him as a boss more then anything

 

[epicgordan]

eh I still don't like the idea of him as a character and before ridely fans jump me no it's not because he's to big I just always seen him as a monster villain with no real personality like bowser and ganon and DDD have

Read the manga. It is cannon, and it shows that Ridley is not only sentient, but is capable of speech.

 

[Sheddy]

Read the manga. It is cannon, and it shows that Ridley is not only sentient, but is capable of speech.

to be fair the games are not some nintendo game I know as much on but I feel if ridley is in he'll play like Firebrand from Marvel Vs capcom 3

 

[Sølid]

eh I still don't like the idea of him as a character and before ridely fans jump me no it's not because he's to big I just always seen him as a monster villain with no real personality like bowser and ganon and DDD have

Ridley has as much personality as all three, if not more. Smash is about the All-Stars, not who has the most personality. And all 3 of the people you mentioned are bosses and Smash allowed you to finally "play" as the bosses, which was a wow factor for Bowser and Ganondorf's inclusion in Melee.

 

[Nat Perry]

Need I link your earlier posts raging at me for proving you wrong?

I think Ridley has a chance, regardless of anything that people may say.
We keep forgetting it's Sakurai.
the same man who said Miis weren't interesting for smash.
the same man who said he could not come up with a moveset for animal crossing guy, so left him out of brawl.

I think Ridley has a chance

He actually said that putting Miis in didn't feel right but given their rising prominence since he decided to put them in. And he said the Villager wasn't suitable for Smash and would lose its "innocent charm" I believe. And Sakurai said that making Ridley playable was impossible with laugh.

Eh. Idk.

So guys, Ghirahim!

Man he reps the villainous side of Zelda so well! Man he's so significant to the series as a whole! Man he got the whole incarnation of evil thing going for the series! Man he's got personality! Man, he's the man! Sakurai's the man! Man, Sakurai would be the man if he put our main main Ghirahim in the game!

Amirite?

 

[Sheddy]

He actually said that putting Miis in didn't feel right but given their rising prominence since he decided to put them in. And he said the Villager wasn't suitable for Smash and would lose its "innocent charm" I believe. And Sakurai said that making Ridley playable was impossible with laugh.

Eh. Idk.

So guys, Ghirahim!

Man he reps the villainous side of Zelda so well! Man he's so significant to the series as a whole! Man he got the whole incarnation of evil thing going for the series! Man he's got personality! Man, he's the man! Sakurai's the man! Man, Sakurai would be the man if he put our main main Ghirahim in the game!

Amirite?

I know it's not gonna happen but I would love Vatti to be the new rep to show off the handheld zelda games

 

[KageJuin]

He actually said that putting Miis in didn't feel right but given their rising prominence since he decided to put them in. And he said the Villager wasn't suitable for Smash and would lose its "innocent charm" I believe. And Sakurai said that making Ridley playable was impossible with laugh.

Eh. Idk.

So guys, Ghirahim!

Man he reps the villainous side of Zelda so well! Man he's so significant to the series as a whole! Man he got the whole incarnation of evil thing going for the series! Man he's got personality! Man, he's the man! Sakurai's the man! Man, Sakurai would be the man if he put our main main Ghirahim in the game!

Amirite?

factually speaking girahim does not represent the Zelda series at all.
maybe as a manipulated villain ala zant.
other than that he doesn't represent the series in the least.

Zelda has all the representatives bar pig ganon or young/toon representations.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I know it's not gonna happen but I would love Vatti to be the new rep to show off the handheld zelda games

I'd beg to differ.

 

[KageJuin]

I'd beg to differ.

You're awesome.
I used to be like you when it came to Vaati in Brawl.
man... dreams were crushed.
At least my Toon Link prediction came true.

I hope Sakurai sees the potential in Vaati instead of going with Girahim.
He would be a terrible representation of the series when compared to Vaati.

 

[Nat Perry]

factually speaking girahim does not represent the Zelda series at all.
maybe as a manipulated villain ala zant.
other than that he doesn't represent the series in the least.

Zelda has all the representatives bar pig ganon or young/toon representations.

Zelda has a ton of villains that aren't the reincarnation of Demise's hatred, why not throw in canonically the first one? I mean, we got the hero, the princess, the most famous disguise of the princess, the main villain of the franchise, the cartoon version of the hero...why not throw in another villain? Correct me if I'm wrong but many of the villains of the Zelda series are either resurrecting some form of Demise's hatred or working for them in some fashion. Ghirahim's the first canonically in the series to do that.

Really though, I'm fine with either Ghirahim or Vaati. I just haven't played any of the handheld Zeldas to fully appreciate Vaati at all, despite me knowing things.

 

[Zynux]

I do have to admit that from lurking around these forums, I've noticed that no one is thinking with the mentality of fighting games.

I suppose it has to with all these characters being licensed instead of original, but that still doesn't exactly excuse anything either.

That's because Smash Bros. is a party game!

Does the character add anything new to the game?
Does it add anything new that makes sense for the character to do?

That's all that really matters.

No. What really gets characters into Smash Bros. is completely indiscernible to us. It can be anything: Popularity, uniqueness potential, marketing, ease of design, padding the roster, iconicness, a mixture of all or none at all. And even if these "criteria" have appealed to certain characters, they won't apply to all of them.

Sakurai and his team will put in whomever he wants to put in. Sometimes, we can discern why he put in a certain character (he made it clear why he put in Lucina and Robin), but other times we can't.

"But Sakurai has said that uniqueness and what they bring to the table will get them into Smash!!!" Fair enough, but what is considered "unique" is completely subjective. For example, half of the characters that have been added to this roster so far I don't find "unique". But yes, uniqueness can be a factor for some characters, but it isn't the defining or only factor that will get characters into this game. Hell, it may not be a factor at all. Look at Lucina.

 

[Nat Perry]

Yeah, and if I was directing the game I wouldn't buy into this sigificance/prominence/popularity/relevace/moveset potential nonsense we all love to debate with. Hell, I'd put in whoever I wanted to and that would be that! Sure, I'd take requests into account, but for the most part I'd just put in whoever I wanted!

 

[Sheddy]

all I know is I support any choice sakuria makes he's not failed us yet and I don't see him failing anytime soon

 

[Kenith]

Ghirahim doesn't represent the Zelda series as a whole. I love his character and even I think that's ludicrous.
He does, however, represent Skyward Sword, and that is important.

 

[Nat Perry]

Ghirahim doesn't represent the Zelda series as a whole. I love his character and even I think that's ludicrous.
He does, however, represent Skyward Sword, and that is important.

And Skyward Sword is canonically the first in the series so that helps a crapton.