Character Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

Well, I'm more trying to understand why so many people are against Ghirahim, but for Vaati.

I do think recency is a factor this time around. Apart from the high-class third parties, the other newcomers are based off of recent games.

Recency is indeed a big factor, but it doesn't mean it applies to all newcomers.

 

[Morbi]

If between Ghirahim and Vaati, I'm gonna say Ghirahim has the upper-hand.

That is not really saying much; however. I would assert that Beedle and Tingle as a tag-team in the same vein as Ferra/Torr from Mortal Kombat X is more likely than Vaati.

Seriously though, Ghirahim and Impa are the choices that I believe to be the most plausible.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Recency is indeed a big factor, but it doesn't mean it applies to all newcomers.

Oh, I'm sure. There will most likely be some revived characters. But I do have a feeling it will be playing a bigger factor in the selection of newcomers.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Vaati is never getting added, guys. Barring a revival.

 

[toobladooblasdfghtkdjdhfngj]

Instead of SALES and IMPORTANCE, lets talk about what niche they could fill on the roster gameplaywise. Because that's what matters.

I do have to admit that from lurking around these forums, I've noticed that no one is thinking with the mentality of fighting games.

I suppose it has to with all these characters being licensed instead of original, but that still doesn't exactly excuse anything either.

 

[Kenith]

Nah, uniqueness and popularity alone won't have a newcomer get in, characters with only uniqueness and popularity going for them are Chibi and Isaac.
He can't possibly promote Skyward Sword since they are now focusing on the Wii U and its sets of games now.

Really? They're focusing their character choices on Wii U games? No, the newcomers being chosen have both uniqueness and popularity going for them, but they also cone from recent successes in Nintendo's library.

Super Mario Galaxy, Fire Emblem: Awakening, Punch-Out, Kid Icarus Uprising, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Metroid: Other M.

These are all great titles that have received a load of content representing it, including characters.

Just like Brawl's characters are largely based on GameCube games, like Olimar for Pikmin, Ike for Path of Radiance, Snake for MGS3, and so on, SSB4's character choices are influenced by Wii games.

 

[Scamper52596]

Vaati is never getting added, guys. Barring a revival.

You could have let the Vaati fans down a little more easily...

 

[ElPanandero]

I agree. I mentioned last night that people seem to only get behind their favorites when it comes to Zelda character debates.
I think retros are cool. We may get a new one, but it's still entirely possible that Little Mac, Pacman, or Megaman count. I'm not exactly too sure on what Sakurai is thinking when it comes to retro characters.

Yea I kind of have the vibe that Mac counts, but since Punch out got revived I have hope, and I don't even know where 3rd parties sit. I've heard Takamaru thrown around, who I'm not fond of, I have slim hopes for Mach Rider or Balloon Fighter, the 8-bit mario sounds weird but interesting and there's always Duck Hunt Dog. Who knows, I'm just gonna sit here and pray for Balloon or Mach

 

[Weeman]

I agree.

Viewing the series as a whole Impa and Vaati make the most sense.
Girahim is a one-off villain like Zant, Aghanim or many other before him.
Impa is a Sheikah, who are represented by Sheik, so if we pick a character based on representation and uniqueness it would be Vaati.

In light of the Robin reveal, I would like to say Vaati, but that would also contradict the trophy theory. In which case it would be Girahim.

Vaati is as much of a one off Villain as the others, his other appearances after Minish Cap are pretty much useless, Four Sword adventures he does nothing but be there, adventures de does nothing but be there and get controlled by Ganon. And in the end he does nothing of importance for the timeline but get killed by Link, just like Zant and all the others.

 

[Morbi]

Instead of SALES and IMPORTANCE, lets talk about what niche they could fill on the roster gameplaywise. Because that's what matters.

That logic is not relevant to Smash speculation as I quite clearly indicated that game-play related choices are over-looked for popular or prominent characters with pertinence to their series. Mortal Kombat X decided to make original characters for their newest installment to avoid arguing "SALES and IMPORTANCE." I doubt anyone would argue that Tingle impaling Beedle with a rupee while riding on his shoulders is a worse idea than Toon Zelda. I do not have an entire move-set, but I figure his grabs could involve throwing the enemies into their "Giant's Wallet." His up-smash would be the animation for "koo-loo limpah" while his side-smash would be "Ohhhhh" in the same vein as Wii Fit Trainer's.

The inherent problem? Beedle and Tingle are not "important" enough. And they never do this in any of their games, games that did not sell well... yet.

 

[KageJuin]

Instead of SALES and IMPORTANCE, lets talk about what niche they could fill on the roster gameplaywise. Because that's what matters.

Because Lucina was such a necessary character. Man. Her popularity or the sales of Awakening had nothing to do with her getting a character slot.

Seriously.. I don't know if Zelda has space for a newcomer when I think about it.
It would be better to leave that position for some other series altogether.
I still think mewtwo has a very high chance of returning

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, it didn't.

Sakurai applying different properties to the sword of Marth's Lucina alt was what ended up getting her a character slot later in development.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

IMO, Tingle is important enough to warrant inclusion, but he's already been disconfirmed, so.

It's Ghirahim vs Impa now.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Why don't you think Ghirahim has a shot? Just curious. Like, I understand the affinity for Vaati, but I think Ghirahim has some merits to get him in.

I actually do think he has a good shot too. I just find him a tad under Impa and Vaati. If we have a SS character, I think Impa's slightly in the lead just because of how easy one could make her (depending on if she's a clone or not) and the fact that's she's one of the mainest characters in the franchise, but Ghirahim could make it though, I'm definitely not counting him out.

Vaati is never getting added, guys. Barring a revival.

You just brought me back to some good times back when I first joined this forum, and everybody said Vaati had no chance. Good times they were, but I'm glad it's over.

 

[Weeman]

It seems to me that so much people just say Ghirahim has no chance for being a "one off villain", yet apparently Vaati cannot be categorized in that group.

 

[Kenith]

Instead of SALES and IMPORTANCE, lets talk about what niche they could fill on the roster gameplaywise. Because that's what matters.

Why do these things have to be mutually exclusive?

Can't these all be factors when considering a character?

 

[queenrosetta]

IMO, Tingle is important enough to warrant inclusion, but he's already been disconfirmed, so.

It's Ghirahim vs Impa now.

I think a great trailer would be everyone fighting and they use an assist trophy and tingle pops out and goes "I'm tired of assisting let's battle!"

Now that would be a surprise reveal!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

That logic is not relevant to Smash speculation as I quite clearly indicated that game-play related choices are over-looked for popular or prominent characters with pertinence to their series. Mortal Kombat X decided to make original characters for their newest installment to avoid arguing "SALES and IMPORTANCE." I doubt anyone would argue that Tingle impaling Beedle with a rupee while riding on his shoulders is a worse idea than Toon Zelda. I do not have an entire move-set, but I figure his grabs could involve throwing the enemies into their "Giant's Wallet." His up-smash would be the animation for "koo-loo limpah" while his side-smash would be "Ohhhhh" in the same vein as Wii Fit Trainer's.

The inherent problem? Beedle and Tingle are not "important" enough. And they never do this in any of their games, games that did not sell well... yet.

Because Lucina was such a necessary character. Man. Her popularity or the sales of Awakening had nothing to do with her getting a character slot.

Seriously.. I don't know if Zelda has space for a newcomer when I think about it.
It would be better to leave that position for some other series altogether.
I still think mewtwo has a very high chance of returning

Using that logic, Rosalina, Greninja, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer probably wouldn't be picked.

Sales? Ike was the lord in the worst selling FE game.

You can't JUST consider popularity. This is a fighting game. If unique gameplay wasn't an important part, then why was Chrom passed over? It's because Robin has a better gameplay option.

It comes down to gameplay. I don't want to play as someone whose game sold well. I want to play as somebody who can add to the roster.

 

[Morbi]

Using that logic, Rosalina, Greninja, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer probably wouldn't be picked.

Sales? Ike was the lord in the worst selling FE game.

You can't JUST consider popularity. This is a fighting game. If unique gameplay wasn't an important part, then why was Chrom passed over? It's because Robin has a better gameplay option.

It comes down to gameplay. I don't want to play as someone whose game sold well. I want to play as somebody who can add to the roster.

Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that you did not actually read my post?

Why do these things have to be mutually exclusive?

Can't these all be factors when considering a character?

Of course, importance and "sales" will always be an aspect of selection. To what extent? It probably depends on several different factors that are not entirely discernible to us.

 

[KageJuin]

It seems to me that so much people just say Ghirahim has no chance for being a "one off villain", yet apparently Vaati cannot be categorized in that group.

because he's not. He has appeared in three games and was an important force in the foursword chronicles.
Impa has been important in many different games.
Girahim is... just in Skyward Sword with even less Importance than Fi.

I think it's a shame because I wanted him to play a bigger role, but we can't have it all, can we.

Looking at Greninja, Rosalina, Mii Fighter, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin and Lucina, it means that not just popularity matters.
Where is Chrom? Sothe? Micaiah?

I have a feeling we will see more emphasis on uniqueness this time around, especially since Sakurai mentioned in one of his earliest interviews: simply adding more characters is not enough.

I agree with his statement. I see now that he meant adding unique characters.

This puts Vaati and even Yuga above Impa and Girahim

 

[TumblrFamous]

I actually do think he has a good shot too. I just find him a tad under Impa and Vaati. If we have a SS character, I think Impa's slightly in the lead just because of how easy one could make her (depending on if she's a clone or not) and the fact that's she's one of the mainest characters in the franchise, but Ghirahim could make it though, I'm definitely not counting him out.

I like when I can have a discussion when I'm not pulling hairs out of my head.

 

[domokl]

because he's not. He has appeared in three games and was an important force in the foursword chronicles.
Impa has been important in many different games.
Girahim is... just in Skyward Sword with even less Importance than Fi.

I think it's a shame because I wanted him to play a bigger role, but we can't have it all, can we.

Looking at Greninja, Rosalina, Mii Fighter, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin and Lucina, it means that not just popularity matters.
Where is Chrom? Sothe? Micaiah?

I have a feeling we will see more emphasis on uniqueness this time around, especially since Sakurai mentioned in one of his earliest interviews: simply adding more characters is not enough.

I agree with his statement. I see now that he meant adding unique characters.

This puts Vaati and even Yuga above Impa and Girahim

you are implying that girahim and impa cant be unique.

 

[Nat Perry]

I really just hope everyone from Brawl plus Mewtwo minus Snake, Squirtle, and Ivysaur come back.

Using that logic, Rosalina, Greninja, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer probably wouldn't be picked.

Sales? Ike was the lord in the worst selling FE game.

You can't JUST consider popularity. This is a fighting game. If unique gameplay wasn't an important part, then why was Chrom passed over? It's because Robin has a better gameplay option.

It comes down to gameplay. I don't want to play as someone whose game sold well. I want to play as somebody who can add to the roster.

Lol, someone's game who sold well can in fact add to the roster if they're done right.

 

[Weeman]

because he's not. He has appeared in three games and was an important force in the foursword chronicles.
Impa has been important in many different games.
Girahim is... just in Skyward Sword with even less Importance than Fi.

I think it's a shame because I wanted him to play a bigger role, but we can't have it all, can we.

Looking at Greninja, Mii Fighter, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin and Lucina, it means that not just popularity matters.
Where is Chrom? Sothe? Micaiah?

I have a feeling we will see more emphasis on uniqueness this time around, especially since Sakurai mentioned in one of his earliest interviews: simply adding more characters is not enough.

I agree with his statement. I see now that he meant adding unique characters.

But my point is that he essentially is, he appeared in three games, but was only important in one, he's just as unlikely to come back as Malladus, Zant, Nightmare and dare i even say Ghirahim, he doesn't take an important role in the lore as Ganon does, he's essentially a one-off character by those standards, and thus wouldn't really take priority over the others. To clarify my point, imagine if Ghirahim appeared in two more games but was just a guy tossed for one fight in the game, not really contributing anything to the story or his character and pretty much there just to block your way, does that mean he would suddenly become really important? sure he wouldn't be a "one off" anymore but he wouldn't be any more important that he is now.

 

[Maxilian]

I think a great trailer would be everyone fighting and they use an assist trophy and tingle pops out and goes "I'm tired of assisting let's battle!"

Now that would be a surprise reveal!

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAA


NO!

 

[KageJuin]

you are implying that girahim and impa cant be unique.

Just implying that Vaati and Yuga have more to work with that could be unique than either Girahim or Impa.
Not quite the same. Similar. I understand the confusion.

 

[toobladooblasdfghtkdjdhfngj]

This is all new territory for me, considering that other places I've been to don't rely on these sales talk and what not. Even something like the varies Capcom crossover fighting games get less talk about sales and more so wanting specific characters.

 

[Kenith]

I like when I can have a discussion when I'm not pulling hairs out of my head.

Yeah, at this point the discussion basically comes down to, "I don't think that character is important enough for Smash."

I'm not sure what to say, honestly.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that you did not actually read my post?


Of course, importance and "sales" will always be an aspect of selection. To what extent? It probably depends on several different factors that are not entirely discernible to us.

Oh I did, and basically said why it's not just about popularity.

Greninja? Hardly any popularity. Wii Fit Trainer? Hardly any. Robin? Some, but nothing remarkable. Rosalina? Popular, but not a front runner for Smash.

The most popular choices we've gotten thus far are Mega Man, Palutena and Little Mac. That's basically it. Unique gameplay has pretty much brought the rest into the roster.

 

[Nat Perry]

Greninja had popularity brah.

Studies have found widespread use of Greninja among Pokemon players.

 

[domokl]

Oh I did, and basically said why it's not just about popularity.

Greninja? Hardly any popularity. Wii Fit Trainer? Hardly any. Robin? Some, but nothing remarkable. Rosalina? Popular, but not a front runner for Smash.

The most popular choices we've gotten thus far are Mega Man, Palutena and Little Mac. That's basically it. Unique gameplay has pretty much brought the rest into the roster.

lucina is neithr of your points but still in.

 

[Morbi]

Oh I did, and basically said why it's not just about popularity.

Greninja? Hardly any popularity. Wii Fit Trainer? Hardly any. Robin? Some, but nothing remarkable. Rosalina? Popular, but not a front runner for Smash.

The most popular choices we've gotten thus far are Mega Man, Palutena and Little Mac. That's basically it. Unique gameplay has pretty much brought the rest into the roster.

Greninja (since when was the predominant Gen 6 starter Pokemon unpopular though?), Wii Fit Trainer, and Robin have (relative) sales behind them!

So you would seriously consider Beedle and Tingle as a tag-team to be a popular addition?

 

[KageJuin]

Yuga as a ganondorf Alt? what do you say?

 

[TumblrFamous]

What Scoliosis was saying was they were not popular choices for SMASH. (Although I disagree with Robin)

Popular Characters =/= Popular Character Choices

And Lucina was at first planned as a Marth alt, and was most likely (assuming) created as an individual slot at the last minute. So trying to use that to counter his claim is quite faulty.

 

[Espio264]

Let's consider the facts and weigh the options. Sakurai's gone girl crazy as of late. Would he choose:

- semi-important, recurring girl character or

- less than semi-important, less than recurring character that dresses like a girl.

Screw 'em both. Bring back Mewtwo.



I have warmed up to Impa though. Hopefully if she's been considered, Sakurai looked at her Warriors concept art like he did for Greninja. That design is badass and fits better with Link and Zelda's Twilight look.

 

[Silverjay323]

Oh I did, and basically said why it's not just about popularity.

Greninja? Hardly any popularity. Wii Fit Trainer? Hardly any. Robin? Some, but nothing remarkable. Rosalina? Popular, but not a front runner for Smash.

The most popular choices we've gotten thus far are Mega Man, Palutena and Little Mac. That's basically it. Unique gameplay has pretty much brought the rest into the roster.

Competitively, Greninja is very popular in the ou metagame, and you surprisingly left out Pac. :\

 

[~Krystal~]

Yuga as a ganondorf Alt? what do you say?

I'm having problems visualizing that. Could be my limited imagination.

 

[Donalp15]

Greninja is popular in the pokemon games, I don't think he had much love as a potential smash candidate.
Yuga and Ganondorf have different builds, they would have to beef up Yuga for it to work.

 

[Morbi]

I'm having problems visualizing that. Could be my limited imagination.

I thought that Yuga's design was reminiscent of Ganondorf; or a Gerudo, I suppose. So it is not difficult for me to visualize it.

What Scoliosis was saying was they were not popular choices for SMASH. (Although I disagree with Robin)

Popular Characters =/= Popular Character Choices

And Lucina was at first planned as a Marth alt, and was most likely (assuming) created as an individual slot at the last minute. So trying to use that to counter his claim is quite faulty.

Ah, I see. It is so easy to misconstrue one's statements...

Yeah, at this point the discussion basically comes down to, "I don't think that character is important enough for Smash."

I'm not sure what to say, honestly.

Fallacious arbitrary assertions?

 

[yahooda]

Yuga as a ganondorf Alt? what do you say?

Isn't Yuga a little too... not Ganondorf?