Character Discussion Thread

[Con0rrrr]

It hasn't sold better than recent ones... there were comparisons. Since reading isn't your strong suit, here's the table:

2004 GBA The Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap 1.42
2006 Wii / GC The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Wii: 6.8
GC: 1.59
Total: 8.39
2007 DS The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass 4.96
2007 Wii Link's Crossbow Training 4.8
2009 DS The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks
3.19

2011 3DS The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D 3.1
2011 DS The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Anniversary Edition
2011 Wii The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword 3.69
2013 WiiU The Legend of Zelda Wind Waker HD 1.22
2013 3DS The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds 2.41


Maybe it will defeat Minish Cap? The return to a more classic game: ALbW sold double the amount without breaking a sweat and being on the market for a shorter period of time.

Extrapolate where those numbers are going for me. :D

Hilda and Ravio confirmed!

/mikedrop

Hey, first of all, don't be a jackass. I was calling you out because you were acting like you ran the place. You don't. If sales numbers indicate anything, then Palutena wouldn't be in the game.

Also, if you didn't notice. ALbW wasn't on your chart. Who can't read now?

ALbW was great, your right. But that is cartoony. It's not realistic. You claimed the realistic games were selling better, which is not the case as you just kindly pointed out.

The graphics and art style don't mean **** in a game so long as it looks nice and plays great. Why is Skyward Sword not as good? The art style was not a good fit and the gameplay was not what anyone wanted.

Wind Waker, a cartoony game, is praised for being one of the best in the series.

If you're someone claiming a game is bad because of it's graphical decisions, then no one here should have reason to listen to your opinions. Especially when you act like a **** to those who disagree.

 

[~Krystal~]

A Link Between Worlds got some love and that makes me happy. It really is a good game, but then it's modeled after Link to the Past, so that's to be expected. With the 3DS games getting as much attention as they are now, maybe Yuga will be the curve ball for our next Zelda character. FE Awakening was half as successful as the LTTP sequel, yet saw 2 characters be playable.

 

[toobladooblasdfghtkdjdhfngj]

I desperately want Ganondorf to see a redesign of any type at this point. He's been sticking with the same Falcon-inspired moves for 2 games now.

There are problems with Ganon, but being a clone isn't the problem. It's being unable to use his attributes to the fullest extent, essentially a close ranged powerhouse, due to a combination of his slow and heavy attacks and movement making have practically no safe options. Which is why I don't think a complete overhaul won't necessarily solve everything, instead what would be needed is changes that fixes the problems Ganon has.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Lol i dont give a damn how zelda has sold recently, if i can enjoy it and they bring new things to the formula thats all that matters. I would never want it to remain with one stagnant art style, the wiiu demo from before never interested me because it was just TP from every conceivable angle once again only with a visual upgrade. While ive never been a huge fan of wind waker, the game still was fantastic, although im over that games art style as well so more change is always good.

But either way none of this matters to smash bros in the least, zelda stuff will be represented with whats come since brawl and in a few other corners of the series. And no amount of sales figures will make an ounce of difference.

Sales? lol

Spoiler

 

[TumblrFamous]

If between Ghirahim and Vaati, I'm gonna say Ghirahim has the upper-hand.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Lol i dont give a damn how zelda has sold recently, if i can enjoy it and they bring new things to the formula thats all that matters. I would never want it to remain with one stagnant art style, the wiiu demo from before never interested me because it was just TP from every concivable angle once again only with a visual upgrade. While ive never been a huge fan of wind waker, the game still was fantastic, although im over that games art style as well so more change is always good.

But either way none of this matters to smash bros in the least, zelda stuff will be represented with whats come since brawl. And no amount of sales figures will make an ounce of difference.

You're making me think of a Toon styled Twilight Princess sequel now. Imagine all the "Toon Midna for SSB5/6/whatever Smash it is!"

 

[Link Sharingan]

since Fire Emblem got 4 characters what are the chance Donkey Kong get both Dixie Kong and King K.Rool.

 

[TumblrFamous]

since Fire Emblem got 5 characters what are the chance Donkey Kong get both

...Wait, didn't they get 4?

 

[Starcutter]

since Fire Emblem got 5 characters what are the chance Donkey Kong get both

Chrom isn't payable.

That said 2 more DK characters is possible

 

[KageJuin]

Hey, first of all, don't be a *******. I was calling you out because you were acting like you ran the place. You don't. If sales numbers indicate anything, then Palutena wouldn't be in the game.

Also, if you didn't notice. ALbW wasn't on your chart. Who can't read now?

ALbW was great, your right. But that is cartoony. It's not realistic. You claimed the realistic games were selling better, which is not the case as you just kindly pointed out.

The graphics and art style don't mean **** in a game so long as it looks nice and plays great. Why is Skyward Sword not as good? The art style was not a good fit and the gameplay was not what anyone wanted.

Wind Waker, a cartoony game, is praised for being one of the best in the series.

If you're someone claiming a game is bad because of it's graphical decisions, then no one here should have reason to listen to your opinions. Especially when you act like a **** to those who disagree.

hm. seem to have struck a nerve.
Still hoping for some ALbW representation rather than SS
Yuga could be a cool curveball indeed

 

[TumblrFamous]

hm. seem to have struck a nerve.
Still hoping for some ALbW representation rather than SS
Yuga could be a cool curveball indeed

Ghirahim would be over Yuga in a heartbeat.

 

[Link Sharingan]

...Wait, didn't they get 4?

i accidentally posted the post wend it was not ready i edited it.

 

[Deleted member]

You're making me think of a Toon styled Twilight Princess sequel now. Imagine all the "Toon Midna for SSB5/6/whatever Smash it is!"

....how would a Toon Midna even work?

 

[Con0rrrr]

hm. seem to have struck a nerve.
Still hoping for some ALbW representation rather than SS
Yuga could be a cool curveball indeed

Yeah, you did. Because you were shutting down people's opinions, implying I was an idiot (which turned out to work against you) and tried to explain your point with only subjective reasoning.

I don't care who the Zelda rep is. It's jsut not okay for you to be hating on other people's opinions and calling yours superior

 

[BluePikmin11]

Guys, stop disguising as GoldenYuiitusin for the last time, now Morbid is doing it.

 

[SmashChu]

To be fair, the models for Popo and Nana are in a single file. This also applies to Olimar's Pikmin, so perhaps Rosalina's model and the Luma's model are in a single file as well.

No they aren't. They are separate files. Pikmin are in Olimar's file. But Pikmin don't separate attacks. The most complex thing they do is try to get back to Olimar and pick up items.

 

[KageJuin]

Yeah, you did. Because you were shutting down people's opinions, implying I was an idiot (which turned out to work against you) and tried to explain your point with only subjective reasoning.

I don't care who the Zelda rep is. It's jsut not okay for you to be hating on other people's opinions and calling yours superior

I wasn't hating. I just stated that a grand majority of Zelda fans feel a certain way. You said that's not true.
I presented you with proof.

period.

You may like whatever you like.
It won't change the simple fact that the general public is not fond of what you like.
I love Fire Emblem. That series is not popular with most people. Pokemon is what they like.
I don't cry about it. I just accept that I am in the minority there.

There really is a reason why TP was copying OoT and why LoZ representatives will take on those forms over any other.

 

[Silverjay323]

The main difference between FE and Mother is that Fire Emblem is way more succesful, way more popular and is international, Mother has 3 games and 1 of them never left Japan, Lucina was originally planned to be a costume and she was lucky to get her own spot, If series like F-ZERO, Metroid, DK, Kid Icarus can't afford 3 then I don't see why Mother can suddenly afford 3

Smash representation has always been varied. Sure the common consensus is that the more popular series should receive more reps, but some series, like Metroid, don't have more than 2-3 important characters to contribute. Another factor to consider is the importance of said characters. Sure, Dixie and Samurai Goroh are prominent in their respective series, but definitely not comparable to Ninten, the protagonist of original Mother. Simply put, protags > additional supporting characters. The fact that the franchise only has 3 games only make these characters more important and vital. Japanese exclusivity is also a non-factor as we've seen with Marth, whose inclusion in smash is partly responsible for the series' increased popularity in the west.

Let's make sure Ness and Lucas return before we get another character though.

Just my personal opinion. If we can have 3 fe rep + clone, there is absolutely NO reason for either of them to go.

 

[~Krystal~]

There are problems with Ganon, but being a clone isn't the problem. It's being unable to use his attributes to the fullest extent, essentially a close ranged powerhouse, due to a combination of his slow and heavy attacks and movement making have practically no safe options. Which is why I don't think a complete overhaul won't necessarily solve everything, instead what would be needed is changes that fixes the problems Ganon has.

I want him get a revamp for the sake of diversity, because that's something I value... As irrational as it may seem. You want to keep what he has, yet argue for greater viability? Fine by me. If anything, I'm with you guys, because if Ganondorf remains unchanged conceptually, at the very least I would like to see him improved.

 

[Con0rrrr]

I wasn't hating. I just stated that a grand majority of Zelda fans feel a certain way. You said that's not true.
I presented you with proof.

period.

You may like whatever you like.
It won't change the simple fact that the general public is not fond of what you like.
I love Fire Emblem. That series is not popular with most people. Pokemon is what they like.
I don't cry about it. I just accept that I am in the minority there.

There really is a reason why TP was copying OoT and why LoZ representatives will take on those forms over any other.

Sales don't indicate what people like. They indicate what was marketed and hyped more than the rest. How many times has OoT been re-released? Remakes, Virtual Console, etc. Twilight Princess was a hype game that was a letdown gameplay wise.

A "Zelda Fan" isn't going to judge the game on it's art style. Maybe an idiot will. Not a true Zelda fan.

"Proof." Lol.

You presented nothing, let's analyze what you said

Wii U is the gamecube all over again.... Zelda is withering away slowly as Aonuma poisons the most epic game series that ever existed, making it into a cartoon with dolls, where Link is anything but a badass.

Literally an opinion. One, that I can say without reason, is AN AWFUL, and I mean AWFUL one. How the hell. Please Please tell me. HOW THE HELL you can say that Zelda U is gonna suck BASED ON A CGI TRAILER SHOWING THE ART STYLE? I mean are you stupid?

You might see some kind of hint as to what Zelda fans actually like, rather than forum dwellers.

I'm not even going to explain how awful the logic is of sales = game's enjoyment.

click the link. barely 1 mil.
subpar.

Yes. Because a game is bad because it sold bad. Okay.

Since reading isn't your strong suit, here's the table:

Says the one who didn't read their own table?

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Smash representation has always been varied. Sure the common consensus is that the more popular series should receive more reps, but some series, like Metroid, don't have more than 2-3 important characters to contribute. Another factor to consider is the importance of said characters. Sure, Dixie and Samurai Goroh are prominent in their respective series definitely not comparable to Ninten, the protagonist of original Mother. Simply put, protags > additional supporting characters. The fact that the franchise only has 3 games only make these characters more important and vital. Japanese exclusivity is also a non-factor as we've seen with Marth, whose inclusion in smash is partly responsible for the series' increased popularity in the west.

Just my personal opinion. If we can have 3 fe rep + clone, there is absolutely NO reason for either of them to go.

Are you saying that Ninten is more important than Dixie or Goroh? I don't know goroh but Dixie was the main protagonist of the last game of the succesful DK Country series, which sold way better than Mother did by the way, Ninten is not important to the Nintendo story, he is obscure and few people know of the existance of that game, yeah, while Fire Emblem made his debut on America thanks to smash bros, Mother 3 is still unable to do it and the first game is still considered obscure, there is no reason to add another mother character, considering that getting 2 was already pushing it

 

[TumblrFamous]

Sales don't indicate what people like. They indicate what was marketed and hyped more than the rest. How many times has OoT been re-released? Remakes, Virtual Console, etc. Twilight Princess was a hype game that was a letdown gameplay wise.

A "Zelda Fan" isn't going to judge the game on it's art style. Maybe an idiot will. Not a true Zelda fan.

"Proof." Lol.

You presented nothing, let's analyze what you said



Literally an opinion. One, that I can say without reason, is AN AWFUL, and I mean AWFUL one. How the hell. Please Please tell me. HOW THE HELL you can say that Zelda U is gonna suck BASED ON A CGI TRAILER SHOWING THE ART STYLE? I mean are you stupid?



I'm not even going to explain how awful the logic is of sales = game's enjoyment.



Yes. Because a game is bad because it sold bad. Okay.



Says the one who didn't read their own table?

Not the topic at all, I just want to say Wind Waker is one of the more critically acclaimed Zelda games, one of the top. It was a shock to see cel-shading, but it's a pretty dark Zelda game beside the cel-shading. As I said, I think yesterday, perception is not reality. One person's opinion does not dictate the future of a highly popular franchise.

ANYWAY, I do think if we get a Zelda newcomer, we will get Ghirahim. My prediction. If we get a Zelda newcomer, anyway.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I think if we get a Zelda newcomer (which I find extremely likely) it's a toss-up between Vaati (just wouldn't be me if I didn't think that) and Impa.

 

[toobladooblasdfghtkdjdhfngj]

I want him get a revamp for the sake of diversity, because that's something I value... As irrational as it may seem. You want to keep what he has, yet argue for greater viability? Fine by me. If anything, I'm with you guys, because if Ganondorf remains unchanged conceptually, at the very least I would like to see him improved.

It's basically having the right adjustments, really.

It reminds me of Bang. In Blazblue: Calamity Trigger he was ranked bottom tier due to his playstyle of rushdown and mix-ups being limited due to varies flaws like slow speed and weak priority preventing Bang from being effective. Come Blazblue: Continuum Shift, and he became one of the best characters due to his flaws being fixed and him gaining some new tools, with varies games later on adjusting him to be more fair.

For the record, as of Blazblue: Chronophantasma, he's now 16th on the tier list out of 26, but it's not that bad since the game is at least balanced enough where you're not discouraged from picking anything but high tier.

 

[KageJuin]

Not the topic at all, I just want to say Wind Waker is one of the more critically acclaimed Zelda games, one of the top. It was a shock to see cel-shading, but it's a pretty dark Zelda game beside the cel-shading. As I said, I think yesterday, perception is not reality. One person's opinion does not dictate the future of a highly popular franchise.

ANYWAY, I do think if we get a Zelda newcomer, we will get Ghirahim. My prediction. If we get a Zelda newcomer, anyway.

I think one person's opinion does dictate that future. Eiji Aonuma.
Either way. As critically acclaimed as it was, it sure got a mountain of backlash. So much so that it pretty much scared them into making TP.

I guess Girahim makes a decent chance for being out there. I just wish I knew what Sakurai's opinion was.
At least we know he likes Bayonetta 2....
Bayonetta in smash?

 

[TumblrFamous]

I think if we get a Zelda newcomer (which I find extremely likely) it's a toss-up between Vaati (just wouldn't be me if I didn't think that) and Impa.

Why don't you think Ghirahim has a shot? Just curious. Like, I understand the affinity for Vaati, but I think Ghirahim has some merits to get him in.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Why don't you think Ghirahim has a shot? Just curious. Like, I understand the affinity for Vaati, but I think Ghirahim has some merits to get him in.

Tell me the merits aside from uniqueness and popularity.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrom isn't payable.

Wait, I can't pay my money to Chrom? Well...thats a shame.

Anyhoo, still waiting for a Wario reveal...

I'm still under the belief he may be unlockable instead of being a starter.

 

[Kenith]

Tell me the merits aside from uniqueness and popularity.

Recency. He promotes Skyward Sword, a game Nintendo is quite proud of.
Also, is uniqueness and popularity not good enough for you?

 

[TumblrFamous]

I think one person's opinion does dictate that future. Eiji Aonuma.
Either way. As critically acclaimed as it was, it sure got a mountain of backlash. So much so that it pretty much scared them into making TP.

You fail to point out that WW had more sales than Majora's Mask. So, in that logic, Majora's Mask did so terribly for sales it scared them into making Wind Waker. It got INITIAL backlash. I was one of them! I shamed them for the childish artstyle. But I played it and it's tied with TP as my favorite Zelda game. And you're assuming that just because the artstyle for the Wii U Zelda game does not fit your expectations, it ultimately means the game will be terrible and awful for sales. It's an open world game now, for God's sake! The likes of Skyrim or Xenoblade!

So I REALLY don't understand that why the ARTSTYLE of a game would dictate that. And I assume your loathing for Ghirahim comes from the hatred you have for SS's artstyle.

Ghirahim has merits. Popular, still relevant, he's getting up there.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Recency. He promotes Skyward Sword, a game Nintendo is quite proud of.
Also, is uniqueness and popularity not good enough for you?

Nah, uniqueness and popularity alone won't have a newcomer get in, characters with only uniqueness and popularity going for them are Chibi and Isaac.
He can't possibly promote Skyward Sword since they are now focusing on the Wii U and its sets of games now.

 

[Zhadgon]

I will say this again, Classic Ganon or nothing at all from Zelda.

.n_n.

 

[ElPanandero]

This zelda topic is getting silly. There aren't any great possibilities for newcomers, and a handful of subpar ones:

Ghiriam is the most recent villain (except this yuga fellow? maybe? I'm confised on that)
Vaati is a reoccuring villain with more appearences
Impa has a straneg cult following, has the most apparences technically, but is fairly minor
Toon Zelda is a Toon version of Zelda..so that one's pretty obvious.

I like Impa. But that's me. We all have our opinion and they're all equally valid, and the only thing that seems to make people think so and so is more liekly is that it happens to be the one they support. Let's talk about anything else. Like retros, who likes retors?

EDIT: @ Zhadgon is right. Classic Ganon actually is the only choice. Sigh

 

[Scamper52596]

Nah, uniqueness and popularity alone won't have a newcomer get in, characters with only uniqueness and popularity going for them are Chibi and Isaac.
He can't possibly promote Skyward Sword since they are now focusing on the Wii U and its sets of games now.

I completely agree. I feel that Nintendo would rather promote Wind Waker HD at this point considering it's still new and fresh, and you can get it on the same console as Smash 4.

 

[Silverjay323]

Are you saying that Ninten is more important than Dixie or Goroh? I don't know goroh but Dixie was the main protagonist of the last game of the succesful DK Country series, which sold way better than Mother did by the way, Ninten is not important to the Nintendo story, he is obscure and few people know of the existance of that game, yeah, while Fire Emblem made his debut on America thanks to smash bros, Mother 3 is still unable to do it and the first game is still considered obscure, there is no reason to add another mother character, considering that getting 2 was already pushing it

To his franchise yes, Ninten has a more prominent role than Goroh and Dixie do in theirs (Dixie arguably since Diddy was more so the main character than she was in DKC 2) Obscurity has never been a valid point against a character (See R.O.B, G&W, and WFT) To put ot bluntly there's not much more of a "reason" to add another Mother character than WFT, Lucina, Dixie, the works. While I agree it isn't the most probable, but certainly not as left field as you claimed it to be. Sales and localization obviously don't matter to Sakurai, and iirc, Marth is still retaining a Japanese VA despite making appearances in western releases.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Recency. He promotes Skyward Sword, a game Nintendo is quite proud of.
Also, is uniqueness and popularity not good enough for you?

Haha, that's what I was gonna say.

And for more support. Ghirahim plays the biggest antagonist role in nearly any Zelda game. Most Zelda villians you only encounter 1-2 times throughout the whole game. In Skyward Sword, Ghirahim interacts with Link so much that you see he is one of the best written characters in the series.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Instead of SALES and IMPORTANCE, lets talk about what niche they could fill on the roster gameplaywise. Because that's what matters.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Nah, uniqueness and popularity alone won't have a newcomer get in, characters with only uniqueness and popularity going for them are Chibi and Isaac.
He can't possibly promote Skyward Sword since they are now focusing on the Wii U and its sets of games now.

Well, I'm more trying to understand why so many people are against Ghirahim, but for Vaati.

I do think recency is a factor this time around. Apart from the high-class third parties, the other newcomers are based off of recent games.

 

[Scamper52596]

This zelda topic is getting silly. There aren't any great possibilities for newcomers, and a handful of subpar ones:

Ghiriam is the most recent villain (except this yuga fellow? maybe? I'm confised on that)
Vaati is a reoccuring villain with more appearences
Impa has a straneg cult following, has the most apparences technically, but is fairly minor
Toon Zelda is a Toon version of Zelda..so that one's pretty obvious.

I like Impa. But that's me. We all have our opinion and they're all equally valid, and the only thing that seems to make people think so and so is more liekly is that it happens to be the one they support. Let's talk about anything else. Like retros, who likes retors?

EDIT: @Zhagdon is right. Classic Ganon actually is the only choice. Sigh

I agree. I mentioned last night that people seem to only get behind their favorites when it comes to Zelda character debates.
I think retros are cool. We may get a new one, but it's still entirely possible that Little Mac, Pacman, or Megaman count. I'm not exactly too sure on what Sakurai is thinking when it comes to retro characters.

 

[KageJuin]

This zelda topic is getting silly. There aren't any great possibilities for newcomers, and a handful of subpar ones:

Ghiriam is the most recent villain (except this yuga fellow? maybe? I'm confised on that)
Vaati is a reoccuring villain with more appearences
Impa has a straneg cult following, has the most apparences technically, but is fairly minor
Toon Zelda is a Toon version of Zelda..so that one's pretty obvious.

I like Impa. But that's me. We all have our opinion and they're all equally valid, and the only thing that seems to make people think so and so is more liekly is that it happens to be the one they support. Let's talk about anything else. Like retros, who likes retors?

EDIT: @ Zhadgon is right. Classic Ganon actually is the only choice. Sigh

I agree.

Viewing the series as a whole Impa and Vaati make the most sense.
Girahim is a one-off villain like Zant, Aghanim or many other before him.
Impa is a Sheikah, who are represented by Sheik, so if we pick a character based on representation and uniqueness it would be Vaati.

In light of the Robin reveal, I would like to say Vaati, but that would also contradict the trophy theory. In which case it would be Girahim.