Character Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

I will explain my reasonings on no Dark Pit a bit further.

Is Dark Pit a really requested character? A really popular one?
I understand if Ridley fans are still hopefuls about a Ridley reveal, and all the "mistery" behind him, becaus he's EXTREMELY popular (at least in the west).

But... is Dark Pit worth some "mistery" behind?
Chances are, if Lucina was revealed right off the bat, in a combo trailer with a truly unique character, then Dark Pit's chances of getting an official Newcomer banner was missed in the Palutena trailer.

Notice how Pit was taken out of the picture at the beginning. And how Dark Pit flies in at the end.
This, between the lines, reads me as Color Swap (with DP's voice).

I was not entirely aware of the notion that only "really requested" or "really popular" characters were the only plausible selections for the roster. Silly me, I thought that a character's inclusion was based on their merit.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Sakurai did mention that if there's enough distinction between the two characters, then they'll be released as an individual. If not, then they'll be a costume change.

I know, that's my point. Dark Pit does have differences from Pit.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I was not entirely aware of the notion that only "really requested" or "really popular" characters were the only plausible selections for the roster. Silly me, I thought that a character's inclusion was based on their merit.

Sorry for the double quote.

Isn't he a veteran? Tacked on to a Newcomer's reveal trailer? Why would he want to attempt to steal some spotlight? Captain Falcon didn't get a banner either.

Charizard is sort of debatable, because his announcement as a character had several attatchments to it.
Like say... no more Pokemon Trainer/Squirtle/Ivysaur with him. (And he's still sharing the trailer with a fellow Pokemon character).

--

And well, yeah, some characters get in by merit. But just how many are these?

Little Mac?
3rd party characters?
That's it.

And these don't have to be separate variables either. One character can get both through merit AND through popularity.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I will explain my reasonings on no Dark Pit a bit further.

Is Dark Pit a really requested character? A really popular one?
I understand if Ridley fans are still hopefuls about a Ridley reveal, and all the "mistery" behind him, becaus he's EXTREMELY popular (at least in the west).

But... is Dark Pit worth some "mistery" behind?
Chances are, if Lucina was revealed right off the bat, in a combo trailer with a truly unique character, then Dark Pit's chances of getting an official Newcomer banner was missed in the Palutena trailer.

Notice how Pit was taken out of the picture at the beginning. And how Dark Pit flies in at the end.
This, between the lines, reads me as Color Swap (with DP's voice).

I guess Medusa and Paper Mario's chances have become very slim.
From what we've seen so far, there hasn't been any two trailers that have come from the same franchise. And I doubt a clone like Dark Pit would be important enough to warrant his own trailer.

August is coming up. And though I'm certain that Ridley will be revealed on that month, resolving the Dark Pit tease with a Medusa reveal could also occur. Or even a reworked Ganon on that day.
...
...I want a villains trailer.

 

[Morbi]

Sorry for the double quote.

Isn't he a veteran? Tacked on to a Newcomer's reveal trailer? Why would he want to attempt to steal some spotlight? Captain Falcon didn't get a banner either.

Charizard is sort of debatable, because his announcement as a character had several attatchments to it.
Like say... no more Pokemon Trainer/Squirtle/Ivysaur with him. (And he's still sharing the trailer with a fellow Pokemon character).

I apologize, by "banner" I assumed you meant their spot on the web-site, I did not realize that you were alluding to that aspect of the trailer. I would assert that it is because the character is not yet ready to be revealed myself. But I suppose one could not be entirely certain.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think for semi-clones, if they are popular requested characters, in which Dark Pit is decently requested like , , , , and, they can get in.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I guess Medusa and Paper Mario's chances have become very slim.
From what we've seen so far, there hasn't been any two trailers that have come from the same franchise. And I doubt a clone like Dark Pit would be important enough to warrant his own trailer.

That's making the assumption that every newcomer will be getting a trailer

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

That's making the assumption that every newcomer will be getting a trailer

Is that any more wrong an idea than Dark Pit being a newcomer?

 

[Oddliestotter]

That's making the assumption that every newcomer will be getting a trailer

AND YOU GET A TRAILER. AND YOU GET A TRAILER. EVERYONE GETS A TRAILER!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rockaphin]

I think for semi-clones, if they are popular requested characters, in which Dark Pit is decently requested like , , , , and, they can get in.

I can understand the first three but the last two I'm quite confused. Neither are clones in the slightest.

I guess Paper Mario's chances have become very slim.

His chances were slim from the beginning! He's paper after all

 

[shinhed-echi]

I guess Medusa and Paper Mario's chances have become very slim.
From what we've seen so far, there hasn't been any two trailers that have come from the same franchise. And I doubt a clone like Dark Pit would be important enough to warrant his own trailer.

August is coming up. And though I'm certain that Ridley will be revealed on that month, resolving the Dark Pit tease with a Medusa reveal could also occur. Or even a reworked Ganon on that day.
...
...I want a villains trailer.

I could TOTALLY see a reworked Ganon re-introduced in a new Zelda trailer.
I totally agree with you regarding a Dark Pit trailer.

Really looking forward to August as well. Would love to see a new trailer. Not a big fan of F.E. bit if said trailer is as good as it was, I'll be extremely happy no matter what character shows up. :D

I apologize, by "banner" I assumed you meant their spot on the web-site, I did not realize that you were alluding to that aspect of the trailer. I would assert that it is because the character is not yet ready to be revealed myself. But I suppose one could not be entirely certain.

Sorry, should have made that clearer.
Well, so far those who aren't ready to be shown all happen to be veterans. Unless hypothetically, Dark Pit was in, which in this case would mean he'd be the first character to be pre-announced without getting his own trailer banner. :D

 

[Morbi]

Sorry for the double quote.

Isn't he a veteran? Tacked on to a Newcomer's reveal trailer? Why would he want to attempt to steal some spotlight? Captain Falcon didn't get a banner either.

Charizard is sort of debatable, because his announcement as a character had several attatchments to it.
Like say... no more Pokemon Trainer/Squirtle/Ivysaur with him. (And he's still sharing the trailer with a fellow Pokemon character).

--

And well, yeah, some characters get in by merit. But just how many are these?

Little Mac?
3rd party characters?
That's it.

And these don't have to be separate variables either. One character can get both through merit AND through popularity.

Smash 64: (?)
Super Smash Brothers Melee: (?)(?)
Super Smash Brothers Brawl: (?)

That seems to be a lot of characters, the characters in question are certainly disputable, most for different reasons, but I highly doubt they were included solely based on staggering popularity or requests.

 

[Chandeelure]

The more I keep hearing about Bandana Dee, the more I can see him as a character. Maybe that's just me though!

Yay.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I really just don't see a reworked Ganondorf being considered a newcomer. If he was, why wasn't Bowser, who recieved probaby just as many changes?

 

[Morbi]

Yay.

It is finally starting to work; it has been awhile, but people seem to be opening up to the possibility. No more of that utterly arbitrary, "Kirby is fine as is" argument. And we have you to thank for it, thank you Chandelure.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Smash 64: (?)
Super Smash Brothers Melee: (?)(?)
Super Smash Brothers Brawl: (?)

That seems to be a lot of characters, the characters in question are certainly disputable, most for different reasons, but I highly doubt they were included solely based on staggering popularity or requests.

Haha, for a minute there I thought you were referencing my sig.

Er-hem.
No, I'm not talking about veterans, really.

I'm just talking about Newcomers for SSB4.
So far, they all seem to be about franchises popular in THIS generation.
The only exceptions are Little Mac (although Punch Out! is always popular in the VC area) and the 3rd party dudes (who are all extremely popular either way, thus getting them in SSB4)

Characters introduced in past SSB games seem to have other things going for them. But for SSB4, evidence tells me popularity/relevance of current generation is the main factor.

 

[GamerGuy09]

I think we're getting either Blood Falcon or Black Shadow as a newcomer if Ganondorf gets a new moveset. So each BF or BS can get his old moveset.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I can understand the first three but the last two I'm quite confused. Neither are clones in the slightest.

decently requested, I imagine

Is that any more wrong an idea than Dark Pit being a newcomer?

In my opinion, yes. I like Dark Pit and think he'd be cool. I don't, however, think he'd warrant a trailer because he isn't as hypable of a newcomer.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I really just don't see a reworked Ganondorf being considered a newcomer. If he was, why wasn't Bowser, who recieved probaby just as many changes?

Probably because Bowser's changes wouldn't nearly be as drastic.

 

[Morbi]

Haha, for a minute there I thought you were referencing my sig.

Er-hem.
No, I'm not talking about veterans, really.

I'm just talking about Newcomers for SSB4.
So far, they all seem to be about franchises popular in THIS generation.
The only exceptions are Little Mac (although Punch Out! is always popular in the VC area).

Characters introduced in past SSB games seem to have other things going for them. But for SSB4, evidence tells me popularity/relevance of current generation is the main factor.

I suppose that is fair. I am merely asserting that there is a precedent that indicates that popularity is not the sole factor considered, and that more often than not, clones do not need to be popular to warrant inclusion.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Probably because Bowser's changes wouldn't nearly be as drastic.

Well, if we get Ganon, he'd be a newcomer, but a reworked Ganondorf would still be a veteran.

 

[aldelaro5]

His chances were slim from the beginning! He's paper after all

it's even more funny because they were before. Now, I say decent.

 

[Rockaphin]

Probably because Bowser's changes wouldn't nearly be as drastic.

IMO, Classic Ganon should be his own character. As much as I'd love to see Ganon, I don't think he should replace Ganondorf.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

IMO, Classic Ganon should be his own character. As much as I'd love to see Ganon, I don't think he should Ganondorf.

This is the ideal situation:

Ganon confirmed.

Ganondorf reworked with a better, more faithful moveset.

Black Shadow confirmed.

Millions of children happy to play as Captain Batman.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I suppose that is fair. I am merely asserting that there is a precedent that indicates that popularity is not the sole factor considered, and that more often than not, clones do not need to be popular to warrant inclusion.

That is true. At least for past cases such as Pichu.

I even wish the clones (hopefully few) in this game were a bit more left-field-ish characters. But I'm betting popularity will be a big factor even for them.
They most likely need all the brand prescence they can muster.

I'd also bring up Amiibos, and how toys sell based on popularity as well, but I think Amiibo is a universe of its own, and I'm not sure how that's going to work.

 

[GamerGuy09]

This might sound stupid, but I don't want Ganon for the sheer fact that everyone is going to be confused.

Ganon or Ganondorf? Ganondorf or Ganon?

I know it is a stupid reason, but it really bugs me. Everyone just calls Ganondorf, "Ganon" already.

It is going to be like the "Xbox One" situation where everyone doesn't know if you are talking about the first Xbox or the new Xbox.

 

[Rockaphin]

This might sound stupid, but I don't want Ganon for the sheer fact that everyone is going to be confused.

Ganon or Ganondorf? Ganondorf or Ganon?

I know it is a stupid reason, but it really bugs me. Everyone just calls Ganondorf, "Ganon" already.

It is going to be like the "Xbox One" situation where everyone doesn't know if you are talking about the first Xbox or the new Xbox.

I'll admit and say that I usually refer to Ganondorf as Ganon. While I personally don't see why that should omit Ganon from playable status, I can see where you're coming from and I agree to an extent.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

This might sound stupid, but I don't want Ganon for the sheer fact that everyone is going to be confused.

Ganon or Ganondorf? Ganondorf or Ganon?

I know it is a stupid reason, but it really bugs me. Everyone just calls Ganondorf, "Ganon" already.

It is going to be like the "Xbox One" situation where everyone doesn't know if you are talking about the first Xbox or the new Xbox.

Eh, it's still better than Pit and Dark Pit, Mario and Shadow Mario, and Samus and Dark Samus.

Maybe Ganon will have his own title to differentiate him. After all, Young Link and Toon Link were never called that in their original games.

Like Pig Ganon! Or Beast Ganon!

 

[Morbi]

This is the ideal situation:

Ganon confirmed.

Ganondorf reworked with a better, more faithful moveset.

Black Shadow confirmed.

Millions of children happy to play as Captain Batman.

That is quite literally my dream.

This might sound stupid, but I don't want Ganon for the sheer fact that everyone is going to be confused.

Ganon or Ganondorf? Ganondorf or Ganon?

I know it is a stupid reason, but it really bugs me. Everyone just calls Ganondorf, "Ganon" already.

It is going to be like the "Xbox One" situation where everyone doesn't know if you are talking about the first Xbox or the new Xbox.

Ganondorf is correct though, so is Ganon. So it should not bother you as everyone is right!

 

[dezeray112]

Agreed.
Double trailers are now a thing.
Charizard:Greninja
Lucina:Robin

If Dark Pit was playable, he would have at least gotten a banner for himself in Palutena's trailer.
I'm betting he's either a glorified color swap (together with voice swap and all) ((Most likely scenario, because why on Earth would Sakurai remove a color swap))
Or to a lesse extent, an AT.

I wouldn't be surprised if they showed another two characters within the next character unveil trailer. That is considering that it is not very long until the game comes out in Japan within two months time and Sakurai saying that they are nearing the bottom for newcomer trailers.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

If Dark Pit is indeed a clone character, then he will probably share a trailer with a newcomer, it could be a continuation of the palutena one, with ganondorf, black shadow, mewtwo or ridley

 

[Autumn ♫]

But guys...Ganon's already in Smash!

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

But guys...Ganon's already in Smash!

So was Palutena.

I want to believe

 

[GamerGuy09]

But guys...Ganon's already in Smash!

That's not necessarily a bad point.

If Ganon were to be back, he would need a new Final Smash if Beat Ganon were to be in the game.

What would it be?

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I, personally, love the idea of Ganondorf using his trident simply as Ganondorf.

 

[~Krystal~]

I'm in love with the idea of Ganondorf using anything besides his fists and feet. Toon Ganondorf, anyone?

 

[WishOn]

I just want Ganon to be his own unique character.

 

[Pizzanigs]

Yeah...still don't like Bandana Dee. Sorry. I am interested in Ganon though. I personally would love to see the Ganon from Ocarina of Time. I was originally against Ridley, but now I find myself supporting him. And of course, everyone knows I love K. Rool.

 

[N3ON]

Bandana Dee could make for a perfectly feasible character, but Kirby obv is fine as is, it has its primary cast and most popular characters. It has a completely adequate amount of characters for the series, and all of them are unique.

How is it not fine as is?

 

[praline]

I have a question, why didn't Falcon get a banner? I would assert his status as a hidden unlockable as well because of this, but he's been reveled on the website. Why does Charizard warrant a banner but Falcon does not? So confusing.

Because Charizard is his own character now, free from being held down by Squirtle and Ivysaur.