Character Discussion Thread

[domokl]

the every character is not named for before reveal logic people use to say dark pit isnt in isflawed when you realize sakurai mentioned captain falcon in a article before he got revealed. also ice climbers since i doubt theyve been cut.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

It just started development, and I highly doubt we'll be getting any content or benefit post-Tropical Freeze release in the game.

Dude, the game was planned way before smash bros was, also if I may ask, Why don't you have Ridley in your roster? I mean, if you have Dark Pit who was teased and in reality, isn't in better position than Ridley, then why not have Ridley too?

 

[TitanTeaTime]

I am not going to be supporting Dark Pit any time soon. He's probably the only newcomer people are considering for some reason that I actually hate the idea of. His appearance in Palutena's temple should deconfirm him, but that only made people jump on the bandwagon... the same people who think 8 seconds of footage showing Ridley's shadow means stage hazard and nothing else.
Pretty much: He didn't get splash art, and he appeared in someone else's trailer without it. His name was also explicitely mentioned by Palutena. Unless there's going to be a 20 second trailer carrying on from where Palutena's trailer left off showing the splash art and all the footage you need to see of a clone, I don't think it means anything aside from that he's back not even as an alt costume but as a palette swap like he was back in Brawl.

 

[Morbi]

Dude, the game was planned way before smash bros was, also if I may ask, Why don't you have Ridley in your roster? I mean, if you have Dark Pit who was teased and in reality, isn't in better position than Ridley, then why not have Ridley too?

Perhaps it is because he supports Dark Pit, but he does not support Ridley. That is only a possibility. I am not even sure! It just seems like that MIGHT be the case.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

I'm not going to go as far as to say that Dark Pit's a character yet, but I definitely think that he's something more than an alt. Sakurai has essentially pretended that Dark Pit doesn't exist since he was shown in the trailer, leaving the fans confused on the matter. In nearly every other case where a good amount of people are confused about whether a character that has been shown is playable or not, Sakurai or Nintendo are quick to clarify (as we most recently saw with Chrom and Lucina). You would expect a pic of the day or something like that to show off Dark Pit if he were an alt, like Sakurai has done with the other alts. I saw some speculation that this is because he's waiting to reveal that some alts will be completely different characters, but he has already talked about those in the Famitsu article.

Sakurai is obviously leaving us guessing on purpose. For what reason has yet to be seen, but this seems like a lot of secrecy and confusion for a simple alt. He might be a secret character like Game and Watch, he might be a boss, he might even be a playable boss like recent rumors claim, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Dude, the game was planned way before smash bros was, also if I may ask, Why don't you have Ridley in your roster? I mean, if you have Dark Pit who was teased and in reality, isn't in better position than Ridley, then why not have Ridley too?

I have a feeling Sakurai is teasing him for playable boss, that's why I'm not adding him, and I don't really see him as likely anymore, and feel anxious even after four months since the Ridley "boss appearance."

Perhaps it is because he supports Dark Pit, but he does not support Ridley. That is only a possibility. I am not even sure! It just seems like that MIGHT be the case.

I support Ridley, but I don't feel really confident he's in as a character.

 

[Weeman]

There's a stunning lack of Hawlucha in recent rosters i'm afraid.

 

[domokl]

yeah i do think ridley is in for sure and dark pit is iffy.though blues logic is somewhat flawed
Ridley:shown as a shadow with his name not being said or him shown at all except for his tail.STAGE HAZARD
dark pit:his name being said and him shown in full body and implied.PLAYABLE
the logic is somewhat flawed blue.

 

[Morbi]

I am not going to be supporting Dark Pit any time soon. He's probably the only newcomer people are considering for some reason that I actually hate the idea of. His appearance in Palutena's temple should deconfirm him, but that only made people jump on the bandwagon... the same people who think 8 seconds of footage showing Ridley's shadow means stage hazard and nothing else.
Pretty much: He didn't get splash art, and he appeared in someone else's trailer without it. His name was also explicitely mentioned by Palutena. Unless there's going to be a 20 second trailer carrying on from where Palutena's trailer left off showing the splash art and all the footage you need to see of a clone, I don't think it means anything aside from that he's back not even as an alt costume but as a colour like he was back in Brawl.

That is not necessarily consistent logic (there is not a correlation between the two perspectives), I am certainly an advocate of Ridley and I was one of the first people to analyze the Direct and deduce that Ridley was indeed still a plausible candidate. I did not believe that his shadow "deconfirmed" him as a playable character, if you wish to confirm this, you can always try to find April 8th/9th and see my text-wall detailing such. I am not necessarily "jumping on a bandwagon" as much as I am adjusting my logic given the current information. I did not support Ridley prior to the April Direct; however, the new information led me to a different conclusion. If you can prove that Pittoo was "deconfirmed," you can be my guest. You would certainly be the first.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'm guessing Dark Pit is a red herring to throw off people who subscribe to the "hinting=confirmation" theories.
Also maybe he's part of Medusa's Final Smash or something.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

I have a feeling Sakurai is teasing him for playable boss, that's why I'm not adding him, and I don't really see him as likely anymore, and feel anxious even after four months since the Ridley "boss appearance."

Well to be fair, Dark Pit isn't exactly in a better situation, being mentioned by name like all the other deconfirmed characters, not being announced like Lucina despite being a clone, things you have probably heard before
I mean, Sakurai could also be teasing Dark Pit as an alt costume or a playable boss in Paluten'a temple

 

[Morbi]

I'm guessing Dark Pit is a red herring to throw off people who subscribe to the "hinting=confirmation" theories.
Also maybe he's part of Medusa's Final Smash or something.

I'm guessing Dark Pit is not a red herring to throw off people who subscribe to the "hinting=confirmation" theories.

Also maybe he's part of Smash's final roster or something.

 

[False Sense]

Perhaps it is because he supports Dark Pit, but he does not support Ridley. That is only a possibility. I am not even sure! It just seems like that MIGHT be the case.

Well, I suppose it would be rather difficult to support both at the same time, considering that the evidence for their supposed playable statuses contradict each other (People say Ridley is likely due to the fact that he was teased with his shadow and hasn't been named once, while some people say Dark Pit is likely due to the attention he got at the end of Palutena's trailer).

Now personally, I think the evidence we've seen favors Ridley and works against Dark Pit. But I suppose that is up to individual interpretation.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well to be fair, Dark Pit isn't exactly in a better situation, being mentioned by name like all the other deconfirmed characters, not being announced like Lucina despite being a clone, things you have probably heard before

Being mentioned by name is only just one of the Smashboards theories here, that doesn't necessarily deconfirm him as a playable character.

 

[domokl]

i still have my reasons as to why playable bosses wont be a thing as well,

 

[Niala]

That's the best part is that there's player sized bosses (Black Knight, Nergal, Validar) and the hulking sized guys (Marth's endgame dragon foe, the chimera fire monster beast thing from FE7, Ashnard on his dragon would be Ridley sized ) and I'm sure the japanese exclusive titles offer plenty of depth for either type. There's so much potential there and now that FE isn't as obscure, at least in smash terms, a little boss love would be great.

I agree! I love that Fire Emblem is kind of coming out of the shadow of the Dragon (heh) in terms of gaming. And you're right, there's possibility for large enemies as well, however for the most part the characters in Fire Emblem games (of which I've played [which is FE6 and beyond]) are people. It would be kind of awkward to introduce a character such as Fomortiis who wasn't really any part of the story, he was just the corpse you fought at the end, when the people you actively confronted throughout the plot were Lyon and Emperor Vigarde. Ashnard riding Rajaion is possible, however, since they're both at least characters in the game.

I think, assuming this possibility, it's more likely to see a relatively human-sized enemy. Besides, I'd probably prefer that-- there aren't any bosses so far that exist at your size, it might be an interesting concept.

 

[Morbi]

Well, I suppose it would be rather difficult to support both at the same time, considering that the evidence for their supposed playable statuses contradict each other (People say Ridley is likely due to the fact that he was teased with his shadow and hasn't been named once, while some people say Dark Pit is likely due to the attention he got at the end of Palutena's trailer).

Now personally, I think the evidence we've seen favors Ridley and works against Dark Pit. But I suppose that is up to individual interpretation.

That logic only contradicts itself if that is the reason that you support said characters; however, I do not support either of them based on whether or not they are named or not named directly... in fact...

Well to be fair, Dark Pit isn't exactly in a better situation, being mentioned by name like all the other deconfirmed characters, not being announced like Lucina despite being a clone, things you have probably heard before
I mean, Sakurai could also be teasing Dark Pit as an alt costume or a playable boss in Paluten'a temple

Could you perhaps explain to me why the notion that he was named is relevant?

 

[domokl]

the being named as a way to be deconfirmed was never mentioned by sakurai as a way to deconfirm so it really is just a fan theory that can be broken.

 

[BluePikmin11]

i still have my reasons as to why playable bosses wont be a thing as well,

I'm curious as to what they are?
They better not be opinionated.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

That logic only contradicts itself if that is the reason that you support said characters; however, I do not support either of them based on whether or not they are named or not named directly... in fact...


Could you perhaps explain to me why the notion that he was named is relevant?

It is not really one, is just that Palutena, who is playable, was never mentioned by name while the rest of the deconfirmed character were, in other words, it isn't proof, just something that I noticed, I hope I was clear

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

It is not really one, is just that Palutena, who is playable, was never mentioned by name while the rest of the deconfirmed character were, in other words, it isn't proof, just something that I noticed, I hope I was clear

Didn't Sakurai mention her by name in of the the pics of the day prior to her announcement?

 

[domokl]

I'm curious as to what they are?
They better not be opinionated.

first off based on how weve seen stage bosses so far they arent very intersting. as yellow devil you would shoot a few lasers every second. not very fun. second sakurai has said there will be no gamepad gimmicks which would be one of the only ways to pull off the controls with 4 players and a boss.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

It is not really one, is just that Palutena, who is playable, was never mentioned by name while the rest of the deconfirmed character were, in other words, it isn't proof, just something that I noticed, I hope I was clear

To better verify:

Palutena's name, by herself, wasn't named when directly addressed. When she was, she was referred to as the "Goddess of Light". Her stage name, "Palutena's Temple" and "Pseudo-Palutena", were.

However, I don't count those instances because they weren't referring directly to Palutena herself.

 

[Weeman]

I'm curious as to what they are?
They better not be opinionated.

Well i'm not exactly fond of the idea, but i guess playable bosses would need to be implemented as a gamepad gimmick, wich if i'm not mistaken, Sakurai has opted against, that is of course assuming you mean playable bosses in certain stages along with other 4 players.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

first off based on how weve seen stage bosses so far they arent very intersting. as yellow devil you would shoot a few lasers every second. not very fun. second sakurai has said there will be no gamepad gimmicks which would be one of the only ways to pull off the controls with 4 players and a boss.

Well we've only really seen one boss, who isn't playable, or at least wasn't being played at the time.

I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to add in a mode separate to the usual that used the gamepad, as his reason for not including gamepad-specific controls was to keep the playing field level.

 

[epicgordan]

I am not going to be supporting Dark Pit any time soon. He's probably the only newcomer people are considering for some reason that I actually hate the idea of. His appearance in Palutena's temple should deconfirm him, but that only made people jump on the bandwagon... the same people who think 8 seconds of footage showing Ridley's shadow means stage hazard and nothing else.
Pretty much: He didn't get splash art, and he appeared in someone else's trailer without it. His name was also explicitely mentioned by Palutena. Unless there's going to be a 20 second trailer carrying on from where Palutena's trailer left off showing the splash art and all the footage you need to see of a clone, I don't think it means anything aside from that he's back not even as an alt costume but as a palette swap like he was back in Brawl.

You are free to hate the idea of his inclusion or assume that he isn't in the game as his own character. But I must correct you on one little detail here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64L7xR295bQ

In Japanese. With English captions turned on. At 2:40, she does not mention Dark Pit's name at all. So much for the name theory working against him since the Japanese version is the more reliable option to go by than the dub.

 

[Niala]

Well, I suppose it would be rather difficult to support both at the same time, considering that the evidence for their supposed playable statuses contradict each other (People say Ridley is likely due to the fact that he was teased with his shadow and hasn't been named once, while some people say Dark Pit is likely due to the attention he got at the end of Palutena's trailer).

Now personally, I think the evidence we've seen favors Ridley and works against Dark Pit. But I suppose that is up to individual interpretation.

On top of what @ Morbi said, there's also a thing called Cognitive Dissonance. People are completely capable of holding contrasting opinions, as long as they can validate it to themselves. For example, I could support Ridley and Dark Pit under the simple desire of having them both as playable characters, even if their evidence contradicts each other. I don't, but you get the idea.

Also, yes, I am only bringing this up because I learned what it was called on QI a couple of days ago and thought it was interesting to share.

 

[BluePikmin11]

first off based on how weve seen stage bosses so far they arent very intersting. as yellow devil you would shoot a few lasers every second. not very fun. second sakurai has said there will be no gamepad gimmicks which would be one of the only ways to pull off the controls with 4 players and a boss.

Only Gamepad gimmicks, as in touch screen and gyrosensor control. Does using the Wii U's buttons and control stick count as a gimmick because I'm sure they doesn't, there is still the possibility that they can be controlled through the control scheme I mentioned.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Didn't Sakurai mention her by name in of the the pics of the day prior to her announcement?

They mentioned her as the goddess of light and later mentioned pseudo palutena
@ Dalek_Kolt That is basically what happened

 

[False Sense]

That logic only contradicts itself if that is the reason that you support said characters; however, I do not support either of them based on whether or not they are named or not named directly... in fact...


Could you perhaps explain to me why the notion that he was named is relevant?

Well, the reason I think being directly named is relevant is because of how past characters have ended up in the game. For starters, Sakurai never mentions newcomers by their actual names before they are revealed. Usually this is just him not referencing the unrevealed newcomers at all, but there was one instance when Palutena's Temple was revealed that he referred to Palutena as the "Goddess of Light." It's clear that he was referring to Palutena, but he did not mention her by her actual name. Similarly, if you believe that Ridley is playable, a similar situation has happened with him; when the Pyrosphere was revealed, he was alluded to as "an enemy from Samus' past," and then when his shadow was shown in the Direct, Sakurai didn't acknowledge Ridley at all.

On the other end of the spectrum, characters that have been mentioned by name before actually being shown in the game have not been made playable. This can be seen with most de-confirmations, but the best example I can think of is when Sakurai mentioned the name Viridi with a picture of the Reset Bomb Forest stage. Some time later, she was shown off as a background detail.

So from what we've seen so far, if a character is playable, Sakurai will avoid referring to them by their actual name. Which makes sense, I think. Wouldn't want to go drawing attention to unrevealed characters. So in the case of Dark Pit, the fact that he was clearly shown at the end of Palutena's trailer, mentioned by name, and not actually confirmed leads me to believe that he's not playable.

 

[domokl]

Well, the reason I think being directly named is relevant is because of how past characters have ended up in the game. For starters, Sakurai never mentions newcomers by their actual names before they are revealed. Usually this is just him not referencing the unrevealed newcomers at all, but there was one instance when Palutena's Temple was revealed that he referred to Palutena as the "Goddess of Light." It's clear that he was referring to Palutena, but he did not mention her by her actual name. Similarly, if you believe that Ridley is playable, a similar situation has happened with him; when the Pyrosphere was revealed, he was alluded to as "an enemy from Samus' past," and then when his shadow was shown in the Direct, Sakurai didn't acknowledge Ridley at all.

On the other end of the spectrum, characters that have been mentioned by name before actually being shown in the game have not been made playable. This can be seen with most de-confirmations, but the best example I can think of is when Sakurai mentioned the name Viridi with a picture of the Reset Bomb Forest stage. Some time later, she was shown off as a background detail.

So from what we've seen so far, if a character is playable, Sakurai will avoid referring to them by their actual name. Which makes sense, I think. Wouldn't want to go drawing attention to unrevealed characters. So in the case of Dark Pit, the fact that he was clearly shown at the end of Palutena's trailer, mentioned by name, and not actually confirmed leads me to believe that he's not playable.

its still a fan theory in the end. sakurai has never mentioned mentioning characters deconfirmes them. as said above in the acutal japanese trailer his name isnt said.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

its still a fan theory in the end. sakurai has never mentioned mentioning characters deconfirmes them. as said above in the acutal japanese trailer his name isnt said.

They probably just said his name in the English trailer because a lot of people would have no idea who he is.

 

[epicgordan]

So from what we've seen so far, if a character is playable, Sakurai will avoid referring to them by their actual name. Which makes sense, I think. Wouldn't want to go drawing attention to unrevealed characters. So in the case of Dark Pit, the fact that he was clearly shown at the end of Palutena's trailer, mentioned by name, and not actually confirmed leads me to believe that he's not playable.

If you watch the Japanese version of the Palutena trailer with the English captions turned on, Dark Pit isn't referred to by name at all. I'd post the link, but I already did it a couple comments back. But the Dark Pit being referred to by name in the English dub has absolutely no bearing because of this.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I can confirm that Palutena doesn't refer to Dark Pit by name in the Japanese trailer.

Though, why does it matter?

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

To clarify what Sakurai has said about using the Gamepad:

"The idea with Smash Bros., you have four players come together, and it's a fair playing field. The idea of having one person with this special controller and special features that are only available to the gamepad player flies in the face of that. Right now, we're not adding any additional [GamePad] functionality at all.

With Smash Bros. being a four-player game we want people to be on equal footing. That's our main philosophy when it comes to control features."
http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/14/4429220/super-smash-bros-for-wii-u-nintendo-3ds-removes-tripping

Reading the article, the context of the question seems to be concerning using the gamepad's touchscreen and such for controls. From what I can tell he's more against giving the gamepad special controls than he is using it in different modes like would be the case with playable bosses. So they're not out of the question, I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

I think the confusion is coming from the problem that Sakurai contradicted himself.

A long time ago, (no source) he said that he doesn't want other individual characters to be alts for others.
He then on Monday or Tuesday said that Lucina was going to be an alt for Marth, just as Girl villagers & Male Fit Trainer are alts, because only voice over and names are different. It is Gameplay that makes them a new (clone) character.

You guys keep talking over eachother.

It all comes down to different playstyle.

Will Dark Pit have any different gameplay than Pit?

Yes? Then he is a newcomer clone.

No? Then he is an alt, despite having a different voice and name.

Different characters can be alts now. Only gameplay changes make new characters.

Is there any evidence that Dark Pit will play different? No? Then alt. Yes? What proof?

 

[CalumG]

Sakurai talked pretty openly about Pac-Man in an interview months ago, even going as far as to describe what he'd like to see as Pac-Man's Final Smash

Pac-Man deconfirmed, go home folks

 

[BluePikmin11]

I can confirm that Palutena doesn't refer to Dark Pit by name in the Japanese trailer.

Though, why does it matter?

He doesn't eehhh? And it took a month to realize this.
Looks I know what I'm adding in my RTC post about Dark Pit?

Sakurai talked pretty openly about Pac-Man in an interview months ago, even going as far as to describe what he'd like to see as Pac-Man's Final Smash

Pac-Man deconfirmed, go home folks

End of the name fan theory!!!!

 

[domokl]

Sakurai talked pretty openly about Pac-Man in an interview months ago, even going as far as to describe what he'd like to see as Pac-Man's Final Smash

Pac-Man deconfirmed, go home folks

he also has talked about captain falcon in an article before he got confirmed. rip captain falcon

 

[epicgordan]

I can confirm that Palutena doesn't refer to Dark Pit by name in the Japanese trailer.

Though, why does it matter?

People kept assuming that because his name was dropped in the dubbed trailer, that alone disconfirmed him from playable status since he appeared in her trailer without a splash text confirming him. And even if this held any credibility, Sakurai didn't call him Dark Pit anyways; she did. It's like saying the creators of Robot Chicken leaked Wario, Ganondorf and Lucas because they either appeared or their games alluded to during their segments in the Digital Event; what sense does that even make?