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Character Discussion Thread

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Spinosaurus

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He doesn't eehhh? And it took a month to realize this.
Looks I know what I'm adding in my RTC post about Dark Pit? :smirk:
Yeah, I think she says something like "Oh my, you came back?". No mention of Dark Pit, or "Kuroi Pitto". (Black Pit)

My Japanese is so rusty, so I could be wrong. lol But definitely did not mention Dark Pit.
 

TheNerdyOne_

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I think the confusion is coming from the problem that Sakurai contradicted himself.

A long time ago, (no source) he said that he doesn't want other individual characters to be alts for others.
He then on Monday or Tuesday said that Lucina was going to be an alt for Marth, just as Girl villagers & Male Fit Trainer are alts, because only voice over and names are different. It is Gameplay that makes them a new (clone) character.

You guys keep talking over eachother.

It all comes down to different playstyle.

Will Dark Pit have any different gameplay than Pit?

Yes? Then he is a newcomer clone.

No? Then he is an alt, despite having a different voice and name.

Different characters can be alts now. Only gameplay changes make new characters.

Is there any evidence that Dark Pit will play different? No? Then alt. Yes? What proof?
There is evidence that Dark Pit will play differently though, in the form of using different weapons. There's no proof either way though, it's all speculation at this point. We're really just going to have to wait and see what Sakurai has in store.
 

CalumG

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I still don't think Dark Pit will be anything more than an alt, and I'm a firm believer that Ridley will be playable... but this "saying them by name" stuff is BS if you ask me. Sakurai doesn't have these clear cut rules - he just does what he can to hype each individual character in the way that best suits them
 

Gunla

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From that Polygon Article:
"The idea with Smash Bros., you have four players come together, and it's a fair playing field," Sakurai explained. "The idea of having one person with this special controller and special features that are only available to the gamepad player flies in the face of that. Right now, we're not adding any additional [GamePad] functionality at all."
I think this potentially disconfirms a few extras, such as playable bosses using the gamepad as a special feature.

Again, having playable bosses isn't really something that would be fitting in Smash Bros in my opinion. Either they'd be playable fighters or hazards that are NPCs.
 

epicgordan

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I'm still of the opinion that 8-Bit Mario will be playable as the new retro joke character. I can just see it now.
 

TheNerdyOne_

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From that Polygon Article:
"The idea with Smash Bros., you have four players come together, and it's a fair playing field," Sakurai explained. "The idea of having one person with this special controller and special features that are only available to the gamepad player flies in the face of that. Right now, we're not adding any additional [GamePad] functionality at all."
I think this potentially disconfirms a few extras, such as playable bosses using the gamepad as a special feature.

Again, having playable bosses isn't really something that would be fitting in Smash Bros in my opinion. Either they'd be playable fighters or hazards that are NPCs.
You're forgetting to include the context behind that quote. The article definitely came across that they had asked about using the touchscreen or something similar as controls that are exclusive to the gamepad, the sentence both right before and right after what you quoted support that. It doesn't necessarily mean that he's against using the gamepad in any way, just for controls.
 

Gold_Jacobson

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There is evidence that Dark Pit will play differently though, in the form of using different weapons. There's no proof either way though, it's all speculation at this point. We're really just going to have to wait and see what Sakurai has in store.
There is no evidence that he will play different. He could play differently due to his background easily. But there is no proof in trailer or anything that he, if in Smash 4, would do any more than be visible and audible. Which means he's likely a Pit alt. Just as Lucina was going to be for Marth.
 

epicgordan

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As an alt or an individual character?
An individual joke retro character separate from Mario. He will have a somewhat mixed mechanic between Mario and Mr. Game & Watch, but not emulate nor be a clone of either.

Call him Jumpman or 8-Bit Mario, though. Because he can be red, green, blue, or white (fire flower). Haven't fully mapped out his moveset, but his final smash would transform him into the Duck Hunt dog, and you can either shoot at the ducks to keep going (and potentially spike another character) ten seconds at a time, or try to take out the playable characters altogether. Once the dog laughs, he reverts back to being 8-Bit Mario.
 

SureNsync

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I am not going to be supporting Dark Pit any time soon. He's probably the only newcomer people are considering for some reason that I actually hate the idea of. His appearance in Palutena's temple should deconfirm him, but that only made people jump on the bandwagon... the same people who think 8 seconds of footage showing Ridley's shadow means stage hazard and nothing else.
Pretty much: He didn't get splash art, and he appeared in someone else's trailer without it. His name was also explicitely mentioned by Palutena. Unless there's going to be a 20 second trailer carrying on from where Palutena's trailer left off showing the splash art and all the footage you need to see of a clone, I don't think it means anything aside from that he's back not even as an alt costume but as a palette swap like he was back in Brawl.
I'm going to consider this quote as a reference to the Rayman fan boys. As soon as a Rayman trophy is revealed, they go berserk.
 

TheNerdyOne_

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There is no evidence that he will play different. He could play differently due to his background easily. But there is no proof in trailer or anything that he, if in Smash 4, would do any more than be visible and audible. Which means he's likely a Pit alt. Just as Lucina was going to be for Marth.
In which case, there's no evidence either way. We haven't seen gameplay or anything like that. He could play exactly like Pit, but here is no proof in the trailer or anything.
 

Zynux

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I am not going to be supporting Dark Pit any time soon. He's probably the only newcomer people are considering for some reason that I actually hate the idea of. His appearance in Palutena's temple should deconfirm him, but that only made people jump on the bandwagon... the same people who think 8 seconds of footage showing Ridley's shadow means stage hazard and nothing else.
I'm confused. How does Dark Pit's appearance in Palutena's trailer mean he's not going to be a playable character? Does that mean Mr. Game & Watches appearance in Pac-man's trailer mean he's not playable either? :confused:

His appearance in Palutena's trailer could mean anything. Playable, boss, alternative skin, or just a trophy. Neither possibilities were asserted or insinuated, so I don't see why "deconfirm" would be the logical conclusion.

Pretty much: He didn't get splash art, and he appeared in someone else's trailer without it.
Ridley didn't get splash art, and he was teased in the "Boss Appearance" section for the video. Ridley deconfirmed as well? Not necessarily. I think you're jumping to conclusions prematurely (to be fair, I was guilty of this for a while as well).

Could you perhaps explain to me why the notion that he was named is relevant?
It's a "pattern" with some of the characters in this game that were confirmed to be playable. Of course, like all "patterns" that the fans latch on to, there's a good chance that it may not pertain to anything in the end. After all, there is nothing that implies that characters whose name is stated prior to a trailer will never be playable. So, I doubt it has any merit.

I'm guessing Dark Pit is a red herring to throw off people who subscribe to the "hinting=confirmation" theories.
Also maybe he's part of Medusa's Final Smash or something.
That would be strange. Dark Pit doesn't work for Medusa, Hades, or the Underworld Army. This is made pretty clear in the game.

From that Polygon Article:
"The idea with Smash Bros., you have four players come together, and it's a fair playing field," Sakurai explained. "The idea of having one person with this special controller and special features that are only available to the gamepad player flies in the face of that. Right now, we're not adding any additional [GamePad] functionality at all."
It should be noted that this article was published back in June of 2013. A lot of things can change in a year. Though with that said, exclusive GamePad functionalities should not be expected if we are only going by Sakurai's words, but at this point I would take anything Sakurai says with a grain of salt and nothing more.
 

Morbi

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Well, the reason I think being directly named is relevant is because of how past characters have ended up in the game. For starters, Sakurai never mentions newcomers by their actual names before they are revealed. Usually this is just him not referencing the unrevealed newcomers at all, but there was one instance when Palutena's Temple was revealed that he referred to Palutena as the "Goddess of Light." It's clear that he was referring to Palutena, but he did not mention her by her actual name. Similarly, if you believe that Ridley is playable, a similar situation has happened with him; when the Pyrosphere was revealed, he was alluded to as "an enemy from Samus' past," and then when his shadow was shown in the Direct, Sakurai didn't acknowledge Ridley at all.

On the other end of the spectrum, characters that have been mentioned by name before actually being shown in the game have not been made playable. This can be seen with most de-confirmations, but the best example I can think of is when Sakurai mentioned the name Viridi with a picture of the Reset Bomb Forest stage. Some time later, she was shown off as a background detail.

So from what we've seen so far, if a character is playable, Sakurai will avoid referring to them by their actual name. Which makes sense, I think. Wouldn't want to go drawing attention to unrevealed characters. So in the case of Dark Pit, the fact that he was clearly shown at the end of Palutena's trailer, mentioned by name, and not actually confirmed leads me to believe that he's not playable.
I do understand the precedent, but at the same time, I do not necessarily find it to be entirely feasible. I always assert that I do not believe in coincidence; however, this honestly seems as though that could be the case. I doubt he decided that he wanted to allude to each and every character in a discernible way for the purpose of satisfying an arbitrary pattern that makes his reveals entirely predictable, I would presume that he would prefer to do the antithesis of this. It has indeed been the case thus far, but it is not objectively certain until it is confirmed in each and every instance. I am more concerned with the overt hint at Pittoo to be honest, this insinuates that he wants us (the feeble minded) to believe that he is a playable character. Why would he want us to believe such? Or was he aware that many would be skeptical for the very same reason that everyone regurgitates? In that event, Pittoo is hidden in plain sight to the vast majority of speculators. There is no denying that despite the precedence, his allusion is unprecedented. So it is not logical to assert one way or the other without more information. However, I am not one to stand idly by when new evidence is presented to us. Based on Sakurai's statements, Dark Pit is at the very least, a plausible potential roster selection choice. I have not been incorrect thus far, so I am going to have faith in my speculating abilities. They tell me that Dark Pit is not just any alternate costume.
 
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~Krystal~

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Alt for Paper Mario :drshrug: (I think he probably meant his own character, but it would be cool if he had 8bit alts for normal mario, Samus, etc).
The 8-bit transformation has been a running gag in the Mario RPG games, even going back as far as the SNES one. That would be a cool idea if Paper Mario were playable.

An individual joke retro character separate from Mario. He will have a somewhat mixed mechanic between Mario and Mr. Game & Watch, but not emulate nor be a clone of either.

Call him Jumpman or 8-Bit Mario, though. Because he can be red, green, blue, or white (fire flower). Haven't fully mapped out his moveset, but his final smash would transform him into the Duck Hunt dog, and you can either shoot at the ducks to keep going (and potentially spike another character) ten seconds at a time, or try to take out the playable characters altogether. Once the dog laughs, he reverts back to being 8-Bit Mario.
I don't know how Duck Hunt Dog is related to Mario, but the FS sounds awesome. I understand that Duck Hunt was bundled with the original Mario Bros. game at one point, though.
 

Mr. Keebs

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I can't wait to play as Robin! Lucina looks like she's going to be a Marth clone from what I noticed in the trailer. I'm still excited to try out the two and of course I'm glad to see the Captain show up finally!
 

Morbi

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I can't wait to play as Robin! Lucina looks like she's going to be a Marth clone from what I noticed in the trailer. I'm still excited to try out the two and of course I'm glad to see the Captain show up finally!
I believe that she was confirmed to be a Marth clone,we are not entirely sure to what extent; however, it seems apparent that she is almost a full clone with a differing mechanic. She does not have "tippers," the damage is consistent throughout the blade regardless of whether or not you space properly. Albeit, she has a Guile taunt, that makes her better than Marth. :troll:
 
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domokl

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to be honest we could probably go on with this dark pit debate for days. we really dont have enough info to end this arguement right now.
 

simpleglitch

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The 8-bit transformation has been a running gag in the Mario RPG games, even going back as far as the SNES one. That would be a cool idea if Paper Mario were playable.
A friend and I were talking about all classic nintendo characters getting Retro Alts as a DLC Pack (for any character that has a 8-Bit or Retro version that is). Also possibly Yarn Alts for Kirby Characters

I can't wait to play as Robin! Lucina looks like she's going to be a Marth clone from what I noticed in the trailer. I'm still excited to try out the two and of course I'm glad to see the Captain show up finally!
Lucina is indeed a Marth clone. The funny part is though, I'm excited for her just to use her "Marth" disguise. :p
 

~Krystal~

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I believe that she was confirmed to be a Marth clone,we are not entirely sure to what extent; however, it seems apparent that she is almost a full clone with a differing mechanic. She does not have "tippers," the damage is consistent throughout the blade regardless of whether or not you space properly. Albeit, she has a Guile taunt, that makes her better than Marth. :troll:
Now all she needs is a theme song that goes with everything.
 

Mr. Keebs

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A friend and I were talking about all classic nintendo characters getting Retro Alts as a DLC Pack (for any character that has a 8-Bit or Retro version that is). Also possibly Yarn Alts for Kirby Characters



Lucina is indeed a Marth clone. The funny part is though, I'm excited for her just to use her "Marth" disguise. :p
As a "somewhat" Marth player, I'm looking forward to playing the pair just to see how they match up.
 

Morbi

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to be honest we could probably go on with this dark pit debate for days. we really dont have enough info to end this arguement right now.
It is indeed a circular argument; nevertheless, it amuses my black soul. If I could not handle redundant arguments, I would have left long ago.

So anyways, what do you guys believe Pittoo's Final Smash will be? :dazwa:
 

Oddliestotter

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I'm sure they've been discussed prior but thoughts on
K. Rool?
Krystal?
Bowser Jr.? as newcomers.

For veterans, any opinions on Meta Knight and Ice Climbers?
I feel if Meta Knight is going to be revealed, he'll be alongside Shulk, if Shulk is to be a playable character. Maybe I'm just hoping for a legendary sword battle!

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS GAME!!!!
 

KageJuin

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Girahim, Ridley, and Altair (Assassin's Creed, due to rayman trophy) confirmed!
 

Mr. Keebs

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I'm sure they've been discussed prior but thoughts on
K. Rool?
Krystal?
Bowser Jr.? as newcomers.

For veterans, any opinions on Meta Knight and Ice Climbers?
I feel if Meta Knight is going to be revealed, he'll be alongside Shulk, if Shulk is to be a playable character. Maybe I'm just hoping for a legendary sword battle!

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS GAME!!!!
I can see King K. Rool as a possibility.
Krystal, no... Falco AND Wolf would probably be confirmed before she is (I believe Wolf is going to RIP).
Bowser Jr., I hope not!
Ice Climbers, I'm pretty sure they're guaranteed.
Meta Knight, I hope they fix him if he comes back, he was WAY to OP in Brawl...
Shulk, I can see him being revealed soon.
 
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Morbi

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I'm sure they've been discussed prior but thoughts on
K. Rool?
Krystal?
Bowser Jr.? as newcomers.

For veterans, any opinions on Meta Knight and Ice Climbers?
I feel if Meta Knight is going to be revealed, he'll be alongside Shulk, if Shulk is to be a playable character. Maybe I'm just hoping for a legendary sword battle!

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS GAME!!!!
King K. Rool and Ice Climbers have Smash Run enemies, but that is not enough to convince me, as it seems to convince others, that they are indeed playable.

Krystal seems like an ideal DLC character if I do say so myself. I feel as though Falco and Wolf will take precedence over Krystal and I am not entirely certain that she has the merit to make it on the main roster. I could be wrong and I hope that I am.

Bowser Jr. would honestly sicken me. :urg:
 
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domokl

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I can see King K. Rool as a possibility.
Krystal, no... Falco AND Wolf would probably be confirmed before she is (I believe Wolf is going to RIP).
Bowser Jr., I hope not!
Ice Climbers, I'm pretty sure they're guaranteed.
Meta Knight, I hope they fix him if he comes back, he was WAY to OP in Brawl...
Shulk, I can see him being revealed soon.
lucina being a clone/semi clone of marth pretty much gurantees wolf in my eyes and i thought he would be in before that too,
 

UltimateWario

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i probably shouldve clarified that i believe lucina confirms lugified clones as well like wolf
Lucina is the very opposite of Luigified. If Sakurai's statements about her are true (and based on what we've seen of her), she's literally just Marth with a few hitbox changes and missing his tipper.

Though she apparently took like, literally zero development time, so whatever. I guess if they want to make Alt. Costumes with their own slots and a few minute changes, that's their prerogative.
 
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domokl

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also bowser jr should not be in because he might take inklings dlc moveset with his brush:troll:
 
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