Character Discussion Thread

[ihskeyp]

Well, what about this situation:
The characters in the website are listed in groups of nine. What if when all characters get revealed all squares get filled? Well look at the image above and you will understand:

Look, groups of nine. Below I started to put the name of the characters we all agree that are going to return. Nine characters. We all agree that we are going to get more newcomes, then I had to start another group. This group have the name of the characters that have some risk of not returning. Four characters. Then we have other five spaces to be filled.

So, If we are not going to get white squares in the official site, the roster have the size of 54 characters.

54 characters sounds plausible now that clones may happen. I'd be very happy if this ends up being true.

 

[Morbi]

We got Lucina. She is probably completely a clone.

You have absolutely no reason to believe Lucas and Wolf are cut.

Let us presume that Sakurai blatantly asserted that he was going to remove all clone characters and all semi-clone characters, characters that share at least half of their moves with another character on the roster. He would still have absolutely no reason to believe that those characters would be cut. Least of all, Wolf.

 

[Andinus]

We got Lucina. She is probably completely a clone.

You have absolutely no reason to believe Lucas and Wolf are cut.

First, until more about her is revealed we cannot know that she is totally a Marth clone for sure, second though the leak is discredited some, I'm still uncertain Lucas is returning, and this may be just spite, but if Lucas is cut, I would like to see wolf or falco cut too.

 

[egaddmario]

Personally I still feel the 47 + random is the roster we are getting,
The leak may be discredited some but I don't think that's reason to believe the roster will soar beyond 50, especially considering what Sakurai recently said about reaching the bottom of the barrel. I think we will see 1 more newcomer trailer, 2 more veteran reveals. And one maybe two hidden newcomers depending on cuts, which right now my gut tells me, (sadly) Lucas, Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and possibly Wolf is cut.

We're at 36 characters right now. Sakurai said we're getting close to the end, not this is all, so we can assume at the minimum, 2 more. That's 38 right there. Then we can add in unconfirmed veterans with evidence- Wario, Ice Climbers, Meta Knight, and one of the Mother boys for 42. Now we jump to speculation by adding a few Melee mainstays: Ganondorf, Game & Watch, Falco, Jigglypuff for 46. Finally, we look at Brawl and speculate: ROB, Wolf or Lucas, for 48. 47 just seems too low to me. I doubt they'd cut both Wolf and Lucas. Especially if Fire Emblem can get 4 characters. I think Star Fox is fine at 3.

 

[ihskeyp]

First, until more about her is revealed we cannot know that she is totally a Marth clone for sure, second though the leak is discredited some, I'm still uncertain Lucas is returning, and this may be just spite, but if Lucas is cut, I would like to see wolf or falco cut too.

I see maybe one of them getting cut, but both would be a really uncool for the starfox fans.

 

[Kenith]

First, until more about her is revealed we cannot know that she is totally a Marth clone for sure, second though the leak is discredited some, I'm still uncertain Lucas is returning, and this may be just spite, but if Lucas is cut, I would like to see wolf or falco cut too.

But why do you think he's cut at all?

Let us presume that Sakurai blatantly asserted that he was going to remove all clone characters and all semi-clone characters, characters that share at least half of their moves with another character on the roster. He would still have absolutely no reason to believe that those characters would be cut. Least of all, Wolf.

I thought Lucas shared more than half his moves with Ness, though.
Unless you are trying to say that he will be further differentiated from Ness in this game.

 

[Morbi]

We're at 36 characters right now. Sakurai said we're getting close to the end, not this is all, so we can assume at the minimum, 2 more. That's 38 right there. Then we can add in unconfirmed veterans with evidence- Wario, Ice Climbers, Meta Knight, and one of the Mother boys for 42. Now we jump to speculation by adding a few Melee mainstays: Ganondorf, Game & Watch, Falco, Jigglypuff for 46. Finally, we look at Brawl and speculate: ROB, Wolf or Lucas, for 48. 47 just seems too low to me. I doubt they'd cut both Wolf and Lucas. Especially if Fire Emblem can get 4 characters. I think Star Fox is fine at 3.

Star Fox was fine at three in Brawl, I am not sure why that would miraculously change. It was always irrelevant that that series was dormant, but now the opposite is true.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Honestly, people. With the obvious vets, we're up to 45. And then there's a few more newcomers. Probably 2 to 5. So that's 47-51 already. Not to mention Lucas and Wolf (characters on the chopping block) who can be back, bringing it to 49-53.

There are so many vets yet to be announced, and a few more newcomers. I think we will get a roster between 48-54. 48 being the bare minimum, of course.

 

[Morbi]

But why do you think he's cut at all?



I thought Lucas shared more than half his moves with Ness, though.
Unless you are trying to say that he will be further differentiated from Ness in this game.

I suppose it depends on what one discerns as "shared," I do believe that Lucas will be further differentiated in this game myself; however, Lucas sharing half of his moves with Ness is debatable. It depends on what is more important, the aesthetics of the move, the name of the move, or the properties of the move.

For instance, does he share PK Flash with PK Freeze? They have different names and properties, but some people count those as the same move. The better example would be PK Fire and PK Fire, they are completely different moves, but they share the same name and animation, so do we count that as a shared move? According to the Wiki, they share animations for attacks such as F-Smash, U-Air, and D-Tilt. However, they do have different properties.

Wolf does not have that problem which is why I stated, "least of all Wolf." Lucas is debatable and we cannot even be entirely sure if he is going to be a semi-clone until we see him.

 

[egaddmario]

Star Fox was fine at three in Brawl, I am not sure why that would miraculously change. It was always irrelevant that that series was dormant, but now the opposite is true.

Star Fox with 3 in Brawl bothered me only because Metroid and DK felt underrepresented (and still do). I agree that Wolf is important to the series and should've been added, it just was odd he was the final character in Brawl. Should've been ROB instead to match up with G&W's hardware representative nature.

 

[Morbi]

Honestly, people. With the obvious vets, we're up to 45. And then there's a few more newcomers. Probably 2 to 5. So that's 47-51 already. Not to mention Lucas and Wolf (characters on the chopping block) who can be back, bringing it to 49-53.

There are so many vets yet to be announced, and a few more newcomers. I think we will get a roster between 48-54. 48 being the bare minimum, of course.

Wolf is on the chopping block just about as much as Lucario or Ike are. Do you have an proof (or reason, actually) to support that assertion aside from the bandwagon appeal fallacy?

No? Did not think so.

 

[Deleted member]

Are we already forgetting today's Miiverse post? "Her physical abilities are identical to Marth's" He even went on to specify Marth's tipper strength while Lucina's sword power is spread. He also compared her to the Villager swaps and the Robin/WFT gender swaps, specifically stating she is a separate character for power/speed differences alone. I thought it was made pretty clear that she's mostly an exact clone of Marth moveset wise. But, concerning other characters, I'm expecting Wolf, Lucas, and Falco to return as well, especially due to the Lucina situation.

 

[egaddmario]

Wolf is on the chopping block just about as much as Lucario or Ike are. Do you have an proof (or reason, actually) to support that assertion aside from the bandwagon appeal fallacy?

No? Did not think so.

As soon as they announced Mega Evolutions, anyone still saying Lucario was cut had rocks in their head...

 

[?????????????]

With Toon Link staying and Lucina added, I don't see why anyone would believe Lucas and Wolf are likely cuts.

 

[Morbi]

As soon as they announced Mega Evolutions, anyone still saying Lucario was cut had rocks in their head...

I agree. Just as everyone who states that Wolf is to be omitted has "rocks in their head." There is no evidence to support this sentiment. The reasoning is not only arbitrary, but it is counter-intuitive. One cannot assert that Wolf will be cut based on his move-set as he is not a clone in the slightest (pseudo-clone at best despite the overt change in character direction from composed Wolf to primal Wolf). The dormant series argument used to be bad based on the notion that he was already a Brawl veteran, but it is impossible to assert that one any longer. Wolf is safe, period.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Godzillathewonderdog makes a good point about Mewtwo, if hypothetically Pokémon were to have 5 only, Mewtwo would probably be chosen over her for marketing purposes, same with Lucina getting in over Roy now due to her current popularity.
If Sakurai is pushing for today's marketing, veteran franchises that hadn't had a game for years will probably be reduced to one or two, such as Earthbound or Star Fox, I believe now they are going to push for franchises with new installments for Sakurai to add characters like Dixie Kong and Dark Pit (in addition for filler).
Maybe that's why in the Gematsu leak (which I find to still be a somewhat reliable source), Lucas was considered to likely get cut. I think it's clear to me now.

 

[egaddmario]

I agree. Just as everyone who states that Wolf is to be omitted has "rocks in their head." There is no evidence to support this sentiment. The reasoning is not only arbitrary, but it is counter-intuitive. One cannot assert that Wolf will be cut based on his move-set as he is not a clone in the slightest (pseudo-clone at best despite the overt change in character direction from composed Wolf to primal Wolf). The dormant series argument used to be bad based on the notion that he was already a Brawl veteran, but it is impossible to assert that one any longer. Wolf is safe, period.

Wolf is less of a clone than Falco. People seems to forget there's more to a character than Specials....

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

From now on, I'm always guessing that the next veteran reveal is Lucas.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Wolf is on the chopping block just about as much as Lucario or Ike are. Do you have an proof (or reason, actually) to support that assertion aside from the bandwagon appeal fallacy?

No? Did not think so.

I think the better comparison would've been "Toon Link", instead of completely unique characters. And yes, Toon Link's not unique, but Sakurai has already stated the importance of a second, child Link. Until any evidence comes forward about how Sakurai sizes the importance of those characters, I feel like they, along with the rest of the clones, are on the bottom of the totem pole. I just think that the Brawl clones would be cut in favor of the Melee clones (if they ever have to). IFFFFFFF (AND I SAY IF) there has to be cuts, they would be on the bottom.

And also, cut with the catty ****. No one wants to hear you talk down to people with a different belief system than you.

 

[Weeman]

I agree. Just as everyone who states that Wolf is to be omitted has "rocks in their head." There is no evidence to support this sentiment. The reasoning is not only arbitrary, but it is counter-intuitive. One cannot assert that Wolf will be cut based on his move-set as he is not a clone in the slightest (pseudo-clone at best despite the overt change in character direction from composed Wolf to primal Wolf). The dormant series argument used to be bad based on the notion that he was already a Brawl veteran, but it is impossible to assert that one any longer. Wolf is safe, period.

Considering Sakurai apparently wanted Wolf in since Melee, the fact that Lucina proves that he doesn't mind almost full clones, and that he isn't even near being a full clone to Fox, as well as being one of the most prominent figures in Star Fox itself, i don't see much reason to cut Wolf unless Sakurai considers him low priority or some other arbitrary reason we don't know.

 

[Morbi]

Wolf is less of a clone than Falco. People seems to forget there's more to a character than Specials....

Correct. But no one advocates for Falco's removal. Why might that be? Because it is not logical or rational in the slightest. Wolf is a victim of circumstance because people do not appreciate the amount of characters the series has.

 

[Andinus]

But why do you think he's cut at all?



I thought Lucas shared more than half his moves with Ness, though.
Unless you are trying to say that he will be further differentiated from Ness in this game.

Because of what was leaked about him or ness being cut, and it probably being him.

 

[Kenith]

I clearly was not satisfied with my previous roster. I'm already making a new one...

 

[Morbi]

Considering Sakurai apparently wanted Wolf in since Melee, the fact that Lucina proves that he doesn't mind almost full clones, and that he isn't even near being a full clone to Fox, as well as being one of the most prominent figures in Star Fox itself, i don't see much reason to cut Wolf unless Sakurai considers him low priority or some other arbitrary reason we don't know.

Toon Link was proof of that prior, Lucina is just the nail in the coffin.

I think the better comparison would've been "Toon Link", instead of completely unique characters. And yes, Toon Link's not unique, but Sakurai has already stated the importance of a second, child Link. Until any evidence comes forward about how Sakurai sizes the importance of those characters, I feel like they, along with the rest of the clones, are on the bottom of the totem pole. I just think that the Brawl clones would be cut in favor of the Melee clones (if they ever have to). IFFFFFFF (AND I SAY IF) there has to be cuts, they would be on the bottom.

And also, cut with the catty ****. No one wants to hear you talk down to people with a different belief system than you.

Wolf is a completely unique character. Regardless, those examples were just the common ones that I heard. Fortunately, Toon Link was revealed quite early, he also proved my previous assertions that clone-status is irrelevant.

Lastly, I will not "cut it with the catty ****." If you cannot support your arguments, I am going to call you out on it. You have yet to provide a feasible reason other than your arbitrary opinion. No one wants to hear you state that a character is on a chopping block "just because."

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I feel like the slew of "I was wrong" threads is just beginning...

 

[ihskeyp]

Because of what was leaked about him or ness being cut, and it probably being him.

Well considering the Gematsu leak has been proven to not be completely correct, and the roster being finalized like a year ago, I completely don't believe that part of the leak.

 

[Weeman]

Toon Link was proof of that prior, Lucina is just the nail in the coffin.

True, but i don't consider him as much due to Sakurai saying that a Child Link is needed, wich could have explained it if he was the only clone, so i think Lucina is the one who proved the "no clones" argument dull.

 

[Kenith]

Because of what was leaked about him or ness being cut, and it probably being him.

That part of the leak said there would be Chrom. There was no Chrom. There is, however, a Lucina, who is a clone.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Lastly, I will not "cut it with the catty ****." If you cannot support your arguments, I am going to call you out on it. You have yet to provide a feasible reason other than your arbitrary opinion. No one wants to hear you state that a character is on a chopping block "just because."

Only I did provide reason as to why they would be on the chopping block IF cuts had to be made. And even then, it's all speculation, so I don't think it's fair to have someone look down on someone else for their opinion, since speculation is essentially all in perspective. I could be wrong, and I could be right, so I'm just looking at possibilities, and using reason to support my claim. Frankly, I'm done with you acting like you're better than everyone.

 

[Andinus]

I see maybe one of them getting cut, but both would be a really uncool for the starfox fans.

I don't think they would both be cut, my whole thing is, why does mother, and Lucas deserve to get shafted, presumably for clone/ relevancy reasons, and star fox gets to keep all their semi-pseudo clones, and I get that wolf is not that much of a clone, but he is one of the space animals and has a similar enough structure to fox and falco, so like I said it might be just spite but if Lucas has to go, I think falco or wolf should go too.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Before I say anything stupid, I'm going to drop this now. I've given what I can say (again, my perspective) is logical proof. If anyone doesn't agree with me, that's fine, but I'm not going to get into an argument about it.

 

[Morbi]

That part of the leak said there would be Chrom. There was no Chrom. There is, however, a Lucina, who is a clone.

That does not necessarily make that entire portion of the leak false.

Only I did provide reason as to why they would be on the chopping block IF cuts had to be made. And even then, it's all speculation, so I don't think it's fair to have someone look down on someone else for their opinion, since speculation is essentially all in perspective. I could be wrong, and I could be right, so I'm just looking at possibilities, and using reason to support my claim. Frankly, I'm done with you acting like you're better than everyone.

No, you did not. You asserted that your "reason" was that Brawl clones would go before Melee clones. Wolf is not a Brawl clone. That is not subject to debate as he has an entirely unique move-set aside from his reflector and Final Smash.

Also, what Melee "clones" are you referring to? Falco.

Nice. So basically your reason was: if if if if if we HAD to have a cut, it would be Wolf because Falco was in Melee. This contradicts your BS assertion that he was on the chopping block..

 

[Kenith]

That does not necessarily make that entire portion of the leak false.

Come on Morbid, why are you arguing against and with me at the same time?

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm not going to reply. Not out of malice or a lack of argument, but simply because I see myself getting frustrated and I think it'd be best if I bite my tongue.

EDIT: And I was also referring to Ganondorf, who is a clone of Captain Falcon. I think being a staple to the series and being there longer holds some merit.

 

[Andinus]

Well considering the Gematsu leak has been proven to not be completely correct, and the roster being finalized like a year ago, I completely don't believe that part of the leak.

I do hope you are right, I would like to see just 3 cuts and believe in 49 + random roster. for now though, until more info comes our way I'm going to continue to hold back expectations as I always have.

 

[Morbi]

Come on Morbid, why are you arguing against and with me at the same time?

I have to deal in objective fact. The fact of the matter is that that entire portion of the leak was not entirely refuted. It was contested. The only notion that can be indefinitely observed, is that Chrom is not in the game. That proves that Chrom was fabricated or altered by Sakurai before the roster was finalized. It does not indicate that the leak is false.

I'm not going to reply. Not out of malice or a lack of argument, but simply because I see myself getting frustrated and I think it'd be best if I bite my tongue.

I agree. It just bothers me that you state that you are dealing in logic when you cite an arbitrary reason that is not even relevant to Wolf.

 

[BluePikmin11]

To sum up the paragraph I made, I think Lucas and Wolf (and possibly Jigglypuff) are going to get cut in favor of relevant characters (for veteran franchises) like (Mewtwo), Dark Pit, and Dixie. Moveset-based reasons are probably not the reasons they are getting cut though.

 

[TumblrFamous]

There are some things that I'm bothered with by you as well, but I truly think it's best to just drop it. To be honest, half of it is most likely opinion. I mean, I don't think anyone can ever have a prediction without some bias. And this is from a Lucas main. So, yeah, I think some is my prediction, and I will not be sad if they return, I just think they could be if we have cuts, simply due to the fact that they are the newest to the series, from Brawl, and would leave over staple clones like, say, Falco and Ganondorf.

And yes, I know Wolf is not a full-on clone, but I do believe sharing generally the same set of special moves, just reworked, and a similar final smash implies that they used Fox as a base, in my opinion.

 

[Morbi]

I'm not going to reply. Not out of malice or a lack of argument, but simply because I see myself getting frustrated and I think it'd be best if I bite my tongue.

EDIT: And I was also referring to Ganondorf, who is a clone of Captain Falcon. I think being a staple to the series and being there longer holds some merit.

Ah, I see. I apologize for misconstruing that sentiment. I fail to see why that directly pertains to Wolf's chance. Perhaps it would have been better for you to just state that Wolf is the most likely cut and leave it at that. You do not have the burden of supporting that notion as it is subjective.

To sum up the paragraph I made, I think Lucas and Wolf (and possibly Jigglypuff) are going to get cut in favor of relevant characters (for veteran franchises) like (Mewtwo), Dark Pit, and Dixie. Moveset-based reasons are probably not the reasons they are getting cut though.

I certainly hope not. I would rather the Melee approach where he decides to skip a newcomer for a couple of clones.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Ah, I see. I apologize for misconstruing that sentiment. I fail to see why that directly pertains to Wolf's chance. Perhaps it would have been better for you to just state that Wolf is the most likely cut and leave it at that. You do not have the burden of supporting that notion as it is subjective.

Let's just agree to disagree. It's not like I'd be bitter with Lucas and Wolf back.