Character Discussion Thread

[?????????????]

not when he was extremely popular and relevant.

Mewtwo's always been extremely popular and relevant.

 

[Kenith]

Mewtwo's always been extremely popular and relevant.

Not exactly true.

He was popular at the time of Brawl, but he wasn't really relevant.

 

[?????????????]

Not exactly true.

He was popular at the time of Brawl, but he wasn't really relevant.

More popular and relevant than Jigglypuff.

 

[Kenith]

More popular and relevant than Jigglypuff.

Perhaps, but Jigglypuff was in Smash 64, so there's that.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I was under the belief that Mewtwo wasn't really popular around Brawl, him being displaced by Arceus as the strongest Pokemon.

But now, all spotlights are back on the psychic Pokemon.

 

[chronomantic]

More popular and relevant than Jigglypuff.

Apparently not in Smash since she has a perfect attendance record. At least she brings something different in Smash from the Pokemon group.

 

[Bowserlick]

I like Jigglypuff as a character.

There is room for her and Mewtwo (and a fully-evolved grass starter).

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Mewtwo's always been extremely popular and relevant.

Sure, but not as much, and he wasn't in the limelight like he is now. Game Freak and the Pokemon company had no reason to push for his inclusion, because they were doing nothing with him, now they're doing so much with him, you'd have to think they'd push really hard for him to be in the game, we know that they play a big part of deciding who gets in and we know that they always go for the big popular Pokemon at the time and someone from the newest games, which Greninja wasn't big at the time of the making of the game he was added to rep the newest games, It makes sense for Mewtwo to be there as the big popular Pokemon at the time.

 

[Xenorange]

Apparently not in Smash since she has a perfect attendance record. At least she brings something different in Smash from the Pokemon group.

and mewtwo doesn't? Are you one of those "Mewtwo and Lucario have similar neutral B's so therefore are the same character" people?

 

[Kenith]

At least she brings something different in Smash from the Pokemon group.

I wouldn't go that far. Mewtwo is a plenty unique character, and I'm pretty sure Jigglypuff was originally included in 64 as a semi-clone of Kirby. At the very least, she was a heavily modified version of Kirby.

 

[?????????????]

Well, see, now people are defending Jigglypuff on the basis of being a veteran. This entire conversation started as a "why can Mewtwo not replace Jigglypuff?"

You've all answered it yourselves. Why would Mewtwo replace Jigglypuff now if he didn't before?

 

[Xenorange]

Well, see, now people are defending Jigglypuff on the basis of being a veteran. This entire conversation started as a "why can Mewtwo not replace Jigglypuff?"

You've all answered it yourselves. Why would Mewtwo replace Jigglypuff now if he didn't before?

Popularity, relevance and diversity.

 

[Rockaphin]

Apparently not in Smash since she has a perfect attendance record. At least she brings something different in Smash from the Pokemon group.

Jigglypuff and Kirby had similarities back in Smash 64. I didn't notice it at first but taking another look, it's true.
I honestly think Mewtwo brought more to the table.

 

[PlTe]

Jiggly ain't going anywhere. She's been a staple to the series.

 

[N3ON]

I'll remind ya

You'll remind me to make fun of you?

Hey, whatever floats your boat.

Even supposing it is a legit leak, if one character could be changed in development, then why not another? Or two?

I'm not saying they couldn't be, I'm just saying it's fairly unlikely considering this is the first and only example of a character being changed from the leak, which has been fairly accurate in the past. I don't think that's disregarding anything, if anything removing both Shulk and a RH character from a roster is disregarding the accuracy of the past claims. I'm not saying it's without a doubt going to be Chorus Men, but Sakurai doesn't willy-nilly include a new series in Smash, there's a lot of content that comes with it, and removing one of those characters would be different than swapping out one character from an existing series for another. If there was another Xenoblade character on par with Shulk I'd say it could be them instead, but I'm fairly certain we'll still be getting both a Xenoblade and a Rhythm Heaven character. And I don't think the leak is gospel, but I do think there's enough reason and precedence to expect the last two claims in some form.

Don't get me wrong, I like Shulk and I'm intrigued by the Chorus Kids. But it feels very strange to completely disregard evidence on ether side, both the successes and failures. The first half of the leak, Megaman, Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Little Mac, Pacman, and Miis, were all supposed to be announced at E3 2013. Even if you want to claim that the leaker was saying only E3, Little Mac breaks this trend. This means either the leak was a *very* lucky guess, or more likely the leaker is not being 100% truthful.

...but that's not the important part. It's an aspect of the leak that didn't pan out, yes... but all the characters claimed in the first batch how now been confirmed. What was wrong definitely doesn't outweigh what was right, especially considering how much of a long shot some of those characters were.

The second batch of characters reeks more of this; a Pokemon from X/Y is so vague and impossible to prove false that it's hardly worth considering a single bit of attention. Palutena at the time had a very convincing set of leaked photos, prompting everyone and their dog to assume she was in. I consider neither of them impressive as prediction; part two on it's own has very little in terms of actual merit, it's entirely trusted on the (somewhat incredible) strength of part 1. But especially with Chrom no longer in there, and the leaker claiming or *heavily implying* Shulk was the next to be announced, I find that there is no reason to believe they are telling the truth, *regardless* of their actual connections to Nintendo. If they do have legitimate information about Smash, which I do not doubt, then it is likely outdated and definitely mixed with false information, perhaps to keep the Nintendo Legal team from sneaking into the leaker's house in the night and pulling a Mario on their kneecaps.

1. No one was even expecting an X/Y Pokemon to be revealed, so it wasn't like that was some generally popular pick. Plus later Sakurai confirmed that the slot was decided before the character was, which supports the vagueness of the info.
2. People assumed Palutena was going to be in long before the leak pics. She was expected and wanted and she got in, how can that be a point against the leak? Should it have omitted the popular characters who were still gonna get in regardless of whether they were leaked? That would only hurt the leak's credibility.
3. The leaked info came from before Greninja was decided upon, so it's pretty outdated by now, which can explain why there are changes to it, but it doesn't discredit the entirety of the leak, only re-affirms it shouldn't be believed to the word and unquestionably.
4. Yeah, he was wrong about Shulk. Then again he was also wrong about the E3 timeframe as well. I don't think anyone is pretending the leak has always been 100% correct, but it has been correct enough in the past over almost everything that dismissing it now because of one change seems a little short-sighted. There's still a fairly good reason to believe we'll be getting Shulk and a RH character, even if that reason isn't as strong as before.

Basically, I agree that it shouldn't be followed blindly, as not everything is correct, but the track record is good enough, especially regarding the characters, that it'd still probably be in peoples' best interest to keep the expectation of Shulk and at least a RH character alive.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I like Jigglypuff as a character.

There is room for her and Mewtwo (and a fully-evolved grass starter).

I posted this when the Sceptile thread was in its infancy, figured it should be seen again:


So I know next to nothing about Pokemon, but I did a little studying of the types in the Trading Card game.

Here are some of the types and the confirmed characters in each one. (Feel free to correct me on any wrong)

Grass: (to be filled out)

Fire: Charizard, Mega Charizard X

Water: Greninja

Lightning: Pikachu

Fighting: Lucario

Psychic: (to be filled out)

Colorless: Charizard

Darkness: Greninja

Metal: Lucario

Dragon: Mega Charizard X

Fairy: (to be filled out)

In order to fill out the Grass, Psychic, and Fairy types, a Grass Starter, Mewtwo, and Jigglypuff would be the most likely candidates to cover all the basic types.

 

[Rockaphin]

Jiggly ain't going anywhere. She's been a staple to the series.

Supposedly, Lucas had a chance to replace Ness. It didn't happen, but the thought is what counts. Now, I know this was a while back, but the same thought could possibly happen. And this is if it came down to the two.

 

[?????????????]

Popularity, relevance and diversity.

But see, that doesn't work. Mewtwo has always been more popular and relevant than Jigglypuff.

Where does diversity even fit into this? Mewtwo is a Psychic type, Jigglypuff is a Fairy type. Both are diverse.

 

[TylerBlackRunIt]

My Update Roster

@Diddy Kong I think Impa have a good chance to be playable...

 

[Xenorange]

You'll remind me to make fun of you?

Hey, whatever floats your boat.


I'm not saying they couldn't be, I'm just saying it's fairly unlikely considering this is the first and only example of a character being changed from the leak, which has been fairly accurate in the past. I don't think that's disregarding anything, if anything removing both Shulk and a RH character from a roster is disregarding the accuracy of the past claims. I'm not saying it's without a doubt going to be Chorus Men, but Sakurai doesn't willy-nilly include a new series in Smash, there's a lot of content that comes with it, and removing one of those characters would be different than swapping out one character from an existing series for another. If there was another Xenoblade character on par with Shulk I'd say it could be them instead, but I'm fairly certain we'll still be getting both a Xenoblade and a Rhythm Heaven character. And I don't think the leak is gospel, but I do think there's enough reason and precedence to expect the last two claims in some form.


...but that's not the important part. It's an aspect of the leak that didn't pan out, yes... but all the characters claimed in the first batch how now been confirmed. What was wrong definitely doesn't outweigh what was right, especially considering how much of a long shot some of those characters were.


1. No one was even expecting an X/Y Pokemon to be revealed, so it wasn't like that was some generally popular pick. Plus later Sakurai confirmed that the slot was decided before the character was, which supports the vagueness of the info.
2. People assumed Palutena was going to be in long before the leak pics. She was expected and wanted and she got in, how can that be a point against the leak? Should it have omitted the popular characters who were still gonna get in regardless of whether they were leaked? That would only hurt the leak's credibility.
3. The leaked info came from before Greninja was decided upon, so it's pretty outdated by now, which can explain why there are changes to it, but it doesn't discredit the entirety of the leak, only re-affirms it shouldn't be believed to the word and unquestionably.
4. Yeah, he was wrong about Shulk. Then again he was also wrong about the E3 timeframe as well. I don't think anyone is pretending the leak has always been 100% correct, but it has been correct enough in the past over almost everything that dismissing it now because of one change seems a little short-sighted. There's still a fairly good reason to believe we'll be getting Shulk and a RH character, even if that reason isn't as strong as before.

Basically, I agree that it shouldn't be followed blindly, as not everything is correct, but the track record is good enough, especially regarding the characters, that it'd still probably be in peoples' best interest to keep the expectation of Shulk and at least a RH character alive.

Even if the information is just outdated, that still makes it unreliable. I still say it's dead.

 

[chronomantic]

and mewtwo doesn't? Are you one of those "Mewtwo and Lucario have similar neutral B's so therefore are the same character" people?

Compared to Mewtwo yes, and more so if Lucario is already in.

 

[Rockaphin]

Anyone else see this? Sorry if this has already been posted:
http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/full-3ds-smash-roster-revealed-august-12th/

 

[Bowserlick]

I would not equate unreliable with dead.

An unreliable mechanic would possibly be able to fix your car, but a dead one cannot.

I think we will get Shulk. But if there is a Rhythm Heaven character (which I think there is), it may be someone that is not the Chorus Men.

 

[Kenith]

View attachment 18302
My Update Roster

@Diddy Kong I think Impa have a good chance to be playable...

You are automatically a cool dude for including Ridley, Snake, and a Zelda newcomer.

 

[PlTe]

I would not equate unreliable with dead.

An unreliable mechanic would possibly be able to fix your car, but a dead one cannot.

I think we will get Shulk. But if there is a Rhythm Heaven character (which I think there is), it may be someone that is not the Chorus Men.

If it's anyone but Chorus Men, it's Marshall, with a possible Rhythm Heaven Girl alt.

 

[Xenorange]

But see, that doesn't work. Mewtwo has always been more popular and relevant than Jigglypuff.

Where does diversity even fit into this? Mewtwo is a Psychic type, Jigglypuff is a Fairy type. Both are diverse.

As many have stated before me, Puff is rather similar to Kirby. Mewtwo isn't really similar to anyone. He levitates around, he teleports, he has weird psychic command grab things. He's all around more interesting IMO.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

Might as well share my prediction roster:

I carefully considered the positioning of characters on the demo rosters. I think it's a safe assumption that they're positioned so that the final roster will end up in even rows. Here's some expelnation:

Dixie Kong: Not really sure about this one to be honest. I definitely think that DK will get another rep, especially considering FE got 2 more. It might be King K, it might be Dixie. Right now I'm leaning towards Dixie, but it can easily go either way.

Ridley: I think we all know the arguments for Ridley at this point. However, one of my major reasons for including him is the trophy quiz theory.

Ghirahim: Again, the trophy quiz theory is a huge reason for his inclusion. I also think that Zelda deserves a newcomer.

Marshal: The Gematsu leak definitely still holds some weight. While I think the Chorus Men were dropped at some point, especially because Sakurai said he was having trouble with getting the Ice Climbers to work on the 3DS, it seems that there will indeed be a Rhythm Heaven rep. I'm not too familiar with the series, but I think that the Rhythm Heaven rep will be someone that doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a fighting game.

Shulk: Again, I still think Gematsu has some truth to it.

I've heard that the Mii Fighters will be replacing the Random button when customization is turned on, but I'm not sure how true that is. If that isn't the case, I think R.O.B. might be cut. If that is the case, I definitely think that the Wii U roster will end up being completely rectangular with no room to add in the Mii Fighters without replacing the random button. Either way, that gives us 18 newcomers counting the Mii Fighters as separate characters, which I think is a reasonable amount.

 

[?????????????]

As many have stated before me, Puff is rather similar to Kirby. Mewtwo isn't really similar to anyone. He levitates around, he teleports, he has weird psychic command grab things. He's all around more interesting IMO.

The ability to fly suddenly makes Jigglypuff too similar to Kirby?

 

[Maxilian]

Anyone else see this? Sorry if this has already been posted:
http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/full-3ds-smash-roster-revealed-august-12th/

Yes, that's old (not that old) news

 

[OptimistNic]

I'm sorry, I was on MemeBase when I saw this image, and I HAVE to put it up. XD

 

[N3ON]

Even if the information is just outdated, that still makes it unreliable. I still say it's dead.

Being unreliable doesn't make it dead. Dead rumors should just be completely disregarded, and this leak should not be completely disregarded even if it's not entirely credible.

This isn't your typical black or white rumor that either is real or fake... this is a leak that has become outdated but still has proven accurate in the past, and still could prove to be accurate in the future. Just don't treat it as gospel, treat it as information that once was valid and might still be, even if it also might not be.

Anyway, this leak validity discussion isn't what this thread is for.

 

[Kenith]

The ability to fly suddenly makes Jigglypuff too similar to Kirby?

It's more than just the flying
From the Smash Wiki

• "Both share similar forward smashes, down smashes, neutral aerials, forward aerials (Kirby's hits multiple times, but he extends both legs in front of him as does Jigglypuff), down aerials, tilts, back throws, item animations, and ledge animations. Both also have near identical physics, with similar size, shape, weight, falling speed, and both possess five midair jumps. Their special moves, however, are all completely different."

 

[Xenorange]

Compared to Mewtwo yes, and more so if Lucario is already in.

What exactly makes her more unique than Mewtwo? I see you are one of those people. I guess if we give Mario a chargeable fireball he suddenly becomes a Mewtwo clone. Ridiculous.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Am I the only one who've always wanted Clefairy/Clefable in Smash 64 over Jiggs?

 

[Staarih]

Am I the only one who've always wanted Clefairy/Clefable in Smash 64 over Jiggs?

If Clefairy had become the official mascot of Pokémon like intended, then that would've probably happened. Though I guess it would've replaced Pikachu in that case. Oh well.

I still think Meowth should have been the way to go back then.

 

[Twin Shot]

Does the Mii Fighter Replace the Random spot ONLY in online mode?

 

[PlTe]

I'm sorry, I was on MemeBase when I saw this image, and I HAVE to put it up. XD

HA! LOL

Nah but I don't think it's gonna happen this time around.
If we get a new Metroid rep, I'd prefer to see Sylux over Ridley.

And for a new Zelda rep, good GOD I do not want to see Ghirahim. I f**king hate Skyward Sword and he's just a stupid character. There are SO MANY other Zelda villains you can have instead of Ghirahim. F**king put in Vaati, or Beast Ganon. Or Impa. Put Impa in.

This guy. Put him in. I'd rather have him over Ghirahim.

It's not even, like...ugh..
I'll take Groose even! Put in Groose! What I said about Skyward Sword being the issue, I lied. No Ghirahim plz.

 

[Shorts]

Pokemon can only be SO relevent. Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are both relevent. Mewtwo had a movie a year ago, and some new forms. Jigglpuff gained a new typing, and was in Brawl. They're both relevent. In terms of Smash, I would say a returning veteran is more relevant than a cut character.

 

[chronomantic]

What exactly makes her more unique than Mewtwo? I see you are one of those people. I guess if we give Mario a chargeable fireball he suddenly becomes a Mewtwo clone. Ridiculous.

She's cuter.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't put Doctor Mario as a clone, i would prefer to have him as an alternative costum, he's not like Lucina (by that i mean... that he's Mario, not even different character like Paper Mario or Toon Link)

You're joking, right?
Paper Mario is just as much Mario as Dr. Mario is. At least Dr. Mario is an actual alter ego while "Paper Mario" is just Mario in the paper artstyle.
Toon Link? He's Link in the carTOON artstyle established in multiple Zelda games.
Oh, you're going to use the "different incarnation" logic? Well, not only is that flawed given that all Links are reincarnations of the same individual as established in Skyward Sword, but Smash treats all Links as a single individual as evident as Toon Link being "Link as he appeared in The Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass" in Brawl.