Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

Let's have the Creator from F-Zero playable. If it weren't for them the world of F-Zero wouldn't exist.

You want a clone of Captain Falcon that's more of a clone than Ganondorf is?

 

[Radical Bones]

On the Ghirahim debate - I love this character, and if you've played Skyward Sword you know how great his personality is and how, in terms of characterisation, he's more than a Zant or Midna. That being said, in the Zelda series as a whole, there are characters who are more well known. If he returns in Zelda Wii U, I can see him in this game. If not, there are other reps who come before him in my books.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Ghirahim technically starts the entire franchise, and one shot villains play a big part in Zelda

and ike is not a big part of fire emblem at all, especially when he was in brawl,

Ghirahim is my preferred Zelda Newcomer Candidate, but I find this to be a rather poor argument for his inclusion. The canon of a given series doesn't have much bearing in Smash. Case in point being how the Zelda cast retains their Twilight Princess designs despite Skyward Sword being the most recent console Zelda game.

The Zelda series has its core characters by this point. You have the Triforce Trio (Link, Zelda(/Sheik), Ganondorf), who cover the main/supporting/antagonist cast (Ganon being represented via The Dorf's FS***), and Toon Link, who represents the Toonverse Zelda titles.

Any further Zelda Newcomer constitutes a bonus at this point. What Ghirahim has going for him is his prominent role in the most recent console Zelda (which has already been represented in SSB4 by the Skyloft stage and the Beetle item), his aesthetic style and personality being an easy fit into SSB4's more vibrant palette, and a diverse inherent moveset (teleport, diamond barriers, floating kunais, black sword, skin armor, counters, etc.).

The other prominent contenders - Tetra, Vaati, Tingle - appear in more individual games than Ghirahim. And they each have their own merits in turn. At this point, the one worth supporting is the one you personally prefer the most, since a Zelda Newcomer is by no means guaranteed (and there's no way of measuring just who Sakurai might select).

***It'd be nice if TP Ganon was replaced by Classic Ganon or something.

On the Ghirahim debate - I love this character, and if you've played Skyward Sword you know how great his personality is and how, in terms of characterisation, he's more than a Zant or Midna. That being said, in the Zelda series as a whole, there are characters who are more well known. If he returns in Zelda Wii U, I can see him in this game. If not, there are other reps who come before him in my books.

Given Ghirahim's role in SS, it's improbable that we'll see him again unless a future Zelda game takes place prior to the timeframe of SS.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Also, Jump Man and Paula should be playable

Mario is playable already bro

and paula being a one shot damsel when peach does that for 17 games is no where being a one shot villain when only two villains appear in multiple games

edit: I just argued his importants to his franchise, not that because of his franchise he should be in

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm actually putting Tetra in my next roster (which has a snazzy new look.)

I'm posting it tomorrow. I still put Toon Zelda's name next to her in case Sakurai sees it important to have her alongside her. While in my opinion Vaati is the next most important, you could definitely argue Tetra is. Several appearances, popularity, important role, and relevance.

Ghirahim technically starts the entire franchise

This makes him important why? By your logic there should be Farore, Din, and Nayru trio as a playable character.

What does canonically being responsible for the plot or role of other characters (now, but not before) have to do with anything? This is suppose to make you important?

What about Ness's mom? She gave birth to him. She technically started the story of Mother 2.

 

[Deleted member]

No, Paula's from Earthbound as one of Ness' friends.

Pauline is the original damsel of distress of Mario.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

You want a clone of Captain Falcon that's more of a clone than Ganondorf is?

EVERYONE SHOULD BE A CAPTAIN FALCON CLONE! Except for Little Mac, because it would just be ridiculous having him use attacks outside of punching.

 

[Lasifer]

What about Ness's mom? She gave birth to him. She technically started the story of Mother 2.

No, no, no. George should be playable, because despite never being even seen in the game, he brought PSI to Earth which caused Giygas to invade. He caused the entire Mother storyline to unfold.
Totally legit reason to put in a character in.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

edit: I just argued his importants to his franchise, not that because of his franchise he should be in

Even then. That's just like arguing that Ninten's mom is important to the EarthBound franchise.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Tom Nook should be in, if it weren't for him you wouldn't have a place to live.

 

[Bowserlick]

Little Mac should have a move where he pretends to be exciting, but then punches.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Mario is playable already bro

and paula being a one shot damsel when peach does that for 17 games is no where being a one shot villain when only two villains appear in multiple games

edit: I just argued his importants to his franchise, not that because of his franchise he should be in

Ghirahim certainly has a significant role to play in early Zeldaverse history. He was to Demise as Fi was to Hylia, and his antics after Demise's imprisonment informed the trajectory of Link's entire journey (which ultimately led to the defeat of Demise).

In my view, however, the most important character in terms of impact to the series would be Demise, since he cast the Triune Curse that would evermore bound incarnations of Link-Zelda-Ganon in a cycle of recurring entanglement (which retroactively impacts a majority of the Zelda games).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Little Mac should have a move where he pretends to be exciting, but then punches.

But he actually is an exciting character.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I think Charlie should be in the game. I made a support thread here: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-king-of-swing-charlie-for-ssb4.348358/

 

[JamesDNaux]

Some newly updated visuals, mainly Moon's hnnnng K. Rool render. It's just so damn goood.

If anyone has any better (preferably transparent) images of Ridley, Palutena, Chrom, Ike, or Lip, I would love you long time be very grateful.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ghirahim certainly has a significant role to play in early Zeldaverse history. He was to Demise as Fi was to Hylia, and his antics after Demise's imprisonment informed the trajectory of Link's entire journey (which ultimately led to the defeat of Demise).

In my view, however, the most important character in terms of impact to the series would be Demise, since he cast the Triune Curse that would evermore bound incarnations of Link-Zelda-Ganon in a cycle of recurring entanglement (which retroactively impacts a majority of the Zelda games).

That sounds more like it's important to the canon origins than the actual series.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Some newly updated visuals, mainly Moon's hnnnng K. Rool render. It's just so damn goood.

If anyone has any better (preferably transparent) images of Ridley, Palutena, Chrom, Ike, or Lip, I would love you long time be very grateful.

Is it just me, or is Chrom blushing?

Looks like he's chroming his pants hahahaha tell me that I'm funny

That sounds more like it's important to the canon origins than the actual series.

I guess you could say that. The events of Skyward Sword (retroactively) explain why Link, Zelda, and some variation of Ganon repeatedly appear throughout the series across various time periods (and timelines).

So Demise has a ton of canon importance (which was my main point), though via a little retconning, his actions influence every Zelda game that have Ganon(dorf)*** in them.

If you consider "importance" as a measure of active impact across the games, then the Triforce Trio are at the top, followed by Vaati as a recurring antagonist, Tetra as a recurring supporting character, Ghirahim and other-one off characters as central to the games they appear, and finally Tingle, who, while recurring, has a minimal role in the Zelda series proper.

***Malladus from Spirit Tracks counts as an incarnation of Demise, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

James almost perfect roster. It's safe as **** (no Isaac or Shulk? Guess you gotta cut corners somewhere) and that's why I love it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Some newly updated visuals, mainly Moon's hnnnng K. Rool render. It's just so damn goood.

If anyone has any better (preferably transparent) images of Ridley, Palutena, Chrom, Ike, or Lip, I would love you long time be very grateful.

Would not agree that we'd be getting 4 Donkey Kong characters, 4 clones of Fox (one of which is pretty insignificant to the series), or a semi-clone of Marth who's only significance is advertising.

I would add Robin considering the tactician is likely going to be a recurring thing now. Also I think it's important to give additions to different franchises in new installments. All you have is Kid Icarus, and I would recommend adding Samurai Goroh to F-Zero. He's a moderately popular/iconic Nintendo character who is incredibly important to the franchise.

Also I agree there will be two retros considering Sakurai wants to add more older characters, and while Lip is the best choice imo, we will probably be getting an international retro at least. (then again Lip was in Planet Puzzle League.)

And how dare you call Wii Fit Trainer a misfit

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Even though I know most of it will be about me not having a third Fire Emblem character I would still like some feedback.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Even though I know most of it will be about me not having a third Fire Emblem character I would still like some feedback.

I don't think Shulk is very important. That's not even a major Nintendo franchise. Muddy Mole...I'd probably expect Mach Rider over him.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Does anyone else find it unlikely that we will get both Lip and Takumaru? I mean why would we have two retro Japan only characters? I don't see that really happening.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Would not agree that we'd be getting 4 Donkey Kong characters, 4 clones of Fox (one of which is pretty insignificant to the series), or a semi-clone of Marth who's only significance is advertising.

I would add Robin considering the tactician is likely going to be a recurring thing now. Also I think it's important to give additions to different franchises in new installments. All you have is Kid Icarus, and I would recommend adding Samurai Goroh to F-Zero. He's a moderately popular/iconic Nintendo character who is incredibly important to the franchise.

Also I agree there will be two retros considering Sakurai wants to add more older characters, and while Lip is the best choice imo, we will probably be getting an international retro at least. (then again Lip was in Planet Puzzle League.)

And how dare you call Wii Fit Trainer a misfit

Three Mario and Zelda characters in Melee, two Kirby characters in Brawl. DK is more than deserving enough.

Also, where the hell do you see four clones of Fox? Unless someone that isn't from Star Fox is a clone, you're counting Fox as a clone of himself. And did you just call Krystal a clone? The whole point of her staff is that she's completely different from the other Star Fox characters.

Chrom is playing it safe, I don't care about Fire Emblem anymore at this point. And just adding an F-Zero character isn't "equalizing franchises" I'm not adding Goroh just for the sake of adding an F-Zero character. Just Kid Icarus? Mario, DK, Metroid, Star Fox, Pokemon (sort of), and Fire Emblem would like to say hello.

Lip isn't even retro, they are still making Puzzle League games, Lip has just been absent from them.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Three Mario and Zelda characters in Melee, two Kirby characters in Brawl. DK is more than deserving enough.

Also, where the hell do you see four clones of Fox? Unless someone that isn't from Star Fox is a clone, you're counting Fox as a clone of himself. And did you just call Krystal a clone? The whole point of her staff is that she's completely different from the other Star Fox characters.

Chrom is playing it safe, I don't care about Fire Emblem anymore at this point. And just adding an F-Zero character isn't "equalizing franchises" I'm not adding Goroh just for the sake of adding an F-Zero character. Just Kid Icarus? Mario, DK, Metroid, Star Fox, Pokemon (sort of), and Fire Emblem would like to say hello.

Lip isn't even retro, they are still making Puzzle League games, Lip has just been absent from them.

You asked for feedback. Don't be rude when you don't like what you asked for.

 

[JamesDNaux]

You asked for feedback. Don't be rude when you don't like what you asked for.

Excuse me? I wasn't being rude, where do you come off with that? And do tell, when did I ask for feedback?

 

[Sehnsucht]

James almost perfect roster. It's safe as **** (no Isaac or Shulk? Guess you gotta cut corners somewhere) and that's why I love it.

This "safe" issue has me conflicted.

True, we can expect Sakurai to make unexpected choices (see WFT, and Villager and Rosalina to a lesser extent, not to mention left-field picks in past Smash games). But many SSB4 candidates have a lot of strong reasoning for the merits of their potential inclusion, so it's no surprise that we'd all gravitate towards such characters. Little Mac is one example of a character that had a lot of arguments and factors in his favour (then again, his case was among the most solid across the board to begin with).

Are "safe" rosters to be dismissed? Must we bend ourselves backwards trying to be unorthodox in our selection because Sakurai throws a curveball or two at every Smash iteration?

I don't see this Safe VS Risky dichotomy as being worthy of much discussion; what matters is the reasoning that goes behind each of one's picks. Or so I would think.

Does anyone else find it unlikely that we will get both Lip and Takumaru? I mean why would we have two retro Japan only characters? I don't see that really happening.

Perhaps not. But there's nothing stopping them from adding two (or more) retro/classic/oldschool picks, if they really want them.

Takamaru seems the most probable inclusion (and is the one I find most interesting). I wouldn't be opposed to Lip or whoever else, however.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I want to say "Krystal would definitely have her staff" but that's really up for debate. Even if she was another clone of fox (or even semi in just properties), am I the not person that wouldn't give a cheap? After being screamed "betrayal" with Ganon I can't think of a sensible reason to care.

And that's still playing with an if since we know the directors do at least some degree of research before adding in a character

 

[The Light Music Club]

Excuse me? I wasn't being rude, where do you come off with that? And do tell, when did I ask for feedback?

Once again I mixed a few posts up. I thought you were the one asking for feedback.

 

[Shorts]

I feel like Shulk is a no go this round. Same with Wonder Red. Although I hope I'm wrong.

Would you rather have: Rosalina, a Yoshi Character, or a Wario Character?

I want to say "Krystal would definitely have her staff" but that's really up for debate.

I think it's a lot less up for debate then it was before. This roster is focusing on interesting additions. If she's a clone, she's less interesting than a staff/dino lady.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I want to say "Krystal would definitely have her staff" but that's really up for debate. Even if she was another clone of fox (or even semi in just properties), am I the not person that wouldn't give a cheap? After being screamed "betrayal" with Ganon I can't think of a sensible reason to care.

And that's still playing with an if since we know the directors do at least some degree of research before adding in a character

Krystal wouldn't be added unless he gave her the staff. Everyone is unique this time and there are no need for clones, Krystal will only get in if Sakurai finds her to be an important enough and unique addition. Ganondorf was unfortunately only added in Melee for the sole purpose of being a clone to pad the roster.

 

[Lasifer]

I feel like Shulk is a no go this round. Same with Wonder Red. Although I hope I'm wrong.

Would you rather have: Rosalina, a Yoshi Character, or a Wario Character?



I think it's a lot less up for debate then it was before. This roster is focusing on interesting additions. If she's a clone, she's less interesting than a staff/dino lady.

I think Shulk's pretty likely, I can't say the same for Wonder Red though I really want him. He'll probably be an assist trophy, and the Wonderful 101 might have a stage.

And I'd rather have a Wario character in the form of Mona.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

As far as Shulk goes I just think having a character represent the Xeno series is a good idea, and Shulk is the best choice for that. The Xeno series is a long running and fairly popular one. It may not have started as a Nintendo thing, but it is now. I see it like a Snake thing, yet different. Snake got in because he was from a big, long running series, despite not being heavily associated with Nintendo, and I can see Shulk getting in for the same reason, sure the Metal Gear series is bigger then the Xeno series, but the difference is that the Xeno series now belongs to Nintendo. Also Namco used to own the Xeno series, so if can kind of represents Namco in a way, take that as you will. It might sound convoluted, but it makes sense to me.

Muddy Mole...I'd probably expect Mach Rider over him.

I see Muddy as a out of left field retro (similar to R.O.B.) and Takamaru as the main focused retro, (similar to Pit). I see Mach Rider as a main focused retro character, and would imagine he'll be saved for a later installment.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

This "safe" issue has me conflicted.

True, we can expect Sakurai to make unexpected choices (see WFT, and Villager and Rosalina to a lesser extent, not to mention left-field picks in past Smash games). But many SSB4 candidates have a lot of strong reasoning for the merits of their potential inclusion, so it's no surprise that we'd all gravitate towards such characters. Little Mac is one example of a character that had a lot of arguments and factors in his favour (then again, his case was among the most solid across the board to begin with).

Are "safe" rosters to be dismissed? Must we bend ourselves backwards trying to be unorthodox in our selection because Sakurai throws a curveball or two at every Smash iteration?

I don't see this Safe VS Risky dichotomy as being worthy of much discussion; what matters is the reasoning that goes behind each of one's picks. Or so I would think.



Perhaps not. But there's nothing stopping them from adding two (or more) retro/classic/oldschool picks, if they really want them.

Takamaru seems the most probable inclusion (and is the one I find most interesting). I wouldn't be opposed to Lip or whoever else, however.

id give you the reply you deserve if I wasn't on mobile but be noted how I said I like it. They're not to be dismissed for speculation.

The thing is if you still post a safe roster you're not really thinking as much outside the box, which is fine, but a lot of these end up looking the same. It triggers a question - Have we all came to a happy medium on most topics? When I make a roster these days I personally try to instigate some thinking but that's just me.

Maybe I've just grown old.

 

[Deleted member]

You're damned if you're too safe, you're damned if you're too risky.

Might as well just not give a ****.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I don't think Shulk is very important. That's not even a major Nintendo franchise. Muddy Mole...I'd probably expect Mach Rider over him.

I dunno. While Nintendo has a Scrooge-sized vault of characters to mine from their extensive past, acknowledging modern IPs and series seems just as valid a course to go. Of course, more recent IPs have a harder time reaching Nintendo All-Star status on account of recency (i.e. they aren't as "ripe" as "major" Nintendo franchises), but giving a recent character a chance to shine (e.g. Shulk) might help bridge Nintendo's rich history with its present (and Smash, as a crossover game, presents a good way of achieving just that).

Using one or two slots to accommodate this class of characters isn't unreasonable, especially since the majority of a given Smash roster consists of classic and/or major and/or older series.

Not that I think Shulk is on the same level as Little Mac in terms of guarantee, however. I'm just not sure I'm entirely sold on the notion that you need to have Nintendo seniority to be considered a Smash contender.

I feel like Shulk is a no go this round. Same with Wonder Red. Although I hope I'm wrong.

Would you rather have: Rosalina, a Yoshi Character, or a Wario Character?

Rosalina, I suppose, since I'm familiar with the Galaxy series, but not with the Yoshi/Wario spin-offs.

id give you the reply you deserve if I wasn't on mobile but be noted how I said I like it. They're not to be dismissed for speculation.

The thing is if you still post a safe roster you're not really thinking as much outside the box, which is fine, but a lot of these end up looking the same. It triggers a question - Have we all came to a happy medium on most topics? When I make a roster these days I personally try to instigate some thinking but that's just me.

Maybe I've just grown old.

That's seems to be the case. The Smash fandom must have covered every angle ten times over by now, so the only thing left for us to do is to retread the weather-worn ideas while we endure this interminable wait for sweet release (of the game).

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

We don't need to be risky, Sakurai's already being risky for us, adding newcomers like the Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina. Speaking of newcomers, has anyone pointed out that the newcomers have a pattern of green, blue, green, blue?

I guess we can expect a blue newcomer next.

 

[SuperBrawler]

@ JamesDNaux

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/J6KRPIl.jpg

 

[Shorts]

We don't need to be risky, Sakurai's already being risky for us, adding newcomers like the Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina. Speaking of newcomers, has anyone pointed out that the newcomers have a pattern of green, blue, green, blue? I guess we can expect a blue newcomer next.

It's Crumb time then.

 

[SuperBrawler]

We don't need to be risky, Sakurai's already being risky for us, adding newcomers like the Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina. Speaking of newcomers, has anyone pointed out that the newcomers have a pattern of green, blue, green, blue?

I guess we can expect a blue newcomer next.

PICHU HAS BLUE GOGGLES

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Krystal wouldn't be added unless he gave her the staff. Everyone is unique this time and there are no need for clones

I'm sorry, but this is simply nonsense. With the limitations of the 3DS, Sakurai said he will have to "reduce characters". And limitations may affect roster size. Not having semi-clones would be a stupid choice for him to make because he wouldn't be able to add as many characters. If none of your additions are semi-clones then I must say that's rather unrealistic. As is the notion that Sakurai would not take the opportunity to make somebody a semi-clone when they deserve to be one or that he doesn't feel need for semi-clones because he so obviously does.

Smash fans not seeing need for clones does not convince me that Sakurai feels the same. You know a lot of Smash fans say there is no need for 2 Links. And why do you say everyone is unique this time around? Haven't 2 clones already been confirmed?

I don't even see why Krystal's Staff is important anyway. As one special I could see it. As an entire move set? No. She's a Star Fox pilot and she never used it since the black sheep of Star Fox games and it has nothing to do with her modern and more iconic character appearances. And technically she didn't use it ever so I would not wager that it is "important". If Sakurai wanted to give a counterpart character like Krystal something just because it'd be unique then he probably would have given Luigi a poltergust. Despite that, this insignificant item is Krystal's only supposed reason to be in. Her significance in Star Fox does not reach to the point of a character inclusion.

Ganondorf was unfortunately only added in Melee for the sole purpose of being a clone to pad the roster.

I'm confused. Is this relevant?