Changing the Europe Subboard

[Red Arremer]

Why don't let like 2 people per country join NOW so we actually have representatives of each region ?
If they let 2 people every months join it will be like: first all dutch players, then all swedish, then every other country and when we have a representative for each country there will be a SSB4 BR ~.~

I support this notion... what sense does it make to add 1 European every month, instead of collecting all European representants and then let them in all together?

But yea... it's kind of a disappointment somehow... I wish we could've gotten more out of it... =/

 

[Marc]

At this point there are already a few I want to let in and the numbers aren't fixed, but we're not gonna force feed Europeans to the SBR. Adding like 30 people at once just doesn't work. That said, I'll push for adding 5 Europeans within the next month or so. That will already be a major improvement. Also get this... it's unclear (to me) which Europeans should be in, hence the proving grounds. Because many Europeans have been posting on their own boards for the most part, I only have a clear image of the Dutchies.

As for a tier list, we could still have only a small group actually allowed to vote. Same with rulesets and the like.

I'll be reporting feedback back to the Staffer Shack btw.

 

[Tero.]

At this point there are already a few I want to let in and the numbers aren't fixed, but we're not gonna force feed Europeans to the SBR. Adding like 30 people at once just doesn't work. That said, I'll push for adding 5 Europeans within the next month or so. That will already be a major improvement. Also get this... it's unclear (to me) which Europeans should be in, hence the proving grounds. Because many Europeans have been posting on their own boards for the most part, I only have a clear image of the Dutchies.

As for a tier list, we could still have only a small group actually allowed to vote. Same with rulesets and the like.

I'll be reporting feedback back to the Staffer Shack btw.

There are 20 people in the EBBR social group ( http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?do=viewmembers&groupid=1072 ) , 3 of them are allready in the SBR and some of them are not active enough to be in, so it shouldn't be that much actually.

Oh and I would suggest Gheb for Austria, maybe Spadefox, too. Marcbri for Spain and Blad for France.

About the tier list:
Discussion won't be the same with noobs posting there all the time, I would suggest to at least use a private social group for that.

 

[Blad01]

Well I'm pretty disappointed too, these changes are really minimal...

I totally agree with Tero, except that I'm not convinced of the usefulness of regional boards (Apart from a thread showing the rankings, results etc).

Any explanations on why there shouldn't be a EBBR ? Like I've said multiples times, it may be too soon right now, but after this summer we'll need it imo. (Since we'll have our own metagame and more expenrience. Right now it's just all theory, or almost)

I still don't get AT ALL the logic of europeans being in the SBR, since the tier list, ruleset are based on american tournaments results.

 

[Red Arremer]

I still don't get AT ALL the logic of europeans being in the SBR, since the tier list, ruleset are based on american tournaments results.

The SBR represents not only America, but the Smash community as a whole. Therefore, it wouldn't make sense to throw out the Europeans, especially now that we won't get an own subsection.
Or are you saying Europeans can't give valuable input?

 

[Blad01]

1) A Tier List is based on a specific metagame. From what I've heard, the SBR takes into accounts tournaments results, from Akoku's thread. Therefore, they use the american metagame for their tier list (and maybe the american community for the rulesets).

2) There isn't any worldwide metagame, so the SBR can't be worldwide.

That's why I think that Europeans shouldn't be in the SBR. European's metagame (doesn't even exists yet), or if you prefer Europeans countries's metagames are different from the american one.
Furthermore, even if some europeans are in (basing their opinion on theory but also on their own metagame), their votes represent a very little minority, and thus are probably a bit useless.

 

[Tero.]

Furthermore, even if some europeans are in (basing their opinion on theory but also on their own metagame), their votes represent a very little minority, and thus are probably a bit useless.

Their arguments/experiences however could affect the votes of the others.

 

[Red Arremer]

1) A Tier List is based on a specific metagame. From what I've heard, the SBR takes into accounts tournaments results, from Akoku's thread. Therefore, they use the american metagame for their tier list (and maybe the american community for the rulesets).

Tier lists are not the only thing the SBR discusses. Even then, the Europeans still can show their tournament results and bring them into discussion.

2) There isn't any worldwide metagame, so the SBR can't be worldwide.

And by not working together we won't ever have one.

That's why I think that Europeans shouldn't be in the SBR.

Because you don't want to unite the Smash Community but fascistically split every country apart into a region and disrupt them influencing each other?

European's metagame (doesn't even exists yet), or if you prefer Europeans countries's metagames are different from the american one.

Hence, to represent the whole Smash Community it's mandatory for Europeans to voice their own opinions on the matters.

Furthermore, even if some europeans are in, their votes represent a very little minority, and thus are probably a bit useless.

No, their votes represent as much of a personal opinion as do every other SBR member's. The SBR is no parliament. The Europeans are not a political party that will go all closed. Neither are the Americans.
Stop acting like the Americans want to devour us and stop Europeans playing Smash or whatever surreal you think is going to happen.

 

[Blad01]

nd by not working together we won't ever have one.

A worldwide metagame is a fancy, it doesn't exist, and it will never exist.

Because you don't want to unite the Smash Community but fascistically split every country apart into a region and disrupt them influencing each other?

I want to unite the European Smash Community, because we can have a european metagme. On the other hand, I don't see why we should unite the american / european communities, since there won't ever be a worldwide (or american - european metagame).

Hence, to represent the whole Smash Community it's mandatory for Europeans to voice their own opinions on the matters.

Again, the SBR doesn't represent 'whole Smash Community' at all. At least, not the brawl one (I don't know for the Melee one, but since NTSC Melee and PAL Melee are not the same, a worldwide SBR is even more illogical imo). And I don't think it will ever represent it.

No, their votes represent as much of a personal opinion as do every other SBR member's. The SBR is no parliament. The Europeans are not a political party that will go all closed. Neither are the Americans.
Stop acting like the Americans want to devour us and stop Europeans playing Smash or whatever surreal you think is going to happen.

You are making a comparison with a parliament, and that's indeed pretty good. In that case, 'political party' = 'Specific metagame'. The americans players will base their opinions on their metagame. The europeans players will base their opinions on their own metagame. (Like 'Here there is an awesome Wolf player (Jumpman ? ), it should be way higher', and americans having a different opinion. They could influence the votes, but I doubt dialogue can be more important than personnal experience. That's why most of the best players say that they can't really judge a player before having played the latter)

 

[Red Arremer]

Okay, then. Let's set the following rules:
NO EUROPEAN PLAYER IS ALLOWED TO ATTEND AMERICAN TOURNAMENTS AND VICE VERSA!
NO EUROPEAN PLAYER IS ALLOWED TO TALK TO AMERICAN PLAYERS AND VICE VERSA!

We have to keep our European metagame pure and clean from the dirty American players...

 

[Blinky]

I feel like this conversation has gone round in a circle, cause I see people saying the same thing they did pages ago.
Anyway, having more Europeans in the SBR is definately an improvement. While, like blad01 said, our metagames are different, it does not mean out input is irrelivant. Also, I think we should first get at last one representative from each region first, rather than all from the same area, but I'm sure Marc has already considered this.
In terms of new layout, a social board is unneeded. Simply splitting the European board into separate regions would be good enough, and then having an international part for large tournements, results etc.
My biggest issue with open discussion, is that while it would be possible to see who should get access to SBR, that should already be obvious to people within their own region. It could just be recommended instead, as an open discussion would generally be poor arguements.

I really need to learn how to quote people...

 

[Blad01]

Okay, then. Let's set the following rules:
NO EUROPEAN PLAYER IS ALLOWED TO ATTEND AMERICAN TOURNAMENTS AND VICE VERSA!
NO EUROPEAN PLAYER IS ALLOWED TO TALK TO AMERICAN PLAYERS AND VICE VERSA!

We have to keep our European metagame pure and clean from the dirty American players...

Whenever european players attend an american tournament, they are only a few (and vice-versa). This doesn't create a worlwide metagame.

Also, please don't make cynism with things I haven't said. I'm not really anti-american players, so keep the 'dirty americans players' for yourself, please.

 

[Red Arremer]

BUT THE PLAYERS ARE ALREADY INFLUENCING THEIR OWN METAGAMES!

Look at the character boards! Look at the discussion boards. There are many Europeans discovering and discussing stuff!! The people are visiting tournaments in each other region! European and American metagames aren't "pure" because the regions already influence each other!!
Knowledgeable players are knowledgeable players, no matter where they are from!

Get that stupid nationalism out of your head, Blad, it's really shallow thinking.

 

[Marcbri]

And by not working together we won't ever have one.

I like this sentence here, so true, if we have a SBR instead of BRs for different countries we are getting close to an unique ( and possibly better) metagame.


hey guys, don't complain so much, at least we got something, right? :D

Look at the character boards! Look at the discussion boards. There are many Europeans discovering and discussing stuff!! The people are visiting tournaments in each other region! European and American metagames aren't "pure" because the regions already influence each other!!
Knowledgeable players are knowledgeable players, no matter where they are from!

this is true too, there are some european players that actually change the metagame in the U.S. just by posting discoverings and vids on the subforums

 

[Blad01]

BUT THE PLAYERS ARE ALREADY INFLUENCING THEIR OWN METAGAMES!

Look at the character boards! Look at the discussion boards. There are many Europeans discovering and discussing stuff!! The people are visiting tournaments in each other region! European and American metagames aren't "pure" because the regions already influence each other!!
Knowledgeable players are knowledgeable players, no matter where they are from!

Get that stupid nationalism out of your head, Blad, it's really shallow thinking.

I didn't know Europe was a nation D: No but seriously, it's not nationalism, it's just logic.
I would really like an answer by an (important) BRoomer on the goal of the SBR, and the relation between specifics metagames and the SBR.

Also, we can try a worldwide SBR (Imo it's not really worldwide currently but whatever), I'm just not convinced :x

 

[Red Arremer]

I didn't know Europe was a nation D:

Fine, then it's regionalism if you prefer that term. Nitpicker.

No but seriously, it's not nationalism, it's just logic.

What's logical behind that? Europe and America influence each other already by the very existence of this board. Unlike in Melee, the two game versions are the same. Thus if I discover something with my character and post it into the character board, I have not only influenced the European, but also the American metagame. Thus saying that Europeans being useless in the SBR is the illogical conclusion here!
I already influenced Americans by posting information, and Americans have influenced me by posting information. And I'm not the only European that has been influenced by Americans and there's not only one American that has been influenced by Europeans.

It's true that other characters are popular in Europe, and that we have different tournament results (i.e. less Meta Knight presence), BUT it still doesn't mean that Europe has no influence on America and vice versa.

Therefore saying that the European metagame has nothing to with the American metagame, and that exchanging information and opinions in between representant of these metagames is not logical, but regionalist.

 

[Blad01]

Therefore saying that the European metagame has nothing to with the American metagame, and that exchanging information and opinions in between representant of these metagames is not logical, but regionalist.

You are talking about the tactical boards and character boards, while I'm talking about making a tier list based on both metagames.

Of course the europeans on SmashBoards can influence Americans by talking with them, and vice-versa.

(However, there are still only a few europeans on these boards at the moment, so the 'european' metagame can't really influence american one. I'm not talking about ATs or discovered tricks, but about a metagame)

What I'm saying is that it would illogical and imaginary to try to base a tier list on both metagames.

 

[Red Arremer]

You are talking about the tactical boards and character boards, while I'm talking about making a tier list based on both metagames.

Of course the europeans on SmashBoards can influence Americans by talking with them, and vice-versa.

(However, there are still only a few europeans on these boards at the moment, so the 'european' metagame can't really influence american one. I'm not talking about ATs or discovered tricks, but about a metagame)

What I'm saying is that it would illogical and imaginary to try to base a tier list on both metagames.

...?!

I thought I already told you that a tier list is not the only thing the SBR works on!

I think you don't understand what the term "metagame" means. To explain it to you, in a short wise:
In order to win, competitive players use Tactic A. A is very successful unless it is countered by Tactic B. In order to beat Tactic B, though, you need Tactic C, and so on. The development and competitive use of these tactics (i.e. in tournaments) is the metagame. The metagame evolves, around characters, certain general and character-specific techniques, players on high level using them, and of course counter-tactics to face all of these characters, tactics and players.

That is a metagame. It's not "Which character won many tournaments here or there?" or whatever you might think.

By discovering a certain tactic, and making it public, I can influence every metagame, not only the metagame of my region.
I forgot who brought it up earlier, but to explain why Europe has a different metagame:
In the States (and Canada), people of different regions and characters regularly face each other. Mainly Meta Knight and Snake, but also other characters are used there, and the metagames more easily "melt together" if you want to.
With Europe, this is not the case. We don't have the same metagame, because we have different characters dominating (i.e. Falco) in our region. Therefore, we don't need tactics to face Meta Knight, but to face Falco. It's not Falco being played a lot or winning lotsa tournaments, it's the development of tactics against that character.
This is the region specific metagame!

The tactics are pretty much the same, but these specific cases mean that, for instance, most Europeans have far more experience against Falco than agains Meta Knight, whereas the Americans, due to having less Falcos but more Meta Knights, have it the other way around.

As I already said: People knowing their stuff know their stuff, no matter if they sit in New York, Stockholm or Singapore. If someone is able to properly contribute to the SBR and SWF with their opinions on whatever the discussion is about, they should be able to do so. And not be held back by something prehistoric like regionalism!

 

[Marc]

How about this division:

-Tournaments (basically all big events, anything you'd want to attract foreigners to)
-Competitive discussion (improve communication, rulesets etc, basically what a back room would discuss)
-Regional talk (finding people from your own community, smashfests etc)

I don't think regional talk needs to be split right away, but I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Greward]

regional talk is unnecesary, most countries have got their own boards and in their language, maybe some small countries (like portugal) anyways its not so much to have a subforum for it.

 

[Marcbri]

How about this division:

-Tournaments (basically all big events, anything you'd want to attract foreigners to)
-Competitive discussion (improve communication, rulesets etc, basically what a back room would discuss)
-Regional talk (finding people from your own community, smashfests etc)

I don't think regional talk needs to be split right away, but I'm open to suggestions.

I agree with this division.

Greward: Regional talk without subforums is OK, there would be the threads for different countries and those kind of posts.

 

[Red Arremer]

I agree with this division.

Greward: Regional talk without subforums is OK, there would be the threads for different countries and those kind of posts.

I totally agree with this posting.

 

[Blad01]

I agree too...

I was just hopping for better changes

Anyways, for when these changes are planned ?


Also :

And not be held back by something prehistoric like regionalism!

Wtf, seriously Spadefox ? Apparently we will never understand each other, I give up :/

 

[Red Arremer]

Wtf, seriously Spadefox ? Apparently we will never understand each other, I give up :/

I have brought you the points and merits of Europeans in the SBR. You refused to see and accept them for silly reasons.

And no, I'm not saying that because I have a purple nick now.

 

[Blad01]

I have brought you the points and merits of Europeans in the SBR. You refused to see and accept them for silly reasons.

And no, I'm not saying that because I have a purple nick now.

You didn't really answer my principal point, which was : Since we have different metagames (not only in the meaning you described, but also considering different good players, picking different characters and showing their potential... etc), there is no point in discussing together.
Also by saying that I also meant that european metagame (which doesn't exists yet ^_^) is behing american's one, so you can't really bring up your experience as an european player while discussing.
Also, maybe it's me who doesn't understand the term 'metagame', but the difference between you and me is that you seem to define a 'metagame' as a theoric thinking only, while I take into account tournaments experience (and thus europe and america will have different metagames).

In understand your point (which is, all the experienced players should be in the SBR, no matter where they live, no matter their experience), but I just don't really agree with it.

So you're in the SBR now ? :o How come ? Should I understand that they begin the changes ?

 

[Marcbri]

You didn't really answer my principal point, which was : Since we have different metagames (not only in the meaning you described, but also considering different good players, picking different characters and showing their potential... etc), there is no point in discussing together.
Also by saying that I also meant that european metagame (which doesn't exists yet ^_^) is behing american's one, so you can't really bring up your experience as an european player while discussing.
Also, maybe it's me who doesn't understand the term 'metagame', but the difference between you and me is that you seem to define a 'metagame' as a theoric thinking only, while I take into account tournaments experience (and thus europe and america will have different metagames).

In understand your point (which is, all the experienced players should be in the SBR, no matter where they live, no matter their experience), but I just don't really agree with it.

So you're in the SBR now ? :o How come ? Should I understand that they begin the changes ?

let's see, first off,if you say Europe and America have different metagames ( that's true) and because of that, they shouldn't discuss together, why are there west and east coast players in the SBR? very few players from EC or WC have been in the other coast, but still they discuss together ( why shouldn't they?) . And they do have different metagames, some characters are more popular in one of the coasts.

Europe is the same, why shouldn't we discuss with american players and learn from eachother? ofc there can be an European back room just like there is now to discuss some things like the ruleset where not every region will like the same rules.

Now I ask, why there's no point in discussing together? then why are you in SWF? Why are you in the Falco back room or you help the Falco boards?

Answer these questions with arguments of why you do all that but you think that discussing with people you can't usually play is useless.

And yes , I guess they have started to get more Europeans in the SBR, which is nice since we can get represented there.

 

[Blad01]

Well... I'm going to answer quickly, but I've already given my opinion on most of your aguments :

let's see, first off,if you say Europe and America have different metagames ( that's true) and because of that, they shouldn't discuss together, why are there west and east coast players in the SBR? very few players from EC or WC have been in the other coast, but still they discuss together ( why shouldn't they?) . And they do have different metagames, some characters are more popular in one of the coasts.

1. Still, there are national tournaments, with (top) players from East Coast and West Coast.
And even if not ALL the top players have been to the other coast, that doesn't mean their metagames haven't influenced each other thanks to these national tourneys.

2. They are sure that in the future, there will be national tourneys everyone will attend.
While we are not sure that there will be big american - european tournaments.

Europe is the same, why shouldn't we discuss with american players and learn from eachother? ofc there can be an European back room just like there is now to discuss some things like the ruleset where not every region will like the same rules.

3. Because while there are national tournaments in America, and europeans tournaments soon, there are not american - european tournaments (yet ? Genesis or SL4 could be the first american - european tournaments (for Brawl at least), but there so few euro in the first one, and so few americans in the latter, that it's unlikely)

Now I ask, why there's no point in discussing together? then why are you in SWF? Why are you in the Falco back room or you help the Falco boards?

4. Like I've already said : Discussing ATs, discussing on characters boards (to explore new ways / best ways to use the character) =/= Making a tier list (partially based on a specific metagame)

Answer these questions with arguments of why you do all that but you think that discussing with people you can't usually play is useless in order to make a tier list

5. Because we might not be at the same level of metagames / practice.

6. And because I don't believe we could really influence and convince each other by saying "Hey look, there is an awesome [character] player in Europe, and he places really well in touraments, that proves [character] should be higher" (by example .-.), if we haven't experienced ourselves the metagame we are talking about, and his state of development.
That may be possible though, but for the moment (and particulary at the moment, since our metagame in Europe is not really developped yet), I don't believe so.


[Ok, so now I'm done with this discussion. If I answered again, I would just repeat myself ]

 

[Marcbri]

4. Like I've already said : Discussing ATs, discussing on characters boards (to explore new ways / best ways to use the character) =/= Making a tier list (partially based on a specific metagame)

Isn't discussing ATs or match-ups changing the metagame for everyone? I think posting here and discovering ATs does influence more other metagames than just going to a couple of tournaments and playing some matches.

Another point is that SBR isn't American, in fact the two group leaders are Marc ( European) and Hylian ( American). Isn't that proof that what we want is to fuse our metagames to get one better?

Also, Why can't we change their mind of something? you are saying that America > Europe and because of that they would ignore us. First off, you don't even need to be a top player to enter the SBR, you need to know about the game and need to know how to discuss properly.

Look for example at the MK ban thread, two of the main antiban players that constantly post in that thread ( Spadefox and Yuna) are European, and they discuss there without being ignored because of nationality.

With these examples I post as a FACT that no one would be ignored because of being a worse player or not being from America, because that's not what really matter in the SBR.

In short: it's the same game, and the metagame will grow to be more and more similar between the continents as time goes on, even if we don't fight with them directly, we can even watch some of their videos and learn new things that change our metagame ( and that happens A LOT here, we have many players that copy playstyles from American players.

I guess I've explained enough to say that both metagames are connected and that if we fuse them we can get a better metagame in both continents.

 

[Red Arremer]

SBR =/= Talking about Tier Lists

There's far more discussion going on there than just tier list stuff. I should know.

 

[King Funk]

Isn't discussing ATs or match-ups changing the metagame for everyone? I think posting here and discovering ATs does influence more other metagames than just going to a couple of tournaments and playing some matches.

Another point is that SBR isn't American, in fact the two group leaders are Marc ( European) and Hylian ( American). Isn't that proof that what we want is to fuse our metagames to get one better?

Also, Why can't we change their mind of something? you are saying that America > Europe and because of that they would ignore us. First off, you don't even need to be a top player to enter the SBR, you need to know about the game and need to know how to discuss properly.

Look for example at the MK ban thread, two of the main antiban players that constantly post in that thread ( Spadefox and Yuna) are European, and they discuss there without being ignored because of nationality.

With these examples I post as a FACT that no one would be ignored because of being a worse player or not being from America, because that's not what really matter in the SBR.

In short: it's the same game, and the metagame will grow to be more and more similar between the continents as time goes on, even if we don't fight with them directly, we can even watch some of their videos and learn new things that change our metagame ( and that happens A LOT here, we have many players that copy playstyles from American players.

I guess I've explained enough to say that both metagames are connected and that if we fuse them we can get a better metagame in both continents.

When we say "european metagame" it doesn't mean we don't share theories, techniques, styles of play with the americans. The only big difference we have here in Europe is character popularity, and consequently character usage and character results. I do agree with Blad01 though on the fact that it's hard to determine who is doing well here in Europe, because there isn't a lot of interplay between the different european countries. I think we need transnational tournaments, involving more than just one country, that way it'd be easier to know about what we all have in common (in character usage).

 

[Marcbri]

So because we play different charcters we shouldn't be in the same back room?

Then Spain shouldn't be in the European back room since the other countries don't have that many Diddys, Falcos or DDDs. ( ofc this is an example of why that argument is stupid.).

oh, And Blad, even if the SBR was only about doing tier lists, isn't the tier list the same in PAL and NTSC? This isn't melee where two different tier lists were needed because the games were different. In brawl I wouldn't mind having an European tier list but it's not a must like it was in melee because NTSC's tier list in melee was wrong with our game since their were different. However, this isn't the case.

 

[Blad01]

oh, And Blad, even if the SBR was only about doing tier lists, isn't the tier list the same in PAL and NTSC? This isn't melee where two different tier lists were needed because the games were different. In brawl I wouldn't mind having an European tier list but it's not a must like it was in melee because NTSC's tier list in melee was wrong with our game since their were different. However, this isn't the case.

The SBR has always said that the list tier was based on :

• Broomers opinions
• Character potential
• Tournaments Results

And the first and third points are relative to a metagame. If a tier list was entirely based on theory (like match-ups are), then we could make a worldwide tier list, yes.

 

[Marcbri]

Being european =/= having different opinions. I may agree in something with an American and disagree with an European.

Tournament results from Europe are taken in account, look again at the MK thread, they gathered info of the +90 players tournaments in 09, and BI8 was included with the big tournaments in the U.S.

so what's wrong with those 3 points?

 

[Blad01]

Being european =/= having different opinions. I may agree in something with an American and disagree with an European.

Tournament results from Europe are taken in account, look again at the MK thread, they gathered info of the +90 players tournaments in 09, and BI8 was included with the big tournaments in the U.S.

so what's wrong with those 3 points?

Well... if european results are taken into account by the SBR, all my reasonning is pretty much false.

Are they ? :o

[EDIT : I still would like an anwser from a (not recent) Brommer. Basically : Is the tier list meant to be worldwide ?]

 

[Samochan]

I doubt there's any need for brawl tier list for europe, cause we simply lack brawl metagame around here. There are mostly local brawl tourneys and not so much of those either, there is no point in making a tier list based on some sidetourneyresults on bigger euro tourneys, cause we really don't hook up often enough to develop an european wide metagame. <_< Not to mention we don't even have consistent feed of tournament results for the tier list or anything else needed to make a tier list.

 

[King Funk]

I doubt there's any need for brawl tier list for europe, cause we simply lack brawl metagame around here. There are mostly local brawl tourneys and not so much of those either, there is no point in making a tier list based on some sidetourneyresults on bigger euro tourneys, cause we really don't hook up often enough to develop an european wide metagame. <_< Not to mention we don't even have consistent feed of tournament results for the tier list or anything else needed to make a tier list.

But what about new subboards (which, I think, was the initial subject of this thread)?

 

[Red Arremer]

Well... if european results are taken into account by the SBR, all my reasonning is pretty much false.

Are they ? :o

If they are posted in the Character Rankings thread or the Tournament Listing/Results, then, usually, they are absolutely taken into account.

As for another topic, this is directed at Marc...
Is there an approximate time area we can look forward to when these changes to the boards are going to be made?

 

[Fuzzyness]

I'm just waiting to see if the staff expand + move the european section ~_~ i gave up talking about it because the rant kept going on and on.. Want something to happen ****it :/

Yo Marc keep me updated with what's happening, I was the one who suggested in the first place and spent a few days on the staffer shack whining xP

 

[Marc]

Blad01: Yes, the SBR tier list is supposed to be worldwide.

I told the staff how we wanted it, ball's in their court. =/ I'll try and find the right people and talk to them directly.

 

[Blad01]

Blad01: Yes, the SBR tier list is supposed to be worldwide.

Hum I see, so the tier list is based on both american and european metagames ? Japanese's one too ? It makes more sense then, but I was not under this impression