Changes you'd like to see in Mewtwo

[blu2grut]

My quality of life changes I would make.

I would like to be able to be standing on a platform and teleport below it like in melee. Currently it acts like you are on the ground and sends you forward.

I think mewtwo should be able to grab the ledge sooner out of forward b. Currently if you side b it needs to finish the very long animation before it can grab ledge.

If its possible, it would help a ton if you could make it harder to use your second jump when trying to up b. Perhaps not take the 2nd jump unless its animation lasts longer than 1-2 frames (dunno). Currently if you jump and then up b you often will use your 2nd jump right before making it very risky to up b towards someone off the ledge as it might leave you with no recovery. Either jumping with the analog stick or being seemingly frame perfect on hitting up and b at he same time are the only ways around this. Turning off tap to jump is a thing oops.

I think it to be fair to keep melee's charge shot mechanics the same and allow him to keep the charge (full charge only) if you are attacked before putting it away (in melee it even keeps it if you are interrupted when firing it). The charge shot is a threat while charging and in melee you could hold it there with out fear of losing the entire charge.

 

[MetaKnight0]

My quality of life changes I would make.

I would like to be able to be standing on a platform and teleport below it like in melee. Currently it acts like you are on the ground and sends you forward.

Jump first teleport through platform

 

[DrinkingFood]

And wait through his 5 frame jumpstart animation? that's really inefficient
dropping through then teleporting would be faster.

 

[MetaKnight0]

And wait through his 5 frame jumpstart animation? that's really inefficient
dropping through then teleporting would be faster.

sure you could do that too

 

[blu2grut]

I'm assuming its an oversight. It was correct in melee and this would be easy to miss. There is no reason for dropping or jumping first.

 

[Aenglaan]

I think a lot of the hit boxes on his moves should be buffed. His down tilt, for example, could really use a hit box behind him, considering his tail also goes there.

 

[Rikana]

That's just making the hitbox more active. Mewtwo's already buffed quite drastically from his Melee counterpart. I don't see why Mewtwo should get anymore big buffs to spoonfeed players than teach them how to hone his tools. Mewtwo is far from crippled now.

There might be some areas that need "fixing," but otherwise, Mewtwo is in a pretty good spot.

 

[Daftatt]

There is a pushbox from is over-special, maybe if that was grown out (not the grab box where it spins you, and not the projectile reflection box), it might have better use in the air.

 

[GeZ]

There is a pushbox from is over-special, maybe if that was grown out (not the grab box where it spins you, and not the projectile reflection box), it might have better use in the air.

I don't see how a buff to that tame wind push box could help the move.
And I really don't think that proposing changes for this character is appropriate right now. He's solid as hell and just requires some know how. It doesn't help that half the complaints I hear are reminiscent of babies first boo boo.

 

[Alex Night]

That's just making the hitbox more active. Mewtwo's already buffed quite drastically from his Melee counterpart. I don't see why Mewtwo should get anymore big buffs to spoonfeed players than teach them how to hone his tools. Mewtwo is far from crippled now.

There might be some areas that need "fixing," but otherwise, Mewtwo is in a pretty good spot.

I actually agree with that. Mewtwo is far from crippled. Mewtwo actually has potential to be one of the top five if not the best given what he's got. It's just that prominent Mewtwo users like Taj or M2K are not abusing the Float Cancel with Nair and Fair. Actually, those two moves are freakishly good since Mewtwo can just instantly end an opponent's combo even at low to mid percent with those two moves. It feels... Brain dead actually and more nightmarish than Peach's Nair since it combos into every move he has. Literally. The Float Cancel allows it to combo into a grab, dtilt, uptilt, jab, and on some rare occassions side B and down B. It can even combo into another Nair if you hit the first Nair on strong hit, float cancel, short hop Teleport, and then do the second Nair.

The idea of Mewtwo having many options like this because of Float Cancel along with his other obvious gifts like nigh-ungimpable recovery makes him very dangerous and honestly... I think it's sort of a problem that Mewtwo's Nair and Fair are instant brain dead combo breakers. It's just me, but I would like to see those two moves adjusted a bit.

 

[MetaKnight0]

nair isnt really a braindead one since a lot of moves flat out beat it

try breaking out of a Marth combo with nair

 

[Alex Night]

nair isnt really a braindead one since a lot of moves flat out beat it

try breaking out of a Marth combo with nair

It's not the priority that's the problem. It's the speed that Mewtwo can bring out his Nair or Fair while being combo'd even at low to mid percents. It can stop nearly any combo being dealt on Mewtwo with those two moves. Sure, some moves flat out beat it in terms of priority but the moves come out pretty fast while being combo'd.

 

[MetaKnight0]

"some moves flat out beat it in terms of priority"

a lot of moves

marth is an example because nair will get you out of exactly none of his combos

 

[Alex Night]

"some moves flat out beat it in terms of priority"

a lot of moves

marth is an example because nair will get you out of exactly none of his combos

then Mewtwo has Fair to get him out of Marth's combos. Like I said, it's the speed of when Mewtwo can react with Nair or Fair while being combo'd at low to mid percents that is worrisome. I'm not talking about priority here.

 

[MetaKnight0]

it is about priority though because a lot of moves that can combo also have priority

and im not talking about fair because yes it can actually do what you're saying

im talking about nair because nair is **** tier for escaping out of combos in PM uair is a much better choice now

 

[Man Li Gi]

then Mewtwo has Fair to get him out of Marth's combos. Like I said, it's the speed of when Mewtwo can react with Nair or Fair while being combo'd at low to mid percents that is worrisome. I'm not talking about priority here.

Who uses Nair to escape combos? I thought most people use it to START/END combos. Nair has too small of a range to end combos. Fair and Uair have always (since Melee) been better combo breakers (at least in my humble opinion).

 

[Alex Night]

Who uses Nair to escape combos? I thought most people use it to START/END combos. Nair has too small of a range to end combos. Fair and Uair have always (since Melee) been better combo breakers (at least in my humble opinion).

It's a good option really. I've been fighting a Mewtwo main in my group and he uses Nair or Fair to escape combos because he can use it quickly before I can either extend a combo or try to end it. I use Mario and Link often. Whenever I use Uptilt two times from zero percent after a grab, Mewtwo can end the combo with Nair and Fair.

it is about priority though because a lot of moves that can combo also have priority

and im not talking about fair because yes it can actually do what you're saying

im talking about nair because nair is **** tier for escaping out of combos in PM uair is a much better choice now

When was I talking about priority in anything that I have said? I was talking about his ability to use Nair and Fair quickly after being hit by a combo extending move like Link's Uptilt for instance.

 

[Rikana]

I don't see any issues with his nAir and fAir.

 

[Man Li Gi]

It's a good option really. I've been fighting a Mewtwo main in my group and he uses Nair or Fair to escape combos because he can use it quickly before I can either extend a combo or try to end it. I use Mario and Link often. Whenever I use Uptilt two times from zero percent after a grab, Mewtwo can end the combo with Nair and Fair.

I personally don't use it to break combos. I know it comes out fast, but not Luigi nair fast with even worse range.

 

[MetaKnight0]

When was I talking about priority in anything that I have said? I was talking about his ability to use Nair and Fair quickly after being hit by a combo extending move like Link's Uptilt for instance.

you've just shown a fantastic example for why mewtwo's nair doesn't work as a combo breaker

link's up tilt

how does nair beat a properly spaced link up tilt?

it sounds more like you're doing something wrong instead of the mewtwo player doing something right

 

[Man Li Gi]

I am not the only who thinks the range is still too laughably low for the move to be warranted as a combo breaker.

 

[AstraEDM]

So it's pretty much been established that mewtwo is great against fastfallers, and to a lesser degree fatties, but he has problems doing combos against floatier characters and swords. I think making his tail disjointed/not have a hurtbox on certain moves like up and down tilt could help with swords. Thoughts?

 

[Man Li Gi]

So it's pretty much been established that mewtwo is great against fastfallers, and to a lesser degree fatties, but he has problems doing combos against floatier characters and swords. I think making his tail disjointed/not have a hurtbox on certain moves like up and down tilt could help with swords. Thoughts?

He was like that in Melee too. Anyway, a totally intangible tail? That sounds awesome, but many will complain how broken it is and how M2 already boxes out numerous characters (Kirby, the plumbers, Ness, Yoshi;etc).

 

[Alex Night]

He was like that in Melee too. Anyway, a totally intangible tail? That sounds awesome, but many will complain how broken it is and how M2 already boxes out numerous characters (Kirby, the plumbers, Ness, Yoshi;etc).

Yeah, his tail is long enough as it is. Pikachu's tail is intangible on his Up air which is okay considering Pikachu's reach isn't overbearing. For somebody like Mewtwo to have intangible tail... Yeah, just no on that one. That's the last thing that Mewtwo needs. Speaking of swords, it seems that Mewtwo is weak to Steel type in Project M like Marth, Ike, or Link.... Who knew? #kappa

 

[Man Li Gi]

Since M2 plays mid range game which all three mentioned above play at, it is no surprise that his worst MU is against those 3. Ike can be beaten tho, since he does have a bad recovery and can get comboed (to lesser extent Link can too).

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i think this character is boring as ****

I'd like to see some more interesting move properties. Maybe it's just me, but Disable is mewtwo's only interesting move, js.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Me too, but they cannot add any new particles for my future sight idea. Still this is M2, a character I like either way.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Who do you main?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Me too, but they cannot add any new particles for my future sight idea. Still this is M2, a character I like either way.

Fair enough I guess. I just feel with all the work they put into him they could have made him more exciting. lawl

Who do you main?

Are... you asking me specifically? I don't main anyone since I've only just gotten into P:M (I'm a bit late I know).

Trying to learn the basics is hard; but my main focus at the moment is creating frame data threads for all the characters who do not have one. At the very least I believe this will make me get better at the game much faster than playing CPUs will (especially after I learn the basics. I have L-Cancelling down, but wavedashing is hard to me)

 

[DrinkingFood]

Are... you asking me specifically? I don't main anyone since I've only just gotten into P:M (I'm a bit late I know).

yes I'm asking you
well whoever it will be, I think that character is boring as ****
they need more interesting move properties, their only interesting move is *most interesting move here*, js.
There, how does it feel

 

[Man Li Gi]

yes I'm asking you
well whoever it will be, I think that character is boring as ****
they need more interesting move properties, their only interesting move is *most interesting move here*, js.
There, how does it feel

Why are you so offended? I do feel that Sakurai decided to cut out a lot M2's potential moveset in favor to make him more "normal". I guess Aerodrome feels the same way I do.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

yes I'm asking you
well whoever it will be, I think that character is boring as ****
they need more interesting move properties, their only interesting move is *most interesting move here*, js.
There, how does it feel

lawl, im sorry ;___;

I just honestly think that Mewtwo's normal attacks are terribly unimaginative.

Apart from his specials, a large majority of his attacks are "here let me swing my tail in your general direction to do damage" and I think that that is just terrible design.

 

[DrinkingFood]

lawl, im sorry ;___;

I just honestly think that Mewtwo's normal attacks are terribly unimaginative.

Apart from his specials, a large majority of his attacks are "here let me swing my tail in your general direction to do damage" and I think that that is just terrible design.

I actually kind of agree. Nair and shadow claw are pretty ****ing cool though. dsmash/fsmash are just "psychic explosions" but they're def better than the tail attacks. Usmash probably has the highest ratio of coolness-factor-to-utility, not because of a particularly high coolness factor but because of a particularly low utility compared to his other moves. I still wish it worked kinda like a disc-of-death-high-hitting-only-overhead-grinder move like peach's dsmash but only catching characters right above him or jumping into him. But that's a lot to ask; still, I really do think that atleast ftilt should get an animation change, it's his most boring and most useless tilt, so if any quirks are lost in the animation transition they woun't have been particularly valuable, and the change will contribute to a better overall animation design. Bair could be a hell of a lot cooler too, but fully replicating the utility while changing the animation would be a little awkward, the same applies for a lot of his tail moves.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Honestly you could improve bair just by having his tail flash white during the animation.

Boom, Iron Tail.

 

[DrinkingFood]

But then it would need a cool new sound effect
That sound effect when something suddenly becomes steel, I think it's in the pokemon games?
No doubt it's different between gens, but I have a very particular sound effect in my head and no way to describe it.
Might be a little over the top for such a spammable move though, to hear that used repeatedly as he walls somebody out or gimps them to death.

A cooler option for bair would be to do away with the tail swing completely, make it into a psychic attack.
He swings around wildly, not unlike Ike's bair, but rather than swinging a sword, he swings just his arm (whichever one is on the rotating side) and from it releases a stream of psychic energy (or whatever it is...?) that functions in the same way as his tail, but with static hitboxes that cover the full area his tail swings through for the duration hit tail hitboxes normally last. It's a slight buff in that the full area is covered the whole time instead of wherever his tail is in the vertical plane, but because his tail swings pretty quickly normally during his current bair anyways, it's only marginally better. What's important is the coolness factor. Now that would be pleasing to push somebody offstage with, for sure. Or maybe the idea is cooler to me because I've been taken away in my imagination. Quite the feat considering I hardly have one.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Welp, as a personal opinion, Mewtwo's sound effects on his tail attacks are *really* lackluster. They really don't sound like meaty hits at all.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Welp, as a personal opinion, Mewtwo's sound effects on his tail attacks are *really* lackluster. They really don't sound like meaty hits at all.

Yeah, I kinda dislike that they used his Melee sounds directly. SD Remix did his tail SFX much better justice.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I still wish it worked kinda like a disc-of-death-high-hitting-only-overhead-grinder move like peach's dsmash but only catching characters right above him or jumping into him. But that's a lot to ask

I think that this would be relatively easy to do by giving hitboxes the ability to hit grounded or aerial opponents. The hitboxes that only hit the grounded opponents could have a downwards trajectory (i assume this stuff works the same as in Brawl), while the aerial only hitboxes could act like Zelda's up smash but deal more damage than the grounded only hitboxes, if you gave his arm a bit of intangibility, bam you have a fantastic anti-air move that looks ****in' cool and is actually useful. You could then make the last hits the same with launch power etc simply by toggling the air/ground bit off.

Also I agree that sound effects suck.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Actually, when I said high-hitting-only, I didn't mean aerial-only opponents. Yeah, you can make hitboxes that work that way, but I was only referring to the hitbox placement. What I really meant was, as a trade-off for giving it ridiculous damage when DI'd poorly and a silly angle (all like peach's dsmash), the only hitboxes would be ones too high to hit grounded opponents (they'd have to SH first or come down from the air/a platform) and maybe one on his arm that can hit only hit grounded opponents when spaced ridiculously close and if they aren't short/crouching. It's already kind of like this, in terms of spacing, but I'm talking about taking it to more of an extreme. It'd be a niche move like it is now, more so perhaps, but it'd fill its niche ridiculously well by providing great damage.

You know that screaming noise Fox makes in Melee when he tries to CC peach's dsmash at high percents, or if he's underneath her on a low FoD platform when she dsmashes? Yeah, the "GWAH-GAH-GAH-GAH-GWAAAGH" of an animal in pain? I want to hear that on MewTwo's upsmash, too.

 

[AstraEDM]

I'm also for improving the upsmash. I love it now but it's just a tad weak. The evil galaxy grinder multihit that drinkingfood is describing would be perfect to make it an even better OOs option and a combo finisher/damage racker