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Changes you'd like to see in Mewtwo

Diddy Kong

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General thread of changes we'd like to see happen for our favorite psychotic genetically-mutated cat. :mewtwopm:

This is NO complaint thread, I genuinely love what the PM team did to change Mewtwo around! Hovering, Teleport-combos and other overall buffs are all appriciated! BUT: Mewtwo was such a controversial character in Melee and dissapointing to many that many have had great ideas to change Mewtwo around. This thread serves to put these ideas togheter to create that awesome Mewtwo 'you wish you encountered in that cave'.

I would like to see:

-Faster running speed, matching :pikachu2: . Like in the Melee SD Remix.
-Enourmous increase in weight. :link2: / :falconmelee: weight seems appriopriate to me considering Mewtwo's size and him being a floaty. At the very least he should weight more than :ivysaur: and :lucario:.
-'Shadow Claw' hitboxes. When Shadow Ball is fully charged, all attacks featuring the 'Shadow Claw' have increased range, damage and knockback.
-More buffs in Neutral Air. Especially in range, priority and damage output.
-Disable working like in Melee SD Remix (doing 12% damage) or better: replace the move all-toghter. I personally would've liked to see a move similar to :lucas:'s Offense Up. As it's said Mewtwo always focusses it's energy to fight it's foes at full power right?
-Confusion becoming Psychic, and being a ranged command grab, like :bowser2:'s Brawl Side B, but ranged. Could also serve as a reflector move, as it currently does. Powerful move, but would be a tad hard to hit. Would make Mewtwo fearsome as he's supposed to be.
-Even stronger Throws. Especially B-Throw, but U-Throw I wouldn't mind killing earlier either. Just cause.
-Tail's hurtbox becomes much smaller.
-Far better grab range. FAR better.

I'd like to see other ideas! :mewtwomelee:
 

Kally Wally

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-Enourmous increase in weight. :link2: / :falconmelee: weight seems appriopriate to me considering Mewtwo's size and him being a floaty. At the very least he should weight more than :ivysaur: and :lucario:.
I invite you to check out Nguz's Mewtwo PSA. Granted, he cranked it all the way up to Ganon weight, but still - a character with a nigh-ungimpable recovery has no business being particularly heavy.
 

Shadow Huan

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I would agree that the only characters that have any business being grapplers are Bowser, DK and Mewtwo

Mewtwo's side B being a grappling move that has 4 options instead of 2 would be pretty boss. if any character could have 8 different throw moves it should be the freaking telekenetic that doesn't even touch the ground when it walks or runs... balancing could be a challenge though
 

Diddy Kong

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Well I personally wouldn't mind if it did the exact same damage output as Bowser's Side B. Perhaps with a longer animation, to make it an excellent move in 1 vs 1, but less so in Team Battles. Maybe that way it can afford to be stronger to. Given Mewtwo wouldn't be able to suicide with it for example. Knockback should still be the same, but higher damage would be no problem if the move is slightly harder to preform. It could have good range, but would be slightly risky to preform. With super armor though, cause I don't want Falco to ruin Mewtwo's days with lasers. The beginning animation would be similar to Confusion, but when Mewtwo gets a hold of it's opponent, his eyes flash blue and then he slams his opponents hard into the ground, which at any given % does maximum hitstun and about 20~22% damage.


I invite you to check out Nguz's Mewtwo PSA. Granted, he cranked it all the way up to Ganon weight, but still - a character with a nigh-ungimpable recovery has no business being particularly heavy.

Tell that to vBrawl King Dedede and Snake. A slightly heavier Mewtwo, say, Link-weight wouldn't nearly live as long as them. Mewtwo in this way still wouldn't even live as long as Melee Samus would, or perhaps even. I think that's about fair.
 

Diddy Kong

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Maybe we should wait until AFTER he is released to talk about changing him.

Yes of coarse that's the most logical thing to do, but hey: this is Mewtwo we're talking about. We all have at least some ideas on what would make the character better. Let's just say this is more of a hype thread to see changes in Mewtwo. Yeah sure, it's best to talk about changes when Mewtwo's actually out. But I don't think the PM team really is gonna change all that much in terms of moveset when the character is already out won't they? It's not like, PM version 3.5 will have Mewtwo's Confusion or Disable replaced. Just throwing out ideas.

Also the Mewtwo thread in the Smash 4 section has turned horrible.
 

ItalianStallion

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I had a long list of ideas for Mewtwo I posted for the first time in Smashmods a while back. I guess I could post it here again.


Jab: His jab should not go into that multi-hit combo. I think the best buff to his jab will be to make it a 1-2 combo. It should come out quicker than it does in Melee, but it doesn't have to come out super quick. As far as animation, an interesting idea I had was for Mewtwo to stay in his regular standing animation when he jabbed and instead have him hit them with his mind. This would be an interesting buff since the opponent doesn't have a visual cue as to when Mewtwo starts the jab (Of course they'll know when they get hit however). If that wasn't well received, perhaps just keep the animation similar to melee with him striking out with his hands with the glowing purple stuff.

Down Tilt: The only change this move needs from Melee is for it have slightly less end lag/startup lag. It came out quick-ish in Melee, but I think a small buff to it's speed would be fine for Project M. Animation-wise it should stay the same.

Forward Tilt: The only change this move needs is more of a "solid" hit. I'm not sure if that had to do with the sweetspot, or the damage or what-not but sometimes the move felt like it wasn't solidly hitting the opponent. Animation-wise it should stay the same.

Up Tilt: Some people have been saying that Mewtwo shouldn't use his tail so much due to the fact that he is a Psychic Pokemon. I think that is a fair point, but I think that getting rid of all his tail animations would be a turn-off to the Melee Mewtwo veterans. However, if the rest of the Mewtwo veterans are anything like myself, they wouldn't mind getting rid of the tail animation for Mewtwo's up tilt and his uair. So with this in mind, Mewtwo's new up tilt should be a basic psychic push up. He'll raise his hand in the air and emit a pulse of psychic energy. Decent hitbox, ok damage, decent juggling capabilities, and good overhead coverage.

Down Smash: Keep it like it was in Melee except make it come out slightly quicker and give it a slightly bigger hitbox. The same animation from Melee.

Up Smash: I love the animation from Melee, so in order to keep in that spirit, make his usmash have a similar animation except make the purple stuff (The hitbox) bigger. Also have it come out and end slightly quicker. Basically make it more like Zelda's usmash in Project M, but perhaps a little worse.

Side Smash: Give this move a new animation. Instead of using both of his hands to side smash, Mewtwo will only use one hand. Purple stuff will be at the end, but make the hitbox better than how it was in Melee. Other than that it can stay the same.

Dash Attack: Admittedly a hard one for me. I think that whatever happens to this move, a new animation is a must. It could work similarly to how it works in Melee except with a new animation and a much better hitbox, and more knockback/damage. However, I think it would be cool for the move to instead be less of an attack, and more of a movement option. Basically have Mewtwo's dash attack be a fast dash forward with a psychic barrier in front of him. It would do minimal to no damage, however the shield would reflect projectiles. This gives Mewtwo a quick dash option forward while also giving him some protection against projectiles. However, due to the move being a semi-worthless attack, using it as such would be an easy grab opportunity for your opponent. Also, unlike Lucario's down b, the move wouldn't go past a standing opponent.

Grab Range: Make it better than Melee, but not overpowered.

Grab Speed: Again, better than Melee, but not overpowered. I don't remember his grab speed being too terrible anyways.

Up Throw: Exactly like Melee.

Back Throw: Exactly like Melee.

Down Throw: Exactly like Melee.

Forward Throw: I love the animation, but the move was terrible mechanically. Upping the damage to make the move worthwhile would be a good buff. However, because of the new side b move I am going to suggest, this move would not have to be changed much from it's Melee version.

Jump: His first jump is OK. No need to change it from Melee.

Double Jump: While the height was amazing, his double jump is way too slow. It needs to be quicker. Perhaps giving it a new animation would help. Also, keep the rising aerial technique.

DJC: Don't get rid of it.

Neutral Air: Keep it like Melee except give it less landing lag.

Forward Air: DrinkingFood said it best:
(07/11/2012 06:32 PM)DrinkingFood Wrote: Or they could keep the ShadowClaw and give it a slightly larger hitbox (he is psychic, we know he doesn't really hit with those tiny little arms anyways, it's psychic force), with better combo potential.

Back Air: Keep it like Melee, except make it quicker (Less start-up lag).

Up Air: The tail animation can be taken out. In it's place, Mewtwo will instead do an animation where he emits a psychic blast above him (Similar to his utilt). Animation wise, it will be different because Mewtwo will not use his hands, but instead hold them out to his side, looking at the screen menacingly as he emits the blast. The move will be quick (Making it a good option for DJC'ing), and good for juggling and overhead coverage.

Down Air: This one is another tricky one. I would suggest changing the animation and instead making it a psychic push downward. Mewtwo will push down with his hand and emit a pulse of psychic energy (The animation could be his hand pushing down in between his legs to make it look like his is putting a lot of force in the attack). Make it a decent meteor, but it doesn't need to be spectacular. The biggest thing is making the move quick with a decent hitbox.

Now for the fun part: Mewtwo's special moves.

Up Special: Mewtwo's up b doesn't need to be changed much. Make it exactly like Melee except maybe give him the ability to airdodge/waveland out of it like Zelda. That would be cool.

Neutral Special: Assuming that they can add in projectiles, Shadowball could stay in. To differentiate it from the Melee version, and from Lucario's, it could behave slightly differently. Have his baby shadowballs be similar to Melee, except make it so he can waveland out of them like Wolf. Make his big Shadowball travel faster, like Samus's charged shot. Besides that, this move wouldn't need to much. Oh! Also, keeping the push-back Mewtwo receives from the larger shots is a must. And the glowing purple hands.

If they can't add in projectiles, his neutral b could be a Lucas-esque charge-up move. Instead of charging up his smashes however, It would charge up his killing throws: up throw and back throw. Basically the first up throw or back throw Mewtwo uses after charging will get increased damage and knockback and knockback growth (If those are the correct terms). This will allow him to get those critical up throw and back throw kills much quicker. The reason why it wouldn't affect other throws is because a Mewtwo player wouldn't want to waste the effects of the charge on one of the probable many down throws he was going to use to rack up damage on the opponent. And it wouldn't effect forward throw because after what I am going to suggest for side b, his forward throw will be a viable option to rack up damage as well. Animation-wise, Mewtwo's hands will glow with electrical energy after charging and the up throw or back throw the charge is used on will get a cool electrical effect as well. (Imagine Mewtwo's already epic up throw with electrical effects)


Down Special: I believe that if they are able to code shadowball in, then this move could be the charge move instead. If not however and the charge move is neutral b, then this move would have to be different.

One idea is to have the move be a buffed version of his Melee down b, but I find that idea to be sort of lame. However, it's an idea, and if done right could be cool.

Another idea is to have his down be mix up the opponent's controls. It's interesting, but I think that would be very difficult to code.

Personally, if the shadowball wasn't able to be put in, and the charge-up move was Mewtwo's neutral b, I think the best thing to do with his down b would be to make it be similar to Charizard's down smash. It would be a psychic slam that would launch opponent's in the air. However it would have low knockback growth (Again, if that's the correct term), so it would be less of a kill move and more of a combo starter. Animation-wise Mewtwo could slam his tail into the ground and then you would see a psychic pulse come up from the ground.

Now for my most radical suggestion: side special.

Side Special: Side b is one that I ended up getting inspiration for from the first pokemon movie. During the fight between Mew and Mewtwo, Mewtwo creates a blue shield around himself. So I wanted to give a nod to that in my moveset. I decided that side special will be like my proposed dash attack in that it's more of a movement option than an actual attack.

So basically, Mewtwo dashes diagonally forward and up with his blue shield thing around him. Like his dash attack, this move will be a respectably quick movement option with either no attack, or a tiny attack at the end of it. His shield will also reflect projectiles during the move like the new dash attack (We could even make dash attack's shield the blue shield from the movie as well).

So, what else about this new side b? Well, Mewtwo can jump cancel out of it, similar to Ike's side b. Therefore Mewtwo can wavedash/waveland out of it as well. However, unlike Ike's, Mewtwo's can't be charged, so the distance can't be lengthened from that. He can shorten the distance though by jump cancelling. The distance of the move isn't tremendously far (Think like if Mewtwo used it from the middle of Yoshi's story, it would take him to the middle of one of the side platforms. That gives a good idea of length and height). Also, Mewtwo can't press A to attack out of it. And once he uses side b, whether from the ground, or mid air, he can't use it again until he touches the ground.

Now for the really radical part. If Mewtwo presses b during this move when next to an opponent, he will execute a mid-air grab. Now to make this different from Lucario's, Mewtwo's mid-air grab will not be a kill move. Instead, Mewtwo will grab and throw the opponent diagonally down behind him. Also, Mewtwo will not physically grab the opponent, he will use psychic energy. Also, if Mewtwo decides to use the b mid-air grab from side b, he can't jump after the mid air grab, but he can airdodge, waveland, and up b as well as his aerials and what not.

Basically, imagine this scenario. Mewtwo grabs his opponent, he forward throws. After that, he follows up with a side b and presses b when next to his opponent to use his mid-air psychic throw. He throws the opponent diagonally down behind him (Basically where he started the forward throw in the first place). Mewtwo is able to follow up with a teleport just barely before the opponent hits the ground, but the opponent techs. Fortunately, the opponent teched towards Mewtwo, so Mewtwo wavedashes and tech chases for the easy regrab.

So what does this move help? Well, it helps a whole bunch. It gives Mewtwo a new quick movement option that allows for decent options out of it, a way to deal with projectiles (Sort of, along with Dash Attack), a new way to combo, a way to follow up forward throw, a boost to his recovery, and most importantly, a new way to approach. I think it would be his biggest buff of my proposed changes.

Mewtwo's match-ups against those who could stay diagonally above and in front of him (*cough* Peach! *cough*) were horrendously bad. He had no way to approach them. Basically this new side b allows for a way to approach them. That being said, even though it has high reward (Mid air grab), it isn't tremendously safe due to the lack of a hitbox/decent hitbox on the move. Basically it requires smart play and careful timing to use correctly.
Also, there are ways to use this mid-air grab as a kill move, but it would basically require the Mewtwo player to use it off the stage to the side, so that when he did the mid-air throw, he would throw the opponent down and behind him off the stage where the side b was originally started. Of course this move wouldn't be a spike, but it would be decent-ish if someone wanted to mix up and use it as a kill move that way. It would probably depend on the recovery of the person they were using it against.


Of course, I'm just so hyped they got Mewtwo in Project M, I'm going to enjoy the character regardless of his move-set. Also, some of these ideas I would probably edit or revamp a tiny bit. I wrote this a while ago.
 

Rikana

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I feel like a lot of the suggestions will make him overly strong. I personally don't like spoonfeeding players; I like having that struggle and weakness remain in tact so people are forced to think of other solutions on how to work around the issue.

I'm pretty content on how he is at the moment (based on the current backroom build), but that might just be my bias talking because I feel like I contributed a lot to Mewtwo (obviously not as much as people who went through weeks of work) in terms of my contributions in the project.
 

ItalianStallion

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Well, I personally enjoy where he is at right now too. Would I have made the exact same design choices as the PMBR did with him? Probably not, but after seeing where the character ended up, I'm impressed (Especially with Hover. That is so fricken cool!). And who's to say my design choices would have been good? I mean, for all I know, my ideas might have been terrible if implemented.

And the first time I got into this project, the main thing I wanted was a buffed (Equalized) Mewtwo to be playable. As a Melee Mewtwo main, it was disheartening to have my favorite character also be unviable.

Since you guys succeeded, the release of 3.0 will be like the combination of all the Christmas mornings I have ever experienced.
 

Diddy Kong

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An idea I always liked for Mewtwo's Down B is it becoming a barrier of sorts. A small wall of protection, which would reflect projectiles, and would give Mewtwo far better defensive tools.

I don't think these suggestions make Mewtwo overly strong either. Even if they'd take some inspiration from these suggestions, there's always still :foxmelee: & :falcomelee:. It's looking like Mewtwo will keep a lot of his Melee weaknesses as well. And it's already been said he will have terrible trouble with swords.

Really think his Grab range should be buffed. Am not getting why people say Mewtwo should still be bad to appeal to Melee players?
 

Rikana

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Mewtwo is most definitely not bad anymore, rest assured. But he won't be easy to use like everyone has mentioned. With that being said, Mewtwo will have some BnB's with fAir and dTilt.
 

DrinkingFood

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He definitely needs hip hitboxes on all his tail moves. MewTwo has always used his tail as a spacing tool, much like any swordsmens' swords. But all the swordsmen get (usually slightly weaker) shoulder or hip hitboxes on there attack (depending on where they swing from) to prevent them from having a ******** blind spot right on top of them. MewTwo should get the same treatment. Maybe his sweetspots could get some reworking to reflect the fact that his tail attacks now have four hitboxes instead of only 3.

And I'm gonna keep saying it. Usmash doesn't need to just be "Okay... I guess it's not unusable now..." it needs to be ****ing amazing, it's probably mewtwo's second coolest looking move after his melee fthrow (a shame both were useless, and that it's not possible to properly put old fthrow in P:M). Make the disc wider and taller, give it properties similar to peach's dsmash, but rather than being anti-CC and anti-anti-platform (yes that's a double negative, it makes sense here) like peach's dsmash is, make it anti-air and anti-platform. Just think about it. Is there not a cooler name than Galaxy Grinder? Yes, we should call the move that... but only if it shares the grinding properties of that original grinder.

Make his dair kind of like ganondorf's. Yeah okay, maybe not quite that good. But, give it more power (I think they already did this) and an electric hitlag effect. The animation is great, seeing MewTwo casually fold his arms and flip around while sticking his foot out as if "Whoops, didn't see ya there", but the effects, both on the opponent and the visual/audio feedback just do not meet that. Granted, electric hitlag makes it easier to DI, but it also makes hit confirmation better on the part of the MewTwo player, especially what with that move being difficult to hit with. It'd be more of combo move in that case, which I'm fine with, especially if PMBR wants to keep it a meteor and not a spike.

also fix that tiny ass hand hitbox on his DA, wtf have you seen that ****, no really go to the M2 melee hitboxes thread

If he can't act out of his grounded teleport ending much quicker, I don't know why, that would just be stupid on PMBR's part to make the aerial ending so much better while leaving the grounded ending still a terrible 30-frame opening.

The rest of what has been done I like and/or see the necessity for, although I wish PMBR had found a good way to make his DJ/hover work like peach's where one doesn't exhaust the other, but I guess this is the easiest way to prevent his recovery from being too much more ridiculous. Maybe get rid of the bonus height from doing an aerial after a DJ? idk...
 

Mr.Pickle

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My suggested changes aren't that extreme, especially in comparison to the others here. My first suggestion is to make the claw animation on his fair match more closely with the extra range it got. The extra range is good, but when I can clearly see the additional effect on his fair animation to reflect the increase of range, I expect the hitbox to end there, not go another hand past it. Makes it confusing for both you and your opponent.

My next suggestion is to give an animation indicating the general location of his launcher hit boxes on his usmash. Again its a great addition to make the move more viable, but I believe an animation indicating where it is, or for that matter its existence, would make it less visually confusing. An example could be as follows, dark energy starting at the ground, then it swirls up him, and as it goes up, the effect gets thinner and closer to his body. Until finally it snakes its way up his arm, and into the galaxy he is holding.

Because I will never win the argument of removing acting out of teleport, I at least think that if he is going to have both offensive and deffensive capabilities with it, maybe one of the aspects of it might need to be toned down a little. Maybe in the form of shortening the time he is invincible, an increase to landing lag, or maybe adding a frame before he can act of it. Its not broken as it is currently, but if mew2 is going to be able to do both, they both can't be ridiculous. There has to be a balance between the two.

Lastly, with regards to his weight, yes an increase is good, but not falcon/link levels, around sheik or ness weight is perfect for him. For those of you that don't know, I'll give you the numbers so its easier to put it in perspective. His original melee weight is 85 (tied with roy and young link), while sheik is 90 (tied with peach and zelda) and ness is at 94, which I think is around where his weight is at currently. Now falcon and link are at 104, making them the 6th/7th heaviest characters in melee, and though project m has a couple more characters to think about, thats still an impressive weight increase. Since he'll never worry about being killed off the side, because of his amazing recovery, the character, like rikana said, needs some kind of weakness. So getting killed early off the top, but not as absurd of a percent as before, is a reasonable weakness.
 

Diddy Kong

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The 'Shadow Claw' should be disjointed, and overall, I love the ideas DrinkingFood suggested! I also agree the Up Smash really needs a buff, it's an awesome looking move. I prefer the Forward Smash, but Up Smash is awesome to. Both should be disjointed I feel. And with high priority. It doesn't make sence how a sword can pierce through a pure wave of darkness / psychic energy as easily as it does in Melee.

D Air becoming stronger I also would like. Ganon-like strenght isn't even that bad, seeing as the move is just as slow as Ganon's with worse hitboxes.

Dash attack also needs some significant buffs yeah.

Honestly, it feels like Melee Mewtwo was nerfed on purpose. They knew Mewtwo probably had some great combo-ability, so they did their best to include many weaknesses to him, which killed the character in the end. I wish the PM team didn't share this mentality with the Melee developers.
 

Kally Wally

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It doesn't make sence how a sword can pierce through a pure wave of darkness / psychic energy as easily as it does in Melee.
Swords are sharp and made of metal. The things that can't be cut by them are close to none.

Also, Up-Smash and F-Smash are already disjointed, or at least F-Smash is, and it would be weird for Up-Smash's galaxy to have a hurtbox. If what Pickle is saying about Fair is accurate, it's also disjointed, so I really have no idea what you mean. Unless you're saying "it should be" as in "this is how it is and I agree with that" instead of "it should be this way."
 

DrinkingFood

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My suggested changes aren't that extreme
but only the upsmash one was any kind of extreme
and that's only if you consider extreme to be something that's beyond what already exists, which it isn't because peach's dsmash
why can't mewtwo have stupid things too :c pmbr pls, the galaxy grinder needs to be a thing, and it needs the melee THUD SFX
 

Mr.Pickle

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I was being general drinkingfood, lol I wasn't trying to call you out or anything. Honestly I'd rather mew2 not have anything stupid, but thats probably wishful thinking on my part, unfortunately.
 

DrinkingFood

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I was being general drinkingfood, lol I wasn't trying to call you out or anything. Honestly I'd rather mew2 not have anything stupid, but thats probably wishful thinking on my part, unfortunately.
everybody deserves something stupid
mewtwo's teleport is actually already stupid, but I don't mean the quick ending into aerials, I mean the quick ground ending. If his floatiness, double jump, melee teleport, and 2-3 momentum changing special (depending on charge of shadow ball) didn't make him hard enough to combo, his hover, improved attacks, and little grounded endlag/no special fall ending on his P:M teleport in addition to those things will.

personally I think my mewtwo design(s) would be cooler, not because he'd be more fun to play, but because he'd be less frustrating to play against. that's biased and untestable tho
 

SmashBroski

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-Enourmous increase in weight. :link2: / :falconmelee: weight seems appriopriate to me considering Mewtwo's size and him being a floaty. At the very least he should weight more than :ivysaur: and :lucario:.
How would a weight similar to :warioc: sound and compare to :link2:/:falcon:? A weight like :ganondorf: might be pushing it, but I agree with the fact that :mewtwopm: should be heavier than :ivysaur: and :lucario:, maybe even heavier than :charizard:... or would that be too much?
 

Diddy Kong

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Wario would indeed be ideal! Thought it might´ve been pushing it with Mewtwo´s Godly recovery, but still it´s not a bad idea. Think Charizard should be a bit heavier though. Not cause of canon, but cause Charizard is a lot slower and more clumsy than Mewtwo in Smash thusfar.

He should indeed exceed Ivysaur and Lucario in weight because just what the ****?
 

Rikana

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^
answered many times already. It's no longer than Melee's tail. The slimmer torso with same size tail illusionistically makes it look longer.
 

GeZ

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This thread is silly.

When the character comes out, give him a whirl. Immerse yourself in the difficulty of feeling like your in control of this powerful psychic monster, while realizing that the more control over the character you have, so too do you gain more control over the flow of the match. Realize he is a difficult to learn, DIFFICULT to master character. And in all of this, stop making silly recommendations that the character doesn't need.

Like seriously, all zen manerism joking aside, his toolset is already a bit on the too dominant side. He'll definitely have his weaknesses from melee, but the implemented buffs compliment him so well half of his new tools could be considered DrinkingFood brand "stupid".
Galaxy Grinder might as well be a magic goddamn carpet above his head for how impossible it is to move through/ hit through/ do anything but come into contact with and weep.
His moves practically space themselves, as he has tools to deal with opponents at any range. I've blown up people with Usmash who thought that they were safe from my disgustingly long tail.
SPEAKING OF THE TAIL have you guys even seen that *******? Why not make Mewtwo outrange everything for fun, cover every possible hostile trajectory with psychic energy and tail based hate. It's an incredible tool. I've landed freaking teleport xx Bair xx grab out of hitstun. It shouldn't have combo'd but **** it, I took Marth to the top of the screen with my mental swagger and shadow clawed him off for good measure.

What I'm trying to get across is that the information showed thus fair may be giving you guys an improper gauge of how the character fairs (haha) in the metagame, and that you guys should trust the PMBR to develop the character the right way to leave room for equal parts character and player ability.

Also you should stop making suggestions to change the character because most of them are ridiculous as they would be unhelpful/ dumb if implemented :150:
 

DrinkingFood

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DrinkingFood brand "stupid".
what do you call moves that have existed since melee and still do in PM that are at least that stupid or more so? I mean, what brand? Clearly the point of the call out was to differentiate from the other brands of stupid that PMBR seems to be fond enough of to keep in the game.
 

GeZ

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what do you call moves that have existed since melee and still do in PM that are at least that stupid or more so? I mean, what brand? Clearly the point of the call out was to differentiate from the other brands of stupid that PMBR seems to be fond enough of to keep in the game.
When I said that, I was actually implying that P:M Mewtwo already has some stuff like that. I just like the phrase Drinking Food brand "stupid" since it's the easiest way to reference stuff that's too good, though I can see how it could be taken the wrong way... Sorry dude! Didn't mean it that way!
 

DrinkingFood

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When I said that, I was actually implying that P:M Mewtwo already has some stuff like that. I just like the phrase Drinking Food brand "stupid" since it's the easiest way to reference stuff that's too good, though I can see how it could be taken the wrong way... Sorry dude! Didn't mean it that way!
that's fair enough, but I wasn't really taking offense, more like trying to make a point, which was "if PMBR lets other characters keep their stupid things, why not let M2 have some too?"
Have you played with NewTwo? Does his Usmash cover more space and last a little longer than half the graphical effects now? That **** ended way too early in Melee. Does it also do more damage by any chance?
 

GeZ

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that's fair enough, but I wasn't really taking offense, more like trying to make a point, which was "if PMBR lets other characters keep their stupid things, why not let M2 have some too?"
Have you played with NewTwo? Does his Usmash cover more space and last a little longer than half the graphical effects now? That **** ended way too early in Melee. Does it also do more damage by any chance?
It lasts the whole duration. I've had people accidently walk onto it and be righteously sucked up and ground to paste. And it's really large. It can creep into platforms and melt peoples feetsies for good measure.
 

GeZ

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Please enlighten me, what about his up-tilt? Doesn't it seem a little to good to you guys? Every time i've seen it in use it just straight-up says f u to anybody coming down, or is it too fast? please tell me why this move isn't straight up bonkers
It's pretty crazy, hits fast and juggles well while covering a large area, but I don't think it has crazy disjoint so characters with good range on their aerials could probably out poke it.
 

DrinkingFood

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what is you definition of something being too good? You do know marth has the same thing but with more effective reach, right? Something being too good implies that it needs to be changed for the good of the game, and I just have a hard time seeing that with M2's mediocre version of marth's utilt.
 

Strong Badam

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Please enlighten me, what about his up-tilt? Doesn't it seem a little to good to you guys? Every time i've seen it in use it just straight-up says f u to anybody coming down, or is it too fast? please tell me why this move isn't straight up bonkers
Well on the Objective Scale of Too Good, it seems like you're putting it at a 57 which is above the threshold (of 50) but myself and many others believe it's at a modest 37, so you clearly need to re-analyze your grading procedure.
 

Mr.Pickle

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Considering how much coverage the move has, I think saying that mew2's utilt is a mediocre version of marth's, doesn't do the move justice. Its a pretty solid move imo. Fact of the matter is, we don't know for sure whether or not mew2's current design will be too much in the new 3.0 meta, but hopefully it will hold water. Even if it doesn't though, nothing is final just yet, so things about him might change.

On the subject of usmash, its actually pretty decent now. The move has always had a pretty fat hitbox, but now it has 2 new large launching hitboxes on both sides, and ends quite a bit sooner. Not exactly galaxy grinder, but its still a pretty good move.
 

Sixth-Sense

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Well on the Objective Scale of Too Good, it seems like you're putting it at a 57 which is above the threshold (of 50) but myself and many others believe it's at a modest 37, so you clearly need to re-analyze your grading procedure.

nahhhh i would if i've tried the character, but i haven't so i'm asking based on simple observation, in the future just answer without the useless nitpicking like so:
It's pretty crazy, hits fast and juggles well while covering a large area, but I don't think it has crazy disjoint so characters with good range on their aerials could probably out poke it.
but thanks anyways
 

Rikana

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You guys make it sound like the hitbox on the side of Mewtwo from uSmash is giant. It really isn't that large lol.
 

GeZ

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You guys make it sound like the hitbox on the side of Mewtwo from uSmash is giant. It really isn't that large lol.
It's not huge but it covers a good area. It makes sure people can't come over and tickle Mewtwo's armpits while he channels psychic energy.
 

Mr.Pickle

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You guys make it sound like the hitbox on the side of Mewtwo from uSmash is giant. It really isn't that large lol.

I never said it was giant, that would be lucas and ivy usmash level, but it does have a decent size to it. In general mew2 has good hitboxes and some of them have a fairly good disjoint, but he still is a tall freaky cat thing, so I guess it balances out lol.
 
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