Challenger Approaching!!! - Young Link Returns. [Codeset + Voice Change Included!]

[God of Humility]

K, so I put the fsmash animation on Young Link. It works fine and looks good. It could look more like a jump attack, but its okay. Try it if you want.
How I see the fsmash is as follow: YLink will essentially jump forward a bit and slash at the same time. Think jump attack in OoT. It will be one of his slowest attacks but a good finisher. Obviously, it won't be able to link to the second hit.

Is that good for an idea? I'll probably implement it sometimes this weekend as well as the other changes.

 

[agroves]

K, so I put the fsmash animation on Young Link. It works fine and looks good. It could look more like a jump attack, but its okay. Try it if you want.
How I see the fsmash is as follow: YLink will essentially jump forward a bit and slash at the same time. Think jump attack in OoT. It will be one of his slowest attacks but a good finisher. Obviously, it won't be able to link to the second hit.

Is that good for an idea? I'll probably implement it sometimes this weekend as well as the other changes.

I think: Very clever and different and I hope someone makes it perfect
P.S. By the way I just want to congratulate everyone for making young link so perfect! I didn't think it was even possible so thanks guys

 

[Zephron]

woah woah woah... is this PSA still being worked on? , because no affence but this thread is starting to get annoying ( but great PSA anyways.)

That made me kind of mad =__=

Just deal with it


Anyway, thanks for fixing his bair and fsmash. What happens if you put on Ike's fair? His fsmash is fine though.

Also, there are two hits for his fsmash? Can you make it only one?

We could try changing his fair, since YL's fair is somewhat a less useful move. According to TLM's list, he only leaves room for grabs, Fsmash, fair, and the dash attack.

I just really want to stress YL's individuality is all. And I didn't think what we have now is enough. Though the bair and fsmash changes are great steps in the right direction.

 

[God of Humility]

Anyway, thanks for fixing his bair and fsmash. What happens if you put on Ike's fair? His fsmash is fine though.

Also, there are two hits for his fsmash? Can you make it only one?

We could try changing his fair, since YL's fair is somewhat a less useful move. According to TLM's list, he only leaves room for grabs, Fsmash, fair, and the dash attack.

I just really want to stress YL's individuality is all. And I didn't think what we have now is enough. Though the bair and fsmash changes are great steps in the right direction.

When I put on Ike's fair, he does the animation just fine. I noticed no deformities. It looks good enough for the new fsmash.

I think the fair is good like it is. It is the complete opposite of Link's where the second hit is the most powerful because the first hit is the most powerful while the second is nearly useless. The fair, I believe, should not change animation.

What we can change I believe are the bair (maybe new animation), dash, fsmash, and tilts. Any suggestions.

But I see your point. YLink needs a gamebreaker. I just don't know how we could do that while keeping the essence of YLink.

 

[agroves]

Can someone please tell me what i should name the download files for young link? I've put them in the folder link but I don't know what to do next? e.g the motion files and etc PLEASE HELP

 

[GP&B]

FitLink.pac
FitLink00.pac (00, 01, 03, 04, 05, and 06 for the costumes)
FitLinkMotionEtc.pac

 

[agroves]

FitLink.pac
FitLink00.pac (00, 01, 03, 04, 05, and 06 for the costumes)
FitLinkMotionEtc.pac

Thanks It's working now.

 

[God of Humility]

K, so I tried to make the FSmash work, I did, but it does need a lot more polishing. I'll need your help to know exactly how. Maybe I'll try editing the animation, because it doesn't really look like a jump slash.

I changed the usmash and bair so they combo better, tell me what you think.

Size mod 0,85

http://www.mediafire.com/?zjnn4izwmgt

No size mod

http://www.mediafire.com/?a3wnzuzt3yf

Motion pac

http://www.mediafire.com/?zggkwywijyy

 

[Zephron]

My friend and I played YL dittos and YL matches a lot last night.
I got some replays which I might put up to prove my points.

I have a few balancing suggestions:

•Hookshot: Give it some more lag. It syncs with his dash attack effortlessly, and his dash attack is also broken.

•Dash Attack: This move has huge horizontal knockback and also comboes into itself. It's incredibly cheap. Keep the horizontal knockback but lessen it a bit and increase the lag slightly.

•Up Tilt: I love this move, but it's knockback is almost nonexistant and it has too much damage. I recommend for the damage to be cut drastically.

Right now you can grab the enemy, downthrow and do about 4 up tilts then an upsmash for a 40% unescapable combo.

•Up B Spike: Make this a weak spike. With his dtilt, fire spike, and up B, he has too many strong spike options. We were at the top of the screen on Pokemon Stadium, got Up B spiked, and he immediately did an Up B but couldn't live.

It's waay too strong. Weak Spike please.

• The down throw comboes into the fire spike. At almost any %. Increase the lag just a tiiiiiny bit maybe?


I love this character. But he does need some balancing.

If you guys want the video I will upload it. It pretty much shows everything I say is broken.

 

[God of Humility]

While I would like a video, I agree with you on mostly everything you said. I'll look at each problems thoroughly. Young Link is broken. Some of his attacks are too fast and combo without need of skill.

Did you try the new fsmash? Is so, what do you think of it? It really needs a lot of work. I think we should consider returning to the old one. At least the last one looked good.

As for completely changing moves, how about the bair? It isn't that important to Young Link and has some potential to be changed. It could become a fast backward slash or something.

 

[Zephron]

I'll get the video up later tonight.

And I haven't tried the new Fsmash. But I recommend keeping it.

We need a few more "unique-factors" for YL and frankly new animations and slightly altered moves are an important piece of that pie.

Obviously it needs work but that can be fixed while still having the benefits of the new move.

I think the bair should be kept but I recommend changing:

•1 of his B moves. Or at least make it slightly different, Like Ness and Lucas'.
WE NEED THIS.

• Tilts

• Fair, and maybe Uair

• Dash Attack

 

[Oni K4ge]

make the dash a forward roll, and if you press the A again, you do a straight forward thrust with your sword, like minish cap. also, maybe some sort of shield bump like twilight princess?

 

[God of Humility]

I like the idea for the dash attack. It would be very YLink-like.

As for different specials, don't you think they're different enough? Fire arrows, point blank boomerang, damage on boomerang return.... Maybe change hib bombs for Deku Nuts? (If we can make them not cheap.) The spin attack could also be tweaked. If we absolutely HAVE to completely change a special, I vote for down. But I think its good like that and no special has to change drastically.

I'd like to keep the fsmash attack, I'll see what I can do. Probably speed it up. People, try it and tell me what you think.

I really like the fair, its different enough, and the uair is key to his game. We should probably aim for tilts. The dtilt can be a downward stab or something. I don't know. Maybe I'll have to edit animations after all.

Another big part of differencing the Links is the FS. We should settle for an idea and make it at once.

 

[Zephron]

I don't want a completely changed special! I want a tweaked one!

You know like Ness and Lucas. They both have PK fire, but they act differently!

Yeah, we need a FS but we don't need it IMMEDIATELY.

I ADORE Oni's idea. But it sounds like a roll, so that's kind of weird. Maybe make something happen if you don't press A.

 

[God of Humility]

I don't want a completely changed special! I want a tweaked one!

You know like Ness and Lucas. They both have PK fire, but they act differently!

Yeah, we need a FS but we don't need it IMMEDIATELY.

I ADORE Oni's idea. But it sounds like a roll, so that's kind of weird. Maybe make something happen if you don't press A.

The specials are already tweaked. The arrows, boomerang, and spin attack are all different from the Links. Bombs aren't but that's a technical limitation.

I imagine the roll would do some weak damage. If you choose to attack out of it, you stab forward. The stab would be somewhat powerful, but would be a bit laggy. Think the stab out of roll from Twilight Princess.

 

[Zephron]

I know the specials are tweaked... I like the up b spike, and the arrows.

The boomerang shouldn't be changed. I agree with that.

As for the bombs, thats why I suggested a bombchu. Just some way to keep it a bomb, but... tweak it. You know? We'll discuss other ways to get something to work out.

The roll sounds great. Could you somehow use the get-up attack from the ledge as it's animation? Like... just the stab part.

 

[Oni K4ge]

^^Or, how about the animation when you roll forwards from laying down (when youve been thrown strongly and after hitting the ground)

 

[Zephron]

That sounds good but there's no stab. Could you combine them for when you press A during the roll?

 

[Oni K4ge]

Well, I figured something like play a roll animation, then ONLY if attack was pressed, play the stab animation. simply using "an if button pressed" command should work.

 

[God of Humility]

Yeah, it'll be relatively simple to code. How about we use the roll tech animation? It's the only one that starts standing. I think it'll flow better with the run. For the stab, we can just use the last hit from the jab combo that was cut in favour of the illusion stab.

 

[TLMSheikant]

My friend and I played YL dittos and YL matches a lot last night.
I got some replays which I might put up to prove my points.

I have a few balancing suggestions:

•Hookshot: Give it some more lag. It syncs with his dash attack effortlessly, and his dash attack is also broken.

•Dash Attack: This move has huge horizontal knockback and also comboes into itself. It's incredibly cheap. Keep the horizontal knockback but lessen it a bit and increase the lag slightly.

At what %s did dash attack start to kill? If after 130% with no DI then it is far from broken.

•Up Tilt: I love this move, but it's knockback is almost nonexistant and it has too much damage. I recommend for the damage to be cut drastically.

Right now you can grab the enemy, downthrow and do about 4 up tilts then an upsmash for a 40% unescapable combo.

DI!! DI!! DI!!!!

•Up B Spike: Make this a weak spike. With his dtilt, fire spike, and up B, he has too many strong spike options. We were at the top of the screen on Pokemon Stadium, got Up B spiked, and he immediately did an Up B but couldn't live.

It's waay too strong. Weak Spike please.

LOL, no. If they get hit by such a laggy move the deserve it.

• The down throw comboes into the fire spike. At almost any %. Increase the lag just a tiiiiiny bit maybe?


I love this character. But he does need some balancing.

If you guys want the video I will upload it. It pretty much shows everything I say is broken.

I guess you guys dont know exactly what is broken.

 

[Zephron]

TLM, you can't DI out of the uptilts. You're guarenteed at least 3 and an upsmash.

The dash attack does combo into itself and allows 0 skill to knock someone extremely far offedge from the other side of the stage.

As for the Up B all I'm asking is for it to be slightly weaker. There will still be a spike.


I think I'm being reasonable. I am trying to get the newest version of Brawl+ with the model. Once I do, I will have videos up.

Jack and I are going to make an even better model soon ^_-

 

[The Milk Monster]

Why wouldn't you be able to DI out of the uptilts?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Hmm, if you really cant DI them...which I doubt, then change the angle a bit?

 

[God of Humility]

K, well dthrow is definately DIable. I wasn't able to comsistentely land a fire spike. It leads better into upb anyway.
Uptilt is garanteed at least three hits on fastfallers, like YLink. As I said, I'll cut the damage from 8 to 3. Sounds good.
Dash attack needs to be changed on speeed and knockback. Unless we completely change the animation. What do we do?
Upb spike will be weaker, but not by too much.

And Zephron, is the new model going to be code based again? It would be a lot more practical to have it in texture form. They did it for Mewtwo. Its called vertices hacking.

 

[TLMSheikant]

To 3? Ouch that seems too little. 5% no less. If its 3 guaranteed hits then its 15%. That isnt much considering does more with 2 hits already . Oh, and remember brawl plus is a game about combos and tech chasing. I dont think it matters if YL can combo just as long as its not easy mode.

 

[God of Humility]

I just thought of something for the roll dash. How about giving an option for which attack to use. Like if A is pressed, stab forward. It will be powerful and harg to land. And if B is pressed, do a spin atack. It was possible in Four Sword Adventure, and I think Minish Cap. It would make the dash a lot more useful and unpredictable. Maybe even be able to jump out of it. I'm coming to love this roll dash idea even more!!! This might make Young Link so much more original.

As for balance, I'll play around with it today. Just give me suggestions on the new fsmash and dash attack.

 

[Oni K4ge]

TLM, you can't DI out of the uptilts. You're guarenteed at least 3 and an upsmash.

The dash attack does combo into itself and allows 0 skill to knock someone extremely far offedge from the other side of the stage.

As for the Up B all I'm asking is for it to be slightly weaker. There will still be a spike.


I think I'm being reasonable. I am trying to get the newest version of Brawl+ with the model. Once I do, I will have videos up.

Jack and I are going to make an even better model soon ^_-

I cant give you a link, as Ive been trying to find it myself, but have you SEEN wilttilts YL model?! It is awesome. I saw it at brawl snapshots.

 

[Zephron]

....That's Jack and I's.

He put it on his thread and other websites to showcase it along with his mods.


Why don't you visit the OP for a spell. Your failure will end then =)

 

[Oni K4ge]

...ohhh... well, I thought there were some differences, but I guess it was just the angle? Haha oh well. I suppose he couldve tweaked it, though not likely. Oh, and the spell seems to be making me realize that I needed to put in a new jump animation for Doc but forgot!

 

[jackharvest]

The Resurrection of Young Link

Yeah, I'm finally back.

So, I'm pretty much fed up with all the complaints to have me "get back here, and work on Young Link with us." So, I've come to settle the score a little bit.

I'm going to be redoing Young Link from scratch. Yeah, yeah, pain in the groin, I know. However, this time it will require zero codes on your part.

None.
Nada.
Zilch.

I'm going to be modifying his model in 3ds Max (similar to what I, and many others have done here: http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=4592.0 ), and hopefully will be able to alter enough of him to make sure he looks much more like Young Link. Scaled down versions of Link are cool and all, but we deserve better. No, I wont be importing Young Link's Model from melee or anything, that's against the rules here. I will be editing adult link, and working with the resources that I have. But my goal currently is to have his face shape reflect Young Link better, as well as his eye socket size. Oh, and the strap that goes across his chest needs a makeover, no?

I'll be back.

 

[TLMSheikant]

^ Awsum. Also, @ zephron tweak the angle of YL's utilt to make it more DIable.

 

[Oni K4ge]

Good to hear Jack! Young Fierce Deity is cool and all, but... y'know, you need some man power too :3

 

[God of Humility]

^ Awsum. Also, @ zephron tweak the angle of YL's utilt to make it more DIable.

Btw, Zephron had nothing to do with the moveset. I did with the help of others for projectile editing. Zephron's help consisted of awesome textures, a model, and really good balancing help. If you want to suggest changes in the moveset, direct them to me please. (Sorry for my shameless self creditation).

I played around with the utilt, and could never link more than three with human DI. That means 12%. I might slow it down a bit, but we'll see.

I balanced Young Link following your suggestions. Utilit deals 4% and is a good combo tool. Dash is slower and weaker. Dsmash is weaker and sends lower, more YLink-like. With frame speed adjustement, I made fsmash useful and smooth. It still needs a lot of work though. I'll make a release when we figure out what the dash attack will be.

And @ Jack, are you saying you'll make a new model that would require no code? (AKA a texture). Thanks a lot. Scaled down versions of Young Link are horrible in term of model.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Oh I see. 10chars.

 

[God of Humility]

K. Since the current animation for the fsmash is plainly bad for its purpose, I think we should use another animation. After sine searching for a proper animation, I think the one when Peach does a smash with a beamsword is really good. Its a vertical slash over his head. Think Ike's fsmash but less powerful and faster.

It wouldn't exactly be a jump slash, since I know momentum codes tend to feel clunky. It is instead a slash he would do while stepping forward which is, I think, excellent for our need. Unless there is a strong dissaproval, I intend to put it in. I think its much better than the ugly animation where he doesn't even touch the ground.

And for the ftilt, how about a shield bash?

 

[Tylerelyt]

Right now, if you took off the last few frames of the animation, made him move forward at least as far as the original Fsmash, and made the hitboxes only be on the sword instead of everywhere, it would work pretty well. However, if the other animation ends up working better, do it.

Also, is the roll dash done already? That was fast.

@Zephron: Have you uploaded that recolor yet? Or are you waiting until the new model is out?

@Jack: What all are you planning on doing, exactly? I have a list buried somewhere that I wanted to do, before I figured out I couldn't follow the vertex hacking guide. >.<


Lol, I feel useless now. Woo!

 

[God of Humility]

I actually did that for the old animation, but his feet never touched ground and it looked bad overall. I will use the new animation. I'm sure it'll look better.

The roll dash isn't even started. I wanted to make sure we actually did it before starting. I guess we are making the roll dash. lol

Don't you feel useless, we still have a lot to do. Such as balancing and ideas for new animations.

 

[Zephron]

Right now, if you took off the last few frames of the animation, made him move forward at least as far as the original Fsmash, and made the hitboxes only be on the sword instead of everywhere, it would work pretty well. However, if the other animation ends up working better, do it.

Also, is the roll dash done already? That was fast.

@Zephron: Have you uploaded that recolor yet? Or are you waiting until the new model is out?

@Jack: What all are you planning on doing, exactly? I have a list buried somewhere that I wanted to do, before I figured out I couldn't follow the vertex hacking guide. >.<


Lol, I feel useless now. Woo!

I am helping Jack with the model. We are going to do everything you'd want, trust me.

We're going to try:

• Giving him the True YL chest strap

• Fixing his face

• Fixing his neck and tunic

• And much more!


As for the re-colors I was planning to release them with the model but if you guys want the blue one I can put that one up now. Want me to?

• I really like the idea for the shield bash ftilt. Do it!!


Oh, and Tylerelyt, all hype and posting is extremely helpful; Thus you help.

 

[God of Humility]

OK guys, huge update. Lots of new moves.

Ftilt is now shield bash. Fast, weak, it is a gtfo move.

Fsmash, is now overhead slash. Young Link takes a step and slashes. One of his most powerful attack, and slowest. The animation is much better than before. The move still needs polishing.

Dash attack is my favourite. It is the roll dash. While rolling, YLink hits opponents upwards, leading well to combos. If you hold A during the move, he stabs as he gets up. If you hold B, he does the spin attack. Both are references to how you could interupt a roll with a spn attack or stab in different Zelda games. If you hold the jump button, he jumps as he gets up, following his foe. Good combo move.

Just the dash attack, makes Young Link feel completely different from the Links.

I need your feedback guys. How can we improve him? Are the new moves any good?

While we're waiting for the new model, I'll still upload a code and no code version. (When will the model be ready?)

Size Mod 0,85

http://www.mediafire.com/?1mmqyoowmm5

No Size Mod

http://www.mediafire.com/?tmdgzzgmm2v

Motion

http://www.mediafire.com/?ozydjmyzdhd


And Zephron, I would really like that recolour even without the model if its not too much to ask. Doing Young Link dittos with the same colour is sometimes confusing.

And Jack, any chance you could update the OP when the model is done?