Challenger Approaching!!! ROY!! .PAC UP!!!! 12/7/09 at 3:36 AM EST

[goodoldganon]

Question, when Roy is "finished", will be be in the next official build or in a future nightly build that will be soon implemented into an official?

It's up for debate. Above all else we would need a working clone code that allowed Marth and Roy in the game. If that never happens Roy will never be official.

 

[Plum]

I understand that the current clone code idea is supposed to separate him via costumes but that still has a major flaw.

To be completely competitively viable you would need the ability to have 4 Roys playing at the same time (what if two teams in doubles are double Roy?) while also being able to play 4 Marths for the same situation. If things are done via costume the only solution would be to have two different codesets that allow a 4 Marth/4 Roy doubles match. Though switching codesets for this kind of thing would just be a hassle and if that was the only way then I couldn't see Roy being official :\

You can't just go around limiting the players ability to play characters, so you would really have to consider that a 4 player Roy match would happen in a set followed by the same teams wanting to do a 4 player Marth match the next round.

 

[cAm8ooo]

The clone engine would use one of the unused Character select icons and he would get all his costumes as well. It's not tied to just one of Marth's costumes.

 

[goodoldganon]

I understand that the current clone code idea is supposed to separate him via costumes but that still has a major flaw.

To be completely competitively viable you would need the ability to have 4 Roys playing at the same time (what if two teams in doubles are double Roy?) while also being able to play 4 Marths for the same situation. If things are done via costume the only solution would be to have two different codesets that allow a 4 Marth/4 Roy doubles match. Though switching codesets for this kind of thing would just be a hassle and if that was the only way then I couldn't see Roy being official :\

You can't just go around limiting the players ability to play characters, so you would really have to consider that a 4 player Roy match would happen in a set followed by the same teams wanting to do a 4 player Marth match the next round.

The plan, as I understand, is to hack Roy onto one of the unused panels. 4 Wireframes or w/e they are, popo, giga bowser, and wario man. On that select piece would be 'Roy' but have all of Marth's costumes. It's late, and tough to describe but you should get my point.

 

[ShadyGT]

There was no Pal code from Roy, so i played arround a lil bit with the Brawl+ Pal code and the Roy code. Now i got some kind of marth with pfire and other attacks. Would be if someone could tell me if the attacks and maybe wich are similar to the USA Roy.
It was only a try to play him on my Pal console xD

Here an video i made http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMY5VAGOtbc

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

I understand that the current clone code idea is supposed to separate him via costumes but that still has a major flaw.

To be completely competitively viable you would need the ability to have 4 Roys playing at the same time (what if two teams in doubles are double Roy?) while also being able to play 4 Marths for the same situation. If things are done via costume the only solution would be to have two different codesets that allow a 4 Marth/4 Roy doubles match. Though switching codesets for this kind of thing would just be a hassle and if that was the only way then I couldn't see Roy being official :\

You can't just go around limiting the players ability to play characters, so you would really have to consider that a 4 player Roy match would happen in a set followed by the same teams wanting to do a 4 player Marth match the next round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TifgT7Sfn-w

Problem solved, for 1v1 anyways.

 

[Sethlon]

After GHNeko puts our vids up I'll re-look over them and share what I think could/should be changed.
You guys are officially awesome for making this hack

 

[GHNeko]

Ahhh **** now I have to put them up. Thank you for killing my right to procrastination. >:

 

[V-K]

Does he have no landing lag?

 

[Wolfric]

The plan, as I understand, is to hack Roy onto one of the unused panels. 4 Wireframes or w/e they are, popo, giga bowser, and wario man. On that select piece would be 'Roy' but have all of Marth's costumes. It's late, and tough to describe but you should get my point.

Popo Giga Bowser and Wario man? what do you mean? o_O

 

[superyoshi888]

Popo Giga Bowser and Wario man? what do you mean? o_O

CSS Panels for IC, Bowser, and Wario that give you Popo only, Giga Bowser, and Warioman.

Can't we use the Custom CSS code to make a second Panel for Marth?

It would come either before or after the Random panel. Once we have created the second Marth panel, we could just associate the Roy changes with that panel.

 

[Sethlon]

Kay, here I go.

First off, Roy is awesome. Fiery grab pummeling is just bad ***. His tip effects are really interesting and make for some fancy on the fly combos, especially the fsmash and bair tips. Fair tip sets up nicely for all kinds of fun stuff. Dtilt is back in its full melee glory.

Uair tip, while super fancy, is pretty much useless. There were a couple of times where I'd short hop uair tip GHNeko and he'd get a free dsmash because he recovered from the lag before I did More hitstun on it would probly be a good idea.

Upsmash seems pretty good for its tech chasing/combos, but actually connecting with it is kinda difficult due to its strange hit boxes.

The down smash tip is kinda figidy. I never actually got it to connect with dsmash tip -> second swing sweespot. Most of the time it sent Neko behind me fast enough that the second swipe completely missed (although one time the second swing tipped him, sending him back to other way, which looks sweet lol).

OverB is lots of fun. The third swipe over is nice for a quick combo, but it has no chance to kill since it has set knockback. Third swipe up spikes wonderfully. If you hit a grounded opponent with it, you can combo with the fourth hit (although if you're too close you'll move past them and miss). I didn't mess around with third swipe down very much.

Roy's overall KO power is better than melee. Bair makes for an excellent kill move, and with its range can get surprise sweetspots relatively often. Dtilt -> turn around bair combos at high percent, and can be used for a flame spike or just a hard hit depending on if you're opponent is over the edge or not. Fsmash hits like a truck, and is still useful on tip, so its safer to throw out. Dsmash still sweetspots often, so it makes a good kill move.

Alot of the kills I got on Neko were edgeguards though...his new aerial mobility combined with actual priority at the tip of his swings makes his edgeguarding alot better than melee. His plethora of spikes make it so you can edgeguard in different ways (backwards ledge jump bair spike, ledge hop onto the stage dair spike, a well spaced dtilt tip for a stage spike, etc).

His grab game is nice. In melee one of his bigger downfalls against non-fastfallers was that if your opponent just didn't DI at all you couldn't combo them out of a grab. This new roy can still combo if they don't DI at all though, so unless they guess correctly on the fthrow/dthrow mix up you can follow it up, as it should be, IMO.

And then, there's his downside...roy's recovery is terribad. He falls like a brick, doesn't go very high with his upB, and he can't curl it as far as he could in melee. He falls too fast to be able to use a neutral B boost, and overB doesn't help his recovery at all. In melee, if your opponent had the edge, if you timed it right the multihits of your upB could often push them off of it, but roy's upB is faster in Brawl+, so you can't really use that to your advantage either. Similar to melee, hes a perfect weight/falling speed to eat big combos (mario can chain grab roy at 0% with upthrow and then switch to dthrow at 75%ish), roy as is will likely end up being a char that gets combo'd to hell and then gimped. He does have better means to avoid getting hit than melee though, what with actual tip priority and no crouch cancelling.

 

[GHNeko]

Holy balls to the walls of text batman. :V

 

[Shadic]

It's not a wall of text it there's linebreaks, dude.

That said, I'm gonna update to the newest nightly, I'm not that good with Roy/Marth/Rarth anyways, and Ganondorf's new Bair is too hard to resist. I hope we'll get Roy as his own icon soon.

 

[superyoshi888]

CSS Panels for IC, Bowser, and Wario that give you Popo only, Giga Bowser, and Warioman.

Can't we use the Custom CSS code to make a second Panel for Marth?

It would come either before or after the Random panel. Once we have created the second Marth panel, we could just associate the Roy changes with that panel.

Way to ignore my idea, guys.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Way to ignore my idea, guys.

Probably because the plan to use one of the extra panels has been the plan all along. Almas is already working on it.

 

[timothyung]

Second panel of Marth = First panel of Marth, so your method won't work. Currently.
We need a code to change this.

 

[leafgreen386]

Uair tip, while super fancy, is pretty much useless. There were a couple of times where I'd short hop uair tip GHNeko and he'd get a free dsmash because he recovered from the lag before I did More hitstun on it would probly be a good idea.

*sigh*

Yeah... I hate this move. It's a pain to work with. I lost count of how many times I broke this move while working on it. It's always either too good or too horrible. The problem is that if you give it enough knockback (and therefore stun) to be useful, it gives him broken dtilt -> uair -> repeat combos against most of the cast (easy 0-deaths), and if you don't give him enough kb on the move, the opponent just nairs or jumps right out. I tried to give it just enough kb that you won't be able to actually combo most characters, even though it would be really close. It's the number one move we need feedback on right now on how to fix.

I also tried giving the move just enough kb to tumble, so that instead of fighting to keep them in stun, it becomes a move that starts techchases. Unfortunately, this made the move too good offstage, as it became a very good spiking move. For the most part, we didn't want roy to be using his uair as a spiking move offstage, so this was dropped in favour of trying to get the other version of the uair working.

Upsmash seems pretty good for its tech chasing/combos, but actually connecting with it is kinda difficult due to its strange hit boxes.

Good. The move is ridiculously good when it hits, so it should be difficult to hit with.

The down smash tip is kinda figidy. I never actually got it to connect with dsmash tip -> second swing sweespot. Most of the time it sent Neko behind me fast enough that the second swipe completely missed (although one time the second swing tipped him, sending him back to other way, which looks sweet lol).

Hm... might have to look into this again. I think the tip tumbles, so it may be subject to DI.

His grab game is nice. In melee one of his bigger downfalls against non-fastfallers was that if your opponent just didn't DI at all you couldn't combo them out of a grab. This new roy can still combo if they don't DI at all though, so unless they guess correctly on the fthrow/dthrow mix up you can follow it up, as it should be, IMO.

His grab game... is marth's grab game. We don't have the ability to edit throws even if we wanted to lol

And then, there's his downside...roy's recovery is terribad. He falls like a brick, doesn't go very high with his upB, and he can't curl it as far as he could in melee. He falls too fast to be able to use a neutral B boost, and overB doesn't help his recovery at all. In melee, if your opponent had the edge, if you timed it right the multihits of your upB could often push them off of it, but roy's upB is faster in Brawl+, so you can't really use that to your advantage either. Similar to melee, hes a perfect weight/falling speed to eat big combos (mario can chain grab roy at 0% with upthrow and then switch to dthrow at 75%ish), roy as is will likely end up being a char that gets combo'd to hell and then gimped. He does have better means to avoid getting hit than melee though, what with actual tip priority and no crouch cancelling.

Yep. It's the sole thing keeping roy balanced right now.

 

[GHNeko]

Let the tipped uair stay ********. It's pimp on platforms really. I know. Playing his Roy on platforms was the sole reason I avoid stages like PKMN 2/1 and BF. I only went to Smashville just so we had a stage that could work for both of us. (Platform for his ******** uair, Empty space for my chaingrabs, and lack of FD lip.)

Not everything about Roy's onstage game as to be good/useful. Tipped uair ***** on platforms, not so much without them.

Also, I have around 20+ vids up. You can start watching now.

 

[AnDaLe]

I think nuetral B is way to over powered.

 

[leafgreen386]

I think nuetral B is way to over powered.

OH REALLY. I DON'T SUPPOSE THIS IS WHY THE KNOWN BUGS AND BALANCE ISSUES SECTION EXISTS IN THE SECOND POST OF THIS THREAD.

KNOWN BUGS AND BALANCE ISSUES:


* Over-B (Double Edge Dance) needs reworked completely
* Shield Breaker and Counter need frame adjustments

Reading helps.

 

[GHNeko]

lolololol. You're so mean leafgreen. <3

You make me laugh.

I lost it at the caps.

 

[Shozaku]

is there any way possible to use him in + 4.2? ive seen people ask for the code to use him in vbrawl but i wasnt too sure if this would be the same :\

 

[Numbuh 214]

*sigh* As people have already said before, Shozaku, ROY WILL NOT BE OFFICIAL UNTIL WE CAN DO ROY VS. MARTH.

Well, this looks promising. Too bad I can't play it tho (I procrastinated on renting TP for the Twilight Hack because I wanted to just loan it from someone; look where that got me T~T).

 

[leafgreen386]

*sigh* As people have already said before, Shozaku, ROY WILL NOT BE OFFICIAL UNTIL WE CAN DO ROY VS. MARTH.

Well, this looks promising. Too bad I can't play it tho (I procrastinated on renting TP for the Twilight Hack because I wanted to just loan it from someone; look where that got me T~T).

You don't need the twilight hack anymore with bannerbomb out now, actually.

 

[Kite216]

help i dont know how to add him into the game could someone please explain this to me?

 

[Shozaku]

i understand that hes not official, i also understand that theres no way he could ever be untill every character goes "gold" as many people have put it. whats confusing me now is why him "not being official" has anything to do w/ me using him in 4.2. he was put in 4.1 w/o being official. just being able to know the marth changes in 4.2 and knowing what roys changes were (code wise) is enough for me to go into the code list and change it myself. all the codes being merged seems a little excessive to be but thats not for me to decide nor to complain about.
Sorry if i seem a little irritated but i dont see any reason someone should bust out yelling about things that are irrelevent to the question at hand, if someone can explain to me how it is relevent then i will retract my preveous statement

 

[leafgreen386]

i understand that hes not official, i also understand that theres no way he could ever be untill every character goes "gold" as many people have put it. whats confusing me now is why him "not being official" has anything to do w/ me using him in 4.2. he was put in 4.1 w/o being official. just being able to know the marth changes in 4.2 and knowing what roys changes were (code wise) is enough for me to go into the code list and change it myself. all the codes being merged seems a little excessive to be but thats not for me to decide nor to complain about.
Sorry if i seem a little irritated but i dont see any reason someone should bust out yelling about things that are irrelevent to the question at hand, if someone can explain to me how it is relevent then i will retract my preveous statement

Like was said earlier, we're running out of frame speed lines. Roy would push 4.2 over the limit on frame speed, so you would need to remove some other characters' modifications in order to play roy without glitching the game. If you want to play roy on 4.2, simply replace any of lines in either the frame speed data or hitbox mod data codes that begin with 11 (which is marth's character ID) with the roy modifications, and then change the byte count (the last four digits of the first line on each of those codes). To find the byte count, take the number of lines following the first line (you don't count the first line when doing byte count) and multiply that by 8, and then convert the result into hex. And make sure you don't go over 127 total lines in the frame speed code.

 

[Shozaku]

mmk, thanks a ton leaf. seems i didnt catch that particular part of running out of frame speed lines, sucks to be human. sorry to all i may have offended for snapping when i did, ive been under a good deal of stress on top of my original dislike of forums. way to many bad memories x.x however it wasnt my place to go off.

 

[Lil_Yuri]

Hi guys, new guy here.

I don't really understand how the texture hacks work. I got the Roy costume working, but I don't have Roy. I'm supposed to name the .pac file the same as the .pcs file right?
Can I get a link to Falco's guide?

 

[GHNeko]

To play as roy, you need to use the gct. :V

 

[Lil_Yuri]

To play as roy, you need to use the gct. :V

The .gct download at the bottom of goodoldganon's first post right? I downloaded that and I'm not getting him.

 

[5ive]

The .gct download at the bottom of goodoldganon's first post right? I downloaded that and I'm not getting him.

Download it, put it in the "Codes" folder of your SD and name it RSBE01.

 

[Lil_Yuri]

Download it, put it in the "Codes" folder of your SD and name it RSBE01.

I already did that. Unless I'm suppose to delete the .gct part. Which I don't think I'm supposed to.

 

[5ive]

RSBE01.gct basically.
Everything should work :/ Come over to the IRC for further help.

http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/BrawlPlus

 

[Lil_Yuri]

RSBE01.gct basically.
Everything should work :/ Come over to the IRC for further help.

http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/BrawlPlus

Ok I will go there.

 

[goodoldganon]

I removed all of Lucas's frame adjustments in my 4.2 backroom set and if Shanus releases the set here soon I'll release it. Lucas is a loser and had a lot of adjustments anyway

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

Yeah, I just got Roy this morning and my problem is the opposite of the other guys. I've got Marth that acts like Roy, but no costume? This isn't really important (except for looking cool) but I have no idea what's wrong. I downloaded the GCT at the beginning. Did I miss a step?

 

[5ive]

Textures don't come with codesets. You need to find the texture yourself, then put it in your SD card.

Specifically, put the .pac/.pcs file in private/wii/app/RSBE/pf/fighter/Marth and name the .pac/.pcs FitMarth00 to replace the default costume. You may need to make the pf, fighter, and Marth folders yourself.

 

[bleyva]

Yeah, I just got Roy this morning and my problem is the opposite of the other guys. I've got Marth that acts like Roy, but no costume? This isn't really important (except for looking cool) but I have no idea what's wrong. I downloaded the GCT at the beginning. Did I miss a step?

i havent really gotten into this project, and even i know theres gotta be some roy textures for marth floating around. just find one you like and download dat ****.