Category Character Tier Lists

[The Star King]

Against floaties you could put pika and maybe jiggs above him, but the pwn kirby brings against heavies puts him above both of those IMO. Even against pika with Kirby I can do 70+% combos off an utilt, which is one of the easiest combo starters.

Pika combos heavies just as bad as Kirby does, if not worse. Just watch any tigerbombz video, where he basically does 0-death combos left and right. I'll admit that Pika relies heavily on his USmash at low percents vs heavies to start combos, but that's fine when he can link any aerial to an USmash. Maybe you can easily do 70%+ combos with utilts->weak bair->nair, but it's really hard to do 0-death combos on floaties.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Hurray for my idea being accepted.


should go like something like this:

Peach's Castle
Performance on peach's castle -

doesn't have to be a sub topic.

with stage performance, i guess it's looking at a characters recovery and everything else. you could even get more complex and see what the frame data says in ANT'DS' thread.

BUT

there is also what characters can or cannot do on a certain stage

ex. (PIKACHU IS GOD ON DREAMLAND.)

 

[NixxxoN]

from kuzinator's list i would change this:

-Techskill list
place kirby easily at the bottom (n00bs char)
move mario a bit down (kinda slow/floaty)
move falcon a bit down (lots of easy effective stuff)
move link up (hard to use in general)

-"Mindgames" list
Falcon needs so much mindgames?

-Recovery list
I still think Link is worse than ness (stupidly small range) but maybe thats just me

-Comboing ability list
Luigi is harder to do combos than Mario (although has better finishers)
Ness should be moved a bit up (has plenty of djc combos)

Also, for the approach list, id say fox is #1 and for the techchasing list Ness is #1

 

[th3kuzinator]

well first of all

a falcon w/o dash dancing is severely hindered

dash dancing/spacing grabs is a really important tool for Falcon

his bair approach is decent but can be out space, dair & fair have sub-par priority.

His baiting is also very effective due to his speed which can lead hip up to a grab or usmash.

Although his approach is good enough as it is, mindgames make it that much better

 

[ballin4life]

Pika combos heavies just as bad as Kirby does, if not worse. Just watch any tigerbombz video, where he basically does 0-death combos left and right. I'll admit that Pika relies heavily on his USmash at low percents vs heavies to start combos, but that's fine when he can link any aerial to an USmash. Maybe you can easily do 70%+ combos with utilts->weak bair->nair, but it's really hard to do 0-death combos on floaties.

You definitely can't always link aerials to usmash

 

[rpotts]

Pikas Uair chains can get techy.

When dropping from the flat part of hyrule, to the slant on the left side and NOT jumping, but using Uair and then keep going with the combo...Isai loves this and so do i :D

well first of all

a falcon w/o dash dancing is severely hindered

dash dancing/spacing grabs is a really important tool for Falcon

his bair approach is decent but can be out space, dair & fair have sub-par priority.

His baiting is also very effective due to his speed which can lead hip up to a grab or usmash.

Although his approach is good enough as it is, mindgames make it that much better

Those aren't mindgames. Mindgames can't be written out, they happen in a split second during a game. Every char needs dash dancing, most do well with bair approaches and all of them can bait out a grab/combo starter (like upsmash for falcon)

Mindgames make all chars better, but mindgames aren't part of the character, the player makes their own mindgames apart of whichever char they choose.

Mindgames list is useless.

Surri makes horrible posts.

 

[Peek~]

Technical Skill (From most technical to least technical)

Yoshi
Ness
Fox

Samus
DK
Link

Luigi
Mario

Jiggs
Pikachu
Falcon
Kirby

Not too sure about Samus, can probably be put with the top 3
Link might be put with Luigi and Mario, hes got many useful moves
Bottem 4 are easy mode, though Jiggs will have a hard time if the stock lasts long

 

[th3kuzinator]

from kuzinator's list i would change this:

-Techskill list
place kirby easily at the bottom (n00bs char)
move mario a bit down (kinda slow/floaty)
move falcon a bit down (lots of easy effective stuff)
move link up (hard to use in general)

-"Mindgames" list
Falcon needs so much mindgames?

-Recovery list
I still think Link is worse than ness (stupidly small range) but maybe thats just me

-Comboing ability list
Luigi is harder to do combos than Mario (although has better finishers)
Ness should be moved a bit up (has plenty of djc combos)

Also, for the approach list, id say fox is #1 and for the techchasing list Ness is #1

kirby has some advanced techs: rock cancelling, extended upb slide and besides his general utilt **** has some interesting weak nair bair techs. also finding ways to do uair into upb spikes are really advanced.

On link's recovery --> Myself, and most of the people on swf, agree that ness' recovery is worse than link's. I think ness is pretty much locked in that last spot for that bracket (what u guys think?)

Link does not have ALOT of tech skill. I think you are judging that bracket based on the wrong criteria. His usmash is good for combos but not hard to use. Uair chains are really not difficult and his approach is governing by spacing and projectiles. Link is definitely not that technical (more spacing).

Falcon is more technical than everyone thinks. Besides pivots and the general usmash --> uair x 6 --> upb, his non uair combos require a bit of skill and precision.

Just because mario is floaty and slow does not mean he is not very technical (as we have stated sh dair --> uair is difficult)

What do you guys think about falcons mindgames?

The combo ability bracket is assuming you can utilize every technique the character has to continue combos. Mario has a 10x better approach and startup, but once in the combo luigi can go on 10x longer and finish 10x easier. This bracket is assuming we do not need an approach. Even still luigi has some trouble starting combos at 0% on small characters (on large ones sh dair ff uair or just a running shorthop uair works; on dk anything works cuz hes so big)

Think about ness for a bit.
Hes got uair chains on everone granted

up to like 7-8 on heavies
up to 3-4 on floaties

-->weak nair to spike (again situational)

then he has nothing from that

he can fair chain a few floaties (the correct setup is VERY rare, connection the dair is usually a biatch)

He has djc dair but then after 2-3 its not a combo anymore because they can tech out of it (just because you can tech chase them EZ does not make ness a good comboer)

he also has djc nair chains which are usually better on heavies and are also very situational.

Ness --> good starter/tech chase sub-par finisher (hes like kirby but worse)
all his good combos are also situational.

EDIT:

Technical Skill (From most technical to least technical)

Yoshi
Ness
Fox

Samus
DK
Link

Luigi
Mario

Jiggs
Pikachu
Falcon
Kirby

Not too sure about Samus, can probably be put with the top 3
Bottem 4 are easy mode, though Jiggs will have a hard time if the stock lasts long

How do you figure samus and link being technical at all?

falcon is way too low

I think pika could be put down lower, but I have no idea how mario & luigi could be less technical than samus and link.

What does samus have? dair --> bair?!

Fair chains maybe but they again are situational and not that hard to do.

mario's sh dair uair is much harder

 

[The Star King]

You definitely can't always link aerials to usmash

Overall Pikachu is still much better than Kirby.

 

[WOTG]

I made my own list on notepad like a long time ago lol. Never thought of actually making a thread for it, many people here who flame over the dumbest things.

I would take away the Mindgames list and Technical list. Mindgames is a lot more based on the player, not the character. Every character can be very technical so it's really hard to decide on that, unless you want to change it to "hardest to easiest to use" list, which makes more sense I believe.

I think I agree about 100 with the recovery list. For the combo list I would put it this way...
1. Fox
2. Falcon
3. Kirby
4. Mario
5. Yoshi
6. Pikachu
7. Luigi
8. Jigglypuff
9. Link
10. Ness
11. DK
12. Samus

Surri makes horrible posts.

No need for that =/

 

[th3kuzinator]

No one seems to like the mindgames list, so ill remove it.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I just had the wrong idea for what Technical meant in these terms.

I just find doing that more difficult then most things chars have to do consistently in game

 

[Gammelnorsk]

how could you say any character iss more technical than dk i am really sad

 

[Peek~]

How do you figure samus and link being technical at all?

falcon is way too low

I think pika could be put down lower, but I have no idea how mario & luigi could be less technical than samus and link.

Falcon is insanely easy to use. All you need is Usmash/Grab + Uairs-combined with his speed/dashdancing/pivoting. Usmash has nasty priority, amazing Uair coverage, 2 unblockable grabs, spike, all aerials are useful, etc etc etc

The lowest ill consider putting Pika is switched with Falcon, which im now thinking sounds better.


I edited my post. Im thinking more about Link. Probably putting him above M&L.

What does samus have? dair --> bair?!

Dair and Bair is really all Samus has(besides some Fsmashes and little Fairs). Her Foward approaching isnt very good, her moveset is "odd" to most players. It's hard to stop pressure, Bup can but its not completely safe. She has very little ground game, just dairs/Fsmash. You're also playing with a horrible(but sexy) grab unlike M&L, a bleh dsmash unlike M&L, slooooow usmash unlike M&L, horrible uair unlike M&L, etc etc

You'll need alot to win with the little useful moves he has<- (theres probably a better way to word that :3)

Fair chains maybe but they again are situational and not that hard to do.

I dont see what this has to do with anything. You dont need to do that

mario's sh dair uair is much harder

Same with this, you dont NEED to do it if you can win without

Spoiler

I dont like posting long posts :\

 

[th3kuzinator]

Correct me if I am reading it wrong peek, but from what you just posted, you do not make samus seem very technical.

Yet in your list you ranked samus and link above mario and luigi.

I am just trying to make sense of your reasoning

 

[Peek~]

Correct me if I am reading it wrong peek, but from what you just posted, you do not make samus seem very technical.

Yet in your list you ranked samus and link above mario and luigi.

I am just trying to make sense of your reasoning

Wait, im confused

 

[th3kuzinator]

Technical Skill (From most technical to least technical)

Yoshi
Ness
Fox

Samus
DK
Link

Luigi
Mario

Jiggs
Pikachu
Falcon
Kirby

Not too sure about Samus, can probably be put with the top 3

Dair and Bair is really all Samus has(besides some Fsmashes and little Fairs). Her Foward approaching isnt very good, her moveset is "odd" to most players. It's hard to stop pressure, Bup can but its not completely safe. She has very little ground game, just dairs/Fsmash. You're also playing with a horrible(but sexy) grab unlike M&L, a bleh dsmash unlike M&L, slooooow usmash unlike M&L, horrible uair unlike M&L, etc etc

you put samus a a high level technically in your ranking yet you do not seem to view samus as very technical (we are taking about technical skill, not all around wise).

Are you thinking of tech-chase? if so thats the wrong bracket you are posting for

Am I wrong?

 

[Dsc]

Link is too low in the combo for my liking loll

And ness' recovery is the worst for sure

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

To your list, my changes:

I will give a reasoning also for the places

Technical Skill: I am using this for specifically hand speed. Floaty characters in general take lower tech skill with the exception of Falcon's incredibly easy combos which bumps him down a tier or so.
This is also the reasoning behind Kirby being above Samus as Samus doesn't take tech skill at all to use. If Samus had a lower short hop than Kirby, I would put Samus above Kirby.

Top (BY FAR, the only characters with useful techniques that actually take high tech skill)
1. Yoshi: Medium weight, DJC, DJCC, DJL, Parry
2. Ness: Medium weight, DJC, DJL
3. Fox: Fast faller, Shine jab, Shine other stuff, teleport

High tier
4. Link: Fast faller, see reasoning for mario. Bomb and Boomerang placement. Takes "tech skill" to avoid grabs.
5. DK: Heavy platform cancel u-airs, giant punch cancel, ground pound cancel, grab/grab release combos
6. Mario: Medium weight, recovery

Medium tier:
7. Pikachu: Light, Up b to escape combos, infinite edgehog, Up b in same direction (Would be lower for Keyboard players...jk)
8. Luigi: Floaty, Recovery
9. Jiggs: Floaty, Teleport

Low/Bottom:
10. Falcon: Fast faller (higher), perfectly spaced u-airs
11. Kirby Floatyish (lower): Up b teleporting, mashing up and a without using up smash
12. Samus: Very floaty (lower), F-air cancels (to f-smash for example)

Recovery: Going by distance and how easy/hard it is to gimp. If it was by distance only, Ness would be above Link. It is also why I am putting Samus and DK higher. I am also using recovery as from the side, not from up or down, or characters like Jigglypuff would be in top.

Broken tier/Top tier
1. Pikachu: By far the best recovery, difficult to gimp, many invincibilty frames, massive distance

Long distance/High tier: long distance and/or invincibilty frames
2. Mario: long distance, high priority
3. Luigi: long distance, medium-high priority
4. DK: great horizontal distance, invincibility frames
5. Yoshi: super armor/DJCC, very good vs. certain characters, terrible vs others, putting Yoshi below DK due to susceptibility to drills
6. Samus: long distance, high priority though very vulnerable

Puffballs/Medium tier: long distance though somewhat easy to gimp
7. Kirby: Long distance made longer through f-air, easy to gimp, weakness to spikes due to having a bad u-air. Up b can be gimped moderately easily as well, doesn't help that Jigglypuff is light also
8. Jiggs: Great distance, low priority so easy to gimp, doesn't help that Jigglypuff is very floaty

Fast fall fails/low tier: plagued by either predictability (Falcon) or bad distance (Fox)
9. Fox: Fast faller, ok distance, up b is somewhat difficult to read due to it not showing the exact direction fox will go
10. Falcon: fast faller, easy to read

I didn't even know these guys could recover/Bottom tier:
11. Link: High priority, fast faller >implying bombs can be useful
12. Ness: 20 seconds to recover, down b cancels but it isn't like you are going to grab the ledge anyway.

Combo Ability: Usefulness of moves to setup combos, the more moves that are useful, the higher the tier, bigger combos are better. just because DK can kill at 0 in 2/3 hits vs a few characters doesn't mean he's good in combos. Similarly, even if Link/Ness does have massive combo potential, it doesn't mean they usually hit with one of these moves.

Top tier:
1. Falcon: up smash, up airs, f-airs for low weights, throws, you name an aerial, Falcon can combo or grab out of it
2. Fox: massive amount of setups, very easy to combo with (just takes good tech skill), Down air is mostly useless with good DI, jab combos
3. Yoshi: DJC n-airs and b-airs, Down air is somewhat useless with good DI, many setups, up tilt has set knockback, no grab setups :-(

High tier:
4. Kirby Up tilt alone brings him to number 4, no exceptions
5. Pikachu: up tilt, all aerials, massive wall combos
6. Ness: DJC's, up tilt, pk fire (for Nixxon )

Medium tier:
7. Mario: up airs, d-air is mostly useless if DI is applied
8. Link: projectiles, up tilt, n-air or b-air
9. Jiggs: d-air is mostly useless if DI is applied, up tilt, terrible combos on floaties

Brawl tier:
10. DK: Down b cancels, platform u-airs, giant wall combos
11. Luigi: Down air is useless with good DI, difficult to set up, floaty
12. Samus: The one hit wonder

 

[ballin4life]

I think fox > yoshi on tech skill. If we want to talk about parries and stuff I'll just bring up fox's shine shield break. Overall Yoshi is a solid number 2 but I'd say that shine cancels, teleports, and low lasers put fox over the top.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Thank you for your input Koro, I like some of your changes.

Top (BY FAR, the only characters with useful techniques that actually take high tech skill)
1. Yoshi: Medium weight, DJC, DJCC, DJL, Parry
2. Ness: Medium weight, DJC, DJL
3. Fox: Fast faller, Shine jab, Shine other stuff, teleport

I agree that these three are the most technical and probably can be interchangeable
Personally, I think the difficulty of parry is overrated and definitely does not assure yoshi the top spot.
I went into practice mode for some time and came out being able to nair chain proficiently and I picked up parrying fairly fast from just testing it out online.

I put ness last because i got his djcs down in a single day of practice which wasnt too bad.

I have been practicing fox since day 1 and still have trouble multishining/shine jabbing consistently which is why I put him #1.

High tier
4. Link: Fast faller, see reasoning for mario. Bomb and Boomerang placement. Takes "tech skill" to avoid grabs.
5. DK: Heavy platform cancel u-airs, giant punch cancel, ground pound cancel, grab/grab release combos
6. Mario: Medium weight, recovery

Does bomb and boomerang placement really count as tech skill? Even if it does I still would not put link so high.

DK's uair chains are VERY tough IMO, so I can see that

I dont think mario's sh dair uair is that bad, but some people find it very tough so I am still shaky on his placement. Everyone is also forgetting about mario's third direction UPB which is very difficult to pull of with risk of SD (yes mario has a third direction UPB). His rising tornado is also significantly harder than luigi's

Medium tier:
7. Pikachu: Light, Up b to escape combos, infinite edgehog, Up b in same direction (Would be lower for Keyboard players...jk)
8. Luigi: Floaty, Recovery
9. Jiggs: Floaty, Teleport

Because I dont play pika often, I find his uair chains tough. Might be easy for some IDK

Luigi should be higher. His sh dair ff uair still gives me trouble and he has his third directional UPB (just like mario). He is pretty technical.

Jiggs just has teleport. Maybe a little lower, but around here is also fine.

Low/Bottom:
10. Falcon: Fast faller (higher), perfectly spaced u-airs
11. Kirby Floatyish (lower): Up b teleporting, mashing up and a without using up smash
12. Samus: Very floaty (lower), F-air cancels (to f-smash for example)

Falcon should be higher. Though he has easy combos he has some really hard stuff too like upb cancelling (yes he can cancel his upb). Also, any combo that does not involve uair is usually at least somewhat technical/tricky.

I agree with other 2

4. DK: great horizontal distance, invincibility frames

Although he has invincibility frames on his arms, he is very vulnerable up top. Any decent player can get above a DK 20% and gimp him. Good horizontal distance I agree and if played smart, difficult to gimp. Yoshi and samus' recoveries are still better IMO.

Fun Fact: DK's arms are not invincible when an upb is used while grounded

Puffballs/Medium tier: long distance though somewhat easy to gimp
7. Kirby: Long distance made longer through f-air, easy to gimp, weakness to spikes due to having a bad u-air. Up b can be gimped moderately easily as well, doesn't help that Jigglypuff is light also
8. Jiggs: Great distance, low priority so easy to gimp, doesn't help that Jigglypuff is very floaty

Though very prone to shines and low angle attacks, I still think kirbies is better than most other recoveries because, if hit at a high enough trajectory, kirby can float back at a high vertical height and space a dair to get back on stage. Jiggly has more problems with this because her dair has less priority and her recovery is terrible vertically.




I pretty much agree with your Combo list.

Ness could be a little lower due to being more of a tech chaser than a comboer

and mario could be a little higher because he has legit uair chains and sh dair --> uair.

But these are debatable.

Phew. Long Post :D

EDIT: updated the OP with a lot of info.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

really like the op kuz. really descriptive and good points to why they're ranked at the certain spots.

i was thinking about offensive/defensive skill as a list..but that factors into the other lists

i.e combo ability for offense and recovery skill for defense.

 

[dandan]

i myself actually feel that fox's combo ability is superior to falcon's. just the multiple ways to combo makes him such a varied comboer.
falcon combos are usually very linear, but fox combos can split into so many ways at multiple parts.
and there is also the infamous tent.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

yeah but Falcon's combo starters are simplier and if you get it right it's a instant kill.


i agree with your post, but falcon has a slighty better combo ability.

 

[th3kuzinator]

i myself actually feel that fox's combo ability is superior to falcon's. just the multiple ways to combo makes him such a varied comboer.
falcon combos are usually very linear, but fox combos can split into so many ways at multiple parts.
and there is also the infamous tent.

I like the word linear for falcon as I feel that described the majority of his combos.

Fox 100% has more variety than falcon. However, falcon has better setups and usually able to punish better. His approach certainly help. Once in combo, fox finishes better on floaties while falcon dominates heavies.

They are both pretty close, I would still give it to falcon personally.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

yo kuz, i say you move mario up one a bit more in technical.

reason:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsE1stmEgv8 0:23 - until the combo ends.

despite it being sped up, i realized that fireballs could be to used to chain uairs, and there are plenty of ways to end a uair chain.

that looked really tough to pull off but really, really, nice.

i feel like there is alot of untapped potential with mario's fireball, now trying to figure out what i can combo it with in training mode.

if you were to add it in the op just say fireball use.

edit: maybe add the same thing to luigi too, his fireballs stay horizontial so i could see that being easier to pull off but the result fairly the same (most people would porbably end with a upb lol.)

 

[th3kuzinator]

What do people think about mario having more tech skill than ness?

I am pretty good with mario and ness but by far means am no expert in either.

Peek, Fireblaster have any thoughts?

 

[DMoogle]

yo kuz, i say you move mario up one a bit more in technical.

reason:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsE1stmEgv8 0:23 - until the combo ends.

despite it being sped up, i realized that fireballs could be to used to chain uairs, and there are plenty of ways to end a uair chain.

that looked really tough to pull off but really, really, nice.

i feel like there is alot of untapped potential with mario's fireball, now trying to figure out what i can combo it with in training mode.

if you were to add it in the op just say fireball use.

edit: maybe add the same thing to luigi too, his fireballs stay horizontial so i could see that being easier to pull off but the result fairly the same (most people would porbably end with a upb lol.)

That's the Japanese version. Fireballs have more hitstun in that version. I don't think those combos are possible in the U.S. one.

Even then, following up from a fireball isn't hard.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

hmm...i suppose you're right, but despite it being not that hard, i'm trying a bunch of combos that either can start from it, end with it, or be in the middle of one.

a sh ff fireball to a well placed nair looked nice, but there wasn't enough hitlag to seem like someone could do this in-game.

will post screenshots.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

i use fireballs to n-air for setups with mario.


also, mario being more tech based than ness...wut.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

mm..perhaps i need to work on my timing, could be even my spacing.

now i have to post screenshots lol


edit: was my timing and my spacing. looked nice, might start using this for a finisher depending where my opponent is at and his damage.

question to koro, any other suggestions to fireball use? in training mode tinkering around.

 

[Fireblaster]

What do people think about mario having more tech skill than ness?

I am pretty good with mario and ness but by far means am no expert in either.

Peek, Fireblaster have any thoughts?

I am not sure on this one. Most of Ness's tech skill is about DJCing fast or timing the DJC to get more horizontal distance, otherwise there's nothing very technical about him.

There's not much technical about mario either. Mario has the sh dair uair, rising tornado, directional upB, and spacing weak/strong uairs, and sh any 2 aerials.

If you count technical as in pure speed of buttons being pressed, then Ness is more technical. I'd say mario has more variety in terms of technical abilities you have to learn instead of just learning one 3 button technique and repeating it 100 times per match.

 

[linkoninja]

When I think of technical I think more of button inputs, and timing.
And IMO Ness is more technical than Mario
Mario has his d-air - Up-air which is mad hard
but other than that, he's not as technically sound. (besides the obvious L-Cancels that everyone needs)
Ness however needs like PERFECT DJC, which requires a lot of button inputs.
So yeah
I think Ness is more technical

 

[The Star King]

DK is more technical than Pika, and maybe Mario too.

DK actually has difficult things like running short hop reverse b cancel fastfall backair, heavy use of platform drop uairs, platform drop fastfall bair, ledge-hop reverse b cancel bair, reverse b cancel edgehog. Also, surviving from a run-off fair off-stage takes REALLY good timing.

Double up-b is the only thing challenging about Pika (lol @ double uairs being technical).

 

[Frogles]

i'd put falcon over fox in recovery mainly due to gimps. that nasty up b start up means fox is ****ed if you throw him off too early. falcon has a bit more maneuverability and has a much easier time grabbing the ledge.

i'd also put jiggs over pika and kirby in terms of combo ability though im just basing this off isais 4 frame jiggs. he's doing things with her that people haven't caught onto yet but maybe thats because not many people really use her. the only one i can think of off the top of my head is imnotpro/demonicinfluence.

 

[ballin4life]

i'd put falcon over fox in recovery mainly due to gimps. that nasty up b start up means fox is ****ed if you throw him off too early. falcon has a bit more maneuverability and has a much easier time grabbing the ledge.

i'd also put jiggs over pika and kirby in terms of combo ability though im just basing this off isais 4 frame jiggs. he's doing things with her that people haven't caught onto yet but maybe thats because not many people really use her. the only one i can think of off the top of my head is imnotpro/demonicinfluence.

I don't know, fox recovering high has more options than falcon. Both suck recovering low because you can just dsmash them.

 

[th3kuzinator]

yeah Lower than the stage, fox is probably more vulnerable.

Up high he definitely has the advantage over falcon.

I had never ever heard of the stuff star king mentioned. Punch canceling to turn around and bair? hmm Ill go into practice mode and try it out.

This sounds like it would be very hard edgehopped.

I can see Dk being more than pika. I doubt mario.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah I can do ledgehop reverse b bairs pretty consistently now but it took a bit of practice.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I tired the DK techs for abit. Not as hard as I thought it would be. After about 30 minutes, I could get the punch cancel backairs all the time. I could not do it from a ledgehop though, this is too hard IMO. Even if i got it down perfect, the bair would only come out for a split second, I dont think that is a very practical tech.

I would rather ledgehop a uair

 

[DemonicInfluence]

Jiggs does have some crazy combos in the videos of isai i've seen. I wish I could do that stuff.

I should practice more on training mode