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[ndayday]

Nday- Why haven't you been posting? Have you read through everything yet? And what do you think about my explanation for playing the way I was?

Yeah, I've read through everything. Haven't been posting because I haven't found anything to remark on or any people to vote on etc. I should be doing more. Your explanation is ok, although I think it's silly that you bring it up in a question like that. Makes it look like you're looking for my approval. Perhaps you are.

I like how you go talk about your playstyle and tendency to be reluctant about voting someone without solid evidence, only to vote someone on little to nothing. I'll accept this solely for being during RVS.

Underlined, when you said that someone was being a really good townie, did you mean to say that they were being good at faking town if they were mafia? At least, that's why I interpreted it as.

Of course I did that because it was RVS.
Yes @ second paragraph.

Irrelevant to the game.

I have found more inexperienced people easier to read in the past, and was looking for that. Easy newbie scum are easy kills for town, and that's obviously a good thing. Even if you read a newbie as town, you know who not to touch and hell, defend.

Ok, now we've wandered from the subject at hand.

Inactivity, I believe.

Nah I was apparently being used for reaction from others.

It looks like this guy is in a similar boat as I am. Neither of us were able to do much this weekend, and the topic practically sprang up from nothing. Overall, this guy seems like a prime lynching target* if the game is close to deadline. He voted only once, during RVS, so he's not contradicting his playstyle, yet he doesn't do any scumhunting. I guess he just doesn't have a target to tunnel yet. To me, he hasn't contributed enough to get a clear reading yet, so for the moment I'll refuse to lynch for him.

*prime lynching target =/= good lynching target. It means that the player is most likely to be lynched on a tight deadline when the town wants to lynch.

Ok.

 

[Overswarm]

While that may be the case, you could also be scum and just be using that as an excuse to not post.

Could be. You'll live.

I'll get more active as time goes on. You guys just do your thing D1, and I'll let you know what I find.

in the meantime:

vote Greenstreet

 

[vanderzant]

Ermac, to me that looks like a whole lot of fluff.

"he hasn't contributed enough to get a clear reading yet, so for the moment I'll refuse to lynch for him"

is pretty much the only thing you said. And it's not even taking a clear stance. The rest is just stating the obvious.

 

[Dark_Ermac]

I think he's doing a case for each player.

Correct.

2nd player: DZLE-Falz

I play a lot of Epic Mafia and I have played 3 games now in /DR/.
So you can say i'm not a huge noob, but not exactly a veteran.

Vote: rPSI
Cause I

I won't disagree with this. All of the games of EM in the world couldn't give one the skills needed to play in an intelligent forum-based game.

Bound to happen sometime

Yep. If he has never been mafia before, that means his chances are...

let me get a calculator...

Assuming he's been playing in all 12-man games in DR, with 3 mafia each, that would mean...

It would be an 81/256 chance of being town again, or 32% chance that he is town again.
I realize that this game has only 7 town, so his chances are even more slim.

Usually i'll make short sweet and to the point posts. Based on any evidence I find.

When the time comes though I can be known to make a decent sized post with info on a lot of things.

Noted.

I can be known to jump on someone based on a gut feeling, although i'll let it be known it's a gut feeling and not take too much of it into account.

Also noted.

~~about this point, RVS Ends~~

UNVOTE

Yep.

Overswarm, I get the feeling you are a professional.

How do you usually go about D1 in a semi-open set like this?

Overswarm is a veteran player, and I think his advice should help you out, if you're willing to listen. Of course, there's always the possibility of him being mafia, so don't clear him just yet!

Maybe we can have an interesting enough game if Mafia knows what to do... Bahahaha

Anyway, that's basically how I go over D1, Overswarm, probably not as thoroughly but yeah, you said it.

Not as thoroughly, eh?

I was sincerely curious.

At this point, no, I don't see any as scummy enough for it to be significant. I'll pay close attention as I should, of course.

This is reasonable. Exn hadn't posted yet...

Forum games this makes my 4th.

I've played a lot of Epic Mafia too though.

Repeat post.

Had a tourney, was gone all day. Didn't miss much. I'll see if I can find something to bring up/post about soon.

Okay. Moving on...

Exn isn't sitting right with me atm either. He seems to be posting random things without much substance all, as if we are supposed to automatically get why he said or did it.
Surprising because he was such a strong player in my first mafia game, yet he seems to be barely trying and not caring in this game.

FoS: Exn

What are you doing?

Normally a drastic change in plans means that something is up. As we all hit our heads on his brick wall recently, I think we can all see that now. Still, his behavior was somewhat scummy.

Enough about Exn, I'll get to him later.

Vote: Exn
Absolutely hating his playstyle right now and he isn't contributing anything with his small one sentance or less uselss posts.

FoS: Greenstreet
Because of Guide's PBP.

Restating the obvious & minor parroting.

[who would you be willing to lynch? Why this one as opposed to someone else?]

I'm willing to lynch Exn at this point. He is useless at the moment. I don't have an opinion on a No-lynch at this point.

[I'd like to lynch inactives because they're useless]

Especially what you have said, has been useless.

[Dark is becoming more useless]

[If he comes up with nothing, I'll be suspicious]

I'll agree with this post.

I wouldn't say Exn is completely useless... There's certainly a lot worse.

Of course, he still has bouts of uselessness every now and then, but this sounds like you didn't bother to read his wall. Also, no-lynching isn't necessarily the best option here. There's only 7 town with 3 mafia and an independent. If we have a vig, that makes 3 kills/night, which means that it's entirely possible for the game to end up in lylo with a no-lynch. I say it's better to chance a lynch than to not try it.

Also, at this point after reading your wall, I simply see it as you nervously making excuses for your lousy and lazy playing. You still seem most scummy out of this whole group thus far to me.

Okay, so you did read his wall.
I might say the same when I'm done with analyzing him.

[Don't ask me to explain then accuse me of making up excuses!]
I never told you to do anything. I just said you were being useless and stupid.

Honestly, this is starting to focus a bit too much on Exn. This is Falz I'm analyzing!

Overall, I believe that Falz has stuck to their playstyle. They haven't posted any walls, made some good points here and there, and is voting Exn based on his initial uselessness and gut feeling. Noting that he voted Exn shortly before the bandwagon, so he shows traits of leadership. However, he also posted a FOS on Greenstreet based off of Guide's post he had just made, without contributing much else to that suspicion. Right now, he get's a pass. He's most likely going to live through today.

If anyone sees any holes in here, feel free to ask me to fill them in.

 

[Dark_Ermac]

Ermac, to me that looks like a whole lot of fluff.

"he hasn't contributed enough to get a clear reading yet, so for the moment I'll refuse to lynch for him"

is pretty much the only thing you said. And it's not even taking a clear stance. The rest is just stating the obvious.

What do I have to work with?

Virtually nothing.

I've only scratched the surface. Tomorrow, I'll continue to delve into the mannerisms of the current players.

 

[Xivii]

@Exn: It's nice to see you starting to contribute to the game, but you contradicted yourself. once:

Why did it change from that first quote to that second quote? I didn't even post between those times.

I kind of noticed that as I was posting. Honestly I was trying to find a better word than ridiculous, but the bell was about to ring so I needed to post. Yesterday, I said so because I thought that some of the things people were getting on you for weren't really legit cases against you. I was referring to your post that I remembered which were: #16 & #55.

Today as I was reading through your posts, I found some beliefs that you had that I think are illogical (better word). This was after coming across: #102, #116, & #185

I'll get more active as time goes on. You guys just do your thing D1, and I'll let you know what I find.

We will hold you up to that. You shouldn't be excused just because your experience however. How fair is it for us to give you a free ride while everyone else does the hunting? D1 is good for making connections. If you're not posting, you're excluded from those connections. That's something beneficial to mafia.

 

[vanderzant]

What do I have to work with?

Virtually nothing.

I've only scratched the surface. Tomorrow, I'll continue to delve into the mannerisms of the current players.

So... you're doing PBP analyses on each player, even though they contain "virtually nothing?" I don't see why this is necessary. As town, we don't need to be "clearing" people as "Townies."

I'd much rather see you focus on who you think is scum, as well as reasoning for such. You don't have to analyse every single post of every player. Just who you want to put pressure on.

 

[Dark_Ermac]

I'll decide that after I wring out anything I can from the virtual-nothingness.

 

[Xivii]

I've only scratched the surface. Tomorrow, I'll continue to delve into the mannerisms of the current players.

At this rate, the day will be over by the time you're finished.

 

[Overswarm]

At this rate, the day will be over by the time you're finished.

He's given more information than you, Exn.

Why do you continue the pressure when Ermac is actually posting? You're pushing a vendetta, not for a reason. Just drop it and observe or attempt to get someone else to post.

 

[Xivii]

Yeah, I've read through everything. Haven't been posting because I haven't found anything to remark on or any people to vote on etc. I should be doing more. Your explanation is ok, although I think it's silly that you bring it up in a question like that. Makes it look like you're looking for my approval. Perhaps you are.

Why do you think I would seek your approval rather than someone elses? You're obviously not the strongest player in the game.

"I should be doing more"
Then why aren't you? You don't have to wait for other people. You're more than capable of asking questions, getting discussions going, etc.

 

[Greenstreet]

Even still, D1 isn't about finding scum. There is always going to be virtually nothing to work with on Day 1. This is pretty clear from dark_ermacs posts on dzle and Nday. He/she has gone through almost every post to analyze these players, and what's been concluded?

The safe pro-town option isn't analyzing scumtells, which are indistinguishable from stupidity at this stage, but to lynch useless players.

 

[Dark_Ermac]

Even still, D1 isn't about finding scum. There is always going to be virtually nothing to work with on Day 1. This is pretty clear from dark_ermacs posts on dzle and Nday. He/she has gone through almost every post to analyze these players, and what's been concluded?

The safe pro-town option isn't analyzing scumtells, which are indistinguishable from stupidity at this stage, but to lynch useless players.

So you think we should vote out Exn?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Greenstreet, who are you comfortable with lynching at this point? Why?

 

[Xivii]

He's given more information than you, Exn.

Why do you continue the pressure when Ermac is actually posting? You're pushing a vendetta, not for a reason. Just drop it and observe or attempt to get someone else to post.

Don't think so. Before, when I was simply observing, no one else was posting anything useful. The fact that you're pushing for me to drop it is interesting. I don't think he has given more information than me. So far he has just made very vague comments on every posts by two members. Where is that going to get us? Is there anything that he said that you find particularly useful? And what do you mean get some one else to post, have you read anything I've been saying to you? and Nday?

 

[Overswarm]

The safe pro-town option isn't analyzing scumtells, which are indistinguishable from stupidity at this stage, but to lynch useless players.

*hugs*

Greenstreet gets a cookie from me.

unvote vote lythium

 

[Overswarm]

Don't think so. Before, when I was simply observing, no one else was posting anything useful. The fact that you're pushing for me to drop it is interesting. I don't think he has given more information than me. So far he has just made very vague comments on every posts by two members. Where is that going to get us? Is there anything that he said that you find particularly useful? And what do you mean get some one else to post, have you read anything I've been saying to you? and Nday?

I said information. Not content.

 

[Xivii]

Even still, D1 isn't about finding scum. There is always going to be virtually nothing to work with on Day 1. This is pretty clear from dark_ermacs posts on dzle and Nday. He/she has gone through almost every post to analyze these players, and what's been concluded?

The safe pro-town option isn't analyzing scumtells, which are indistinguishable from stupidity at this stage, but to lynch useless players.

I refuse that there is virtually nothing we can use on D1. To simply not try is a completely illogical option. People act like scum have never been lynched on the first day. They have. Just because it's not likely, doesn't mean it's impossible. People just need to try, and do all they can. Even if you don't get much scummy intel, you can still look for things that will help in the future- connections that will help in the long run.

So you think we should vote out Exn?

The hell?

 

[Xivii]

@OS. Oh I see.

 

[Overswarm]

I refuse that there is virtually nothing we can use on D1. To simply not try is a completely illogical option. People act like scum have never been lynched on the first day. They have. Just because it's not likely, doesn't mean it's impossible. People just need to try, and do all they can. Even if you don't get much scummy intel, you can still look for things that will help in the future- connections that will help in the long run.

You're being foolish.

(sample size of 321, varying skill level)

You're gonna get a vanilla townie 72.27% of the time. That's nearly 3/4ths of the time.

Adding in the Doctor and the Cop (that's WORSE than lynching vanilla townie) and you've got a whopping 79.4% chance to kill a townie day one.

No matter how smart you think you are, you're not. There are no "scum tells" on D1 that provide you with an obvious answer unless the player is an idiot, is doing it on purpose, or just makes a slip of the tongue.

Greenstreet is correct in the assumption that lynching useless players D1 is paramount. You have just as much a chance of them being scum as anyone else (who HASN'T been mafia and had a scummate, or themselves, coast to victory by just not posting?).

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I refuse that there is virtually nothing we can use on D1. To simply not try is a completely illogical option. People act like scum have never been lynched on the first day. They have. Just because it's not likely, doesn't mean it's impossible. People just need to try, and do all they can. Even if you don't get much scummy intel, you can still look for things that will help in the future- connections that will help in the long run.

The connections now only really apply later in the game. Like yeah, we have to pay attention to what goes on, but it's difficult to make connections until after a few days.

To be perfectly honest, there isn't much going on right now. Just posting thoughts and ****. No real information about anyone, no allegiances or anything have emerged at this point. Like the most important thing in my opinion is making sure no one coasts through. Lythium, post.

 

[Greenstreet]

Greenstreet, who are you comfortable with lynching at this point? Why?

Probably Nday. There has only been 7 posts, by my count, from him/her so far. And of those posts there is very little involvement in the game (but keeping in mind Nday claimed to be away the whole weekend).

Also dark_ermac. I appreciate the fact that he is trying to contribute to discussion, but I'll probably suicide if I have read another one of his commentaries.

On a completely separate note, while reading dark's analysis on Dzle-falz, I ran a search on Dzles posts so far and I need someone to check something for me. The post is on 05-21-2010, 12:57 PM Post number #72 if it helps. When I read in the forum, the post says UNVOTE in big font. But when I look at the post in search mode it says "UNVOTE( becausei'mreadytounvote)". I can never see that extra text when browsing normally in the forum. Not sure if it's just me that can't see where the extra text is..

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Use of Hidden Text has been noted. DZLE has been warned.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

@Separate note: If you quote his post you can see it. He did sneaky invisible text.

 

[Xivii]

No matter how smart you think you are, you're not. There are no "scum tells" on D1 that provide you with an obvious answer unless the player is an idiot, is doing it on purpose, or just makes a slip of the tongue.

To say with absolute certainty that "there are no 'scum tells' on D1" to me is a foolish way to go about things.

"In order to prove the law that crows are black, it is enough to find one white crow".

It's true that it's unlikely to get mafia the first day, but like I said, it's not impossible.

You're only looking at the numbers. There's more to it than that. Think about it, the majority of players in this game are relatively new to mafia. The chances of slips go up. Thus the chances of finding mafia go up. As well as getting information that can be used later on in the game.

 

[ndayday]

Why do you think I would seek your approval rather than someone elses? You're obviously not the strongest player in the game.

"I should be doing more"
Then why aren't you? You don't have to wait for other people. You're more than capable of asking questions, getting discussions going, etc.

What. You asked what I thought of it.

@2ndp; Part procrastination which will stop now and part D1 johns. There isn't much of anything to go from, you know that.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

To say with absolute certainty that "there are no 'scum tells' on D1" to me is a foolish way to go about things.

"In order to prove the law that crows are black, it is enough to find one white crow".

It's true that it's unlikely to get mafia the first day, but like I said, it's not impossible.

You're only looking at the numbers. There's more to it than that. Think about it, the majority of players in this game are relatively new to mafia. The chances of slips go up. Thus the chances of finding mafia go up. As well as getting information that can be used later on in the game.

Maybe you should read that entire thought.

'There are no "scum tells" on D1 that provide you with an obvious answer unless the player is an idiot, is doing it on purpose, or just makes a slip of the tongue.'

He never said there are no scum tells.

 

[Greenstreet]

You're only looking at the numbers. There's more to it than that. Think about it, the majority of players in this game are relatively new to mafia. The chances of slips go up. Thus the chances of finding mafia go up. As well as getting information that can be used later on in the game.

The chances of townie slips also go up.

 

[Overswarm]

To say with absolute certainty that "there are no 'scum tells' on D1" to me is a foolish way to go about things.

"In order to prove the law that crows are black, it is enough to find one white crow".

It's true that it's unlikely to get mafia the first day, but like I said, it's not impossible.

You're only looking at the numbers. There's more to it than that. Think about it, the majority of players in this game are relatively new to mafia. The chances of slips go up. Thus the chances of finding mafia go up. As well as getting information that can be used later on in the game.

No, there isn't more to it than that. You are guessing when you lynch someone on D1. You have no concrete information other than "I myself am (allegiance)". That's it, 100% of the time, unless you're given special information.

What you CAN do is confirm connections based on flips afterwards. You cannot do this beforehand.

If someone makes an obvious tell, we can lynch them. Otherwise... kill who is useless and look for connections later.

Personally, I have my vote on the most useless player. They may or may not be scum.

My second choice for a lynch would probably be you.

 

[Xivii]

Hm I see what you are saying.

If everyone is simply going after the most "useless" players, then what? I don't get how you're supposed to get connections if everyone is doing the same thing. Or doing nothing. Which is exactly what everyone was doing by the time I started my sporadic voting. And exactly the way you have been playing most of the game.

 

[Overswarm]

Hm I see what you are saying.

If everyone is simply going after the most "useless" players, then what? I don't get how you're supposed to get connections if everyone is doing the same thing. Or doing nothing. Which is exactly what everyone was doing by the time I started my sporadic voting. And exactly the way you have been playing most of the game.

Just pay attention and you'll find what you're looking for.

 

[Xivii]

Un vote

 

[vanderzant]

Hm I see what you are saying.

If everyone is simply going after the most "useless" players, then what? I don't get how you're supposed to get connections if everyone is doing the same thing. Or doing nothing. Which is exactly what everyone was doing by the time I started my sporadic voting. And exactly the way you have been playing most of the game.

People do things for a reason. Even on day 1, Even in RVS. Everyone has some sort of motivation for their actions, Town or Scum. IMO Mafia is a game of observing what people do and trying to understand their underlying motives. Why did X vote Y for lurking, when A, B, C did the exact same thing? When a bandwagon formed on D, who were the players who jumped on it as an easy target? Who wasn't on the wagon?

There is plenty of stuff that can be found on Day 1, most of it just doesn't make sense until later on. THAT'S why we push inactive players to take stances and vote, and why we lynch those unwilling to play.

 

[vanderzant]

@Exn: I was wondering how people avoid the 10 character limit all the time XD. Now I know.

 

[Greenstreet]

Greenstreet, who are you comfortable with lynching at this point? Why?

I'm adding Lythium to this list. Lythium has been as useless as anyone at this point. But I can be proven wrong.

 

[DZLE]

I have a lot to read, I'll start now.

 

[DZLE]

Alright. I didn't miss a ton from what I last read, surprisingly.
Sorry about the hidden text LOL.

Basically, Exn is my prime FoS. I'd be content with lynching him if things went that way. But, as OS and a few others pointed out, it's better to have a person whos posting kinda scummy than a person who is not posting AT ALL.

I'll UNVOTE for now and Vote: Lythium.

Lythy, post, please.

 

[Lythium]

Sorry, guys. Work johns.

Nday: Right now, I'm curious who would you lynch and why?

Exn: In reponse to this post (http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10351001&postcount=211), I don't really see how I'm parroting. If you hadn't noticed, Vrael and I both made our posts at the exact same time (6:34AST). I fail to see your point. On another note, in regards to the same post, it really looks like you're trying really hard to take the heat off of yourself. Why is it necessary for us to know who you think is town?

Ermac: Those are some lovely PBPs, but I don't see how they're really helping out town a whole lot. So, who do you think is the most scummy at the moment?

Overswarm: I realize that you're an extraordinarily experienced player, but...

I have my suspicions, and am posting nothing. You can deal with it.

How is this beneficial to town? Also, you voted for Greenstreet, and didn't justify your vote. What's up with that?

vanderzant:

I'm fine with Exn or Ermac if neither of them start do anything. I mentioned earlier that I'd like a wagon on Ermac, and the same holds true for Exn (not sure if there is one already). IMO town needs to be less concerned with putting people at L-3 and more concerned with actual pressure and scumhunting.

I would just like to point out that this is terribly contradictory. You say that you're okay with bandwagoning Ermac or Exn, but then you say that town needs to be less concerned "with putting people at L-3," which, let's face it, is pretty much bandwagoning on D1, am I right? So, how much bandwagoning is too much? Or is a bandwagon not a legit form of pressure?

I'm sorry if none of this makes sense, and I abuse commas like it's my job. I have a headache radiating to my knees.

 

[Overswarm]

How is this beneficial to town?

It isn't, except for that it is beneficial to me and I'm town. So in a sideways way it is, but I don't care about it benefiting other town members at the moment. I'll post suspicions when I'm ready, thank you.

Also, you voted for Greenstreet, and didn't justify your vote. What's up with that?

Wanted to see if he would comment. He didn't.

 

[Lythium]

I see.