Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Omenga]

Hey pp, I was wondering what are some good options with dealing with Falcos who try to stick to you at all times. I recently played a few online and I tried to create spacing with dash dancing, but it seemed they were commited to sticking as close to me as possible. My fair wasn't sending him anywhere as just the handle hit him and he wouldn't be hit anywhere far, and my nair wasn't coming out fast enough to beat his aerials. They also tended to jump over dtilt so I ended up giving up that option during the match.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You don't need Dtilt vs Falco in neutral. Fsmash, Fair, Nair, Side B even can help you. You can also CC grab his Nair. Your Nair also comes out faster than your Fair so perhaps you just need to change the timing on your Nair to match Fair? You can also jab to reset, which works best if the jab tippers or is more spaced.

 

[Sylarius]

PP, what has your opinion been on Marth vs Fox these last few years? I think last I heard your opinion (long ago) you had said you thought it was even (this was after or around Apex 2015?). There was a lot of time where Leffen claimed it was 60:40 and also claimed to have the most knowledge in the world about the matchup (I was mad on your behalf, even though it was during your hiatus... my headcanon is PP is the studying emperor)

Now that Mango claims Fox vs Marth is winning for Fox, I just wonder if your opinion has changed due to Zain's proficiency in the matchup/Leffen's complaints and now hearing Mango's opinion, or if it has been an opinion which has stayed the same these last years. not just about this matchup, but like in general, how much do you think your ideas are influenced by other ideas/opinions?

Also Kevin Nanney for Smash Summit 12

 

[Dr Peepee]

I definitely don't agree with Mango that Fox beats Marth on FD at this time. If that were true, then in my view Fox wouldn't just beat Marth he'd strongly win maybe counter Marth by extension.

My opinion has been relatively what it has been and not changed too much. Cody's opinion is an interesting middle ground I think it's fine to leave us with here which is it's fine besides FD which is very hard for Fox.

 

[Kotastic]

I've been finding great use of falling upair/fair lately for juggling floaties.

But I'm not sure about that tool vs puff, given her multiple jumps and drift mobility. Should the go-to for juggle puff be dash rising fair and reads on her jumps?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Depends on how high she is and platform availability and such.

You can also fake going for falling Uair/Fair but then DJ and hit her so that will deepen your mixup pool.

I think mixing in the reads/reactions on her jumps is good because it forces her to go into you more.

You can also change it by percent. Late aerial hits could maybe combo into more, but the high hits won't combo so you could do them more for positioning at mid or high percent.

 

[Kotastic]

I feel like I get owned a lot by Falco's FH falling dair or bair more than I should. When I'm not preemptively jumping, I find it very hard to hard punish that option even when I'm close.

Should I be punishing the startup of the FH by guessing their timing of whenever they rise? Should I primarily pivot grab (which can be manipulated) or go for rising fairs if I'm not preemptively jumping?

When Falco is rushing me down with laser --> approaching laser, I often find that I can't get the tipper take laser jab/side-b, and they jump over the PS'd laser. Do you suggest to go for that take laser anyways, or maybe preemptively jump --> falling fair?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah I feel like rising Fair should still work vs those options as Falco comes down.

I am positive you can get the jab/Side B out in time(you can have the jab beat aerials, I tested it), but you can always CC laser to reduce your stun to have more frames. The preemptive jump into falling Fair is more of a failsafe than a reliable tactic I imagine, as if you're wrong you just get locked down on the ground closer to Falco now anyway.

 

[SteelRhydon]

My opponent's Fox has been going for more Usmashes vs me in neutral, and it's been opening me up at least half the time. It often happens when I try to SH aerial in place, but also when I attempt to dashback and Fox is too close.

Do you think I should do more dtilts to keep that in check or keep more distance from him in case he gives me an indication that he will go for it eventually?

 

[Kotastic]

How would you ledgetrap Falcon that mixes aerial from ledge, NIL/AI, WL down, WL back DJ plat?

 

[Dr Peepee]

My opponent's Fox has been going for more Usmashes vs me in neutral, and it's been opening me up at least half the time. It often happens when I try to SH aerial in place, but also when I attempt to dashback and Fox is too close.

Do you think I should do more dtilts to keep that in check or keep more distance from him in case he gives me an indication that he will go for it eventually?

Dtilt is great for stopping this, as is immediate rising retreating Fair. You could also rush in with grab. If you want to go for a big read you could Fsmash if you think he will jump, come in, or at least stay in that spacing.

How would you ledgetrap Falcon that mixes aerial from ledge, NIL/AI, WL down, WL back DJ plat?

It kinda depends on what they prefer, but the easiest general answer is probably to space outside of aerial from edge and move in if you see anything else.

 

[JackCD123]

Hello PP, wanted to come on here to ask you less of a Marth or even melee specific question but more of a mindset question. Sorry if it’s a bit ramble-y and long. First off I got into the game the weekend of Apex 2015 and your run was the first tournament I saw so even messaging in a thread with you is like a childhood dream come true. I digress, over the past few years a few big mental roadblocks have been piling up those being lack of confidence, fear of commitment and laziness.

First confidence, my pals really helped me notice this one recently the main thing they told me was before every game of League I would say “well time to lose this lane” or “guys I’m gonna int” and once they brought this up I looked back and realize I don’t believe in myself in nearly everything I do. I self deprecate, belittle and never truly believe in myself in anything be that my uni classes, smash or general social stuff.

Next is lack of commitment. This has been an issue for me since I picked up a GCN controller in 2015, I don’t stick to a character for very long. I always chalked it up to me getting bored or losing interest but I now believe it’s my lack of confidence coupled with not wanting to be perceived as “bad”. I think this because if I don’t have a main then I can use excuses like “oh I’m new to ___” or “well I’m doing bad time to pick up __”. Then comes the fact I don’t want to be perceived as bad, this stems from I believe the lack of confidence and caring to much of what others think of me.

Finally my laziness. I’ve always been a lazy person when it comes to almost everything. I like the simple things and don’t do to well when the going gets tough. How this effects me in school or melee is I see a tough problem and instead of doing the hard thing and finding a solution I decide to ignore it and do something else that’s more enjoyable in the short term (like unranked sessions for example). All these 3 roadblock have come together to stagnate my play and views on the game

Sorry for the long winded comment. Glad I was even able to get my thoughts on the proverbial paper.

Thanks,
Jackson

 

[SteelRhydon]

How do I recover back against a Fox that's near the ledge, and can thus use the invincibility to shine spike, or bair if I try to DJ over the ledge? I'm assuming my position would be above the ledge, and near it (close enough to DJ and land back). This would happen if get bair'd near ledge at around 60%~ for example.

In this scenerio, if I DJ immediately, I get bair'd. If I fast fall and recover low, I can get shine spiked or he'll regrab ledge and dodge my upb. If I attempt to go DJ near the ledge, I also get shine spiked. It's a really bad position for Marth, but do you know the safest options to do in this situation?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hello PP, wanted to come on here to ask you less of a Marth or even melee specific question but more of a mindset question. Sorry if it’s a bit ramble-y and long. First off I got into the game the weekend of Apex 2015 and your run was the first tournament I saw so even messaging in a thread with you is like a childhood dream come true. I digress, over the past few years a few big mental roadblocks have been piling up those being lack of confidence, fear of commitment and laziness.

First confidence, my pals really helped me notice this one recently the main thing they told me was before every game of League I would say “well time to lose this lane” or “guys I’m gonna int” and once they brought this up I looked back and realize I don’t believe in myself in nearly everything I do. I self deprecate, belittle and never truly believe in myself in anything be that my uni classes, smash or general social stuff.

Next is lack of commitment. This has been an issue for me since I picked up a GCN controller in 2015, I don’t stick to a character for very long. I always chalked it up to me getting bored or losing interest but I now believe it’s my lack of confidence coupled with not wanting to be perceived as “bad”. I think this because if I don’t have a main then I can use excuses like “oh I’m new to ___” or “well I’m doing bad time to pick up __”. Then comes the fact I don’t want to be perceived as bad, this stems from I believe the lack of confidence and caring to much of what others think of me.

Finally my laziness. I’ve always been a lazy person when it comes to almost everything. I like the simple things and don’t do to well when the going gets tough. How this effects me in school or melee is I see a tough problem and instead of doing the hard thing and finding a solution I decide to ignore it and do something else that’s more enjoyable in the short term (like unranked sessions for example). All these 3 roadblock have come together to stagnate my play and views on the game

Sorry for the long winded comment. Glad I was even able to get my thoughts on the proverbial paper.

Thanks,
Jackson

I think solving this doesn't have to be "hard." Every time you catch yourself doing that, try to tell yourself something else instead. "I'll do bad" can turn into "I'm going to try and implement a new strategy this game" OR "I'll see what I do wrong and then use that to learn" OR "I'll notice when I don't want to do something and write it down and look for connections." None of that is really so different from doing what you're doing.

The hard part is facing yourself. That is hard for most people. It's still hard for me, but I am doing it as I allow myself to do it more and more. And that's part of the key: you aren't solving anything all at once or a failure...you're a work in progress. A person. So it really helps to show yourself some kindness and just start. You're still young even if you're my age of 30(which I doubt) so you have SO MUCH time. If you get started and just take one step at a time, you can go a long distance.

Keep moving!

How do I recover back against a Fox that's near the ledge, and can thus use the invincibility to shine spike, or bair if I try to DJ over the ledge? I'm assuming my position would be above the ledge, and near it (close enough to DJ and land back). This would happen if get bair'd near ledge at around 60%~ for example.

In this scenerio, if I DJ immediately, I get bair'd. If I fast fall and recover low, I can get shine spiked or he'll regrab ledge and dodge my upb. If I attempt to go DJ near the ledge, I also get shine spiked. It's a really bad position for Marth, but do you know the safest options to do in this situation?

Go toward edge and side b if he comes in is one option, dj airdodge in some way is another, and you can also upb through him if he tries to go for edge even if it means you land onstage for a third somewhat reliable option.

 

[Kotastic]

Given what we recently talked about using dash back to be safe vs falco, how does that translate vs fox? I find that dash back may not be great when they overshoot or when they're close. What's the "safe" option ratio to use dtilt in place vs dash back against Fox?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well that will depend on a lot of things. In a given position for example, your Dtilt may come out too slowly. Or if Fox likes to jump a lot then Dtilt would be less useful.

So if they're too close, you'd need solutions either in general or out of dash back. Similarly, you need solutions generally or out of dash back vs overshoots.

 

[SteelRhydon]

How do you edgeguard Pikachu's UpB? I read this thread (https://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-edgeguard-pikachu.440636/) but I'm interested to hear your own perspective,

 

[Dr Peepee]

Okay that thread saves me some time.

Stand on the edge, and Fsmash when you see Pikachu start to move or Dtilt and occasionally wait. If Pika gets Dtilt'd they may try the edge again so you could get ready to Dtilt again or just hit em. If you Fsmash or successfully keep hitting Dtilt to edge, Pikachu will start going high. This gives you opportunities to start tipper Fsmash'ing(may need to back up) or you can dash back dash in Fair and potentially Ken Combo. I don't see Pikas hold out on this yet but if they did you could start up-B'ing instead.

Anyway the main first thing is to be close and Dtilt since that's easier, and Fsmash occasionally since it covers going into you as well. You'll note in some TAI clips he Dtilts a little early so he can also Dtilt the second up-B teleport in case he's wrong on the first which is a strategy to use if you're a bit unsure of your reactions.

Oh, and if Pikachu uses side B to get close to the stage, you can go out and up-B/Bair/Fair if Pika's even kind of close since side B has so much lag, so that will help too.

 

[falsegripmudkip]

Hi! I have a question about tech chasing! I am kind of new to melee (less than a year) so learning full RTC seems unnecessarily hard right now. But I still want to get more out of knockdowns than just guessing a 1/4 so I am trying out this setup that feels quite easy to execute:

Position close to their landing
Guess 50/50 on roll or no roll
Roll: react to direction with dash attack
No roll: fsmash to cover tech in place and missed

But dash attack can be ASDI down teched at lowish percents which I think leaves me at only 1 frame advantage. Should I see this as a problem? Or is it fine to use this setup until people start teching it? Is it decent even then?

Massive thanks in advance

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think the main other issue is if they tech behind you. You could maybe Fsmash that too?

Anyway yeah if people hold down vs dash attack then you would need to either grab or Fsmash or maybe like Dtilt or aerial depending on what you feel comfortable with.

 

[falsegripmudkip]

Is it OK to ask for clarification? Ignore otherwise

If I am standing where they land, how would I land an fsmash or dtilt on, say, falcos rolls? And is it possible to react to spacies/falcon rolls with aerials?

Only worried about covering rolls reactively right now since I am fine guessing / reading {missed and tech in place} with fsmash.

 

[Dr Peepee]

This assumes you may not always be where they land, but in some cases, such as by the corner, you could walk Fsmash or Dtilt.

It is possible to react with aerials if you jump around when they tech, although it could be possible to react otherwise it would just be harder.

If you just want rolls, then chasing with grab really shouldn't be too hard, but you can stick to your current method if you like. Works okay.

 

[SteelRhydon]

What does Pikachu have that can counter Marth Dtilt in neutral? I assume Dtilt is a very strong option vs Pikachu since it outranges Pikachu's moves and has him hold down to CC his moves at various %.

Also, would you recommend DD'ing in this MU, and how would you do it?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Pikachu can Nair/Dair over it, or attack after it comes out, or Tjolt over it. I think Pikachu MAY be able to find Dtilt/Usmash after the hitbox is out and before Marth can shield etc, but it's probably hard to reliably do.

DD is okay to do but not to spam. I would now recommend DD'ing less and doing a lot of Dtilt so you can ASDI down grab or otherwise Dtilt Pikachu. DD is then good as a mixup so Pikachu can't hit around obvious Dtilt timings as easily. Out of DD, it can be good to dash away shield so when Pika goes for crossup Nair you can grab that landing. If Pika begins respecting this, you can work your Dtilt/Fair/kinda Nair more easily.

 

[Omenga]

Hey pp, I took your advice about what to use againdt Falco in neutral and it’s working out really well so thank you for that!

A follow up question, what can I do about someone that doesn’t let me get a hit in or even get to move? I try to DI out of combos, but sometimes it feels like theres nothing I can do while they carry me across the stage. Do i need to just play faster?

also, and you don’t have to answer this one, but is there any way to help with the stress during the game? I always feel pressured when it’s down to 1 stock and i’m always tired and worn out after a few matches.

Thank you for reading!

 

[Dr Peepee]

Glad I could help! =)

Tech practice will help a lot with that, but also learning where you can react and can't, and how to set up good stuff so they have to slow down too. Spacing a Fair or Dtilt will give you time, as will WD back for example.

That last one is a big topic. Deep breathing, reducing tension while playing, being excited to play, and keeping your physical condition solid will all help with this though.

 

[Another Player]

Goddammit, Dr. PP. There's also the issue of who you're up against. The win should go to the more experienced/promising player. If not that then maybe the luckier player?

 

[Kotastic]

would you say doing a partial approach drift in fair work well vs Marth and Sheik? Or would there be a different variation that's better?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah I think it's good vs Sheik. The nice thing about it is it's still hard to grab, and you can space around Ftilt/shield well with it.

 

[SteelRhydon]

What are the uses of immediate rising fair and late landing fair vs Jigglypuff?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Immediate is best for catching Puff as she jumps, or whenever she's at a height closer to the ground but may take off with another jump or put out an aerial to stop you. Immediate is not often going to combo, but sometimes it could at lower percents. Immediate may be better to use when Puff gets close to retreat. I guess immediate is also good vs platform Puff if you call out a shield drop timing.

Late Fair is great for starting combos or even setting up Fsmash if you weak hit. Late Fair also gives more pressure on shield or on hit. It can also hit Puff out of the air or on platform sometimes.

 

[SteelRhydon]

If Fox goes in with an aggressive Nair/Dair and you won't have enough time to punish it with a grab before he can shine, what can you do to beat it?

Would his Shine theoretically function as a option select of shine or CCing? Since he's holding down while inputting waveshine, so it could beat Fair/Dtilt depending on the %, but the airdodge button to wavedash could also mess up his CC punish and have him shield. Hope that made sense lol.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yep that is how that can work. Most Foxes don't necessarily try to wavedash if they think you can't hit them though.

Nair and Dair are also possible, as is Fsmash depending on spacing. Spaced Dtilt will be fine provided it doesn't clank of course. Retreating rising Fair or retreating Nair may help if you're worried about aggression and he's closer. But yeah if you know he will shine it gives you plenty of time to do at least something like Fsmash usually to punish.

 

[AirFair]

When marth uses sh to threaten fair as part of his zoning, how should be best use aerial drift? I see how it's useful for adjusting your spacing as you jump, but drifting forward in particular seems really risky to me, but I think I need to use it more. I usually prefer to drift back if I can in order to space myself to properly punish them coming in, but I run into issues with this when I'm cornered and/or they decide to take space as I jump, Should I be looking to see if the opponent is staying close as I jump and drifting forward from there, or am I reading that they will try and take space and covering that?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think slight drift forward is still pretty darn safe and mixes up well with the moving back and even moving in place. Given people like to sit outside of the range of your Fair, even a delayed drift in with no FF may be enough to surprise people and score a hit. So the difference here is instead of drifting forward and analog jumping forward, you jump in place, mayyyybe slightly forward, and either drift in late or drift in slightly early then stop drifting in.

 

[ssbmDevil]

What would be the process of unlearning bad habits? Melee is so fast that you don't really realize you've made a mistake until you've made it and i have trouble unlearning my bad habits because they...

1. only come into play when I play really good people
2. there's so many other things going on that I can only catch myself doing something wrong after it happened

I've been struggling with this with so long that it feels like I'm plateauing because of it.

For example, when I see fox shielding in a scramble, I always go for grab, but good foxes usually just fh out in time and I get whiff punished and die. Idk how to focus on a single thing like that when there's a million other things going on. I'd really appreciate your input on this!

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sure. So a big part of it is thinking of what you'd like to do instead. It helps to honestly practice seeing a Fox shielding near you and going for a SH to cover whatever he might do, etc etc. In other words, practice building a new habit not fighting against the old.

The other thing is when you play someone really strong stuff like that will come out. So it's unavoidable with enough pressure. The thing is to think of what happened between stocks or games and what you'd like to do instead as well.

 

[_Abubakr_]

Hello PPMD.
I have a question.
For a long time, I have found it hard to trust my feelings and instincts (people have told me that I play stiff and that I should trust my feelings when playing) and it is really holding me back.
The thing is I don't really know how to do it properly.
So I want to know how to play the game while being confident in my feelings and not being scared to make any mistakes.
I would appreciate your help.

 

[Dr Peepee]

This is one of those things that often requires some time and soul searching.

But given you also said you're looking for confidence, there are some quick things I can recommend:

1. Strike power poses more often, especially before playing. This is easy to look up because some articles went out on it a while ago, but having confident body language really does make you feel more confident.

2. Similarly, making sure your breathing is even and deeper will also keep you focused. Panicking is accompanied by shallow breathing and of course you can feel panicky if you start breathing that way. So confident/calm breathing would play by these rules too.

3. Be excited to play for the win and focus on that. Focusing on losing or fearing losing/failure will make you stiff. Envision yourself winning, and even winning close situations.

Good luck!

 

[_Abubakr_]

Ah thanks, will try to apply this. I will be sure to keep asking questions like these whenever issues pop up