Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Kopaka]

Do you mind if I double post?

I downthrow Falco at 0%. He tech rolls behind me. If I react and and try run forward grab, is the grab guaranteed? Thinking he could jab me before I reach him. I could probably test this out myself.

Secondly, am I right in understanding that aerials against Falco, specifically nair/fair, aren't good for approaching because being in the air kinda sucks vs Falco as he can easily stuff Marth out of short hop, but that aerials are good to stuff out approaches from Falco at the right distance? That I should keep my movement to a minimum, positioning myself so that I can stuff Falco out with grounded moves?

Finally, If I see Falco laser dash dancing just outside my wavedash forward range, and he's cornered, would you advise I stick to stuffing Falco out or trying to run in grab before another laser comes out of his dash dance? I'm observing that some falcos laser then wait before approaching, then laser and approach immediately. Just trying to figure out the right mental model for that situation.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sometimes ya can't help a double post rofl.

If he DIs down and away and his full stage, MAYBE you can boost grab and get him but otherwise you can't. I don't think you can get him tbh.

Kinda, but it's mostly about spacing and what the Falco wants to do. If you're closer then it's better, but if you're farther you're basically banking on the Falco to mess up or laser kinda low as you jump, which may be realistic or may not be.

Run in grab I'm generally not a fan of, but if the Falco is just gonna wait sure if you think you can kill him off it. I'd personally prefer (dash) jumping in or walk Fsmash/Ftilt because it's still really high reward/maybe equal reward but less risky to me. It'll depend some on the spacing and conditioning.

 

[Kopaka]

Appreciate it.

For the last few months I've fallen out of the Less is More mentality. Been training it again these last 5 days. I've realized it takes a lot of discipline to commit to slowing down, focusing on efficiency, ("slowing down time" as it's called in Art of Learning ) quality decision making. I haven't won any major tourney sets yet since getting back to this, but I'm surprised at how well I'm doing on unranked and vs the rest of the PR in my area. I'm seeing things I normally wouldn't see when I don't panic. I think I fell off this mentality for a few reasons: complacency (thinking I've learned enough and can go back to FASTMODE), but also the current state of the game. Now more than ever it's like everybody wants SPEED, especially with b0xes and whatnot. Also because of anger? I'd get angry for losing then GO FAST, win some, then realize I'm not learning anything new and I'd become stale. It's pretty fun to lower my APM and see me winning against people with way higher APM.

Sheik question (I know we've hopped to 3 different matchups now lol): I know to look to stuff her out when she jumps. I can keep her from moving forward with dtilt,grab, FF Fair in place, but if I dtilt or fair her, and she turns around and SH bairs, what can marth do? As she was jumping I dashed back, turned around and late faired, but she got under me and dash attacked. I suppose I can just still hold my ground and stuff it out from closer to her, instead of moving away? Thinking moving away is generally good if I expect a dash attack or Ftilt instead, not an aerial.

3 Falco questions:

1. Start of match, Falco sh lasers off side platform on Pokemon, out the gate aggression. I spawn on the opposite platform. I tried running off and fairing, but that missed. We both land center and now he's on top of me. How do you approach this situation - falco coming off poke plat with laser - as marth?

2. If Falco lasers right inside my range and I take the laser, is this just a crappy situation for marth? if I roll behind I'm at risk of bair/grab etc, if I roll away I give up stage but maybe I can reset the situation but maybe falco can just laser again or walk forward ftilt/jab/grab. I guess the answer is just prevent falco from getting in in the first place lol

3. Falco shielding immediately after laser, within or sorta juust outside my grab range. If I ps the laser, shield beats laser coming back. If I dash back I let falco laser again/take space. Is my best bet to take laser and grab, given that I'm close enough (or take laser and run in grab, again assuming I can cover that space before anything else comes out?)

One last thing. You mentioned earlier I can't get Falco in that downthrow to edge situation. Am I correct in understanding that just because I can't get my opponent directly it doesn't mean that it's a "losing" situation per se? Starting to see I can still play positions to my advantage or at least not to my disadvantage even if I can't punish my opponent flat out with a hit or grab.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah honestly, and this is very true for Marth, you can play slower and still do fine. In fact this can even be quite useful since fast players really hate going slow.
You can Dtilt Bair landing lag, and maybe grab it but I don't remember. You can also Fair slightly early and hit her leg coming out iirc. But yeah just pressuring her post Bair is good if nothing else. Since you SH'd as she came down, you could waveland back to avoid DA if you want. Or land crouch Dtilt to hold down vs DA. Moving away is of course fine as well.

You can SH off the side platform at Falco rofl, or just stay on the side platform and let him laser then come down after it's out to Fair as he comes in or hit him if he staggers it, if you want some simpler plays.

2. Yeah but playing Zain showed me if your dash backs are clean you can dash away from closer than you think and still be okay rofl

3. You can Nair over laser, SH take laser Fair for some simple plays. You can PS then SH(possibly drift) aerial.

Yeah Marth is still insane at pressuring people and taking advantage, but Marth players don't often use it because "need guaranteed into 3 uairs." If you become good at playing pseudo combos or advantage spots, this also helps a lot whenever you drop anything so it's valuable to improve because everyone drops stuff even if because of a good DI read by the opponent.

 

[Kopaka]

On playing slower/faster...so last week I won a local, where I mentally repeated the phrase, "I will focus and win this tournament," and then I won the tournament rofl. Looking back at the vods I was playing quite fast, but I saw little excessive movement like I had back in 2016 (stuff like rapid dash dances and wavedashes). Against Fox and Sheik I was mostly just doing fast long/semi-long dash dances outside of TR, with some crossups and good whiff punish grabs/fairs. I'm really happy with how I played. But it wasn't playing slow at all, though perhaps you could still call it "less is more," because I see a lot of intent behind my movement. I think what happened is I channeled my anger/nervousness into focus, which, along with spending time between sets warming up my movement by myself, allowed me to play in this manner. I've always equated slow/deliberate play with loooong slooow dashes, but those aren't always effective. I did terribly the tournament before this, and there I was trying only to do looong sloooow movement. (Personally I think my personality is more fit for an "angry" focus" than a "calm" focus.) I take it you've experienced something similar? That "less is more" doesn't always = slow?

2. Ok, so if I I can cleanly dash back when Falco lasers up close, is that more or less the ideal option? Or, like the only option I have there? I can't do anything else, if he's really close to me?

3. Got it. What about Falco double jumping after what looks to me like an approach, as a way for him to bait out my grab or something else? Is this a situation where I should wait out the come down and grab landing (or try to beat falling laser or some other falling move)? If there's no top platform for him to retreat to, is this a much more winnable situation for Marth than I know? And what if there is a top platform he can go to after lasering from center stage?

Fox: At around 20% I upthrow fox on battlefield center stage. He ends up on the right platform, I'm facing away from him. He can tech in place, roll away, slide off, no tech, do some buffer shield drop thing. I went for an instant turnaround up air. It missed. So because him and I have so many different options at this moment, what should I be thinking about? Would it be a bit better instead to just down throw as to eliminate the amount of getaways fox has, simplifying things for me? I made a platform tech chase situation work in my favor at around 60%, but for some reason I drop platform stuff at lower percents lol

Thanks again PP, I'm really happy to see all the progress you've made these last 6 years. Hope you feel good about it, too.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Less is more 100% doesn't mean slow, it just means intentional. Once you reach certain DD speeds for example you're not gonna have every movement be intentional(maybe that gets proven wrong later) but you can keep a higher intentional speed. Sometimes with more intent you may sacrifice individual movement intent for staggered movement intent, so more focused every other action as an example. These are ways to play faster but intentional.

2. Depends on how close. If he's shine range you're in trouble obviously. Just out of shine range still in trouble.

3. Yeah with no top platform you can set this up to be really good for you or a reset at worst. Depends on how you both play it a little but Falco's mixup here isn't very good. If you Fsmash or rising Fair and whiff as he DJs he can play a much better mixup or just hit you sometimes though. I don't understand the last question.

Fox: Fthrow is better than Dthrow here, unless you can be certain of DI in on Dthrow I guess. Lower percents are harder because you have to be much tighter, and in some cases it's impossible. If Fox was 20% post Uthrow then it would've been impossible to cover everything from center if he hits platform. It's fine to consider this, it's also fine to Uthrow or mix Uthrow Fthrow. But it's all very hard because of the variables. If you want something simpler I'd say just Fthrow and if you get a grab on missed tech stand/gua/tech in place then it's usually an easier platform tech chase from that new spot unless they can slide off(unlikely at lower percent).

Thanks man! It's been real cool and I can't wait to go all the way =)

 

[Kopaka]

Got it, that all makes sense.

I play a Falco who often does laser -> immediate turnaround wavedash back, often putting himself in the corner. He'll do the first laser just outside my TR, then moves way back to avoid dash in grab. Is this more or less a situation where I should hold my ground in front of him since he can't move back any farther, and has basically nowhere to go but forward and up (and also I guess off stage into dj laser or bair but I suspect they usually won't do that)? He'll do a 2nd laser from the position (see below), could I run under a high laser and grab? I notice I'll play people who put themselves in situations which should be advantageous for Marth but I end up not taking as much as advantage as I suspect I could be taking. As a side note he also sometimes dash dances around this position. (Edit: I realize this is sorta similar to the situation I described at the start of this page lol, guess I didn't realize how much this was happening. Realizing how strong Marth pressure is from walk forward vs Falco)

Here's a pic of the exact position I'm talking about.

2. I upthrow Falco at 80%~ on Yoshi's. Let's say he's going to tech top platform, in place or away, either one. Is waveland to top platform -> grab -> upthrow the best I have here? I went for instant dj nair and that obv didn't do much lol

3. Based on what we've been talking about so far and my own sets vs Falco, I'm starting to think Marth needs to use dash forward quite conservatively vs Falco. He can dash forward vs Falco, but just much much more sparingly than against most other matchups probably, opting to abuse range from slight movement forward (walk or dash -> jump half way in the dash). Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Take laser dash in for a fake/encouraging him to act is good. Occasionally, you can react to his second laser startup and run up side B. Alternatively, you can run up Nair mostly in place to hit his laser startup or take laser Fair if he goes back more than you expect. You can also walk as you said. This opens up Ftilt/Fsmash and also makes the other options better.

2. Uthrow mixed with Fthrow/Dthrow is alright, but you can also DJ Uair him and mix that with Fair occasionally if you want.

3. I don't personally agree, but Zain makes it work so it's a perspective thing perhaps. I like take laser dash in so I can pressure Falco who often doesn't approach after laser, and even if he does approach I can usually still pivot grab from a lot of relevant spacings. Or the dash in just gets me to a better range to play when he does he second laser.

 

[Kopaka]

Ok now I'm seeing how dynamic Marth can be in neutral vs falco rofl. I find this MU's neutral to be sorta complex at times because laser movement, so generally speaking, should I more or less be thinking about what falco does after after laser? And from Falco's perspective, he's thinking about what Marth does in response to laser? I can't just/only do take laser or all the good answers Marth has vs Falco.

2nd, in matchups where zoning is a plus (like Luigi) what generally should I be thinking about so that my zoning doesn't become too predictable? I can't just only do dtilt and fair/nair in place all day because that becomes so obvious and predictable. I tend to become braindead and forget how my zoning is influencing my opponent, I feel like I've lost that sense lately rofl

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah it's a super neat matchup but you have to change how you think about options.

Thinking about what Falco does after laser is good, but there's plenty to consider like spots he likes lasering from.

Falco likes to see how Marth plays around laser yeah, but also seeing if Marth pre-empts any laser or goes to platform can be things he checks for.

 

[Sylarius]

Were you styling a bit when you finished this set with a soft uair ken combo, or was your main reason for doing it for the DI mixup?

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I've been wondering for awhile lol cause it looks very much to me like style points was at least a bit of the motivation, I always love edgeguarding with ken combo but it's not so reliable of course.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Nah the weak Uair is to keep Fox low, then Fsmash vs Ken Combo is a DI mixup.

 

[Kopaka]

Thoughts on sharking Fox up close with a run in grab, as a way to punish landing lag/dash forward/stand still/whiff punish/CC? What counter play does Fox have against a Marth that isn't afraid to come in and grab? Could he drift back drill, or attack early as Marth comes in? And do you think dash dance heavy marth has fallen out of meta in favor of zoning heavy, similarly to how people kinda forgot about zoning when you were active? Personally I'm finding it really tough to zone against good foxes, so I've been opting to stay grounded and focus on grabs. I also feel like this is something you mentally have to condition yourself to do, as getting grabs requires you to confront your opponent and not play fearfully...

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think run up grab is fine vs Fox but I'm not sure I'd suggest it as a staple tool. Fox can dash back, attack(utilt/DA/jab/nair/bair/drift back drill like you said, etc), spotdodge, FH, WD back among other things to beat it. Grab is great reward and beats holding down and shield, but it gives up Marth's range advantage. I think it has its place of course, and can especially be good to intercept Fox coming in to catch your own dash back as one example.

I think movement is better vs Fox than zoning, but zoning has its place too which is why you see Zain use both.

It may be worth asking yourself how you would play against Fox if you weren't afraid, what options you would pick, and going for that more.

 

[Kopaka]

Using both makes sense. Though at low percents against fox, do you think grab is generally a better option than most aerials, even in consideration of how he can beat it out? Aerials can lead to a knockdown but grab seems to lead to a punish more directly.

To your last point, for one I know I wouldn't sit idly by dash dancing in the corner. When I'm not afraid, I either approach, hold my ground, confront my opponent instead of letting them come to me. It's like not being afraid to play the game on their terms. I take it that some of high level play is being unafraid of getting hit, or unafraid of being close enough to apply pressure, even though most hits should lead either to death or pressure/control. Anytime I play better players I get intimidated into acting like a deer in headlights. I'm sure one of the antidotes to this is understanding situations.

 

[Dr Peepee]

If you could always land the grab, sure, but Nair is still pretty safe and gets good damage and position for example so I think it would be more usable overall. If you value the guaranteed reward and negation of grab more than safety then it's worth trying to build your game around it and see how it goes.

Yes, learning positions and move interactions is a major key for matchups. It helps to have that foundation, and then to build upon it with personal confidence strategies.

 

[Kopaka]

Thanks. I've been focusing a lot on punish game lately and im always amazed at how rewarding it is lol. Though I feel like I need to ask these neutral game questions first so I can get a basic understanding of how to get hit confirms in neutral, but this has definitely been helping. Eventually I want to ask you more specific punish game stuff but I feel like a lot of it is just your own testing and watching and then asking for help if a solution totally escapes you

 

[Kopaka]

ok a solution totally escapes me now

I downthrow fox at 0%, after 1 pummel, middle stage on battlefield. he doesn't get the tech but he buffers roll, and ends up positioned where I was standing when I had thrown him, and then shines. What I did was dash forward into him as he was falling from the throw, then I dash towards him as he rolls to center stage. He shines me. I have no clue what to do here to avoid getting hit by the roll shine and also to cover whatever else he can do instead of rolling. Does he get the buffer roll if I pummel? Should I opt for a different throw?

2. I throw fox off stage, low percent. He shine stalls. Can marth punish the shine stall directly by dropping down and doing something, like he punishes fire fox? Or does he have to wait until Fox gets back on ledge or stage?

 

[Dr Peepee]

1. I guess you can dash slightly late so you can dash back into his roll, but honestly in my head it should be totally fine to dash back grab it regardless. Not sure why you're missing it.

2. Pretty much no Marth goes for a direct shine stall punish, but if you knew he was going to hold shine for a bit then runoff Fair or grab edge let go Fair are some strong choices. The reason Marths wait is because Fox can easily DJ shine or Dair and reversal Marth if he sees Marth runoff. You can hit Fox as he DJs which is the most common solution. You can also manipulate him during this time.

 

[Kopaka]

Thanks again. also hope you don't mind the barrage of questions, realizing I really need to put more understanding/decision making/recognition in my game (specifically in punish) instead of getting away with guesswork that's only "good" against worse players.

1. I sh double fair fox and drift away to avoid getting hit by cc dtilt. Fox dtilt comes out as I'm dashing away, I then enter dash dance right at fox sh nair range. Fox immediately nairs at me right after dtilt ends. I'm guessing I can, instead of dash dance, call out his nair with my nair or fair, or just wavedash back and whiff punish? Basically what should I be thinking about if I've just avoided getting hit by cc against my aerials?

2. Still trying to discern when to aerial and when to grab vs fox. Because Marth has no great way to approach directly, from here on out should I More or less be thinking of approaching fox as incrementally taking space moving forward, knowing I don't have to go literally right up to him in order to punish him? (Further, is this indictive of pretty much all matchups for Marth?) That I can play best at a far-but-not-too-far range? Related: I played a fox that would drill in place as a way to bait me coming in, guessing correctly that I'd try to immediately punish the drill landing with a run-in grab. At one point I ran up and shielded right after he drilled, he upsmashed, which I blocked, I tried to get behind him to pivot grab but he spot dodged shined me.

3. I also feel like I give people or certain characters too much credit, if that makes sense? Like, idk, a projectile character, or against Puff, for example. That Marth can literally just slice his way through projectiles, or Ftilt/Fsmash puff's bair is such a simplistic solution that I often forget and instead freak out with movement or shield or jump away instead of swording forward and pressuring. It's almost like other characters have to do so many intricate things while Marth can just gracefully swat people away, if the player mixes up their timings and approaches and plays less fearfully and more...whatever the opposite of fearfully is (courageously?)

4. Do you think it's a good idea to actually give your opponent a reasonable amount of space for them to react to something like Marth's current position/possible action? So that I can give them space to do what they pretty much need to do, which is to commit to moving or an attack that has some startup or ending lag which Marth can punish if he's properly spaced? I think how I've been training thus far is throwing out attacks or movement a little too preemptively (like jabbing at Falco when there is no Falco to jab lol), and could probably do better if I trained to react to what I know they're likely to do given the circumstances of the situation.

 

[Dr Peepee]

1. See if they use an attack and if you can punish that, and from there move on to pressing frame advantage if you have it or getting ready for a decently probable attack. Just use information from past exchanges.

2. What most people mean when they say incrementally approach is they keep getting closer in small amounts. In Melee, once you get to a certain spacing you cannot react to approaches and so incremental plays work differently. Before that, if you want to move slightly that's fine.

3. Use a WD or walk more often to stop DD'ing.

4. Sure try that out and see how it goes.

 

[Kopaka]

Thanks. Puff question. A good puff I play will bair towards me and immediately land in shield or crouch (so, does one jump bair and lands). I'm having trouble with the timing here. To beat her bair with my fair, should I be sh rising fairing her after her bair's active frames finish? I take it Marth can also beat it out before the bair comes out, hitting her at the start of her jump if he's close enough? Pretty sure it's my own mistiming getting in the way here and that Marth should easily be able to negate Puff in neutral or at least make it super hard for her to land stray hits.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Arc has videos about how Marth can pivot grab all Puff Bairs that aren't full drift out, so that's a starting point.

If you want to Fair her Bair, I believe the only way to do it is to hit her just as her Bair comes out, so you need to preempt it. This isn't reliable. You can however Fair her landing if she gets near you, but she can shield or CC that, and in some cases could Bair into DA you.

 

[Sylarius]

Nah the weak Uair is to keep Fox low, then Fsmash vs Ken Combo is a DI mixup.

I'm still gonna choose to believe your marth is stylish

 

[Sylarius]

which tournament win or performance was the most meaningful to you?

i'm sure you've been asked before and i'm wondering if you said it was either apex 2015 or kings of cali, but maybe i'm misremembering. i know i asked you about koc before and you said you thought it was a very different you lol personality wise. i feel like i recall stuff you've said about how kings of cali was proof for the student to surpass the teacher for you in a way, and i know there was that last stock legends video about revival of melee 3. and maybe one other tournament where you were knocked into losers somewhat early, but took some time to yourself to think about things and channel your emotions, had a losers run into grands and either won or got second? or maybe that was one of the tournaments i mentioned above already lol

i'm kind of a big kevin fan/supporter to be honest

edit: oh i think i might've been talking about pound V regarding that losers run, if i'm not mistaken

 

[Dr Peepee]

I had it between Apex 2015 and Pound 5, but I've been going Pound 5 more lately just because it made me a top player and truly validated all of the hard work I put into the game.

 

[Sylarius]

my favourite PPMD tournament win is genesis 9

 

[Kopaka]

I dash forward after I get hit by a Falco laser (he's about 2 character lengths away, right near the ledge on FD). As I dash forward, he dashes away then approaches with a low (possibly lowest) laser. As the laser comes out, I stand. He dtilts me.

So far, I think I could: dash back out of dash forward (avoid ftilt), sh over low laser (risk mixup of high laser), shield (block ftilt but risk getting laser grabbed), not dash forward at all and play the position from my original position, cut dash forward with ftilt or fsmash on laser startup. That's all I can think of so far.

Given all that I currently understand about this situation and my and Falco's mixups here, what do you think is a good question for me to ask myself to further my understanding of this situation and similar situations? I don't think "what's the best thing to do here" is the right question because conditioning and prior interactions exist/nothing works in a vacuum/my opponent could easily mixup their actions and movement the next time we're in roughly the same spots. Or should I be thinking like, "use a good option once or twice or until it no longer works?" Sometimes when I write to you I start to get a sense for what an answer could be, but I often don't know for sure that I'm thinking about it the right way and need a little extra guidance or reassurance that I'm on the right path.

Sort of related but goofy question: is the answer to most things as Marth something like "where do I want to be to zone and poke with sword and thus provoke them to move in then bait them with dash back grab/sword" lol

 

[Dr Peepee]

Good questions here are:

-where do I want to position myself?

-what can I use to beat his laser? can I intercept it? if not, where is safe to be hit by laser?

-at what point can I react?

-what other mixups are there on both ends?

 

[falsegripmudkip]

Two part question:
1. Starting with a complete beginner, how would you prioritize teaching them counterplay to falco lasers? Which plans/startegies/techniques are the most essential basics to counter lasers? Assuming they want to be able to beat falcos who are quite fast with the pew pew.

2. How do I make it feel fun to play against laser happy falcos? Even when I sometimes clutch out a close win it just feels like we did the same thing over and over again all game. Do you have any tips for the mentality aspect of having fun in a matchup? Or a viable way to play the matchup without dealing with lasers so much?

Also, it is amazing that this thread exists and is active, truly a gem of the internet

 

[Kopaka]

Two part question:
1. Starting with a complete beginner, how would you prioritize teaching them counterplay to falco lasers? Which plans/startegies/techniques are the most essential basics to counter lasers? Assuming they want to be able to beat falcos who are quite fast with the pew pew.

2. How do I make it feel fun to play against laser happy falcos? Even when I sometimes clutch out a close win it just feels like we did the same thing over and over again all game. Do you have any tips for the mentality aspect of having fun in a matchup? Or a viable way to play the matchup without dealing with lasers so much?

Also, it is amazing that this thread exists and is active, truly a gem of the internet

I know this was directed at PP, but If I may, since we've been discussing Falco for the last page, I'd say teach them to:

get used to take laser/take a little damage, consider mixups out of take laser like dash forward, dash back, wavedash forward, and out of that action observe how they like to move after laser. Do they laser again? Do they move back? Full hop? Go to platform?Do they attack immediately? This is what I've been working on, too, so it applies not only to beginners! Getting hit by the laser itself isn't the worst thing, it's what comes after the laser that counts more.

There's also some questions I've asked on this page that are relevant to this.

I'll leave question 2 to PP

 

[Dr Peepee]

You gotta get hit by the laser to stop freaking out about it. Just let a cpu or friend shoot a lot and get used to moving off of laser or jabbing or dodging with jump or crouch etc. This will also allow you to practice PS or coming off of platforms into them.

Nair over laser, take laser jab or dash back grab, run up side B the laser, take laser fair out of the air, and crouch PS are some of the easiest things to do first I'd guess.

 

[Kopaka]

Let's say it's 3 months before you compete in a big tournament. What are you doing to prepare? How much time is split between solo practice, analysis, mental prep/meditation? And does it change as the tourney gets closer? For someone at mid level, which area would you recommend more time be spent? (I'm guessing it's analysis)

Also, am I more or less on the right track by understanding the benefit of mixing up your starting positions in neutral being that if you simply spam what "works" in matchups, even if it's good, you'll become predictable? These next 3 months I want to focus on releasing myself from purely "correct" play which just puts me in predictable positions to go for bread and butter stuff. I think this has to do with why sometimes I see high level players do things I don't understand or do things counter to the rules of the matchup.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Meditation doesn't change to me personally. I think that, 3 months out, the primary work can still be adding new things and some refining. Analysis as needed. Mental prep also needs to be seriously improved so that it isn't a consideration by the time you're 2-4 weeks out. For mid level this all doesn't change very much, but maybe focus more on the in game stuff unless you find yourself crumbling a lot or something.

If people know where you want to go, or if you do the same thing every time, then you lose. However, if you move there in an informed way you can still make it work. For example, even if I know exactly when Zain will slight drift forward Nair but I'm Falco I might not be able to punish it and instead would use that time to set up more. Zain may recognize this and still set up his Nair but change his timing, or do a different mixup entirely, or just wait. But tldr yeah that's why you see high level players do weird stuff, though that can also be due to mental strain caused by being pressured/punished hard in positions. Sorta depends on which type of thing you'd be confused about.

 

[Kopaka]

Need halp with Falcon slight dash forward -> sh nairing out of the corner on Yoshi's/small stages/his mixups in this situation in general. I tried nairing him but that didn't work. Wavedash back seems OK if he goes for side B instead (though that's way riskier for him because the lag), but I think it won't put me far away enough to avoid the nair, unless I start the wavedash on the opposite side of the stage. If I'm at CC percent should I just go ahead and do that and accept that I might not be able to move back? Early rising fair?

Also how should Marth handle a sheik that lands from sh fair with instant shield and then spot dodges immediately? Or more broadly, How is Marth supposed to handle opponents who have a good grasp over defense? Like when it seems like they know when to move back and block and stay right outside his range and what to do to counter his counter attacks...it just feels like good sheiks primary way of moving in is to actually block the entire time, and when Marth moves forward, they just move back either on ground or in the air.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It sounds like he's doing full send Nair, is that right?

Dtilt the Sheik's landing and don't always go for grab?

 

[Kopaka]

It sounds like he's doing full send Nair, is that right?

Dtilt the Sheik's landing and don't always go for grab?

from the looks of it yeah full send nair. starts left side of yoshi's, lands a few pixels right of center stage

 

[Dr Peepee]

Nair can work it just depends on timing/spacing, but Fair/Side B will be more reliable. Utilt/Fsmash and often hold down grab work. You can also crossup grab.

 

[Kopaka]

I'm having a tough time keeping Fox in the corner/holding center, especially if platforms are involved. He can do so much out of any one position, switching his positioning and advantages from any other position...for example, I'm watching a Fox I lost to use platform dash dance, run off platform then jump back on platform, drop from platform and drill immediately after landing. I don't fall for any of the feints nor do I get hit by the drill, but after the drill he dash dances closer to me, at which I respond by moving back because I feel his pressure. As I play better players it's becoming increasingly tougher for me to feel as if I'm pressuring them. I think I'm relying on movement as a wait/bait tool instead of using it to encroach on them...

One rule of the matchup I follow is use sword to counter their direct approaches. Might this be a situation in which I should break that rule and try to pressure them/hit them with my sword if they're not moving forward from a cornered position? Especially on platform?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think that is worth trying. Marth's Fair reaches at quite a helpful angle vs platform/jumping opponents.