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knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
Charles I have a serious question for you.

How is it that I, who knows so much about Marth and this game is so limited in skill? I feel like when people play me they are dissappointed because I'm not a total beast or w/e in this game. I also feel like I may have let them down. And lately I seem to be playing worse and worse. How can this be? How can a well respected player who has knowledge and trains hard and knows how to train not be good at this game?

WTF is my problem in your opinion?

How in the world can someone like me who already knows alot of tricks and strats improve?

I would hate to think that I have hit my limit.
__________________
hmm, don't you feel the limit yourself? I have taken the time to acquire a massive amount of knowledge as well..and have trained bazillions of tech skills and worked on experimenting with various tricks and punishments for various predictabilities of my opponent..but even so I can feel my limit very well..

this game has just so much to try to keep track of...matchup data....man is that a pain to think about..to remember in the next match that I have to switch up my style somewhat for the character..and then to adapt even further to my opponent.

and then switching characters of my own screws up my timing somewhat on the tech heavy stuff...and then there are the bazillion times in a match when i realize i should have done something else but then forget by the end of the match what it was i was supposed to have learned...improvement at this game certainly isn't easy once you get past the initial part.

And finally, for me at least it's a problem when my opponents don't switch it up or adapt like a pro...and then there are days when i hit some style that i've just never played against...but for you i'm guessing you have plenty of good players to play against..

but when you critique one of your own vids...do you really find it easy to remember to implement all of that in your next match? even while watching for your opponent to see if he switches it up? For me at least, the learning process is very slow.

Anyways, in my opinion, video is probably the best for seeing your flaws..that or asking your opponent..

heh, i just realized i may have reached my cap as well..because i adapt far too slow in matches..sure i learned all the basics like how to punish spotdodging and rolling really quickly and efficiently...sorta can deal with laser camping now...but there is still that inevitable switchup that i don't necessarily call in time..and it can even be stupidly simple yet i fall for it..

i mean i remember a match yesterday that i won...and i don't remember exactly what it was..but i remember it involved rolling by my opponent and that he kept escaping my follow up just barely while i was in lag from something else...and would then escape out of grab range rapidly..and i realized near the end that i had fallen for this 3 times when all i had to do was turn around and ftilt him as he tried to get out of range.

But sadly this vid wasn't recorded so i don't even really remember what was happening..jsut that i adapted too slow
 

Brightside6382

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
1,538
Location
Skokie, IL
Improving your game isn't taking it too seriously.

I must be obsessed too then. :s
If he's harping over why he's not getting better then he is. The problem I notice with alot of players in general is that they just try so hard to get better and just burn/frustrate themselves 3x quicker.
 

Saph66

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
269
Location
Toronto, Ontario
If he's harping over why he's not getting better then he is. The problem I notice with alot of players in general is that they just try so hard to get better and just burn/frustrate themselves 3x quicker.
Yea, this is true. Emblem Lord you're probably forgetting to have fun while playing the game, its not just all about owning and getting better. Just relax, have fun and get better at the same time. But yea, like Bright said, you're probably frustrating yourself.
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
Well Emblem Lord I don't know who you play (you do live in NJ so I'm assuming you get some decent playtime with the pros there like M2K and Cactuar) but I always notice the biggest jump in my skill after I get a big ol *** whoopin by someone way better than me and ask them what I could do to improve. Its good to play your peers and people who are as close to skill as you are but you will only make gradual improvement. Maybe you also feel like you should be a lot better than you really are. For the top pros it basically boils down to experience and willingness to succeed. How many major tournaments have you attended? Do you play top professionals on a regular basis and try to learn from your mistakes? I think some people are overcomplicating the issue saying that there is too much to process on each matchup and swithching characters... nonsense! Really you just need a general idea of what to do and play smart.

The way I see it is that the more you build up your knowledge and general tech skill/whatever at the game the more you are building up your overall potential. But experience against other players is what really brings that out and to good use.
 

Retroking2000

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
London , Silver Street
“Adaptability” ~ is a loaded term... so have you load it in to any match you play ./I think thats the problem with Emblem Lord . First, let’s look at its opposite: Planning. Some players are highly concerned with knowing exactly how the game “system” works. They have deep knowledge of the game rules, the consequences of the rules, and the optimal situations they want to create. They have a plan. They will know that in a certain situation the opponent has ~

The Planner knows all the ins and outs of this situation, how to steer the game into it, and the “solution” to it.
which is somewhat surprising to me. I would think that players who have a deep knowledge of the game system and know the optimal responses to all guessing games are the players who would tend to come out on top. Perhaps the personality type of the Planner is so rare that it simply occupies a proportionately small number of the really good players ...
 

D1

Banned via Administration
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,811
Location
Twitter @xD1x
When can we play again? I miss your sword cutting my Fox's tail in half V_v.
 

cablepuff

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
608
Cactuar: your old sig was a lot better. hobgoblin ftw. btw what commericial or scene was your pic from? (the new one).
 

DuKe™

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 4, 2006
Messages
491
Location
Houston, TEXAS
american psycho i think

and i have trouble against falcon, all i do is up throw tech chase and shield grab back throw edgegaurd which doesn't work
 

WhatIsFear

Smash Ace
Joined
May 26, 2005
Messages
509
random question but, does anybody know which version of smash doesnt let you lightshield edgeguard marths up b? supposedly its version dependent.
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,776
Location
West Chester, PA
hey cactuar mr.

yea...i have a hard time DIing out of marths grabs and for that matter not getting grabbed. any tips? whats the best way to DI while getting CG'd and whats the best strat against a marth with fox to prevent as many grabs as possible.
 

Cuno56

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
88
Location
Humble, Texas
random question but, does anybody know which version of smash doesnt let you lightshield edgeguard marths up b? supposedly its version dependent.
I'm pretty sure it works in all versions, but I have no experience with PAL, so maybe that's more PAL weirdness? As for US versions, I'm almost completely certain it works.
 

Ether

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 14, 2005
Messages
665
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
How do you play against people you've never played before?

And since I know you're going to say, "I **** them," be more specific.


...

"I **** them hard" is not a valid answer, either.
 

Keitaro

Banned via Administration
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
11,941
Location
Piscataway, NJ
Ok

So when I mm you twice "Cactuar", you consistenly would fair me, I would block, then you'd dash dance behind me and grab. This feels so hard for me to pull normally against people I play.

Is it cause I'm L-canceling into the dash dance too slow or was it that I was scared ****less so when you fair my block I was too slow to grab/do something?
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
Oh Cactuar where can I get one of those Cactuar plushies that you have???
If you get me one I'll give you my hat!!!
EDIT: Yeah you're right about the joystick thing!!!
:colorful:
Mow gave me that Cactuar plushie. I think he got it somewhere in New York, but they aren't entirely uncommon. If I see one I'll look into getting it for you. :laugh:

This is why you have this topic and not me. As I said, I'm not good :). Do you think that empty short hops can be used to approach? If the opponent thinks you will control the space in front of you by doing a fair, you might be able to get a quick grab out of the empty SH. Obviously, one wouldn't want to repeat this over and over to avoid predictability.
I use empty hops a bit more these days. It's more of a general fighter game technique/approach, but it's still effective in smash if you use it right. I generally spam a lot of moves onto the person to train their mindset into thinking I will attack again, then land and grab instead one time out of however many. Generic mix-up games.

Eh, here's a pretty general question.

Marth's "chain grab" at 0%.

1) is there anyway to DI away from the 2nd/3rd grab(s)
and
2) is there anyway to avoid tipper, or are you forced to block/roll/dodge? (as in, can you DI completely out of the range?)
DI down and away, if your opponent isn't fast enough, he will miss the grab. Buffer roll away or standing grab him back.

The tipper should never hit if you DI properly.

So, is there a guide, or something like that, that I can look at to find out what I am supposed to do at what %'s when I grab every characters?

Or at least,

Fox
Falco
Shiek
Marth
Peach
Samus
Falcon
IC
Doc/Mario
Link
Ganondorf.


>_>...
This is really something you just need to play and experiment with to understand. I do things that I'm comfortable with out of grabs, so using what I tell you would only change your play style in a way that might not work for you. Everything is situational really.

..Umm here is a question.

What are the basics to be a good Marth? >>; I keep playing Marth as Roy and I get killed. Is it spacing well? Or is it that the fact you need to have good mind games?
Knowledge of your characters move set, knowledge of your opponent's character's move set, knowing how to properly implement your movement to maximize stage coverage, knowing how to control space, knowing how to combo, etc. These are the important aspects of the game. Everything comes together in the end, creating your specific play style.

heres a question

****ing cactuar.....?
Hey baby. I miss you. <3 ;)

Oh my bad...Umm what does a good Marth need? Like spacing or does Marth need to be techy? There we go. ^^: That's actually my question. A good simplfy Marth without being Flashy or a Flashy Marth?
Look above at the question Dark Knight asked. That's the basics of having a good Marth. Your Marth style should just be what you want it to, you don't have to be either. Players that have a lot of versatility in their ability to switch their styles can do well.

Don't be stupid like me.

Cactuar, do you ever get any johns for winning? Or epic johns for epic? And do you ever release some johns when you lose? Do you ever lose?
Not usually. Some people complain about camping, but "To camp good is to be good. I don't really john. I'm either playing better than my opponent or worse. Or make stupid decisions. And sometimes throw matches because I'm a cactus.

Charles I have a serious question for you.

How is it that I, who knows so much about Marth and this game is so limited in skill? I feel like when people play me they are dissappointed because I'm not a total beast or w/e in this game. I also feel like I may have let them down. And lately I seem to be playing worse and worse. How can this be? How can a well respected player who has knowledge and trains hard and knows how to train not be good at this game?

WTF is my problem in your opinion?

How in the world can someone like me who already knows alot of tricks and strats improve?

I would hate to think that I have hit my limit.
I don't want to make a big post on this because people don't like the idea of it, but the answer is really just natural talent. Possibly combined with environmental effects such as training partners and such. I like to say that having a good attitude towards improvement is what helped me so much, but I am (this sounds conceited) really just that kind of person that learns everything easily. Some people just have to work much much harder than others to succeed.

Thats a good question. I, not really being a Cactus, can't answer that for you.

Which begs the question: why the hell did i post?

:ohwell:
Because you are begging for my attention. Because I'm a cactus. And I'm awesome.

This is OMG Poniez! thread.

bursting out huge laughters when playing marth will help marth's metagame right?
Only if it's because you Cactuar combo'd someone.

Cactuar: Why is my sig so awesome?
Because American Psycho was a fantastic movie. Your favorite actually. And Christian Bale is amazing.

When can we play again? I miss your sword cutting my Fox's tail in half V_v.
Next time I come to a NY tournament. :laugh:

Finally, someone well-known posts here...

Ok, this might be kind of vague, but what's the most effective way to fight Captain Falcon?
Grabs, utilts, short combos into fsmash, edge camping. Make sure you can edge guard him well.

Cactuar: your old sig was a lot better. hobgoblin ftw. btw what commericial or scene was your pic from? (the new one).
American Psycho.

random question but, does anybody know which version of smash doesnt let you lightshield edgeguard marths up b? supposedly its version dependent.
It's not version dependent. You can do it in all of them. Some characters can't do it if you sweet spot properly though, unless they do something specific.

hey cactuar mr.

yea...i have a hard time DIing out of marths grabs and for that matter not getting grabbed. any tips? whats the best way to DI while getting CG'd and whats the best strat against a marth with fox to prevent as many grabs as possible.
Use slight DI when getting chaingrabbed. Not getting grabbed at all is something you just have to work on.

Why does Cort steal your topics?
Because we are brethren, locked in an eternal duel of sword and turnip.

Is Tails going to be playable to SSBB?
Maybe.

Is a 5th Knee possible?


Breaking the 5th Knee. A classic.
With Falcon, anything can be possible/awesome.

(DI dependent)

How do you play against people you've never played before?

And since I know you're going to say, "I **** them," be more specific.


...

"I **** them hard" is not a valid answer, either.
I sandbag them and learn their style first.

Ok

So when I mm you twice "Cactuar", you consistenly would fair me, I would block, then you'd dash dance behind me and grab. This feels so hard for me to pull normally against people I play.

Is it cause I'm L-canceling into the dash dance too slow or was it that I was scared ****less so when you fair my block I was too slow to grab/do something?
You have to do a late fair or uair into immediate dash through. It can't be shieldgrabbed if done properly.

You just need to work on the timing. Don't use it too often though, it can be countered really easily >.>
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Keitaro: You read my mix-up thread correct? That's all it is. A dash cross up after a fair. As soon as Marth hit's the ground just dash forward. The timing is brain dead easy.

Also if you try to shield grab Marth after a fair you are just asking to be crossed up when he shuffles another fair.

Don't shield grab. Do something else. Like SH Dair or wavedash forward to DD grab.

Experiment.
 

Sensei

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Messages
1,991
Location
North Hollywood, CA
American Psycho is an amazing movie. I gots two questions...
Why do you up smash so much? And, are you really Batman disguised as a Cactus?
 

Keitaro

Banned via Administration
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
11,941
Location
Piscataway, NJ
You have to do a late fair or uair into immediate dash through. It can't be shieldgrabbed if done properly.

You just need to work on the timing. Don't use it too often though, it can be countered really easily >.>
Emblem Lord said:
Keitaro: You read my mix-up thread correct? That's all it is. A dash cross up after a fair. As soon as Marth hit's the ground just dash forward. The timing is brain dead easy.

Also if you try to shield grab Marth after a fair you are just asking to be crossed up when he shuffles another fair.

Don't shield grab. Do something else. Like SH Dair or wavedash forward to DD grab.

Experiment.
Soooo.....
RaynEX said:
It was the latter. I'm sure of it. >_>
:p

I always thought it was just me being scared or moving slowly. Now that I know it's otherwise, I should be able to learn to do it. Next time I play either of you "EL or Cactuar" I'll abuse it like hell to show I learned it :laugh:....after that I'll play normal of course.
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
Do you go Water Marth (blue marth) every 200 matches or so to safely water your Cactus Marth?

Is there any particular tactic you hope will still be in Brawl? For me I hope dashdancing and L-canceling are still in.

Are you going to SMASHTACLYSM?

In a 100$ moneymatch who would you pick as your opponent on FD: PC Chris, Mew2king, or KoreanDJ?

If a Fox is about midway off the stage (Capable of Phantasming or Firefoxing barely onto the stage is the estimated distance) and they are following. What goes through your mind as they fall and if they continue falling all the way past the edge?
 

Virgilijus

Nonnulli Laskowski praestant
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
14,387
Location
Sunny Bromsgrove
Edge guarding Jigglypuff: do you typically wait on top off or hang of the edge? Occasionally I can trick them into a ledge hop spike, but it's risky. I would go for b-airs, but unless they are at heavy damage (coming from below) it just gives them enough height to pound back with ease. Help?
 

Bailey

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
5,057
Location
Rockland County,NY
When I edge-guard Jiggly I just empty double jump FF then do it with an F-Air. Try and get them not to land on the edge. Then Up-Tilt
 

cablepuff

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
608
Why is American psycho so great.

Favorite scene from it and if possible how does that scene help playing marth.

Favorite quote from the movie.
 

B-Will

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
1,807
Location
Palo Alto, California
Attn: Cactuar

Why is half of this thread not related to smash?

Also, I think you played light at SCC. What did you think of him? How did the matches go?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
what's smash?

yeah I thought that was american psycho. I enjoyed watching him chase the girl w/ the chainsaw more.

upsmash is so good.
 
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