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Official Captain Falcon Video Critique Thread

Citizen Snips

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
475
Location
Yardley PA
Thanks heaps. When you talk about the aerial do you mean fiddle with different heights of aerials and using them in that way or something else?

The DD thing is something i've been working on recently but have yet to impliment properly in my game.. I can actually pivot all my aerials but i see what you're saying with the lack of pivots in this set.
What I was referring to was the fact that you look unsure about how to place Falcon's precision moves like knee and stomp in certain scenarios. You can get the dthrow knees fine, but you seem scared to finish something with knee sometimes (Like at 0:33. He's down and you've committed to covering the miss tech, so why not a knee? You wouldn't be able to follow up either one anyway), and when you do opt to use it you generally overshoot your mark. This happened three times in the first 45 seconds of the match. Additionally, your aerials onto and off of platforms are very weak. Most of the time you either fast fall off a plat to early and don't even complete the aerial or you miss the l-cancel onto/off of it. This is where the running around platforms doing aerials will help. You need to get a feel for the exact point at which you will land on the plat so that missed l-cancels like at 0:30 and 0:46 don't happen.

And with the pivots, a lot of people think that they can pivot, when in reality they can't. There are multiple instances where you should have pivot grabbed but didn't. If you can't pivot empty hop in place on command, you need to practice them. Try it out. Maybe you have the tech skill already, in which case great, start integrating it. But I'm going to guess that if you aren't DDing effectively you probably don't actually have pivots down. Remember, a pivot is a frame perfect input. You only have one frame to enter the action. If you do a pivot empty hop, you shouldn't move horizontally at all. Watch videos of Hax (Falcon Hax, not traitor Hax), Lord, or s2j (Especially Lord though. His pivot uairs are a thing of beauty) and you can see when they pivot.

Good luck man. You've got a solid foundation. Outside of the instances I mentioned, your shffls are solid and you seem to have a good grasp on early uair usage which is actually pretty tough.. Work on your combo game for sure though. Hammer out combos on a level 1 CPU Marth. If it's not a 0 to death, try again until it is.
 

bertbusdriver

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Norcal
Mid tier falcon looking for some critique
Looking for advise on this tournament set i played. I know there were crucial SD's which cost me the match.
Also any small advice on the matchup would be good too. Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPFVrFtB2KY
I don't have anything specific to say other than that I watched the GF of that tournament as well, and you aren't far from beating the guys who placed #1 and #2. Just do less silly stuff.
 

Bu$

HoC
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
559
Location
Melbourne, Australia
What I was referring to was the fact that you look unsure about how to place Falcon's precision moves like knee and stomp in certain scenarios. You can get the dthrow knees fine, but you seem scared to finish something with knee sometimes (Like at 0:33. He's down and you've committed to covering the miss tech, so why not a knee? You wouldn't be able to follow up either one anyway), and when you do opt to use it you generally overshoot your mark. This happened three times in the first 45 seconds of the match. Additionally, your aerials onto and off of platforms are very weak. Most of the time you either fast fall off a plat to early and don't even complete the aerial or you miss the l-cancel onto/off of it. This is where the running around platforms doing aerials will help. You need to get a feel for the exact point at which you will land on the plat so that missed l-cancels like at 0:30 and 0:46 don't happen.

And with the pivots, a lot of people think that they can pivot, when in reality they can't. There are multiple instances where you should have pivot grabbed but didn't. If you can't pivot empty hop in place on command, you need to practice them. Try it out. Maybe you have the tech skill already, in which case great, start integrating it. But I'm going to guess that if you aren't DDing effectively you probably don't actually have pivots down. Remember, a pivot is a frame perfect input. You only have one frame to enter the action. If you do a pivot empty hop, you shouldn't move horizontally at all. Watch videos of Hax (Falcon Hax, not traitor Hax), Lord, or s2j (Especially Lord though. His pivot uairs are a thing of beauty) and you can see when they pivot.

Good luck man. You've got a solid foundation. Outside of the instances I mentioned, your shffls are solid and you seem to have a good grasp on early uair usage which is actually pretty tough.. Work on your combo game for sure though. Hammer out combos on a level 1 CPU Marth. If it's not a 0 to death, try again until it is.
Thanks heaps man. Taking this all in so the next few vids i get i'll be better. The over shooting aerial thing is more of a player matchup thing because i play "codie" all the time and he loves WD back punishes so i usually over shoot to either punish it or land safe behind him.

Sorry to be a bother but if you didn't watch the other two matches of the set, are you able to? I would like to get as much stuff as i can to work on. In the mean time i think i'll hit the lab with my combo food marth. ;)
 

Citizen Snips

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
475
Location
Yardley PA
Thanks heaps man. Taking this all in so the next few vids i get i'll be better. The over shooting aerial thing is more of a player matchup thing because i play "codie" all the time and he loves WD back punishes so i usually over shoot to either punish it or land safe behind him.

Sorry to be a bother but if you didn't watch the other two matches of the set, are you able to? I would like to get as much stuff as i can to work on. In the mean time i think i'll hit the lab with my combo food marth. ;)
Alright so round 2. Here you seemed a lot more comfortable with the stage. Do you practice on DL? If so, I would really recommend practicing tech skill integration exclusively on FoD first as the changing platform heights really force you to learn it reactively instead of instinctually, which will help you form a more dynamic playstyle. However the more controlled play I saw on this stage was a lot nicer and gives me a little more to work with at a higher level.

First thing to note is that you're really missing out on a great tool Falcon has for ledgeguarding, that being his invincible DJ ledgestall. If you timing it perfectly so that you grab the ledge at the exact peak of your double jump you can actually maintain full invincibility on the ledge. This is really great for edgeguarding characters who have a persistent recovery hitbox like Samus, Marth, Roy, etc. There are two different ways of doing it, one where you DJ above the stage and then FF to the ledge again and one where you FF off the ledge and DJ back to it. Either one works, the second is easier, but try and master both as mixing them up makes your ledge recoveries much more hard to read.

Second, moving away from the mostly technical advice I've given you and into the mental realm, is your stomps. THREE times you stomped Samus and she immediately getup attacked as you tried to stomp again. You need to be looking for these patterns as they will net you INSANELY better punishes. Reading your opponents tech and knockdown options is paramount for Falcon, so you should really focus on this. If your opponent does something once in a specific scenario, you should be cautious about it the next time that scenario occurs and position yourself accordingly. If they do it twice, you should almost always cover it the third time.

Now this is important to note. Reading patterns like these is something you're going to have to really rewire your brain to recognize. It's not obvious without training yourself to see it, so it may sound like I'm making something obscure seem obvious. "How am I supposed to identify a pattern in getup attacks? There's so much going on." This is where Melee gets hard. You need to find a way to mentally store patterns you make note of so you can capitalize upon them later. I would really recommend making a point to train this during practice. Pick out a pattern you want to be able to read. The easiest one is probably reading techs, as there are only four options. Practice by having one of your friends play a spacie. Don't tell them why, but make it a point to regrab tech chase them and see if you can identify any patterns in their rolls. From here you can build up a foundation and teach yourself the best way to store data like this in your mind. I personally like to write down a bunch of possible patterns and practice each one individually until I feel comfortable in recognizing it.

Reading patterns is going to be THE SINGULAR MOST IMPORTANT THING you can do at the moment. It will teach you spacing (If you recognize yourself getting punished over and over for misspaced aerials, you're going to fix it or you're going to claw your eyes out with frustration), it will teach you how to tech chase ("I'm always a little late regrabbing Fox. Maybe I should WD with his DI out of dthrow?" - The pattern recognition that revolutionized my spacie game), and it will teach you how to punish. This doesn't mean going for insane hard reads all the time, although there probably will be a point where that's all you want to do. Instead, it will teach you how to get the best option coverage by allowing your brain to properly analyze the game at a higher level.

Sorry if you already know all of this, but I looooove the mental side of Falcon. A player who has the ability to precisely control Falcon as I believe you're close to being able to will be able to immediately capitalize off of his pattern punishes. I personally tried getting into mental game before I had the tech skill, which really impeded my progress, but I feel like you would have much more success at this stage than I would.
 

Captain Smuckers

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
492
Location
Mount Vernon, NY
Hey guys, I recently tried switchin back to falcon and know I have a lot of work to do so I was lookin for a bit of help if ya don't mind :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5lNg7MtJOI (vs Fox)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfngDJiQt10 (vs Ice climbers)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KwmVq6DJQ (vs Sheik)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwNzeKa2pj4 (vs Fox)

I'd say fox is the one that I need to work on the most, but I'd love critique on anything

PS I don't mean to skip the line, twinkles was here first
 

Citizen Snips

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
475
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Yardley PA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpi05_IRZ3Q
i do **** up a lot of grab setups in this set and i'm kinda salty about it lol

fire away boys n girls
i'll also post a better set to critique with westballz because i get junked hard so you guys'll have a lot to critique lol
You're not patient enough in neutral. A good Sheik will wreck you for throwing out reckless nairs out of a DD like that. You were doing some really good DI'd back pivot nairs early on but you kind of forgot about it. Also you're challenging Sheik on the ledge, which is never a good idea. Space aerials and make her feel like she's going to have trouble getting on, but don't screw up or you're getting grabbed at the ledge.

Really digging your reads on those rolls and your tech chase aerial choices. What was the evidence you used to read the roll at 4:25?
 
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bertbusdriver

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Norcal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpi05_IRZ3Q
i do **** up a lot of grab setups in this set and i'm kinda salty about it lol

fire away boys n girls
i'll also post a better set to critique with westballz because i get junked hard so you guys'll have a lot to critique lol
I always forget zeo = twinkles on smashboards ROFL. I was like 'oh man i hope i meet this twinkles guy someday'
 

Citizen Snips

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
475
Location
Yardley PA
Hey guys, I recently tried switchin back to falcon and know I have a lot of work to do so I was lookin for a bit of help if ya don't mind :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5lNg7MtJOI (vs Fox)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfngDJiQt10 (vs Ice climbers)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KwmVq6DJQ (vs Sheik)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwNzeKa2pj4 (vs Fox)

I'd say fox is the one that I need to work on the most, but I'd love critique on anything

PS I don't mean to skip the line, twinkles was here first
You don't regrab a lot against Fox. It's guaranteeeeeeed and you can pummel to rack up damage
 

Twinkles

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
1,022
Location
SoCal
You're not patient enough in neutral. A good Sheik will wreck you for throwing out reckless nairs out of a DD like that. You were doing some really good DI'd back pivot nairs early on but you kind of forgot about it. Also you're challenging Sheik on the ledge, which is never a good idea. Space aerials and make her feel like she's going to have trouble getting on, but don't screw up or you're getting grabbed at the ledge.

Really digging your reads on those rolls and your tech chase aerial choices. What was the evidence you used to read the roll at 4:25?
thanks for the reply dawg

yeah i got too complacent while i was up, def. needed to play more patient then punish harder and widen that juicy lead
idk, i don't find di'd back pivot nairs super useful against sheik cuz she never really jumps into them or runs into them much. useful bait, just awkward at close spacing distance from personal experience.

also, uh, give me an idea about what spacing for aerials to use to make sheik feel pressured. i haven't looked at it much from the other side of the mu, so i'm not exactly sure when in the middle of shino-stalling a sheik will a sheik feel like it's just super duper unsafe to get on. this'll also help me figure out what to do if sheik starts ledge-stalling if she gets a lead on me, i know i had trouble with that before and still probably do now

i think 4:25 was on reaction, i just dd'd there and caught him rollin' as i was doing the dash-back, so i moved to hit a button. it might've been a hard read though cuz my head was foggy, and i might've actually intentionally done a dash attack because i am sometimes weird like that haha
 

CountOlaf

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
35
Location
Maryland
Yo, here's a vid of me fighting a Sheik from a tourney last Sunday. I'd appreciate comments and criticisms. Warning, the commentary is pretty **** by Pooch.

http://www.twitch.tv/jackkenney/c/4890785
I only watched set one but picked up on a lot of bad habits that you have, so I'll do my best to help you. You're a very solid player with a few major flaws away from becoming a very strong one.

Your biggest flaw is a lack of a dash dance game. You did a lot of approaching in this matchup, which honestly is the last thing you want to do. Sheik's f-tilt is the perfect anti-air for falcon's nair and knee, making it really hard to approach. Plus it leads into grab, which will probably lead to you dying. You ran into so many attacks because your approach game is too predictable. You shffl an aerial pretty much every time. Mix it up with more grabs, run up shields, and dash dances to change your timing on approaches. This'll help you be less predictable, while still keeping your generally aggressive game plan.

Your punish game also had some big holes in it. A lot of the time, you would hit with a nair, and follow up with a randomly placed stomp. Everytime you hit with a nair, it should be like getting a grab (aka death for sheik). Always follow up a nair on a grounded sheik with a grab, or an up air into a running grab if you hit the sheik in midair (or more up airs depending on di). There were also times that stomps or raptor boosts led into nothing. Try and kill sheik off of any opening. Dash dancing should help your punish game, as it'll do two things for you: First, it'll lead into your opponent missing more often, and you getting more grabs. Second, it'll help your nairs. Many of your nairs only hit with the first hit because you're not really spacing the nairs. You're too desperate to land the hit, so you don't think of the follow up. Dash dance so that you can make micro adjustments to the spacing. Always space so that the tip of your toes hit, so you avoid crouch cancel down smash / down tilt / grab, and so you get your best punishes.

One really bad habit you had in recovering was always double jumping asap. At low percents, you can sometimes get away with double jump kneeing on stage, but it shouldn't be your go to option. Di down and away on most throws, and then sweetspot the ledge with a dj. If you get bad di, then avoid a hit, and fast fall untill you can dj sweet spot, so that you don't have to use Falcon's awful up b.

Other notes:

Learn to do the sdi on a no tech trick. Basically, sheik has a guaranteed regrab on falcon's tech during down throw. Throw sheik a curveball by not teching. They'll usually jab this to regrab you, but if you sdi up, you can dj out of the tech chase, and get away. You always teched, and as a result, the sheik player kept regrabbing you.

More jabs on shield. You got shieldgrabbed a couple of times because of bad spacing, but also because you didn't gentelman the shield. It can be unsafe at times, but it's better than nothing most of the time.

Wavedash OOS more, and aerial out of your shield less.

I also didn't like the FD stage selection. That works very well against sheiks when you can 0-death them, but as I said earlier, there were flaws in the punish game. Plus, sheik can do the same to falcon, making it a risky Counterpick for even the best falcons.

Don't jump so much. You have less defensive options out of a jump than you do on the ground. You can't shield or change direction very well, and you'll usually get dash dance grabbed. If you do jump, make sure you won't get hit, or that your approach will hit.

When you dash danced the most, it was in the game on FD. It led to a few opportunities that made the difference in the game, more so than the stage selection.

To do list: Watch plenty of hax vs m2k, copy his style (or add some of his style if you don't want to play that defensively)

You have great movement, reads, and tech skill. You can moonwalk all the way across fd, but had a few tech skill errors (mostly l cancel errors on shield), but that happens to everyone. Just add more patience, and defensive play. I didn't see many edge-guarding opportunities, but that falcon punch was pretty ****ing awesome. I hope this helped in some way and you don't see this as a scathing criticism. I just wanted to point out what I saw the sheik player exploiting. Good job on Grand Finals, keep up the hard work, and keep repping Falcon!
 

bleepbleep

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
15
here's a vid of my second tournement i went to yesterday, I'd love some comments and criticisms.


and yes i know about them falcon punches.
 

CountOlaf

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
35
Location
Maryland
here's a vid of my second tournement i went to yesterday, I'd love some comments and criticisms.


and yes i know about them falcon punches.
So, I was very confused watching this at first. Your playstyle is very different from what I am used to seeing. I think it worked well to catch your opponent off guard. However, there are a number of poor choices in general.

The first thing I noticed was your love of jumping. A lot of your neutral is filled with empty hops, and every approach is sh knee. Your opponent managed to get hit by this approach way too many times. To put it blunty, knee is a poor approach, especially when compared with neutral air, and the approaches were predictable. I liked how you adjusted the second game, though, as you dash danced around your opponent, and earned a few grabs off of his bad approaches. Add dash dances more consistently, and use it to approach better. Be more patient and wait for approaching. Also, jumping kinda limits options, as its hard to change direction, and you can't block. Make sure you only jump when its safe.

Another habit I picked up on was a lot of double jumps. Against marth, DJ in neutral is occasionally good as a bait, while mixed into a dash dance, or with some empty hops. However, you went above marth, and baited him into swinging, and then dj knee'd him many times. While this worked, and I commend you for exploiting your opponent, just make sure not to continue doing it against a more skilled opponent. They will swipe you out of it, and without a dj, falcon basically can't recover, especially against marth.

Your punish game also could use work. While your opponent had a weaker one, which generally gave you the victory, a lot of your hits were single hit knees. USE MORE UAIR!!! This move is so ****ing good against marth. It practically wins you the matchup. Read up info on various combos against Marth in the Falcon index, or watch Hax vs. The Moon / Pewpewu to get a general idea of combos. The basic rule of thumb is below 30% dthrow tech chase. Above 30%, uairs start combing into uairs, so just go crazy. Also, if you opponent is above 100%, dthrow knee them. Above around 85%? Uthrow to knee works.

Lastly, work on your edgeguarding please. It was horrendous. Grab edge against marth. Standing on edge will usually result with him hitting you with dolphin slash, or dj fairing to get on stage, which falcon struggles to punish. Grab edge against marth, and drop down and regrab to refresh invincibility. Let Marth get close to the edge. From here, the punish can be on reaction. If he is aiming to recover high, lege hop bair or uair him away, which will usually kill him, or setup another edgeguard. If he goes below, ledgehop backwards to regrab. This will dodge his dolphin slash or any attempt at dj stagespiking you on ledge. Then, you either roll if he tries to stage spike, thus edgehogging him, or ledgehop reverse knee, or stomp at lower percents. Also, i think ledegehop falcon punch might work, if you do it early because marth has a lot of landing lag, but i'm not positive on that.

Hope this helps your Falcon game! Nice job winning your match, but keep these things in mind to improve your game! Good luck!
 

jkenney1

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
22
I only watched set one but picked up on a lot of bad habits that you have, so I'll do my best to help you. You're a very solid player with a few major flaws away from becoming a very strong one.

Your biggest flaw is a lack of a dash dance game. You did a lot of approaching in this matchup, which honestly is the last thing you want to do. Sheik's f-tilt is the perfect anti-air for falcon's nair and knee, making it really hard to approach. Plus it leads into grab, which will probably lead to you dying. You ran into so many attacks because your approach game is too predictable. You shffl an aerial pretty much every time. Mix it up with more grabs, run up shields, and dash dances to change your timing on approaches. This'll help you be less predictable, while still keeping your generally aggressive game plan.

Your punish game also had some big holes in it. A lot of the time, you would hit with a nair, and follow up with a randomly placed stomp. Everytime you hit with a nair, it should be like getting a grab (aka death for sheik). Always follow up a nair on a grounded sheik with a grab, or an up air into a running grab if you hit the sheik in midair (or more up airs depending on di). There were also times that stomps or raptor boosts led into nothing. Try and kill sheik off of any opening. Dash dancing should help your punish game, as it'll do two things for you: First, it'll lead into your opponent missing more often, and you getting more grabs. Second, it'll help your nairs. Many of your nairs only hit with the first hit because you're not really spacing the nairs. You're too desperate to land the hit, so you don't think of the follow up. Dash dance so that you can make micro adjustments to the spacing. Always space so that the tip of your toes hit, so you avoid crouch cancel down smash / down tilt / grab, and so you get your best punishes.

One really bad habit you had in recovering was always double jumping asap. At low percents, you can sometimes get away with double jump kneeing on stage, but it shouldn't be your go to option. Di down and away on most throws, and then sweetspot the ledge with a dj. If you get bad di, then avoid a hit, and fast fall untill you can dj sweet spot, so that you don't have to use Falcon's awful up b.

Other notes:

Learn to do the sdi on a no tech trick. Basically, sheik has a guaranteed regrab on falcon's tech during down throw. Throw sheik a curveball by not teching. They'll usually jab this to regrab you, but if you sdi up, you can dj out of the tech chase, and get away. You always teched, and as a result, the sheik player kept regrabbing you.

More jabs on shield. You got shieldgrabbed a couple of times because of bad spacing, but also because you didn't gentelman the shield. It can be unsafe at times, but it's better than nothing most of the time.

Wavedash OOS more, and aerial out of your shield less.

I also didn't like the FD stage selection. That works very well against sheiks when you can 0-death them, but as I said earlier, there were flaws in the punish game. Plus, sheik can do the same to falcon, making it a risky Counterpick for even the best falcons.

Don't jump so much. You have less defensive options out of a jump than you do on the ground. You can't shield or change direction very well, and you'll usually get dash dance grabbed. If you do jump, make sure you won't get hit, or that your approach will hit.

When you dash danced the most, it was in the game on FD. It led to a few opportunities that made the difference in the game, more so than the stage selection.

To do list: Watch plenty of hax vs m2k, copy his style (or add some of his style if you don't want to play that defensively)

You have great movement, reads, and tech skill. You can moonwalk all the way across fd, but had a few tech skill errors (mostly l cancel errors on shield), but that happens to everyone. Just add more patience, and defensive play. I didn't see many edge-guarding opportunities, but that falcon punch was pretty ****ing awesome. I hope this helped in some way and you don't see this as a scathing criticism. I just wanted to point out what I saw the sheik player exploiting. Good job on Grand Finals, keep up the hard work, and keep repping Falcon!
Hey CountOlaf, thanks a ton for the critique. All your comments were insightful, and you've given me plenty of stuff to work on. I feel like I'm already aware of some of those flaws you pointed out, but I don't know exactly how to patch them.

I was missing a lot of punishes. Usually they're more solid. And yeah, I jump too often. Many times I'll doublejump for no reason and trade with something and die.

My neutral game needs the most work right now. Thankfully I'm living with a great Falcon main called ORLY this year. He's already my main training partner of a year or so now, and we're moving in together this week. I'll have hella good player experience by the time this year is up.

Y'all can expect big things out of me at Big House 4, by the way. ;)


EDIT: Oh yeah, CountOlaf, I think I played better set 2. If you have some spare time, I'd greatly appreciate some more feedback.
 
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bertbusdriver

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Norcal
first missed rest punish should have been a kill. You had plenty of time to go to the left side of jiggs and fully charge and fsmash or falcon punch (full charge fsmash is better if you have time for it). your second rest punish (after he killed you) was also not great... def had time to fsmash there too instead of a stomp with no potential followup.

And then you falcon punched him at zero off missed rest... i think stomp makes more sense in this position. if he doesn't hold down, you can either do another stomp and then tech chase or go for knee and combo from there. if he holds down, you still get a techchase.

you go for double jab a couple times after stomp. idk if that's good or not. i'd just do a single jab then followup depending on if i get the reset.

there were a couple of times you stomped but jiggs was above you. uair instead lol.

WD OOS more to reposition after he hits your shield instead of jumping so much OOS. Common jiggs pattern is to bair your shield and double jump and space another bair that will nail you on your jump OOS if you do a bad jump. This pattern is escaped with WD OOS backwards.

Abuse the fact that jiggs doesn't have good vertical mobility and is much more dominant in terms of horizontal hitboxes. You can platform camp a bit and force a good position easily, especially against a jiggs of this level. (no offense, jank). And keep in mind that you can scoop her with uair anytime she's above you.

I think you over commit to your aerials for no reason frequently.

This is only from game 1. Got other stuff to do today, lmk if this helps or if you want me to watch the rest lol
 

Twinkles

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
1,022
Location
SoCal
FD was an awful CP imo. As bert said, Jiggs has garbage vertical mobility, so you have more room to run circles around Jiggs when you have platforms. On, FD, she boxes you in a lot easier. You also are just having problems spacing against Jiggs, remember to mixup by at least WDing back when you feel like approaching, make the Jiggs wiff and punish them.

Pound is an awful move if it misses. If you bait it out at all, it a free grab or knee everytime pretty much.

Utilt and uair are the moves you should really focus on avoiding. Bair is next on the priority list, but if you bait out bad bairs, you can uair under them. Don't **** around with utilt and uair though.

If Puff is anywhere over 40%, just Falcon Punch here or charge fsmash her if you have the time to punish. If you're unsure it'll kill her, Darkrain escort her and walk her to the edge. Otherwise, stomp is great for racking up quick damage.

I feel like you don't have a great idea of when to back off and when to approach Jiggs. You give her way too much room at some points when she's just jumping all around when you could be just sharking underneath her, sniping her with uairs. At the same time, you run in guns blazing and face-first into a fair. If Jiggs is airborne, she is pretty much a sitting duck. If she's grounded, she's pretty much the most ****ing terrifying thing ever. Being patient does not mean squandering opportunities.

EDIT: I'm going to assume you banned DL on his CP. Ban FoD. You can run the **** away on DL like a champ. You have all the room to bait Puff to jump to catch you, then fall under and shark her with uairs. In all honesty, I think it's even a better stage pick than FD. I'm also assuming he banned PS and you didn't go with YS in your CP because it's not fantastic (I pick it anyway cuz I'm a YS fanboy lol).

EDIT2: SUPER PRO TIP: Every Jiggs I've ever played always DI jab towards me to cross me up in order to avoid jab -> grab. Jab -> turnaround grab as a habit against Puff IMO. You will feel like a GOOOOD.
 
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NFST4R

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
47
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Gilbert, Arizona
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Hello, I am a smasher/YouTuber from Arizona. My name is Jake and my tag is Homework, while my YouTube is called Retrocity. I play a lot of smash on my channel, from 64 to Melee/PM, (one day I will find it within myself to play Brawl) and I have recently posted a video of my friend and I doing Falcon ditto's. I was wondering if any of you could please give the video a look and give me some tips on what I can work on. Thank you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CCPtUMZgA4&list=UU4TYhjnXAv7-fTWvggLR5ZQ
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Yooooooo it's good to see familiar faces still doing good for the community
How it's going dudes

Also NFST4R I will check out your video and see if I have anything to contribute - I've been out of the scene for a long time but I might be able to pick out some stuff
 

NFST4R

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47
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Gilbert, Arizona
NNID
NFEEMNOMM
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Yooooooo it's good to see familiar faces still doing good for the community
How it's going dudes

Also NFST4R I will check out your video and see if I have anything to contribute - I've been out of the scene for a long time but I might be able to pick out some stuff
Hey dude I appreciate it a ton I am just trying to get some opinions on what to improve on. Thank you so much, 0Room
 

0Room

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Boone, NC
Hey dude I appreciate it a ton I am just trying to get some opinions on what to improve on. Thank you so much, 0Room
So I just watched your first MM set [maybe not MM but bo5] and it's hard to say just because you're pretty significantly better than your friend here. You just kind of run him over and here's not a lot he can do about it. For example, when you're in your 3rd match of that set, you JV4 stock him. That's kind of a difference.

So what I'm getting at here is that if you'd like a better representation of your problems, I'd prefer that you upload a different set, even one where you lose. We're not necessarily interested in looking good as much as getting better [though it is an incredibly seductive thing to upload stuff where you trash people]

So basically here's what I noticed
1) You mess up a lot of tech skill stuff. I'm basically having the same issue after coming back from a long time - "easy" things like uthrow knee or even attempting to lcancel an autocancelled bair because I'm dumb leading me to shield in place. These are things that I'm watching you make the mistakes of doing and obviously you're losing pressure on your opponent because of that. Tightening tech skill is something I've always struggled with so the only answers I can give you is practice it until it doesn't happen anymore. Maybe in friendlies just super focus on getting one thing right consistently or something

2) You have a lot of patterns that aren't being captalized on due to you being better than your friend. For example, you have a tendency to DJknee off the ledge, even if that dude was so far there was no way you could hit them. Watching it again, you do vary your ledgehop habits but even so there's a clear pattern there.

3) Remember all of your options when you are up against someone who is on the ground. I don't think you consider shield grabbing a get up attack an option, where both of those would have netted you a grab and possibly a kill.

TL;DR
Video isn't the best representation of what you need to work on because your opponent isn't on the same level. You have certain patterns that are fatal in any sort of match up but particular falcon dittos, and remember all of your options. Also tech skill needs to improve so you're not missing guaranteed things
 
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CitizenSNIPS

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
55
Dude you confused me so much. I was like, "I did not post this. What the hell is going on?"

Might as well contribute to my doppleganger, even if it's probably so late that the videos aren't relevant anymore.

You gotta get your SHFFL's down. Specifically the fast fall part. Neither of you were fast falling anything and it wrecked your ability to combo. Trust me, that is #1 top priority if you still can't do it. Until then there's not too much point in critiquing since your gameplay will change so drastically afterwards.
Haven't watched the vids in a long time but I'm a bit surprised that I wasn't SHFFLing. I know how to do it but maybe I was playing a bit lazy in those games. Watched a clip from one of those vids and noticed I wasn't SHFFLing, but during those parts I wasn't comboing and instead just trying to pot shot with BAIR or NAIR. I should be SHFFLing with FAIR and DAIR pretty consistently though. Thanks, not sure how intentional it was that I was not SHFFLing in the parts I rewatched.

Also, I recognize your GT from EVO, thnk you made it out of pools in MK9 or Injustice. I used to go to MK9 tournaments, the two years the game was out. Did well in locals and did OK but nothing special in majors. Might get back into the tourny scene with the new Smash and MKX coming out. We might have to do something about our identical GT though haha. People usually just refer to me as Snips when calling me by my GT so maybe I'll change it to just that. Never saw anyone on XBL or forums with the same name
 

net1234

Smash Ace
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
738
Location
SLC Utah
hey guiz. so i was sleeping last night and i dreamed of a combo and i want to know if its remotely possible. knee, jump into aerial falcon kick, jump knee again. then taunt repeatedly. could it happen?
 

bertbusdriver

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Norcal
hey guiz. so i was sleeping last night and i dreamed of a combo and i want to know if its remotely possible. knee, jump into aerial falcon kick, jump knee again. then taunt repeatedly. could it happen?
if your aerial falcon kick hits the ground it has 45 frames of lag, otherwise it has 28 frames of lag. Unstale, it puts the opponent in 6 frames of hitstun... i don't think you can follow it up lol.
 

NFST4R

Smash Cadet
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Messages
47
Location
Gilbert, Arizona
NNID
NFEEMNOMM
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1263-6876-0095
Thank you so much for the input man. I really appreciate it.
So I just watched your first MM set [maybe not MM but bo5] and it's hard to say just because you're pretty significantly better than your friend here. You just kind of run him over and here's not a lot he can do about it. For example, when you're in your 3rd match of that set, you JV4 stock him. That's kind of a difference.

So what I'm getting at here is that if you'd like a better representation of your problems, I'd prefer that you upload a different set, even one where you lose. We're not necessarily interested in looking good as much as getting better [though it is an incredibly seductive thing to upload stuff where you trash people]

So basically here's what I noticed
1) You mess up a lot of tech skill stuff. I'm basically having the same issue after coming back from a long time - "easy" things like uthrow knee or even attempting to lcancel an autocancelled bair because I'm dumb leading me to shield in place. These are things that I'm watching you make the mistakes of doing and obviously you're losing pressure on your opponent because of that. Tightening tech skill is something I've always struggled with so the only answers I can give you is practice it until it doesn't happen anymore. Maybe in friendlies just super focus on getting one thing right consistently or something

2) You have a lot of patterns that aren't being captalized on due to you being better than your friend. For example, you have a tendency to DJknee off the ledge, even if that dude was so far there was no way you could hit them. Watching it again, you do vary your ledgehop habits but even so there's a clear pattern there.

3) Remember all of your options when you are up against someone who is on the ground. I don't think you consider shield grabbing a get up attack an option, where both of those would have netted you a grab and possibly a kill.

TL;DR
Video isn't the best representation of what you need to work on because your opponent isn't on the same level. You have certain patterns that are fatal in any sort of match up but particular falcon dittos, and remember all of your options. Also tech skill needs to improve so you're not missing guaranteed things
wou
 

net1234

Smash Ace
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
738
Location
SLC Utah
if your aerial falcon kick hits the ground it has 45 frames of lag, otherwise it has 28 frames of lag. Unstale, it puts the opponent in 6 frames of hitstun... i don't think you can follow it up lol.
*sigh* gotta go play that abomination of a game pm so i can edgecancel it
 

LowKey

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Newark, DE
Hey so I just got back from a tournament that happened this past weekend and I'm looking for some feedback for some friendlies that I played. My Matches are from 4:16:30 to 4:31:40. http://www.twitch.tv/udvgtc/b/568239132 Sorry for the whole format, much help is a appreciated :)
 
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bertbusdriver

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Norcal
Hey so I just got back from a tournament that happened this past weekend and I'm looking for some feedback for some friendlies that I played. My Matches are from 4:16:30 to 4:31:40. http://www.twitch.tv/udvgtc/b/568239132 Sorry for the whole format, much help is a appreciated :)
VS MARTH

unfortunately this marth is pretty bad at the matchup/worse than you so your flaws are less readily apparent and a lot of stuff was you trying to experiment probably.

uthrow usmash isn't a good followup usually. i guess it's pretty likely you were trying to go for uthrow-uair, which is actually great against marth at a bunch of percents. learn your uthrow-knee percents. i think you had 1 or 2 where you went for uair instead when knee would have killed or led to edgeguard situation...

your ledgegame could be better. invincible ledgedashing vs ledgehop nair or tournament winner..

WD OOS more to reposition instead of always jumping OOS and going for nair or something.

retain ledge invincibility more on the marth edgeguard to force him to recover onstage for the easy reverse ledge hop knee. reverse ledge hop (backflip) regrab nicely avoids marth's upB a lot of the time.

you could probably DD better. and better stage control (retaining control of center stage and threatening your opponent based on the fact that their back is to the ledge)

i think you had a couple of situations where uthrow uair uair was possible but you only did 1 uair

VS FALCO
idk he just got hit by your stuff and didn't punish you much at all. low percent grounded stomp that keeps him standing is a free grab followup. more techchasing?


try to get recordings vs someone better. This is important.
 
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LowKey

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Newark, DE
VS MARTH

unfortunately this marth is pretty bad at the matchup/worse than you so your flaws are less readily apparent and a lot of stuff was you trying to experiment probably.

uthrow usmash isn't a good followup usually. i guess it's pretty likely you were trying to go for uthrow-uair, which is actually great against marth at a bunch of percents. learn your uthrow-knee percents. i think you had 1 or 2 where you went for uair instead when knee would have killed or led to edgeguard situation...

your ledgegame could be better. invincible ledgedashing vs ledgehop nair or tournament winner..

WD OOS more to reposition instead of always jumping OOS and going for nair or something.

retain ledge invincibility more on the marth edgeguard to force him to recover onstage for the easy reverse ledge hop knee. reverse ledge hop (backflip) regrab nicely avoids marth's upB a lot of the time.

you could probably DD better. and better stage control (retaining control of center stage and threatening your opponent based on the fact that their back is to the ledge)

i think you had a couple of situations where uthrow uair uair was possible but you only did 1 uair

VS FALCO
idk he just got hit by your stuff and didn't punish you much at all. low percent grounded stomp that keeps him standing is a free grab followup. more techchasing?


try to get recordings vs someone better. This is important.
Yeah, sorry about that, these were the only matches I had on stream. I'll see if I can get some better vids in the next tourny. Thanks for the help though, I going to be jamming out some tech then :)
 

bertbusdriver

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Messages
883
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Norcal
Yeah, sorry about that, these were the only matches I had on stream. I'll see if I can get some better vids in the next tourny. Thanks for the help though, I going to be jamming out some tech then :)
Maybe try MMing someone who goes back and forth with you in matches. If there's downtime with the stream, they're almost always receptive to showing some MMs instead of friendlies.
 

bertbusdriver

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Norcal
too much raptor boost. you got a way with a bunch of unsafe ones. any decent sheik will punish you super hard for it. It's fine if it's a techchase situation and you'll cover a bunch of options, but close to never good in neutral.

at some point you did stomp at 0% and then went for raptor boost. grab there instead imo.

WD OOS more. I swear it's good

I think you could work on your platform followups. You could have converted a lot more with better uair timing, waveland grab, or going above and following the tech with stomp->knee. Also, SH knee or stomp can hit from underneath the platform on YS and battlefield (It's a lot harder on BF, but still a great option sometimes) Which option is good depends on the situation and opponent. Once they've revealed they're smart enough to hold down when you uair them on platform, you need to mixup a bit more.

some nice pivot grabs :D

You could afford to play a little lamer in neutral against sheik. Hasty approaches led to getting hit a lot. Focus a little more on gaining stage control and forcing sheik to overcommit or mis-space by cutting off options safely.

time your ledge invincibility refresh a little better it did/almost cost you a couple times haha
 

Rhyme_

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
Yeah, i definitely need to work on my wavedash out of shield more, that's one of the things i'm bad at. I know raptor boost is bad in neutral but it was working so i just went with, still probably wasn't a good idea. The platform follow ups where mostly me being nervous, when I'm playing well i get the short hop knee through platforms a lot. Yeah, my neutral is really bad i know i need to work on that, i just don't have much patience and I kind just want to go knee things lol. Thanks a lot Bert.
 

bleepbleep

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
15
I just don't know the jigglypuff matchup at all and couldn't really find anything searching google for it. how do i approach jigglypuff without getting hit by the wall?
 

bertbusdriver

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Norcal
I just don't know the jigglypuff matchup at all and couldn't really find anything searching google for it. how do i approach jigglypuff without getting hit by the wall?
You roll too much and go for way too many unsafe stomps OOS. You can WD OOS instead to reposition safely against puff. WD OOS -> dash is so much faster than roll and you have a lot more control over where you'll be over the course of the next 60 frames.

You'll notice puffs (this one included) often go for a pattern of FH aerial -> aerial which can be followed by doublejump aerials or landing or simply doublejumping away. This includes FH bair on shield -> bair above shield to cover jumping OOS or FH bair on shield -> DJ aerial to followup once they roll after the first shield hit, which completely destroys players who don't WD OOS.

I disagree with the commentators on DL64 being a bad choice against puff as falcon. So much room to DD and platform camp and you have great killing potential regardless...

You run in and commit very predictably. Wait for openings in the puffs aerials, scoop with upair. Also keep mental note of how many jumps she has left. Has to come down eventually lol.

Remember you can threaten people in melee without actually committing unsafely. Put moves just outside your opponents range to punish, see if they bite. Try to make it so that if they do bite, you're in a position to punish. I feel like 90% of the time when you threw out a move, you were putting a hitbox literally where your opponent was rather than where they will be or where you can threaten them to force a better situation for yourself in terms of stage control or being able to punish their reaction.

her horizontal air mobility and hitboxes are incredible, but vertical not so much. Scoop her with upairs when she's above. Platform camp (top plat especially) and she can't challenge dair thru platform.

On puff's dthrow, DI away (direction she's facing) and then tech away. There's no followup for that unless you hit a platform or have to tech near ledge. Obviously DI in led to rest game 2 on FD haha. In general puff has a bit of a tough time following up her throws if you DI away and tech away...

Coming down with stomp like 100% of the time as falcon not good. You got flustered game 2, which is understandable.

You need to work on dashing a lot faster out of your aerials. A lot of potential followups lost because your falcon is standing or missed L cancel after aerial. Maybe tournament jitters, in any case gotta move faster if you ever wanna convert on your followups.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Could barely find anything because my P:M Falcon shows up more than anything, but here's a couple of goodies I found:

http://youtu.be/-BiouMbRFvU (Scotch vs LK, Winners Bracket, IaB XII, July 3rd, 2014)

http://youtu.be/tULmtdvC9C0 (Scotch vs Infinity, Losers Semis, Collected 2, June 8th, 2014)

http://youtu.be/YulvcldEkDA (Scotch vs JuMp, $3 Money Match, KoTH 2, April-May 2014?)

I've been playing Falcon as a primary since May 2013, and Marth as a secondary since December 2013.

I lose, a lot. Like, a LOT.
 

bleepbleep

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
15
Could barely find anything because my P:M Falcon shows up more than anything, but here's a couple of goodies I found:

I lose, a lot. Like, a LOT.

I don't really know the peach matchup THAT well, but i think i found a few things you were doing terribly wrong in the first match.
The one major thing i saw was how poorly spaced alot of your aerials were. You'd just throw out a move, overshoot it, and expect it to hit, you can do that against some characters but not peach. like 9 times out of 10 you got punished for doing that, i'm not sure about this but i saw hax spaced alot of nair's right outside of armada's range and punished him when he saw armada screw up or saw an opening when he fought him. That's all i have to say too tired to watch the rest.

Take a look at video titled. armada(peach) vs Hax(Falcon)1 (Sorry i can't link not enough posts).

I'm not sure if these are the right things to do, i'm sure if they aren't someone will come along and correct me
 
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