Official Captain Falcon Video Critique Thread

[Deleted member]

we were both playing pretty bad that set

whenever there is a crazy last match last hit set with me and lovage its never recorded

but..

SPOILER ALERT


we play again in losers finals lol

 

[0Room]

Hey S2J, what do you think about your match vs Fly?
Any thoughts/comments/concerns?

 

[Deleted member]

in winners i felt like i had the upper hand 4th match but kinda ****ed up

i don't think stadium was a good counterpick and I got sort of unlucky with a reverse grab d-smash 2nd stock that somehow took my jump. It's probably decent vs most Icies but Fly is fairly defensive and I think it helped him more than it helped me

so im never picking stadium AGAIN (vs icies) unless they SUCK DIK

i don't know the matchup for **** and so playing fly and any other icies is extremely uncomfortable

if i played 100 matches vs a decent icies I'd learn it but theres no one to play (besides fly). Hitting 2 shields at the same time makes the timing a little bit different and it gets me ***** a lot by icies tiny shield grab. my tech skill is really rusty with me spot dodging a lot when i want to wavedash out of shield. venue had too many brawl noises everywhere. my c-stick sometimes up-airs when i want a knee so I get grabbed for it and then get grab comboed to 150% or die oaweigphg2q9;2ija39ij92aigh924h9;

so for me at least, smaller stages are better vs icies. close combat > safer playstyle where I'm likely to make a dumb approach --> get grabbed --> die

my edgegaurding still sucks

i'm really bad at killing nana when she stands still

yep all my thoughts

 

[Wenbobular]

Nana has a mind of her own
CPU mindgames are too legit

 

[0Room]

S2J I find that amusing that you don't wanna pick PS because in the stage discussion thread we said it was a bad idea
Oh well lol

Cool insight, I appreciate it

 

[crush]

if i played 100 matches vs a decent icies I'd learn it but theres no one to play (besides fly). Hitting 2 shields at the same time makes the timing a little bit different and it gets me ***** a lot by icies tiny shield grab. my tech skill is really rusty with me spot dodging a lot when i want to wavedash out of shield. venue had too many brawl noises everywhere. my c-stick sometimes up-airs when i want a knee so I get grabbed for it and then get grab comboed to 150% or die oaweigphg2q9;2ija39ij92aigh924h9;

jo hns

 

[arbustos]

sadfsdafsadf

 

[crush]

sadfsdafsadf

Hey no spamming this is earth.

 

[0Room]

After watching your sets vs Fly, S2J
I have to say two main things about it:

Patience is needed a little more in this MU than most MUs. I don't know about Fly since he's far and away from most other IC players, but maybe especially for that reason, if you just rush them down you're just gonna get grabbed a lot. It's kind of a wheel imo, it's rush in, get out, keep them on their toes. Knee is pretty much always safe on shield, though we all know that nothing is ever 100% safe.

But I say this because you would rush for the first two stocks [this is especially evident in the first match of the first set] and then slow down the last two and you ended up winning that match. So I mean, there's a reason why Cf is a semihard counter against ICs, you've just gotta abuse that.

The other thing I wanted to say is that grabs are not not not not not good until there's only one of them. Grabbing them is usually just an easy access to getting grabbed, and that of course means a stock. Of course once it's SoPo go for it.

Other than that, move a bit more, you kind of stayed vertical but not really horizontal
As in, it was easier for him to just keep you somewhere [as in here] so obviously there was some of the stage interaction here but both of us know that as Falcon standing still is bad

That's pretty much all I wanted to point out, hope that helps you at all even though you didn't really ask for any critique.

 

[Deleted member]

don't think grabs are bad at all

especially up-throw which I 100% forgot about since your invincible during its animation

 

[0Room]

You're invincible for like
some amount of frames

During all throws
I dunno I just think that being within their grab range is generally bad
And only being able to get a handle on one of them just leaves the other one with free reign to **** you

I mean you pulled it off fine in that set I just worry that it'll come back and bite you
Make sense?

 

[Tekk]

Upthrow is decent I think, usually hits the other IC if he's trying to get to you, and leads to an upair tempest.

You can condition them to shielding with some knees, then go for an empty sh towards them to grab.
It's a mixup tool like another.

 

[0Room]

I suppose
I dunno I've just been conditioned to believe that grabs are bad

And I suppose I should reevaluate that since I've gotten a lot better since then
Congrats on getting in MBR, Tekk

 

[Deleted member]

You're invincible for like
some amount of frames

During all throws
I dunno I just think that being within their grab range is generally bad
And only being able to get a handle on one of them just leaves the other one with free reign to **** you

I mean you pulled it off fine in that set I just worry that it'll come back and bite you
Make sense?

don't see it biting me in the future

grabbing popo --> nana probably will poke u at worst

grabbing nana --> d-throw/ up-throw will probably hit popo

@ in grand finals set 2 i grabbed nana and then popo ***** me so never mind but i think its a good idea out of invincibility

==

also, i don't think you need that much patience vs icys, just need decent solid shield pressure that won't put you in danger. my level of play that day wasn't my best and my tech skill was off, but if you watch mango face fly he just spaces knees/stomps correctly which eventually leads to icys ****

==

ALSO, even if i dont agree wholly, i take all advice and consider it, so thx for the advice

==

whats the best way to edgeguard icys up-b with 2 icys? I think im gunna just sit on the lower level and f-smash or d-smash nana when she lands while popo flys the **** into the sky

 

[Roneblaster]

U have to hit them when they land, theyre invincible and human ****in missles during the rising part of the upB

 

[0Room]

Yeah don't worry about it
If that works for you go for it

I just try to mention things that I feel will help, like patience.
Though I understand that some people just don't play like that.

As far as edgeguarding their upB nana is completely invincible through the thing, so it's best just to get out of the way

 

[Deleted member]

icys= bull **** char

 

[arbustos]

yeah but popo is completely vulnerable and rises way above nana, so you get a free hit on either one

popo, who is rocketing away, or nana, who has landed and can be hit again


unless they catch the ledge, their up b isn't very good

 

[FabulousGeorge]

I have a few recorded matches for you guys.
Let me begin by saying we are both very new to the game and quite bad so I understand if you find it too depressing to watch.

We know that the tech skill is lacking, but that will come with time I'm sure. We are more looking for advice on movement and flow I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kli7BnpRls

Thank you for all advise, constructive or not

 

[Huntzie]

Ignore the first match, the b moves were just jokes.

Advice*

 

[0Room]

Okay I don't have a lot of time right now and I will definitely come back to this but three things
1) your avatars are boss
2) After watching about 6 seconds I've noticed that [as you said] your tech skill needs improvement [mostly L canceling]
and that 3) your DD is bad
I don't mean that in the way that it's not performed correctly but in the idea that you're not using it for it's intended purpose. I was actually just talking about this yesterday to a new player as well so it's still fresh in my mind

Basically your DD is used for mindgames
Pulling in, baiting an attack, moving out to make them whiff, and then moving back in for the punish
You did a DD in place pretty much, and Tim just kinda...hit you out of it. You never moved your DD wider, or attempted to get out of the way, you just got hit by it.
So remember to use the DD to move out of the way of that ftilt/dair/fsmash/whatever and then come back in
When you get that you'll make giant leaps.

I'll come back to this later but right now I'm hungry D:<

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay well after watching a few matches
I have to say this for both of you:
You do have a lot to work on, but you're doing fairly well at this point.
You should probably focus on two to three things at a time, but overall you'll get some general improvement across the board.

So for both of you, improvement is needed in these areas:
Movement, neither of you really moved in a way that was necessary imo. It was a lot of really stiff movement, and a lot of movement through attacks. So focus on wavedashing/platform dashing/dding/etc
L canceling, self explanatory
Off stage stuff

George in particular:
Work on that DD stuff I was talking about
Getting more grabs is good
Chasing dairs with knees, that upB was...no. Just no.
Consistent wavedashing/platform dashing
Punishing dash attack on shield with dair or shield grab every time he does it

I liked your offstage stuff and your platform game, you showed a lot of eagerness in going off stage which was great, you just need to tighten that up a bit. Remember Falco doesn't have an upB hitbox.
Your platform stuff was really cool, I especially liked the uthrow->drop->uair
You do need to work on tech skill as far as I could tell you dropped through the platform to DJ back up but couldn't get it

Tim:
You need to do more sidebs. upb recovery = death
Not killing yourself. obviously.
Movement, keeping things moving, you kind of stood there then fsmashed his shield a lot.
You need to mix up your platform stuff more, start DIing away from throws [down and away at 9 degrees below the horizontal is the best DI] and stuff like that
Flaunt your utilt and it's amazingness
Don't dash attack shields
Grab more, you let George get really comfortable in shield and that's just not good

You did a lot of things well but you're playing a character with a high learning curve. You need to start being able to shine his shield and get away, either by wavedashing back or nair/dair/grab. Keep that pressure going

Other than that
Cool stuff
Keep it up
Hope I helped

 

[BigD!!!]

grabbing when you come back from death and youre invincible is awesome vs icies

its ok at other times, but only if you surprise them or have separated them. if you just run up and grab, even with the uthrow having a hitbox popo can just shieldgrab

but icies generally just shield a lot when youre invincible because theyre not accustomed to worrying about being grabbed so you can just run up and dthrow knee, or dthrow popo then just knee nana, or anything

basically, grabbing icies when youre invincible works a lot and is really good, dthrow knee doesnt always work so uthrow more often for uairs just to get them off the stage

 

[FabulousGeorge]

Thanks 0Room!

The up-b was a panic thing and wasn't meant for so shouldn't happen again. I'm annoyed at the couple of times that I jumped off for the knee, but fell slightly short; I know his up-b has no hitbox to begin with so there is no reason for me to be holding back. I'm also annoyed at how I didn't get one tech from his d-smash edgeguarding. I'm normally a bit better with them.
Also when I seem to do pointless airdodges I am probably trying to up air. I think I'm so keen on l-cancelling that move i do it before I press up on the c-stick lol I'm an idiot.

I'm finding it really hard to use wavedashes in my game. I've thought of doing nothing but wavedashing for a few games, but I think that would just frustrate me.
I sort of second mario/doc and I wavedash like no-ones' business when playing them. I just don't know how to bring it into my falcon game.

I really appreciate the advise and I'll try to work on the movement.
Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean by platform dashing? I guess it's movement between platforms

 

[Walt]

I use wavedashes to stop dashes/running, after dthrow when waiting for them to hit the ground, back or forward off platforms for little tricks, wavedash off bair is pretty good, obviously WD OoS, somtimes wave gentlemen to look like a boss, and sometimes when your opponent is lying on the ground and you're waiting for them to roll, normal get up, or get up attack if you wavedash in place it makes them think you're moving and they do something. Usually get up attack or roll.

 

[0Room]

Walt pretty much covered it

Once you start using it, it becomes natural. Those are the main reasons to use it. Obviously, another reason is to space [WD back->fsmash is the hilariousness]
Platform dashing is wavedashing horizontally along platforms, and you can only go horizontally after a double jump
YS has a wonderful platform dash for falcon

You have to run off the side, jump IMMEDIATELY, and then WD straight horizontally into the stage right before you touch the platform
It'll take some getting used to but it's really great

Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOuxrMDUkEQ&feature=channel_video_title&t=02m00s

 

[Pr0jecT]

I got 3 vids recorded from this past weekend at ADVENT in Orlando FL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-jG2hWhSJY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0WcgCGGtmU

*i'll update this post when me vs colbol gets posted on youtube

 

[0Room]

---------------VG-----------
Well
Two things I noticed right off the bat:

1st) Your first stock first match you did wonderfully, but then he adjusted to your style and you didn't adjust back. He just attacked your shield, waiting for you to jump OoS [which you did every time btw] Also, you ALWAYS went back to the ledge and he just ftilted you for it. You've gotta adjust to win.

2nd) apparently this is a new theme that I've been missing, but this whole DJ/Staying vertical thing just seems really bad to me. He literally just attacked you when you jumped, baiting your jump and then hitting you off stage when you DJ'd. Sometimes it worked out really well, but as in hand with the first part, it got you *****. When you got a hit, you did well with it, but your DI was weird in certain places [could tell you were doing anti-combo DI when hit with a strong hit, but not necessarily when you were getting combo'd]

Your second match was much better as far as changing up your style, you DD'd a lot more and eventually took COMPLETE control of the match [2nd, 3rd of VG's stocks] which was great Though at the beginning he kind of ran train on you
But I really liked how you changed things up, going from whiffing the uthrow->knee to uthrow->uair->knee was really creative and good thinking!

-----------Zoro-------
So I'm torn between saying you've clearly played a Link before
and wondering if you've ever played the MU before

Because you avoided a lot of really complex things
But ran straight into the really obvious stuff. And how you get your opponents to always let you stage strike to FD is beyond me

Regardless
Why didn't you stomp here?

Also
I want you to watch this life
and count how many times you misspaced/threw out moves even though you weren't close to him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0WcgCGGtmU&t=02m08s

Don't throw out moves
You got punished. Real hard. REAL HARD. Don't do it.

Also
I hope you learned from this set never to stomp another link's shield again
And that you should just wait on the upB when hanging on the ledge
As far as this match goes I really don't have anything in particular to say, he literally just outplayed and mindgamed you. So...whatevs lol

Get him next time

 

[crush]

ill have some videos of my falcon actually trying in a week or so

 

[Pr0jecT]

I've played Zoro only once before in tournament and it was with my Falco, again; that time though it was last stock 3rd match- incredibly close. I played the link MU as if he were Ganon, intuition mostly; I really don't know too many of links trixy's

Thanks for the input, I felt like I was watching myself run into the DUMBEST things; things that I wouldn't normally get wrecked by in a friendly. things like recovering from up high and trying to slow fall knee. Silly stuff.

But thats tournament for you, get a little panicky and start doing things you normally wouldn't do because of the pressure. Its all good though, only makes room for improvement.

 

[0Room]

Thanks for the input, I felt like I was watching myself run into the DUMBEST things; things that I wouldn't normally get wrecked by in a friendly. things like recovering from up high and trying to slow fall knee. Silly stuff.

But thats tournament for you.

Agreed.
Anything you learned doesn't count if you don't apply it in tourney imo

I mean like I said I think your horizontal movement needs to be worked on some, though that can be difficult when it comes to people with projectiles [like both of these MUs were]
I think the other thing you need to work on particularly is not getting grabbed

There were a lot of times, especially in the VG set, where they were clearly looking for a grab
So make sure to pick up on that and then wreck them for it
If you need me to point out the exact moment I can

Also
Are you going to Apex? I wanna play you :D

 

[BigD!!!]

alright project im on **** internet so ive only seen a chunk of the first match on fd vs doc

but you seem to be doing a lot of vertical spacing stuff, as oroom talked about

i'm a big fan of that in general, but its mostly useful against fast characters that can dd grab you or jump over your nair to get you or something, it forces them to be ready to adjust for many different timings and spacings

dr mario is not one of these characters, stay to the side of him and nair a lot instead and he wont be able to do anything for the most part. he can throw pills, but you can break them with nair, run under them even when they bounce if its high enough, etc.

by going up in the air, you allow him to mess around with uairing you from below, which is basically the best thing he has going for him

dj's are ok, just do them far enough away to where he cant get under you, he should at best be able to run into a move if he runs at you full speed. this is where dj'ing works, people like to punish missed aerials with grabs but you mixup the timing of it by fastfalling/not fastfalling, wavelands, retreating slightly/moving forward slightly, and you get them to run full speed with a grab into a knee. if they have time to actually get under you, youre better off staying low.

like i said, this is based on like half of the fd match, things change on platform levels and i dont know if you fixed this later in the set, but its good food for thought for anybody

 

[0Room]

i'm a big fan of that in general, but its mostly useful against fast characters that can dd grab you or jump over your nair to get you or something, it forces them to be ready to adjust for many different timings and spacings

Okay so THAT'S why it's used
Thanks BigD no one ever told me these things xD

 

[BigD!!!]

yeah think about it this way like

if you just dd and nair defensively, fox can get to you with a good call, his full jump nair can punish your sh nair

but if youre fulljumping/double jumping, the best he can do is get right below you in the air if youre far enough away, and generally in the lag of a move if he tried to hit you

so then they start trying to dd grab you when you come down, but thats an instinctual timing and it ****s them up if you just mixup the fastfall, i posted that set of me vs pumm in here a while ago and wenbob made fun of me for dj kneeing the whole time, but if you watch the set i dont think i got punished once for it, and he ran straight into a lot of dj slowfalled knees trying to grab

i agree i probably did it too much in that set, but its a good way to keep them thinking and, if youre far enough away, its not really punishable unless they call it, and anything is punishable if predicted

 

[0Room]

Yeah that makes sense and I've started doing that myself naturally
As far as combating full hops with fullhops and stuff

I just didn't understand why people did it so much
So thanks for clearing that up

 

[BigD!!!]

also, stomp docs sweetspotting up b, nothing else will hit from the stage i dont think

 

[Pr0jecT]

Yeah I'm going to Apex this year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjDLSHQ2wI&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYKAEe7kltU&feature=channel_video_title

Here are another 2 sets I played in Bracket against Colbol and Toobz, both solid Fox's from Orlando. (Toobz is plups brother)

IMO the set against Toobz is just everything frustrating that can happen will happen.

So many times should I have hit a knee or a stomp only to be SLIGHTLY off and have it not connect at all or connect with the weak hit.

Other then that I felt like I was just outplayed

 

[BigD!!!]

i dunno if this still works, but i watched a video of colbol once and noticed he teched towards the ledge every time, then almost beat him in a tournament by taking advantage of that

this was over 2 years ago though, he probably smartened up a little

 

[_Rocky_]

yo project your dash dances arent very intimidating

work on that

edit: you did have some nice reads tho

 

[0Room]

Dude I wrote this whole thing about those matches
Where the **** did it go?!

 

[BigD!!!]

i just went all falcon in a tournament for the first time since like june '10

i think i played pretty well and will be happy with videos coming out, but it was an overnight tourney so i might have just been sleep deprived, my last match where i just run out of juice was at like 7:15 am

anyway, i'm just saying i went all falcon and ground it out against spaceys and stuff for the first time in like a year and was pretty happy with the results and really enjoyed playing falcon in tough matches

i will probably be producing more falcon material in the near future as a result of that