Captain Falcon remains bottom... (Falcon potential discussion thread 2)

[Zeallyx]

I feel you, I guess that wont change until Falcon makes more appearances in Tournaments and such, and actually used to his fullest potential...Imo, You gotta have some balls and a very advanced mind game to use him. People say hes "predictable", so I use that to my advantage, so i juke them

yeah man, I agree we haven't seen falcon in his full brawl glory yet. And people underestimating us will only help us on our way

 

[SSBbo]

I dont see how its humiliation, I love It that playing bottom tier I can own other people with such a low ranked character.

I totally agree, that's why i main random and second low-tier in general.

WHOA!!!

i think it just struck me that Captain Falcon is bottom tier.... WTF?!
He's fast, strong, incredibly manly, he killed the f*** outta black shadow, and... and...
FALCON... PAAAWWWNCH!!

he has decent aerial game (to include a spike), great specials (see above), WTF?!

OKAY.
I regrouped...
What's bad about him?
Gimped fairly easily, falcon punch is too slow to use often, can't nipple-spike anymore, and "Yes!" isn't as good as it was in melee IMO (though many disagree with me).

he should AT LEAST be mid-tier.

*edit* i forgot... best taunts in the game make for excellent mindgames (like when the guy's all "I'LL SHOW MY MOVES YOU PANTYWAIST!!").

 

[Zeallyx]

I totally agree, that's why i main random and second low-tier in general.

WHOA!!!

i think it just struck me that Captain Falcon is bottom tier.... WTF?!
He's fast, strong, incredibly manly, he killed the f*** outta black shadow, and... and...
FALCON... PAAAWWWNCH!!

he has decent aerial game (to include a spike), great specials (see above), WTF?!

OKAY.
I regrouped...
What's bad about him?
Gimped fairly easily, falcon punch is too slow to use often, can't nipple-spike anymore, and "Yes!" isn't as good as it was in melee IMO (though many disagree with me).

he should AT LEAST be mid-tier.

Sorry, but no.
Unfortunatly, he will probably never riseout of bottom of bottom, and if he rises, he'll be second worst at best.

 

[SSBbo]

I know he won't ever rise out of the bottom, i just like him more than most characters (other than Ike), and don't think he should've been put in the bottom in the first place.

I think why people don't like him is all the n00bs that use him (just a thought).

 

[Zeallyx]

I know he won't ever rise out of the bottom, i just like him more than most characters (other than Ike), and don't think he should've been put in the bottom in the first place.

I think why people don't like him is all the n00bs that use him (just a thought).

So you say he'll never rise out of bottom of bottom, but you say he shouldn't have been put there? what..?

 

[RMMF]

Noobs dont use Falcon, they'd give up the first couple of rounds playing him. Thats why he's not ranked very well (im not talking about the tier list). No one sticks with him, they may try a couple of times, but they give up.

 

[SSBbo]

Noobs dont use Falcon, they'd give up the first couple of rounds playing him. Thats why he's not ranked very well (im not talking about the tier list). No one sticks with him, they may try a couple of times, but they give up.

most of the people i hang out with (the untalented ones, that is) use Captain Falcon. They disgrace him, but they use him almost exclusively. After a while it's gets me kinda annoyed, so i use Falcon, and **** them in a mirror match.

 

[SSBbo]

So you say he'll never rise out of bottom of bottom, but you say he shouldn't have been put there? what..?

alot of backroomers are stubborn, and if they put him in the bottom, they're gonna leave him there until some maricle happens.

 

[RMMF]

most of the people i hang out with (the untalented ones, that is) use Captain Falcon. They disgrace him, but they use him almost exclusively. After a while it's gets me kinda annoyed, so i use Falcon, and **** them in a mirror match.

Misunderstood you, well of course your friends play Falcon, hes manly! But I was speaking from a tournament stand point.

 

[RMMF]

alot of backroomers are stubborn, and if they put him in the bottom, they're gonna leave him there until some maricle happens.

Everyone apart of the Captain Falcon discussion is taking part of the miracle

 

[SSBbo]

Misunderstood you, well of course your friends play Falcon, hes manly! But I was speaking from a tournament stand point.

my apologies.
due to my location and inability to travel, i can't do tourneys

 

[Zeallyx]

alot of backroomers are stubborn, and if they put him in the bottom, they're gonna leave him there until some maricle happens.

The people in the backroom know their facts. They are right.
It's not 'once bottom always bottom' it's 'now he's bottom, he's still bottom'.

 

[SSBbo]

The people in the backroom know their facts. They are right.
It's not 'once bottom always bottom' it's 'now he's bottom, he's still bottom'.

I'm not saying they don't know their facts, I'm saying they're biased to not like falcon.

 

[Zeallyx]

I'm not saying they don't know their facts, I'm saying they're biased to not like falcon.

>_> thats even more rediculous

 

[SSBbo]

>_> thats even more rediculous

of course it is... people in positions of importance, are NEVER biased to ANYTHING EVER...

 

[Zeallyx]

of course it is... people in positions of importance, are NEVER biased to ANYTHING EVER...

you don't have to act like that.
So I assume you know the people in the backroom and are 100% certain about what you said?

 

[Face124]

of course it is... people in positions of importance, are NEVER biased to ANYTHING EVER...

I don't think he said that, but there isn't one person in the backroom, in fact, if I remember correctly, there are several. Sarcasm is rarely a good argument.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

@above argument

Bottom line, what is SBR's position on Falcon? WHY do you think that they believe Falcon should remain bottom?

 

[Sukai]

Its a real shame.
Falcon was one of the most respected and feared smash characters in 64 and melee, The decreased hitstun (which is the reason behind Falcon's bad comparison to other characters) is proof enough that Sakurai hates us, and F-Zero is his least favorite Nintendo game.
Falcon isn't a bad character, but the hitstun changes ***** his battle style, another issue lies in the fact that he's the least edited character form Melee, the only change is his reverse Falcon Punch (which is awesome!).
What you Falcon mainers should look into is (suggesting, not telling) making decent use of his tilts. Falcon won't advance anything beyond E tier (in my insight), but he sure as hell doesn't deserve lowest of the low. With characters like Falcon and a game like Brawl, mind games are the way to go. As manly as he is, a defensive stance is needed, psyche your opponent out. And remember, a Falcon punch has almost as much frames as Ike's forward smash, and just as strong (which is a really bad thing in Falcon's case).

I'd be happy to contribute to digging into Falcon's potential. He's a for fun character for me, but I respect him just as much as you all do, assuming you respect him to an admirable extent.

 

[Player-3]

Thats true.. he was definently feared... even without his koj he was feared in 64...

sakurai hates flacon, but why...
it must be the nipples.......

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Its a real shame.
Falcon was one of the most respected and feared smash characters in 64 and melee, The decreased hitstun (which is the reason behind Falcon's bad comparison to other characters) is proof enough that Sakurai hates us, and F-Zero is his least favorite Nintendo game.
Falcon isn't a bad character, but the hitstun changes ***** his battle style, another issue lies in the fact that he's the least edited character form Melee, the only change is his reverse Falcon Punch (which is awesome!).
What you Falcon mainers should look into is (suggesting, not telling) making decent use of his tilts. Falcon won't advance anything beyond E tier (in my insight), but he sure as hell doesn't deserve lowest of the low. With characters like Falcon and a game like Brawl, mind games are the way to go. As manly as he is, a defensive stance is needed, psyche your opponent out. And remember, a Falcon punch has almost as much frames as Ike's forward smash, and just as strong (which is a really bad thing in Falcon's case).

I'd be happy to contribute to digging into Falcon's potential. He's a for fun character for me, but I respect him just as much as you all do, assuming you respect him to an admirable extent.

There are only a FEW poeple here that respect Falcon as a character (I might even be alone on that one) And you seem to misunderstand CF's Melee to Brawl edit. Here is a list;
Reverse Falcon Punch added
Falcon Punch is sped up
Raptor boost creates a hopping effect to return to the stage after a spike
Falcon can now grab the edge after performing a RB
Falcon kick is increased in ovrall power
Falcon Dive has longer grab range
Falcon Dive now travels farther
Knee does higher damage (when you actually land it )
No knockback on 3rd jab hit making it useful for damaging
More epic "Show me your moves" animation

Yes, I left out a few changes and a few nerfs but CF really is quite different from 7 years ago.

 

[Darxmarth23]

This tier list had disapointed my in so many ways.

Its just who has a chance to beat mk at a tourney...

If meta gets banned we have a chance at some wins.

 

[Sukai]

At SmashBrother: You're right. I did leave those out. I was kinda talking moveset-wise though.

At Darxmarth: We can approach this two ways. The more appealing way is banning MK, which can both change the tier placings by a wide margin, and Keep MK in his own God Tier, all alone...
The second way is the challenging way, that is finding a way to keep him from running amok, finding a weakness, and making the best of it, cuz if he gets banned, WE'RE LETTING THE GAME WIN, AND WE JUST CAN'T DO THAT!!!

I'm relatively cool with either outcome, but action must be taken, before the next tier list comes around.

 

[SSBbo]

I think that my problem with captain falcon, is that sometimes he moves fast, but like a robot. A good example would be fox: jumps fast, falls fast; runs fast, stops fast.
i think it feels weird.

I think what most people are saying on this thread is simply: "why is he so low? how can we make him better?"

I don't know the answer, that's why I'm here. IMO he's not as good as he was in melee (I feel that even after smashbrother's list of improvements), which makes it seem that he's bad. He's not, but he is compared to himself.

 

[Marshie]

At SmashBrother: You're right. I did leave those out. I was kinda talking moveset-wise though.

At Darxmarth: We can approach this two ways. The more appealing way is banning MK, which can both change the tier placings by a wide margin, and Keep MK in his own God Tier, all alone...
The second way is the challenging way, that is finding a way to keep him from running amok, finding a weakness, and making the best of it, cuz if he gets banned, WE'RE LETTING THE GAME WIN, AND WE JUST CAN'T DO THAT!!!

I'm relatively cool with either outcome, but action must be taken, before the next tier list comes around.

As hard as tthe second way would be, I think as a group we can pull it off,Im not saying we will (MK is a real pain in the ***), but with a character as manly as Cap (and fingers bloodied from exessive amounts of brawl), anything is possible.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Don't forget I left out the nerfs, SSBbo. I just said that becuase everyone seems to ignore his buffs and complain about the nerfs. But your right, he feels different, in a bad way....

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Ehh, falcon can work his way up. We just gotta flesh out his options and take advantage of everything at our disposal. Falcon won't be bottom next list *shakes fist*

 

[Lareit]

Ehh, falcon can work his way up. We just gotta flesh out his options and take advantage of everything at our disposal. Falcon won't be bottom next list *shakes fist*

I kinda like falcon being absolute bottom.

I can't be the only one?

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I kinda like falcon being absolute bottom.

I can't be the only one?

Ehh. At least we get advertisement, and we can't really get worse.

We can't... right?

*somebody finds out they can tech his dthrow like sonic*
Oh Shi-

 

[Sukai]

Yeah, I learned that Falcon clone matches are epic as hell.
But besides the point, I found myself kicking alot of *** versus a pro friend of mine with Falcon.
And my opponent was Pit.
I got owned on the first stock, and half way through the second, but thats when....
I don't exactly know what went down, but I made an epic *** comeback, to the point that the match was really close, although I still lost.
My respect for Falcon has increased 3 fold.
I may promote him to secondary if more good things come along.
Showed his *** my moves.
Gonna show some more people too.

 

[Tenki]

Falcon isn't an absolute cripple just because he's on the bottom of the tier list.

>_>

people can't seem to get past the fact that top of the tierlist != unbeatable and bottom of the tier list != punching bag.

 

[Noodlehead]

Ehh. At least we get advertisement, and we can't really get worse.

We can't... right?

*somebody finds out they can tech his dthrow like sonic*
Oh Shi-

i think i know a secret that could make falcon even worse.

 

[Player-3]

i think i know a secret that could make falcon even worse.

say it.
i want to know

 

[Noodlehead]

say it.
i want to know

someone would let the secret slip out. i know someone would. then falcon and another character would have another weakness. it only benefits you against one character. but it gives other characters another advantage against falcon and the other character. so i wont be telling anyone

 

[Zeallyx]

someone would let the secret slip out. i know someone would. then falcon and another character would have another weakness. it only benefits you against one character. but it gives other characters another advantage against falcon and the other character. so i wont be telling anyone

tell me one thing though..is the 'other character' ganondorf?

edit: also, why did you start about this in the first place

 

[Darxmarth23]

At SmashBrother: You're right. I did leave those out. I was kinda talking moveset-wise though.

At Darxmarth: We can approach this two ways. The more appealing way is banning MK, which can both change the tier placings by a wide margin, and Keep MK in his own God Tier, all alone...
The second way is the challenging way, that is finding a way to keep him from running amok, finding a weakness, and making the best of it, cuz if he gets banned, WE'RE LETTING THE GAME WIN, AND WE JUST CAN'T DO THAT!!!

I'm relatively cool with either outcome, but action must be taken, before the next tier list comes around.

MK will not get banned. Not unless the MK boards explore him more and find something that makes him more broken. You are right. There are only two options. But the most favorable one is not coming out any time soon. The second action is difficult. Exploiting MK is something that all characters except MK obviously are doing. We got, as memory serves, a 1.67 out of 15.00. A difference of about 13.33 is incredibly hard. And by June, I just don't see that happening.

On saturday or sunday i will post my essay of my interpretation of the tierlist and captain falcons placement.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

someone would let the secret slip out. i know someone would. then falcon and another character would have another weakness. it only benefits you against one character. but it gives other characters another advantage against falcon and the other character. so i wont be telling anyone

Don't let people make you feel obliged to tell. If it doesn't benefit the development of Brawl in any way don't even bring it up. Nobody needs to know.

 

[Adler]

Why is he bottom?

He is amazing.
He has superfast attacks, powerful attacks (FALCON PUUUUNCH!!),
As well as attacks which make you die laughing (Knee... of... JUSTICE!!!).
He certainly outclasses Sonic and Ganondorf.

I don't understand why he's bottom.

 

[Player-3]

Why is he bottom?

He is amazing.
He has superfast attacks, powerful attacks (FALCON PUUUUNCH!!),
As well as attacks which make you die laughing (Knee... of... JUSTICE!!!).
He certainly outclasses Sonic and Ganondorf.

I don't understand why he's bottom.

almost noone plays him in tournys so he has no results

maybe 3 or 4 of us have placed in the top 20... and those dont even count

 

[Darxmarth23]

The physics of brawl do not support falcon. They are too slow and his moves require at least SOME hit stun. He has fast speed in terms of running speed, aerial movement, and basic lag, but there is hardly any play style that will make him a total death threat to the other 36 characters besides maybe Ganondorf.